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Author Topic: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy  (Read 5385 times)

Joe Johnson

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2019, 06:01:26 AM »
Didn't you read the thread? It has been explained.  )peace(

I read the thread Davis. It has not been explained where it says the so called conditional promises were fulfilled. It also has not been explained how God promised them the land forever unconditionally in Genesis 17 and most of you still say the land was promised conditionally? See the scripture.

(Genesis 17:8 )
And I give to thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojourning, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be a God to them. [Darby's Translation]

So I am asking again where you get scripture that says that promise was conditional? Just provide the scripture and that will suffice.

Oneil

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2019, 07:59:28 AM »
It also has not been explained how God promised them the land forever unconditionally in Genesis 17 and most of you still say the land was promised conditionally?

That's inaccurate. Most here know Genesis 17 speaks of an unconditional promise because Galatians says it spoke of the seed as one person, which was Christ. So perhaps you are confused or getting things mixed up.

Dan

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2019, 02:31:10 PM »
I read the thread Davis. It has not been explained where it says the so called conditional promises were fulfilled. It also has not been explained how God promised them the land forever unconditionally in Genesis 17 and most of you still say the land was promised conditionally? See the scripture.

Right ON! Don't let them bully you Joe. You are correct in your thinking based on the literal interpretation of Scripture.

Ge 17:8
"And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

case closed!


David Knoles

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2019, 01:41:25 AM »
Those Amillennialists who don't take the bible literally just skip over passages that aren't yet fulfilled. The patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all died without receiving promises made to them regarding the land of Canaan. Which means they will receive it when Christ comes back to reign from Jerusalem.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2019, 02:23:50 AM »
Quote from: Davis
See the scripture.

(Genesis 17:8 )
And I give to thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojourning, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be a God to them. [Darby's Translation]

Quote from: David K
Those Amillennialists who don't take the bible literally just skip over passages that aren't yet fulfilled. The patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all died without receiving promises made to them regarding the land of Canaan. Which means they will receive it when Christ comes back to reign from Jerusalem.

The problem is that you did not reconcile Genesis 17 with the rest of Scripture.

Galatians 3:16
  • "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
The Covenant with Abram and his Seed, which was Christ, not to Abram's seeds, the physical people or nation of Israel. Now we get to the crux of the matter. The Everlasting Covenant with Israel was never with a nation, but with a people through the Seed, Christ. It was never with people of Jewish family heritage only, but to all those of the family of God through the Seed.

Galatians 3:28-29
  • "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
  • And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
The Everlasting (unconditional) covenants are in Christ ONLY fulfilled. And it won't be with national Israel or over a land in the Middle East!
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

David Knoles

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2019, 03:19:15 AM »
It says land, not heaven. How do you reconcile that?

Philly Dawg

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2019, 04:11:43 AM »
It says land, not heaven. How do you reconcile that?

The question is, what kind of land? Physical land or spiritual land. Physical kingdom or physical kingdom? It's not what it says that is in the debate, it's what the prophesy meant.
  Kellyanne Conway: Sometimes Trump Lies Because
 He Doesn't Know the Truth, Okay?

Red

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2019, 05:15:51 AM »
It says land, not heaven. How do you reconcile that?
David, the scriptures will reconcile the truth to us.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 11:8-13~"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
If we read these scriptures with true understanding, then we must confess, that the land in the middle east was a "pitiful" type of the true promises of God to the spiritual seed of Abraham through Christ.

Consider: Abraham and his natural seed DID inherit the land of promise, but Abraham knew that was not his TRUE PROMISE given to him freely by God's grace, for he, Sara, Isaac and Jacob all looked for a city which had foundations, whose builder and maker was God~they ALL died in faith having not received THOSE PROMISES OF GRACE, yet they all were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. The land of God's promises is the NEW EARTH and heavens, and by faith, Abraham understood this to be so.  Consider:
Quote from: THE LORD GOD
Genesis 13:14-17~"And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD."
As far as Abraham could see, and AS FAR as he could go as long as he lived, ALL THE LAND would be given to the SEED (Christ) of Abraham and the children thereof.......Abram removed his tent~which is telling us that the land where he lived WAS NOT the true land of promise, and the promises were not to his natural seeds, but to his SEED, which as one has already said.....is CHRIST and those chosen in him before the foundation of the earth...or from eternity past. Those of faith, are the true children of God~God's promises are BY GRACE, not because of blood that flows through man's sinful veins.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, contentment in its fullest, etc.

