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Author Topic: Is Homosexual Marriage Next  (Read 11618 times)

Blade

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Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« on: June 28, 2003, 08:48:20 AM »
What was most disapointing about yesterday's decision about homosexual (so called) rights, is that four republican appointed judges voted for it. So what is the difference? There isn't one bit of difference between republicans and democrats except their rhetoric.

And I'll bet we get the same thing when they ruile for abortion again. This whole country is going to the dogs and there seems nothing we can do about it. These judges claimed the constitution was violated, but we all know the constitution says nothing about deviate sexual behaviour being protected in the home. Is beastiality protected by the constitution? No. So these judges lied in their decision.

The last court said there was nothing in the constitution which forbid the law. Now this court says there is? What has changed over a few years? The Constitution hasn't changed. It's a case of social values changing.


Sue Landow

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2003, 10:00:00 AM »
We're living in a world where people these days justify anything. Political correctness is a fact of life. When you have Christians like R.C. Sproul coming out saying homosexuals are born that way, and the President saying we should respect homosexuals, what do you expect. It's a new social climate. Very few (including Christians) are going to come out against homosexuals today because it is an automatic death sentence if you're in the public eye in any way. If you're a politician, you'll be persecuted by the media, and probably lose your job. If you are a christian, you'll be called hateful or homophobic and insensitive. Christian minister and football player Reggie White, simply said that he thought the bible taught that homosexuality was wrong, and he was dragged through the mud in the media for over a month. You have to be strong to take a stand, and Christians today are not strong.

You'll be lucky if you get two responses here, because people are all brainwashed to think speaking out is unchristian.

I remember a post a few years ago where Tony Warren wrote that this country was being systematically brainwashed by the media. Sorry to say, I totally disagreed with it. I now totally agree with it. Television is warping this country's sense of right and wrong, and it's most affecting our children.

But the adults are not immune either. My sister is getting tattos because she saw on TV that everyone else is getting them, and they look cool. My cousin, once a conservative, is  now arguing with me that homosexuals are born that way nad it's not really their fault.

The courts reversed themselves on this issue because the media has this constant drumbeat for gay movies, sitcoms, and rights, and it is affecting society adversesly. Everyone is accepting homosexuality as a fact of life. Did you think because the judges were Republican, they were somehow more noble or immune to this brainwashing? That's a myth. Voting republicans in isn't going to change a thing, because they are part of the problem also. Have no delusion that Republicans are going to straighten out this country. That's a dream and a myth, not reality.
"And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened". Luke 13:20-21

Tony Warren

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2003, 12:19:50 PM »
>>>
The courts reversed themselves on this issue because the media has this constant drumbeat for gay movies, sitcoms, and rights, and it is affecting society adversesly. Everyone is accepting homosexuality as a fact of life. Did you think because the judges were Republican, they were somehow more noble or immune to this brainwashing?
<<<

You hit the proverbial nail on the head. Society has changed, and Christians, instead of holding fast (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 2nd Timothy 1:13) the doctrines in the testimony of Christ, are changing right along with it. But when you change with the world, are ye not just like the world?

Proverbs 22:28
  • "Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set."

The ancient landmarks were "boundary markers" which marked the separation between one land and another. The word of God was once the ancient landmark that separated the church from the world, but now those landmarks have been removed so that there really is not much difference between the two principalities. They like the same music, the same reasons for breaking a marriage, the same immodest clothes, the same TV programs, the same luxuries, they have the same philosophies of life, and the same attitudes towards immorality. It is that same "live and let live" attitude that has done much damage to the church. Has not God before warned the churches:

Revelation 3:3
  • "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

The church is warned to hold fast the true faith, the first works, the things they have received and heard of Christianity, but the church today is careless and falling away from that sound base faster than it ever has. The rise in acceptance of Homosexuality by the church is just one example of many. God says this is an abomination, but today's "Politically Correct" Preachers want to soften that, by saying it is just a unfortunate birth defect, which we should all have compassion for and be sensitive to. A birth defect makes it involuntary, the person then not responsible for sin. Just as alcoholism is now a disease, making it involuntary and removing responsibility. There is no taking responsibility anymore for anything, it's all hereditary, or because of man's upbringing, or because of neglect. Surely God is a God of love and will see they're not responsible and have compassion..

Leviticus 18:22
  • "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

God didn't say it was a involuntary birth defect, He said don't do it, under the judgment of severe consequences. Indeed you are right about "warped" views. I receive many letters from irate professed "Christians" asking why I wrote the article about homosexuality being an abomination to God, as if I should never have testified to God's word plainly declaring that.  We are living in a day of spiritual insanity, where even professing Christians are seduced, deluded or blinded to the truth. These enablers are not all out in the world, they are in the church as well.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Eowyn

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2003, 08:14:13 AM »
Quote
and the President saying we should respect homosexuals, what do you expect.
Why is this a problem? Why do we magnify homosexuality? Surely it is not the unforgiveable sin. We must respect all people, and that is not mutally exclusive of disrespecting thier actions or decions.

