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Author Topic: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins  (Read 14026 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2007, 11:16:19 AM »
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Here I don't agree because GT begins with the opening of the seals.

Ahh..so you think the white horse is Satan? 

The symbolism is found only in comparing scripture with scripture. Comparing one image of rider with another image of rider. Not comparing the image of a rider with the image of a beast. we have to have consistency throughout. Let's start by comparing the two riders. Does this rider in Revelation chapter six compare favorably to the "figures" of Satan that God inspires in scripture? No! Do they compare with the "figure" God inspires as representing Christ? Yes! Let's compare.

Revelation 6:2

    * "And I saw, and behold a White Horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

Revelation 19:11-12

    * "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a White Horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    * His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

The color white in the bible signifies righteous. The opening seal of first seal obviously took place at Pentecost when Christ started going forth conquering and TO conquer, spoiling people from Kingdom of Satan, made righteous IN Christ.  Thus the Church has been built over the last 2000 years!  Moreover, this also took place when God give power to Two Witnesses to bring Gospel to the world, made righteous of people coming out of among men, Revelation 11:3.  These SAME people are also indeed riding upon white horses along with Christ in Revelation 19:14.  The question is, if Christ and His righteous are the only ones seen in Scripture riding a white horse, why do you insist that Satan rides a white horse in the beginning of great tribulation period?  Satan is righteous?  The verse did not say that satan will look "like" white horse.  satan is angel of light, but never "is" a white horse in Scripture. Therefore, the opening of seven seals did not start at Great Tribulation period as some supposed, but at Pentecost!

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Your above explanation can also create here  more problems in understanding. If the killing of two witnesses resembles 'slept' then 5 foolish virgins also were killed. But then who kills who? If two witnesses are raised by  the Spirit of Life, then 5 foolish virgins also heard the midnight cry.

Not really. The scripture states that both wise and foolish virgins slept.  It is wise virgins with the oil that Satan was coming after, killing them (silence them). The foolish virgins slept anyway because they lack the oil.  They were not killed by Satan but tormented (Revelation 9:5).   Both the wise and the foolish virgins response to 'midnight cry' as far as abominations are concerned, however the wise virgins with the oil were specifically received the Spirit of Life for the purpose of discern the signs, and flee from church.  The foolish virgins does not receive Spirit of Life, but go to those who sell and buy instead. 

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

andreas

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2007, 05:46:59 PM »
All ten slept . We do not find the five foolish virgins asleep, while the five wise virgins are busily at work. All slept, and all were awakened by the news of the groom’s approach. The emphasis here is not  on working.  This is because our salvation is not the result of our works.

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2

andreas.
kai ean diabainhs dią udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Robert Powell

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2007, 08:32:06 PM »
From my studies of the scriptures I would say that all ten slept because they were "all negligent" in their duty. As Judy said, we are all human and even the disciples slept when they should have been watching. Yet, because they were elect, it wasn't counted to them sin in the book. So as I see it, the difference here is that five were elect, had the spirit of God, and so were equipped of that spirit to be enlightened and go to meet the bridegroom. The foolish five were not so equipped and so didn't have the spirit to find their way, until it was too late. That's the point. Even Judas wanted salvation when it was too late. The doors were shut, it was too late for these five foolish virgins.

 John 9:4
 "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work".

Some hear the cry that Christ's coming is nigh, but will not have the light to go out to meet him until it is too late. They are unprepared, perhaps because they follow their leaders, or they neglect studies or bible reading. Whatever the reason, they are not prepared. The parable is to show that some of the Church are not prepared for the cry, and tarry in the Church seeking to get equipped until it's too late. That's the way I see it.


dsouzaanthony

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2007, 12:57:32 AM »
Hi Erik,

You easily get upset over people who don't agree with your views.


Ahh..so you think the white horse is Satan? 

The symbolism is found only in comparing scripture with scripture. Comparing one image of rider with another image of rider.