Granny

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2019, 08:48:15 AM »
 )GoodPopst(  )amen( all who understand this truth.

Tony Warren

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2019, 10:55:16 AM »
Quote from: Davis on Yesterday at 04:25:29 AM
>>>
Didn't you read the thread? It has been explained.  )peace(

I read the thread Davis.
<<<

Joe,
  But did you read it with an open mind and with an eye to understand what God was truly saying about promises of an eternal land? I would hope so as there was a lot of Biblical information, instruction and explanation in the thread. Clearly, God made two types of promises. The promises to "Abraham's seed" which were conditional ones that were of the law and physical temporal lands, and also promises to "Abraham and his Seed," which were unconditional ones and were of grace and Spiritual eternal lands. These were a portrait of the two Covenants, and under only one would Israel be able to dwell in their land eternally. The Spiritual one, which is of grace.

Galatians 4:24-26
  • "Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
  • For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
  • But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

The Old Covenant with Physical Israel gendereth or gave birth to bondage, but the New covenant with Spiritual Israel gives birth to New Life in Christ Jesus and the Spiritual land promised. The only promise that brings regeneration into an eternal inheritance for the children of Israel is the unconditional one. The conditional Promise/Covenant, which physical Israel brake, was never unconditional.

Nehemiah 9:7-7
  • "Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;
  • And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:"

The fact that they were not eternal and were conditioned on their obedience is proved by the fact that God threw them out of the land. Which would be a contradiction if God gave them the land eternally. That is to say if we're looking at this question rationally and according to Scripture. In fact, according to your own beliefs, until 1949 the country was inhabited by another nationality, didn't it? So then, "how were they physically given the land eternally if they were driven out?" Eternal means you'll always be there. But the truth is that only one land qualifies for eternal habitation and that is the Spiritual promised land. Or was God's arm too short to prevent Israel from being cast out that what you think was His promise be kept?  And how about Matthew and what Christ unambiguously declared to Israel. Did that seem in any way ambiguous to you?

Matthew 21:42-43
  • "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

In what world does this sound like the Lord is reiterating they have possession of the land eternally "if" the Kingdom (which you postulate is physical) was promised theirs forever?


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It has not been explained where it says the so called conditional promises were fulfilled.
<<<

Any promise that says if you are obedient you will prosper in the land, and if you are disobedient I will cast you out is by nature not unconditional. As has been stated before, the conditional promise was to Abraham's seed, meaning his posterity or children, the Israelites.

Genesis 12:7
  • "And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him."

Again note carefully, Abraham was not included in this promise because this was a promise of the physical land and was conditional, in stark contrast to the Genesis 17 Promise which was unconditional and to both Abraham and his seed Christ. True to God's promise in Genesis 12 He gave Abraham's children the land that he promised Abraham He would. All was fulfilled. By contrast, the promises to "Abraham and his Seed" was not conditional, and the fact is, Abraham never received the land that God promised his seed, because he died long before that time. That promise was not to Him, but to his posterity. You ask, where o I get this idea and where does it say this promise is fulfilled, and I give you the Scripture that is conclusive and unambiguous:

Genesis 15:18
  • "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:"

So again plainly, God made this promise of the Physical land to Abraham's seed, and not to Abraham. and that promise was fulfilled fully.

Now the second part of your question is where it says it was conditional. Well, God answers that too.

Deuteronomy 8:15-20
  • "Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;
  • Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;
  • And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
  • But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
  • And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
  • As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God."

There was nothing unconditional about the promise that God made to Abraham about giving his seed the physical land. God declares that they would be destroyed from it just as the other nations that were there before them if they were not obedient to Him. All this is representing the old covenant of law, while the Promises to Abraham and his seed represents the covenant of Grace because the Seed in view there is Christ. As has also already been shown by Scripture:

Galatians 3:15-16
  • "Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
  • Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

So though clearly Abraham didn't receive the promise God made "to his seed or posterity" of the physical land, Abraham would receive the eternal promised land through Christ Jesus.