Yes, homosexuality is wrong. But those who practise it need to repent and then be accepted by churches, not ostracised by them.

Deuce Johnson

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2003, 09:44:21 AM »
and the President saying we should respect homosexuals, what do you expect.
Quote
Why is this a problem?

 If you are a Christian and do not know why this is a problem, then how can anyone here tell you?

Should we respect Prostitutes? Should we respect Murderers? Should we respect Torturers? Should we respect the Child Molesting Priest? The answer is no. Neither should we respect homosexuals. And the President should know better than to say something like that since he calls himself a christian. But He is also a politician looking for votes.

We can respect "former" muderers, rapists and homosexuals, but a Christoian should not respect present murderers, homosexuals and rapists. They have no part in the Kingdom of heaven and no respect of real Christians.

 1Co 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


Such were some of us, unrespectable and damned, but now are we different, washed, made clean.

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Why do we magnify homosexuality? Surely it is not the unforgiveable sin. We must respect all people, and that is not mutally exclusive of disrespecting thier actions or decions.

We don't magnify homosexuality, God does. God used it as a sign of coming destruxction. It's the sign of degradation in society and the collapse of morals and the fear of God. God calls it an abomination. What do you call it?

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Yes, homosexuality is wrong. But those who practise it need to repent and then be accepted by churches, not ostracised by them.

Those who repent are accepted by the Churches. It is those who do not repent and want to be both Christians and homosexuals who those who are not accepted and ostacised by bible believing Churches. As well they should be.

This liberal philosophy in the Church of let's just love everyone and not say anything is wrong is it's downfall. There must be discipline in the Church, or else there is chaos.

jd@

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2003, 06:18:40 PM »
Quote
Should we respect Prostitutes? Should we respect Murderers?

Indeed.  Should we respect liars?  Should we respect people who cheat on their taxes?  Who rip people off?

I guess we probably are working from a different definition of the word "respect"...

I'm certainly not saying that all sins are equal, but Eowyn has a point.

Quote
We don't magnify homosexuality, God does. God used it as a sign of coming destruction

Are you thinking of Paul's discussion in Romans 1?  Or something else?

Quote
God calls it an abomination. What do you call it?

Don't forget He also calls faulty weights and measures an abomination.  (Proverbs 11:1)  Do you treat shopkeepers who rip people off the same way?

Deuce Johnson

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2003, 09:01:50 PM »
Don't forget He also calls faulty weights and measures an abomination.  (Proverbs 11:1)  Do you treat shopkeepers who rip people off the same way?

I'm confused. Are you a Christian or not? Do you believe the word of God or not? Let's not kid ourselves here. Of course it's an abomination. Why would you attempt to make it out to be anything less?

Not only thieving shopkeepers, but Ministers ripping off the congregation are an abomination. Of course they are. Just what are you trying to say? That they are not? That God is a liar? Or that abomination isn't really that bad? Just what are you saying about these scriptures?

Kenneth White

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2003, 04:12:05 AM »

I'm certainly not saying that all sins are equal, but Eowyn has a point.

It seems to me that both you and Eowyn have been infected with a strain of postmodernistic or postchristianistic thought. Much of the Church  today has been religiously disestablished by the PC parade of media and social acceptance of homosexuality. But Christians should hold fast God's word and not be infected with this sickness.

Would you tell the preacher he should not speak out against murder, adultery, or Prostitution  because he is picking on those people or singling out this one sin? What does God say about homosexuals? He says that they will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. He doesn't say, don't ever repeat that. That's the witness of God's word.

I guess I'm just old fashioned, because I cannot really fathom how a Christian can protest another Christian who makes a post saying it is wrong for the courts to decriminalize homosexuality or that says homosexual marriages are wrong. And if I had to make judgement, I don't even think such people are Christian. It doesn't make sense to me.

Their state of mind just goes to show the really sad state Christianity is in now. How many years ago would most Christians think someone who protested condemning homosexuality was possessed of the devil. Even non-christians would think so. But today they probably either agree with the PC path, or are sympathetic to what you are saying about homosexuals. That's abomination. And that's why both society and the Church is in trouble.

They made their own rules, and their own laws. But when you've danced to the music, you're going to have to pay the piper.
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Kenneth White

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2003, 04:18:54 AM »
This whole country is going to the dogs and there seems nothing we can do about it. These judges claimed the constitution was violated, but we all know the constitution says nothing about deviate sexual behaviour being protected in the home. Is beastiality protected by the constitution? No.

