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Author Topic: Why I Am Still A Catholic  (Read 19114 times)

Deuce Johnson

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Re: Why I Am Still A Catholic
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2012, 08:41:25 AM »


 Why I am Not Roman Catholic

http://www.reformedreflections.ca/other-religions/not-roman-catholic.pdf

 The number one reason, Christ, the Word.

JohnDunningUK

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Re: Why I Am Still A Catholic
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2012, 07:20:31 PM »

I never said we weren't justified by faith. I said we are not justified by faith alone. You see, you guys just keep putting words in my mouth or implying things that are not true, or like JohnDunningUK just ranting about the Roman Catholic Church and Jehovah Witnesses without defending a doctrine and without basis of scripture. For the record, we are justified by faith.

Doug,

If you took my statement as a hateful rant against the Roman Catholic Church and Jehovah's Witnesses, then I apologise because it was never meant to be read that way. Unfortunately I cannot remember what I wrote word for word as my post has disappeared, but if it did appear hateful then please accept my sincere apologies. However that is not to say that on the basis of what I understand of the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, it is an apostate church at best, and at worst it is a heretical cult. And for that I make no apology whatsoever.

You made the point that I had not defended my "rant" with Scripture, but in all honesty, what is the the point in doing that? Especially when the person engaged in the discussion allows equal authority to church tradition as it does to the very Word of God itself. In fact, the things that I believe are the most problematic are the very things that cannot be defended by Scripture anyway, because they are completely absent from it.

Things such as;

1. Claiming papal infalliblity without any warrant from Scripture, or even any acknowledgent of such an office in the church, other than maybe Christ Himself.

2. Teaching that the wafer and cup actually manifest as the body and blood of Christ in substance, rather than merely being symbolical reminders of His death, where He is present with us only in a spiritual sense.

3. Having the audacity to proclaim who are saints, and virtually idolising them, when the Bible teaches us that all true believers are saints.

4. Lying to the congregation by telling them there is a place by the name of purgatory that sins are cleansed after death, and even offering ways for those still alive to pay to shorten the time of those considered to be there.

5. Teaching dogmatically that Mary is the mother of God, and has been raised body and soul and taken into heavenly glory already, when in truth Christ is the only such firstfruit of the Gospel.

6. Deceitfully making an office of the church as priest, when all believers belong to a royal priesthood, with only ONE High Priest, who is Jesus Christ Himself. Not only that, but teaching others to call these false priests "father", when the Bible clearly teaches us to call no man by such name, because our Father is in heaven (Matt 23:9).

7. Witholding the very Word of God from the majority of the laity for as long as possible, by translating it into a language (latin) rarely understood by the majority.

8. Erroneously teaching people to pray to dead saints as well as God.

I'm sure this list could go on and on, but that is not my main gripe with the Roman Catholic Church, as I'm sure that we've all held to wrong doctrine at some point or another, I know I have. I suppose the crunch comes really whether or not you're willing to repent when those things are pointed out by the Holy Spirit through His Word. Unfortunately the Roman Catholic Church seems very slow if not stationary when it comes to this.

The greatest error I believe the Roman Catholic Church is guilty of, and completely unrepentantly I might add, is with regard to their treatment of those who preach the true Gospel of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in the completed work of Christ alone on behalf of those He came to save. For not only does the RCC stand in disagreement with the true Gospel, they proclaim the curse of God upon those who hold to it and preach it.

To my knowledge, the following canons were issued by the council of Trent, and have never been recanted. As long as this remains to be the case, I will never accept that the Roman Catholic Church is part of the true Body of Christ, but in fact is an apostate church of the devil. Obviously there will be those of the elect who are saved "out" of it, but it will always be in spite of, and not because of the message it teaches and preaches. Here are a few of the canons I mention, followed by what I believe are the Scriptures that completely contradict what is stated.

CANON 9:  "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."  Rom 3:20-28, Rom 4:3, Rom 5:1, Eph 2:8

CANON 12:  "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed" John 1:12, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:3, Heb 7:25-27, 2 Tim 1:12

CANON 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." Rom 4:3, Rom 5:1

CANON 24:  "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema." Gal 3:1-3, Gal 5:1-3

CANON 30:  "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."  Rom 5:1, Col 2:13-14

CANON 33:  "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.