And finally, you asked where is it stated that all those promises to Abraham concerning his seed/children in the land were fulfilled, and I submit to you God's word swearing that all was fulfilled concerning it.

Joshua 21:43-45
  • "And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers;and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
  • And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
  • There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass."

He gave them all He promised concerning the physical land and they dwelt in it. So we have to ask if God's word concerning all that He swore to give Abraham's children being fulfilled is good enough? That really is the relevant question. Moreover, God makes it clear that He was not giving them the land because they were inherently a good or special people, for God is no respecter of persons. They are only commended special by God's grace. And He declares He gave them the land because God was fulfilling the Promise made to Abraham about his seed possessing the land, which was a type. He did this as a representation that the Old Covenant would secure no one of Israel as His child eternally. The real promise of an eternal inheritance comes only in the New Covenant dispensation.

Deuteronomy 9:4-5
  • "Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
  • Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

Why did they receive the physical land "as Promised" Abraham's seed?  God tells us very plainly it was that He might perform or fulfill the oath or Promise that He made to Abraham concerning his seed receiving the land. So indeed again God declares all was fulfilled as Promised.


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It also has not been explained how God promised them the land forever unconditionally in Genesis 17 and most of you still say the land was promised conditionally?
<<<

No, God never promised Abraham's seed (children) the land eternally. God promised Abraham and His Seed (Christ) the land eternally.  The Land promised Israel in Genesis chapter 17 IS a unconditional promise of a eternal habitation. But look again more carefully. "THIS" Land was promised not to Abraham's seed or children, but to Abraham and His Seed, which means Christ (Galatians 3:16). The land Christ and Abraham inherits is a Spiritual land and kingdom, not a physical one in the middle east. A physical land won't last forever, only the heavenly Promised land endures forever.

1st John 2:17
  • "And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

It's not physical land as Abraham is in heaven and the only land he has acquired is the eternal spiritual promised land, Kingdom and reign. Not an earthly one. Promised and fulfilled. Not through the Old Covenant law of obedience to remain in the physical land, but an inheritance through the faith of Christ (Romans 4:13) that cannot be lost. This land is for Abraham and His Seed Christ. And all who are in Christ are heirs just as Abraham is, because Christ is the heir.

Galatians 3:28-29
  • "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
  • And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

What are Christians heirs of? Is it the physical land in Israel? Most certainly not. Clearly, that inheritance God is talking about is a spiritual inheritance, it is not declaring we too will find a physical land to dwell in the state of national Israel, but Spiritual in Christ. He is the true Israel of God where being a Jew is defined by Him, not physical attributes, lands or nations. Abraham received the very same promised land that all of us in Christ have been promised unconditionally. Selah.


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See the scripture. Genesis 17:8
<<<

Indeed! And the Scriptures confirm that Abraham missed the physical land promises made to "his seed," but will certainly share in the spiritual land promises made to Abraham and His seed. For these are the "New Covenant5" Promises that can only be fulfilled in the work of Christ and a spiritual place to dwell.

Genesis 17:7-8
  • "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy Seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
  • And I will give unto thee, and to thy Seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Abraham "never" was given the physical land of Canaan, so if God be true (and we know that He is) then this New Covenant established with both "Abraham and His Seed" concerning the land has nothing to do with the physical land of Canaan, in stark contrast to what was promised his seed after Abraham had passed (Genesis 15:18) and after they came out of Egypt. Unless of course we are going to speculate wildly that God is going to take Abraham back from heaven to live on this sin cursed physical earth? That whole idea is disjointed and confused. Rather Genesis 17:8 is promised as an "everlasting possession," and was therefore a skia or type pointing to the kingdom of heaven, "the better country" than a physical plot of dirt in the middle east. As indeed explained in Hebrews11:

Hebrews 11:15-19
  • "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
  • But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
  • By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
  • Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
  • Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."