There is something we can do about it. Keep preaching the truth about these abominations. Don't be dissuaded by the PC Christians who secretly hate everything God stands for. It's not going to change the world, or even deliver them from evil, but it's part of the Christian's work.

 Jeremiah 5:12 They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine:
 13 And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them.
 14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Daisy

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2003, 07:01:20 AM »
Kenneth and Blade, I couldn't agree more. I am so sick of the media pushing the liberal homosexual agenda. It's just gotten sickening over the last couple years. It's almost that every program has to have a homosexual, with a new twist coming out regularly. Now it's "Queer eye for the straight guy" fashions. You would think the homosexuals are taking over the world if you went by the media frenzy to get in on the Homosexual craze. And all these Christian apologists make me sick to my stomach. I think they are traitors to the christian cause.

What's even worse is the silence of the Church on the issue. Just what is the Church good for anymore anyway besides raising money, abandoning doctrines, and campaigning for politicians? They've lost their way and we're hearing the results of their abandoning the gospel more and more. Anyone who thinks there is not a famine of hearing the word of God need only listen to Christians on this issue. And it's not just a few either. It's a great flood of brain washed people.


Mike Repass

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2003, 09:19:02 AM »
jd@ « Reply #5 on: July 23, 2003, 04:18:40 PM »
I guess we probably are working from a different definition of the word "respect"...

Which definition are you working with so everyone can be on the same page?

Main Entry: 1re·spect
Pronunciation: ri-'spekt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin respectus, literally, act of looking back, from respicere to look back, regard, from re- + specere to look -- more at SPY
Date: 14th century
1 : a relation or reference to a particular thing or situation <remarks having respect to an earlier plan>
2 : an act of giving particular attention : CONSIDERATION
3 a : high or special regard : ESTEEM b : the quality or state of being esteemed c plural : expressions of respect or deference <paid our respects>
4 : PARTICULAR, DETAIL <a good plan in some respects>
- in respect of chiefly British : with respect to : CONCERNING
- in respect to : with respect to : CONCERNING
- with respect to : with reference to : in relation to

Main Entry: 2respect
Function: transitive verb
Date: 1560
1 a : to consider worthy of high regard : ESTEEM b : to refrain from interfering with
2 : to have reference to : CONCERN
synonym see REGARD
- re·spect·er noun

Main Entry: self-re·spect
Pronunciation: -ri-'spekt
Function: noun
Date: circa 1814
1 : a proper respect for oneself as a human being
2 : regard for one's own standing or position

Main Entry: 1es·teem
Pronunciation: is-'tEm
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 archaic : WORTH, VALUE
2 archaic : OPINION, JUDGMENT
3 : the regard in which one is held; especially : high regard <the esteem we all feel for her>

Main Entry: 3worth
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1 a : monetary value <farmhouse and lands of little worth> b : the equivalent of a specified amount or figure <a dollar's worth of gas>
2 : the value of something measured by its qualities or by the esteem in which it is held <a literary heritage of great worth>
3 a : moral or personal value <trying to teach human worth> b : MERIT, EXCELLENCE <a field in which we have proved our worth>
4 : WEALTH, RICHES

Main Entry: 1mer·it
Pronunciation: 'mer-&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French merite, from Latin meritum, from neuter of meritus, past participle of merEre to deserve, earn; akin to Greek meiresthai to receive as one's portion, meros part
Date: 14th century
1 a obsolete : reward or punishment due b : the qualities or actions that constitute the basis of one's deserts c : a praiseworthy quality : VIRTUE d : character or conduct deserving reward, honor, or esteem; also : ACHIEVEMENT
2 : spiritual credit held to be earned by performance of righteous acts and to ensure future benefits
3 a plural : the intrinsic nature of a legal case apart from considerations of circumstance, jurisdiction, or procedure b : individual significance or justification

Tony Warren

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2003, 12:31:36 PM »
>>>
Yes, homosexuality is wrong. But those who practise it need to repent and then be accepted by churches, not ostracised by them.

Those who repent are accepted by the Churches. It is those who do not repent and want to be both Christians and homosexuals who those who are not accepted and ostacised by bible believing Churches. As well they should be.
<<<

That exactly right. No self-respecting Christian ostracizes or excludes by company former homosexuals who like any other sinner repents of their sin. But those who want to continue to be homosexuals, and yet take the name of Christ should be ostracized. Because they are making a mockery of the name of Christ and the new creation.

