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Author Topic: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21  (Read 6027 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 03:17:59 PM »
Quote from: John
The time reference "I am coming as a thief" is clearly the return of Christ on the clouds in Judgment on that last day. The wicked of the earth, Satan, and the demons are weighed in the balance (talent) and found wanting.

John,

Rev 16:12-16 KJV
[12]  And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13]  And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14]  For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15]  Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16]  And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

This is the spiritual battle of Armageddon concerning church PRIOR to Second Coming.  So isn't Christ coming as a thief already taking place during the judgment of the whore (eg. one hour of judgment) as we see instead of on the last day when Christ appears in the sky? I asked because we read:

Rev 16:17-21 KJV
[17]  And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
[18]  And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
[19]  And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
[20]  And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
[21]  And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Do you believe that the vial of seventh angel takes place on the last day...because God said, "it is done?" Or it is still the judgment of the church right prior to Second Coming which is very close?  Exact what is the nature of hailstone upon men that caused them to blasphemed against God?

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Frank Mortimer

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2016, 03:21:53 AM »

Revelation is not sequential. Have you read the book "Behold He Cometh?"

Erik Diamond

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2016, 04:40:59 AM »
Quote from: Frank
Revelation is not sequential. Have you read the book "Behold He Cometh?"

What page number of Rev. Herman Hoeksema's book, "Behold he Cometh" did he specifically say that 7th vial does not comes after 6th vial?

Are you suggesting that all vials were released at the same time that covered the whole judgment period of the whore?

Erik

 

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Melanie

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2016, 05:05:19 AM »

Personaly, I respect Rev. Herman Hoeksema but I don't agree with many of the interpretations that he supports. He says himself Quote: "In the first place, as we have remarked time and again, we must not take anything in the spiritual sense unless the book plainly indicates this." He thinks there will literally be boils on people that came out of the vials. How he and others can think that, I cannot begin to imagine.

Melanie

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2016, 05:22:50 AM »
He also says "Then, as we have said before, there is absolutely no reason to take the terms earth and sea, rivers and fountains of waters, and sun in a symbolic sense, since there is nothing in the text that warrants such an interpretation".

This is wrong.

Herman Stowe

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2016, 07:09:32 AM »
Melanie,
 Yes it is wrong. I respect Rev. Herman Hoeksema as well, but I have to say that there is plenty in the text of scripture that warrants such a symbolic interpretation. Here's just one example of many

Revelation 8:10-11
"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

No way the fountain of waters and star that made it bitter are not symbolic. So even good preachers make mistakes in judgment.

George

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2016, 01:32:22 PM »
Are you all saying the great hail of Revelation 16 is symbolic and not literal? Where is your justification of that?

Stan Pat

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2016, 01:14:09 AM »
Are you all saying the great hail of Revelation 16 is symbolic and not literal?

Yes George, that's what we're saying.


Quote
Where is your justification of that?

How about common sense and comparing scripture with scripture. Do you really think angels are sitting in heaven with literal cups of blood, plagues and sores? And they pour their cups out on the literal sun and in literal rivers that then dried up? Come on George!

 Revelation 16:1  And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
 4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Lieberman

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2016, 11:16:51 AM »
How about common sense and comparing scripture with scripture. Do you really think angels are sitting in heaven with literal cups of blood, plagues and sores? And they pour their cups out on the literal sun and in literal rivers that then dried up? Come on George!

Indeed. People who make these kinds of statements, you really have to wonder about their thought process. I don't mean to disparage anyone, but really? Isn't it obvious, or is it just me?


Soldier

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2020, 03:24:20 AM »
<<< We use mountain retreat and two other sights we feel are truthful.>>>

This is a good oasis for thirsty travellers.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/bkolberg/

andreas.

Like so many Christian sites of old, that oasis is dried up. Sad what's happening to the light houses.


Soldier

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2020, 03:27:53 AM »
Mt 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Note the distinction between he that had been given one talent. He's the one under judgement. And it's the weight of one talent that falls on the head of those under judgement. It's all related.

