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Author Topic: beards  (Read 7548 times)

daniel brown

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beards
« on: June 22, 2003, 09:50:14 AM »
i would like to here some responses on wearing of beards,if any one would please, myself i dont see any biblical defence on shaving, i may be wrong, but i know this group is strait forward for the most part . i thank you for your time and help.                 daniel                                    

daniel brown

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Re:beards
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2003, 10:01:08 PM »
im not sure if i ask the wrong way or the wrong kind of question, or is there no biblical reasons for shaving beards,and mustashes i would greatly apreciate some responces from others here who have more biblical knowledge than i do again thank you.  daniel

Reformer

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Re:beards
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2003, 08:02:10 AM »
im not sure if i ask the wrong way or the wrong kind of question, or is there no biblical reasons for shaving beards,and mustashes i would greatly apreciate some responces from others here who have more biblical knowledge than i do again thank you.  daniel

What scriptures are you presenting to be addressed? Are you saying shaving is a sin, or what are you saying? You should be a little more clear in your posts what you want to address.

daniel brown

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Re:beards
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2003, 06:27:26 PM »
if there is biblical valadation for shaving then its probably not a sin if there is  no valadation for shaving then its probably a sin.  im trying to get others opinions on this issue or biblical reference about it   thank you for your time

Mike Repass

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Re:beards
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2003, 10:49:55 AM »
Biblical reason one:
You live under the law and you are a leper and you are to be cleansed.

LEV 14:8 And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days.   9 But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his eyebrows, even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean.  

Biblical reason two:
You are Ezekiel and God tells you to so He can make a point.

Ezekiel 5:1 And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause [it] to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the [hair].  

My question to you would be: Would God ask someone to sin in order to be cleansed or in order to make a point?

Gal. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.  

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?   2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

daniel brown

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Re:beards
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2003, 07:13:41 PM »
what about lev 19:27   Ye shall not round thy corners of thy heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard

Lev 21:5  They shall not make baldness apon there head, neither shall they shave off the corner of there beard, nor make any cuttings in there flesh.

2 sam 10:5  When they told it unto David, he sent to meet them, because the men were greatly ashamed;  and the king said, Tarry at Jericho untill your beards be grown, and then return

1 chr. 19:5,  

psalms 133:2  It is like the precious ointment apon thy head, that ran down apon thy beard, even Aarons beard, that went down to the skirts of his garnments.

How do these scriptures fit in with the others to keep from having contridictions? ???  Just trying to sort out the truth on this topic.  Thank you for you help.

God Bless,
Daniel

Bryan

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Re:beards
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2003, 11:09:33 PM »
i may be wrong, but i know this group is strait forward for the most part

Sounds like the Taliban to me!  At first I thought the question was some kind of joke.  You have to be kidding me.  It's a sin to shave???

what about lev 19:27  Ye shall not round thy corners of thy heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard

I think this is referring to a particular style of hair and beard that was worn by pagan priests.  The Israelites were not to wear their hair in this style.

Lev 21:5  They shall not make baldness apon there head, neither shall they shave off the corner of there beard, nor make any cuttings in there flesh.

Again, I think this is referring to pagan ritualistic dress, particulary with the reference to cutting the flesh.  It is interesting that Catholic monks adopted a hair style in which they shaved the tops of their heads and left the hair to grow around in a ring.  I forget what you call this hairstyle, but I believe it was adopted from pagan religions.  I think that is what God is warning Israel about.

I'm not sure about the reference to David's men.  It may have been a cultural thing that made them ashamed to be shaved.  I'm not sure.  But whatever group is preaching this nonsense, just stop listening to them!  There are many more important things to be doing to further the kingdom of Christ than to worry if shaving is a sin.

Nikki

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Re:beards
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2003, 05:02:20 AM »
 2 Samuel 19:24  And Mephibosheth the son of Saul came down to meet the king, and had neither dressed his feet, nor trimmed his beard, nor washed his clothes, from the day the king departed until the day he came again in peace.

I think that this is evidence that the cutting of the beard was normal routine for the people and not sinful. It doesn't mean they cut it all the way off, but they still cut it off. Which means there was no law against cutting it.

daniel brown

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Re:beards
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2003, 01:39:13 PM »
Sounds like the Taliban to me!  At first I thought the question was some kind of joke.  You have to be kidding me.  It's a sin to shave???                                                 their is no joke when it comes to finding out the truth to our heavenly fathers words, so dont even go there, every part of the bible is just as important as any other part. we are to try and learn as much as we can ,[as the lord sees fit]so we should strive to study every subject to learn the truth, if we are trying to help others , we need to be as good as we can be in every aspect of our lives, spiritualy, our dress our apperance in general, not what society thinks but what god says, and their may be many taliban going to heaven, not my desicion, god bless.