2nd Corinthians 5:17-18
  • "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
  • And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;"

To say we "respect" Homosexuals is to disrespect God. To say we have no problem with Homosexuals being able to practice their abominations lawfully, is to deny that we are a new creature renewed in Christ. To say homosexuals can be Christians is to deny the new birth, the working of the Spirit, and the word of God that "plainly" declares that no Homosexual shall inherit the Kingdom of God.  Those following Christ understand that many Christians are former homosexuals, they are not Christian homosexuals anymore than others are Christian prostitutes.

Romans 6:1-2
  • "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
  • God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Quote
I guess we probably are working from a different definition of the word "respect"...

What "alternative" definition would that be? Respect means to have a special elevated regard for someone. It means to hold one in honor or high esteem. It means to think they are of good character. It means to have reverence or good consideration of someone. It means to have a high degree of regard or trust in a person's virtue or traits. None of which the Christian should have for Homosexuals because even by your own admission, God calls it an abomination, and declares unambiguously that these people shall not inherit the Kingdom of heaven. Therefore to have respect for them is to be an offense to God.


Quote
Don't forget He also calls faulty weights and measures an abomination.  (Proverbs 11:1)  Do you treat shopkeepers who rip people off the same way?

Absolutely, they are criminals. Or what you really mean is do I say it is wrong for Christians to say they have respect for rip-off artists and thieves who run dishonest shops? You BETCHA! They won't inherit the Kingdom of heaven either. Along with fornicators, adulterers, and idolaters. They're all an abomination to God. For us to say we respect them would be decidedly unchristian.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10
  • "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
  • Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

..and such were some of us... But not anymore, because now they are born from above to have cast off the old man.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Knobbly

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2003, 01:32:47 AM »
Quote
Should we respect Prostitutes? Should we respect Murderers? Should we respect Torturers? Should we respect the Child Molesting Priest? The answer is no. Neither should we respect homosexuals.

So your saying we shouldn't respect any sinner?  If that was the case none of us here could respect each other because we are all sinners.  What about the child who grabs a sweet without paying for it, or the tramp who steals some newspaper are they sinner's not worthy of our respect?  Is King David not worthy of our respect because he was a lustful perve? (and a murder to boot)

Why do homosexuals deserve a special kind of 'disrespect' but adulterous heterosexuals don't?

jd@

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2003, 02:00:26 AM »
Well, this is a learning experience for me...

Quote
It seems to me that both you and Eowyn have been infected with a strain of postmodernistic or postchristianistic thought.  

Would you be able to explain this please?  Because I really can't for the life of me see why.  I thought I was just asking a few questions.  Maybe it's my blind spot, maybe we've got some cultural differences, or maybe it just comes down to communication difficulties...

Quote
I'm confused. Are you a Christian or not? Do you believe the word of God or not?

Yes, I'm a Christian.  Yes, I believe the Word of God.  Have I said anything to make you doubt that??

It seems form your definition of respect as "to hold one in honor or high esteem" I would be happy to say that I don't respect homosexuals.  But there are two important points to bear in mind.  One is that they were created in God's image, and bear the remains of the same.  The other is Knobbly's point that we are all sinners.  It was this that I was alluding to in my comparison with dishonest merchants - it isn't just homosexuality that is an abomination to God.  

Maybe the key to all this is whether someone has repented.  Ultimately, I guess, there is only one sin that is grounds for ostracising or excommunicating someone, and that is the sin of inpenitence.

Having said that, when it says to treat someone as an unbeliever, that means to evangelise them, not ignore them.

Quote
I guess I'm just old fashioned, because I cannot really fathom how a Christian can protest another Christian who makes a post saying it is wrong for the courts to decriminalize homosexuality or that says homosexual marriages are wrong. And if I had to make judgement, I don't even think such people are Christian. It doesn't make sense to me.

And if I had to make a judgement I'd say be careful about jumping to conclusions based on a single post...


Oneil

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Re: Is Homosexual Marriage Next
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2003, 07:53:08 AM »
Yes, I'm a Christian.  Yes, I believe the Word of God.  Have I said anything to make you doubt that??

Frankly, yes. I know that there are many definitions of Christian out there, but it's getting to be ridiculous. Christians do not defend homosexuality. Christians do not tell others to respect homosexuality. Christians do not speak out in support of decriminalizing homosexuality. And Christians do not do their best to make homosexuality acceptable as just another sin like Christians who sin. Yes, your idea of who is a Christian is obviously quite different from those of us who hold fast to the biblical laws.

Quote
But there are two important points to bear in mind.  One is that they were created in God's image, and bear the remains of the same.

 Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

This abomination is hardly the image of God deserving our respect, it is the anti-image. A Christian would have to be delusional in thinking that those practicing this unnatural, despicable and vile act are acting in the image of God and deserve respect.


 


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