Thank you Erik for directing me to this and thank you Reformer for your insights. So you're saying the plagues are God's judgment on the church, but how is the hail produce blasphemy if it is from heaven?


Quote
In this parable, that he that received only one talent is called to an account for his failure to work.

How does that relate to today's Christians? I think that there is a difference between famine and not working.


Quote
1Co 4:1  Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

We've all been given of God as stewards of weighty matters, and what we do with them is what really matters.

 Lu 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Which brings us to Revelation 16.

 isn't it the church that has been given much?

But the church cannot be judged so how does this apply to them as far as being beaten worse?


Quote
Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Is it possible that the weight being a talent is to show that they are giving a certain accounting for their sins. A day of reckoning for what was given them and how they misused it?

That's what  I find interesting, but God says the church will never fail and has eternal life. Is this again the separation of church from church in a spiritual rather than house of God sense?

 

Soldier

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2020, 03:32:18 AM »
How about common sense and comparing scripture with scripture. Do you really think angels are sitting in heaven with literal cups of blood, plagues and sores? And they pour their cups out on the literal sun and in literal rivers that then dried up? Come on George!

You would think the spiritual nature of these things of Revelation would be obvious wouldn't you? I understand the plagues are not literal diseases and physical stars. Why is that so difficult for others to grasp? )thinker(

Erik Diamond

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2020, 04:38:42 AM »
Quote
So you're saying the plagues are God's judgment on the church, but how is the hail produce blasphemy if it is from heaven?

In Old Testament, Egypt was judged by God this way:


Exo 9:18-26
(18)  Behold, to morrow about this time I will cause it to rain a very grievous hail, such as hath not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now.
(19)  Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die.
(20)  He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:
(21)  And he that regarded not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.
(22)  And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch forth thine hand toward heaven, that there may be hail in all the land of Egypt, upon man, and upon beast, and upon every herb of the field, throughout the land of Egypt.
(23)  And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and hail, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.
(24)  So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.
(25)  And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.
(26)  Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.

The hail, along with fire, has killed many Egyptians and destroyed the herb and trees of the field. So severe that never been seen since the creation. That was the judgment of Egypt.

Today, we are living in the New Testament where God's unfaithful congregation considered as Spiritual Egypt, Revelation 11:8. Therefore, God's judgment upon church is spiritual:


Rev 8:7
(7)  The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.


Rev 16:21
(21)  And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


Rev 11:13
(13)  And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Here God sees the trees and grass as men, specifically, the unsaved professed Christians who have not yet been sealed by God before the judgment: 


Rev 9:3-6
(3)  And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
(4)  And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
(5)  And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
(6)  And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Again, God is talking about the judgment of his unfaithful congregation which is SPIRITUAL EGYPT filled with professed Christians where the abomiantion of desolation is now standing. This is where the plagues are pouring upon. 

Like with the locusts, fire, earthquake, sores, etc. in the book of Revelation, the hail is God's judgment upon Christians, spiritually.  Those who have not sealed by God.  Like Reformer said, it is those because of unbelief, deceitfulness, and delusions in their church. The hail comes with the weight of the balance (talent) upon the church, Babylon the Great. Just like with how God has judged Old Testament physical empire of Babylon, as an example.  It is the total destruction of the kingdom. This is what the fall of Babylon the Great of Revealtion 17-18 is about...in spiritual sense. Something that we, Elect, can "see" and prophesy about it.

The unfaithful church is spiritually Egypt, Sodom, and Babylon in the New Testament. This is where the judgment is taking place.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Dan

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2020, 12:35:11 PM »
Quote
So you're saying the plagues are God's judgment on the church, but how is the hail produce blasphemy if it is from heaven?

In Old Testament, Egypt was judged by God this way:


Nope! Egypt was judged with literal plagues. You are wrong again Erik.

Dan

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Re: Great Hail of Revelation 16:21
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2020, 12:36:56 PM »
Are you all saying the great hail of Revelation 16 is symbolic and not literal? Where is your justification of that?

 )goodquestion(

 


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