Mike Repass

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Re:beards
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2003, 01:39:13 PM »
I would say that the contradictions between my OT quotes and your OT quotes are a debate for the Scribes and Rabbi of old.
The following text says what I think you need hear better than I can say it:

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.   9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.   10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:   11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:   12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.   13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;   14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;   15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.   16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:   17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?   2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?   3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?   4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain.   5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?   6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.   7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.   8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.   9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.   10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.   11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.   12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.   13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:   14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.   15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.   16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.   17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.   18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.   19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.   20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.   21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.   22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.   23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.   24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.   25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

A study on Christ’s fulfillment of the law might help you out. Hope this helps.

M.R.

re4med

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Re:beards
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2003, 03:59:29 PM »
Quote
A study on Christ... fulfillment of the law might help you out. Hope this helps.

Explain.  What do you mean when you say that Christ "fulfilled the law".  ???

William F. Hill, Jr.
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Mike Repass

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Re:beards
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2003, 09:49:17 AM »
Forgive me if my statement was ambiguous. Here is what I meant.

In Matt. 5 Jesus makes the following statement:

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  

What does He mean by fulfil?
How do the words that follow in verse 18 agree with Paul's statement in Colossians 2:13 & 14?

Matt. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;  14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

How do the statements of Peter & James in Acts 15 agree with the statement in verse 19.

Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.   6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.   7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.   8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;   9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.   10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?   11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.  

Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:  14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.   15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,   16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:   17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.   18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.   19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:   20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.   21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.  

This an example and not meant to be exhaustive. What I was saying in making my statement was to study Christ's statement "He came to fulfil" out and see how in relates to the observance of shaving the beard and others like:

Lev. 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.    

Can we or can we not breed cattle or other animals and make or develop another breed?
Can we or can we not plant corn and potatoes and green beans in the garden being thy field?
Can we or can we not wear 50% polyester 50% cotton wrinkle free pants or do they have to be 100% either way?
Do will still sacrifice or do we not, it is part of the Mosaic Law?
Do we observe the ceremonies of Passover, Pentecost, and others or do we not?
Do we circumcise or do we not?

All these are answered when we know what Christ meant by Matt. 5:17.

And remember:
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.   20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.   21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;   22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:   23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;   24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:  


Main Entry: ful·fill
Variant(s): or ful·fil /fu(l)-'fil also f&(l)-/
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): ful·filled; ful·fill·ing
Etymology: Middle English fulfillen, from Old English fullfyllan, from full + fyllan to fill
Date: before 12th century
1 archaic : to make full : FILL <her subtle, warm, and golden breath ... fulfills him with beatitude -- Alfred Tennyson>
2 a : to put into effect : EXECUTE b : to meet the requirements of (a business order) c : to bring to an end d : to measure up to : SATISFY
3 a : to convert into reality b : to develop the full potentialities of
synonym see PERFORM
- ful·fill·er noun
- ful·fill·ment or ful·fil·ment /-m&nt/ noun

M.R.


re4med

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Re:beards
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2003, 07:35:13 AM »
OK  -  I am still not clear.  Please forgive me.   ::)

When you say that Christ fulfilled the Law does this mean that the law is now cast aside?  Are we to take our instructions from the New Testament alone? Please elaborate.


Mike Repass

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Re:beards
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2003, 10:05:42 AM »
My Quote:
A study on Christ's fulfillment of the law might help you out.


The word I used:
Fulfillment
·  (n.) Execution; performance; as, the fulfillment of a promise.
·  (n.) The act of fulfilling; accomplishment; completion; as, the fulfillment of prophecy.

Your Quote:
When you say that Christ fulfilled the Law does this mean that the law is now cast aside?


Not the word you used: Fulfilled.

Your Quote:
Are we to take our instructions from the New Testament alone?


2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:  17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

M.R.

re4med

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Re:beards
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2003, 11:05:57 AM »
Sematics only.

How would you then answer the verse in Matthew 5 that states:

Matt. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Note the term: fulfilled


 


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