The everlasting possession is the better country than the physical land of canaan, it is the Spiritual land promised and confirmed in the New Covenant Christ made strong in His blood. And the land, the inheritance, The Kingdom and reign is Spiritual and fulfilled in Christ. This does not have to be debated because it is told us very plainly in Scripture. The unconditional promises were not to Abraham's seed or children, but to one Seed, which again was always Christ. This has already been explained. Consider again:

Galatians 3:16-18
  • "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
  • And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
  • For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

If the promises you think were of literal land, then the inheritance is of the law and not grace. But if the promises were of a Spiritual habitation, confirmed by the body of Christ, then it is of grace and verified the "only" way it can be an everlasting possession in the Israel of God. Not a plot of dirt that is temporal, but a Spiritual land, the only land that can be eternal.


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So I am asking again where you get scripture that says that promise was conditional?
<<<

1st Kings 9:6-7
  • "But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:
  • Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:"

Sound in any way as a promise by God that He would keep the people in the land without conditions, forever? I mean, how clear can it be? All throughout Scripture God says be obedient and live in the land with the blessings of God. Be disobedient and God will cast you out of the land and Israel shall be a proverb (adage or aphorism) among all people.  In any dictionary, that's called a conditional promise of Covenant.


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>>>
Just provide the scripture and that will suffice.
<<<

I am praying the pertinent Scripture I bore witness to will suffice, but it has bee my experience that it seldom does with those understanding in terms of anthropomorphisms and blindly clinging to traditions and beliefs that aren't true. My hope is that I am wrong.

Hebrews 11:13-14
  • "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
  • For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country."

Indeed we all seek a country. Not national Israel "because" we are strangers and Pilgrims in this world, but a Promised land that we see by faith. Frankly, just think logically, which is thinking Biblically or reasonably. Come let us reason together, which is to convince by the word of God. How Could Abraham receive Canaan as "an everlasting possession" as was promised/covenanted in Genesis 17:8. Will Abraham will come back from the dead to receive or inherit and live again on this sin cursed earth? That makes no sense, and nowhere in the Bible is this taught. The way He will inherit this land is through Christ because the land of Canaan spoken of is the Spiritual possession of the Kingdom of God. That is the only true eternal inheritance and possession of Israel. Abraham sought that country by faith as he sojourned in this sin cursed world. And true to God's Promise, He received that Spiritual Promised land when he was absent from the body and present with the Lord. He saw the promised land by faith, which is the righteousness of Christ.

John 8:56
  • "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad/i]."

Abraham sojourned in this sin cursed earth having received a promise, saw the promised land far off by faith--and he rejoiced in it. Because it had nothing to do with a tiny physical patch of land in the middle east. This is the difference between Carnal thinking and Spiritual thinking, between carnal reigning on this sin cursed earth and Spiritual reigning with Christt in the Kingdom from above. 

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2019, 11:15:08 AM »
>>>
Those Amillennialists who don't take the bible literally just skip over passages that aren't yet fulfilled.
<<<

A spurious charge. What Scripture have we ignored or skipped over? I think we have dealt with every Scripture that you have brought up, which I must say has been very few.


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The patriarch Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all died without receiving promises made to them regarding the land of Canaan.
<<<

Doesn't that tell you something important? They would have had to be ancient human beings to live long enough on earth to receive the promise IF the promise was really of the physical land of Canaan that God promised Abraham's seed. This illustrates those Promises weren't to them. By contrast, the "promises made to "Abraham and his Seed" were to be fulfilled in Christ confirming that Promise or Covenant in His blood. So you have your promises mixed up. The promises to Abraham's seed were fulfilled, and not one thing promised was withheld. As God plainly said, all was fulfilled. The Promises made to "Abraham and his Seed" (which is Christ) are fulfilled in the New Covenant the Lord established in opening a path for a New Jerusalem, a Holy City from above, not from this on sin cursed earth. Christ is now reigning, not will be reigning some day in physical Jerusalem.

1st Corinthians 15:25
  • "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

Why are you looking for Christ to come to earth and reign when He is obviously already seated on the throne with God and already reigning over the kingdom. And those in Christ live and reign (Colossians 1:13) with Him. What is unfulfilled? Nothing concerning the New Covenant with Israel.