With regard to the last canon I quoted, it reads to me that anyone disagreeing with the Roman Catholic Church regarding their twisted view of justification, then they are under the curse of God. With outrageous arrogance, they manage to curse those who disagree with them, and do so in the name of God, when it is they who by what they teach actually contradict the Word of God directly. Therefore the curse they put forth is without authority, and as far as I can see, will be heaped upon their own head.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:8-9 (KJV)


And unlike the RCC anathema, the one above is written under the direct authority of God, whose authority the RCC curse in their articles above.

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 12:3 (KJV)


It is by faith alone that believers are grafted into the Israel of God, and it is they who the teachings of the RCC are directly attacking.

Doug, I'm sorry to say it this bluntly, and I do not mean it hatefully in any way. If you genuinely believe the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, especially those which directly contradict the teaching of Scripture concerning the justifying work of Christ alone, which is received solely by faith and not by works, then the Word of God calls you to repent. If you don't, and you choose to proudly march down the road you are heading along, it will lead you directly into the Lake of Fire. Repent and be forgiven, for His blood truly does cleanse us from all unrighteousness; past, present and future.

God bless,

John.
It's all about Him!

John

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Re: Why I Am Still A Catholic
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2012, 08:28:26 PM »
Quote
You are to hear the Church, but you won't because you worship a book.

Indeed, not worshiping a book but worshiping the Holy God who wrote the Book!!

Now you need to answer this question:  Who owns the Church?  That is, who is the voice that tells the Church what is right and what is wrong, what is proper and what is improper, what is truth and what is a lie?

Do you know?

It isn't the apostles. It isn't the Pope or Church rulers. It isn't Peter. It isn't Mary.

OK. Some more help - even though this is a passage from that selfsame Book, give it a read:



Col 1:18
18  And He is the Head of the body, the assembly, who is the Beginning, the First-born out of the dead, that He be preeminent in all things



Still stumped who this "He" is that rules over the assembly?

More assistance is needed here, no doubt. I'll make it even easier. This Book that you believe should be relegated to a lesser status than the voice of the Church, says this:


Eph 4:15
15  but speaking the truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, the Christ



Yes, there it is: Christ is the Head over the assembly called the Church. One more verse to nail it down for you:


Eph 1:22
22  And He has put all things under His feet and gave Him to be Head over all things to the church



So, who rules and governs over the Church . . .?

Did you say Peter and an unbroken succession of apostles leading to the Pope!?? 

I understand you hold another view. The Book is in conflict with official Catholic teaching which is why it must stay beneath Church authority, or else Catholics everywhere would be forced to hear and obey it. Frightening isn't it.

They won't though - because they have been instructed to obey only the voice of their Church (which is never wrong). They trust the head of their Church  -  the Pope instead of the head of the Church  - the Son of God.

Perhaps you can explain something?

How is it that wherein Christ wrote the very Book in which HE says plainly that HE is the Head of the Church, the Ruler over the assembly, making THE BOOK the AUTHORITY by which Christ speaks to His Church - yet, you say Peter's successors are head of the Church and don't take orders from this BOOK but listen only to the voice of the Church??

Do you see the basic problem?  I do.

1. Christ wrote the Bible
2. The Bible teaches that Christ is the Head over the Church
3. Therefore, the Bible has preeminence over the Church

You say rather:

1. Christ wrote the Bible
2. The Bible teaches that Christ is the Head over the Church
3. Therefore, the Church is the Head over the Bible

Nope, that doesn't make any sense, does it?

Still, it's a free country - you can ignore the Bible and make up whatever doctrine you want. You can teach them near and far. You can even believe them with all your might.

Yet, you still are stuck with that 'ol Holy Book and in it the Words of Christ telling you that His Word defines and judges everything the Church does, says, writes, thinks, believes, and teaches.  Why is that?

Again - because Christ is the Head over the Church and therefore Rules over all aspects of His Church.

Your Church can say Mary is a co-redeemer with Christ, is perfect, ascended into Heaven bodily, answers prayers, is the Mother of God, was sinless, and had no other children but Jesus. You can SAY that - but your MASTER is Christ and He WROTE the BOOK that He JUDGES the Church by as the HEAD of the Church, so YOU have to ANSWER to the BOOK of CHRIST because it is the VOICE OF CHRIST (who rules over you).

If your Church teaches anything - no matter how insignificant - the MASTER of the CHURCH, which is CHRIST, demands that it be in accordance to HIS BOOK (which He wrote for that purpose).

So, why do you think your Church can have Christ as its ultimate HEAD and yet not listen to the voice of the BOOK of Truth that He gave it? 

Doug, you have an undying allegiance to your Church. That we all can attest.

Why is it you do not have an undying allegiance to the true HEAD of the Church and listen and obey the HOLY BOOK that He wrote that dictates what the Church is to do and believe?


Eph 5:23-24
23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
24  Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.



Doug, who are you going to obey?

Will it be the Lord Jesus Christ who subjects the Church in all things. Or will it be to your Church. A Church that thinks to subject Christ to itself and believes it can rule over Him?


john
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Deuce Johnson

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Re: Why I Am Still A Catholic
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2012, 10:09:40 PM »

Why I am not a Roman Catholic?  Doctrine!

Let me count the ways!

 http://deceptioninthechurch.com/cat-ndx.html

 Clearly Heretical to everyone but the most blind apologists.

 http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2491.0




ray

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Re: Why I Am Still A Catholic
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2012, 08:18:13 AM »
Quote
I never said we weren't justified by faith. I said we are not justified by faith alone.

Doug
While Catholicism in its self is in conflict with a lot scripture , the question of one's soteriology should be at the forefront of any serious debate.Surely it must follow that if one's belief in how one is saved is suspect , then it is really a moot point engaging in discussions over other doctrine. Your statement above to the effect that we are not justified by faith alone raises a lot of questions regarding the purpose and nature of salvation.

Firstly , that we are justified by faith alone is most evident in scripture, and there are indeed many passages that attest to this truth.

                Galatians 2:16
                                         Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus
                                         Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ , that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
                                         and not by the works of the law:for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


                Romans 11:6
                                         And if by grace , then is it no more of works , otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be
                                        of works , then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

                Romans 3:24
                                         Being justified freely by his grace through the redemtion that is in Christ Jesus.


Secondly , justification by faith and works , is contrary to the doctrines of sovereign grace , predestination , the atonement for our sin and the propitiation made for our sin.That we justified by a single sacrifice for all our sin should never be in dispute, and this is something that the writer to the Hebrews makes clear.

                 Hebrews 10:14
                                          For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.

                 Hebrews 9:26-28
                                             For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once
                                             in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

                                             And as it appointed unto men once to die, but after this time the judgement.
                                            So Christ was was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for
                                             him  shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


The question is Doug, where in any of these passages do you identify where any man has to contribute to his salvation by his own works. It is evident no where, simply because everything required for our justification was completed by Christ at the cross . Christ has redeemed us , Christ has reconciled us to the Father , Christ has atoned for the sin of his people and Jesus was the propitation for our sin . Do you notice a pattern here ? , it is all of Christ , and nothing of man , that any man  should boast.

                           Romans 3:27
                                                Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?Nay, but by the law of faith.
                                                 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

JohnDunningUK

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Re: Why I Am Still A Catholic
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2012, 10:30:27 AM »
Amen!
It's all about Him!

Melanie

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Re: Why I Am Still A Catholic
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2019, 06:24:22 AM »
justification by faith and works , is contrary to the doctrines of sovereign grace , predestination , the atonement for our sin and the propitiation made for our sin.That we justified by a single sacrifice for all our sin should never be in dispute, and this is something that the writer to the Hebrews makes clear.

                 Hebrews 10:14
                       For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.
                 Hebrews 9:26-28
                            For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it appointed unto men once to die, but after this time the judgement. So Christ was was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him  shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The Roman Catholic theology where man has to contribute to his salvation by his own good works, and yet the doctrine still be salvation by grace is contradictory. The teaching, in essence, says salvation is by grace and also by works, and that is not the doctrine of the bible. Every Catholic should examine their beliefs in the light of what the bible says, and they seldom do. Clearly the true church of God is justified by faith and not keeping any form of the deeds of the law. We can't hold to both law and grace.


 


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