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Which means they will receive it when Christ comes back to reign from Jerusalem.
<<<

Why would Christ come back to reign from physical Jerusalem when that was merely a "type" pointing to the Spiritual Holy City from above? That would be like going back to sacrificing Lambs on the altar after Christ had already come and fulfilled that type in Israel. The truth is that Christ has already received the inheritance, has already established His kingdom, is already king and already reigning from Jerusalem, is already rebuilding the Temple, has already confirmed the New Covenant with any of Israel. Are you not aware that the New Covenant with Israel is this New Covenant church age?

Hebrews 8:12-13
  • "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  • In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

The Bible is very clear on all these points concerning Christ's kingdom, reign and Covenant with the Israel of God. The Jerusalem of this earth is a Jerusalem in bondage of the flesh (carnal), but the Jerusalem that Christ reigns over is Spiritual and free. Thus we (as her children) are also free, rather than in bondage. This is a Spiritual Jerusalem, a promised land that is not temporal but eternal as the promise requires.

Galatians 4:25-26
  • "For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
  • But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

She's our mother and we are her children, as opposed to earthly Jerusalem which could never be a true Holy or eternal city where Abraham's seed could reign forever.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2019, 11:25:16 AM »
>>>
It says land, not heaven. How do you reconcile that?
<<<

Indeed it does! Christy said to beware of wolves in Sheep's clothing also. Do wolves put on sheep's clothing? How do you reconcile that? ...Easily! Christ said you must drink His blood in Remembrance of Him. How do you reconcile that with we are not to drink blood? Easy! Christ said we are actually the building stones of the Temple. How do you reconcile that? God said Elijah, and this was John the Baptist. So how do you reconcile that? Christ said Leaven and meant doctrine. How do you reconcile that? Etc., etc., etc. 

My point of course is that we reconcile God's word "by" God's word. Not by Webster's dictionary, or what seems right in our own eyes or by popular consensus. The fact is, the New Covenant with Israel is the promised land just as the New Jerusalem is the Holy City. Not in a literal physical fashion, but in a representative Spiritual fashion. The redemption of Israel is not something promised that is future, it's something promised that is fulfilled now. God's Covenant or oath to Abraham of this promised land peace and security was fulfilled in Christ.

Luke 1:6873
  • "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
  • And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
  • As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
  • That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
  • To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
  • The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,"

The Oath, the Promise, the Vow, the Covenant, it's all the exact same meaning. Just like a marriage vow, a marriage oath, a marriage promise or a marriage covenant, it's simply a solemn affirmation that something will be done. And as Scripture shows, God has performed all that He sware or promised to do in delivering Israel from bondage among their enemies and translating them into His glorious Kingdom. Even as Luke chapter one illustrates. Israel has been redeemed and its kingdom established. Not in a carnal or earthly physical fashion, but Spiritually. ...according to God's word. The land of the New Covenant is an eternal Spiritual land, not a temporal physical one.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Walt Lee

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2019, 04:13:36 PM »
 )GoodPopst(  &TY

Travis

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2019, 12:30:55 AM »

You know you guys make such good arguments. I don't understand why people keep arguing the other side when it's so obvious that what you are saying is from scripture. I don't know where this reign of Christ on earth came from. Has it been around a long time?

Philly Dawg

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Re: Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2019, 02:11:28 AM »
You know you guys make such good arguments. I don't understand why people keep arguing the other side when it's so obvious that what you are saying is from scripture.

There are some people that you just can't reason with. Just like the Trump people. Cults are the same everywhere. They pick a side and they blindly follow the narrative of that side no matter if it is sound, true or even reasonable. That's what makes them adversaries of the truth. Their inability to accept it over their leaders narrative.


Quote
I don't know where this reign of Christ on earth came from. Has it been around a long time?

From what I have learned, it started with the Jewish people looking for just such a kingdom and it spread in some form to the Christians who held the Jewish doctrines higher than the bible itself. At least that's what I have read.
  Kellyanne Conway: Sometimes Trump Lies Because
 He Doesn't Know the Truth, Okay?

 


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