I can also say the same thing with you because you are not comparing scripture with scripture when you try to enforce your view on 'Sprit of Life' that it enters the two witnesses to discern signs. Whereas, the Bible says:

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

This Spirit of Life has always been with the saints since their salvation. The same Spirit of Life also guarantees the redemption of the body:

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Re 11:3 ¶ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Ac 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The only time Spirit of Life entering the 'dead bodies' of two witnesses is at their resurrection and not before:

Re 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Re 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Mind you, the death of the two witnesses is related to the crucifixion of our Lord, the hour of darkness. You  may argue that it is only 'symbolic' death and therefore, the resurrection is also 'symbolic'. The symbolic 'death' is because the Body is powerless (as Jesus Christ hung powerless on the cross) as long as Satan has been given complete power by God in GT, which is also the hour of darkness for the whole world. Bible makes it clear in the Book of Daniel that the saints are given in satan's hand for the symbolic time period of 3-1/2 (whole GT period):

Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The saints receive the eternal Kindom only when Christ will come for the 2nd time.

Da 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
 22 Until the Ancient of days came
, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Therefore Rev 11:12-12 could only happen when their bodies are redeemed, if you consider that the Book of Revelation is not in chronology of events. If you try to force chronology to the seals, trumpets and vials in the Book of Revelation, then you will definitely be wrong. I've pointed out earlier that we can not put any chronology to the events:

Re 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Re 9:1 ¶ And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Re 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Re 9:13 ¶ And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
 14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
 15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

If you consider fifth trumpet comes before the sixth trumpet, you are  mistaken. Both are same events but with different pictures - one torments those without the seal and other to slay the 1/3rd who are believers.


You have also not compared 3-1/2 days of two witnesses lying dead to any other scripture but enforced the scriptures to mean what it can not mean. You have also not compared just what was sealed (7seals) before the Lamb opens the seals. It is just your opinion that GT begins from the 5th seal without Biblical proof.

But the Bible gives us this warning about anti-Christ, which is the 'first' warning to the disciples who were questioning Christ about the end times:

Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 4 ¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Just because Rev 19 portrays Christ on the white horse, it doesn't have to be the same in Rev 6:2.

Re 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Unlike Rev 19, Rev 6 gives no discription of Christ:

Re 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
 12  His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


So you will have to only assume that Rev 6:2 speaks of Christ, while the verse makes no such claims.

Coming back to the parable of 10 virgins:

Both the wise and the foolish virgins response to 'midnight cry' as far as abominations are concerned, however the wise virgins with the oil were specifically received the Spirit of Life for the purpose of discern the signs, and flee from church.  The foolish virgins does not receive Spirit of Life, but go to those who sell and buy instead. 

You say that the Spirit of Life enters the 5 wise virgins so that they hear the midnight cry. But the parable also says that ALL virgins heard the cry. You can't enforce something which is just not there in the parable. Besides, your use of the phrase 'Spirit of Life'  without comparing to any scripture in the Bible.

Mt 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.


Well, I'm not here to argue with you, knowing that I, myself have to learn a lot of things. I'm open for correction. There is no need for us to be upset over our disagreement on some issues. We don't have all the answers. We are all learning. If I've hurt you by any means, I apologize.

God bless,

Dsouzaanthony

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2007, 02:39:47 AM »
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The only time Spirit of Life entering the 'dead bodies' of two witnesses is at their resurrection and not before:

Re 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Mind you, the death of the two witnesses is related to the crucifixion of our Lord, the hour of darkness. You  may argue that it is only 'symbolic' death and therefore, the resurrection is also 'symbolic'. The symbolic 'death' is because the Body is powerless (as Jesus Christ hung powerless on the cross) as long as Satan has been given complete power by God in GT, which is also the hour of darkness for the whole world. Bible makes it clear in the Book of Daniel that the saints are given in satan's hand for the symbolic time period of 3-1/2 (whole GT period):

Time out. Let me ask you some questions:

After 1,260 days of testimony (church age), the Two Witnesses will be killed and lying dead in the city for 3-1/2 days.  Tell me what kind of death did Two Witnesses experience?

1.) Physical death?  (Not every Elects are physically dead in church, aren't we?)
2.) Spiritual death?  (It is biblically impossible IN Christ)

Both choices won't work with Revelation 11:8, so what kind of death did Two Witnesses experience before Spirit of life come upon them? What death will they resurrected FROM?

The answer is the death of the witnesses to Truth in the Church which is why the enemies REJOICE over the bodies of Two Witnesses. 

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Two Witnesses can no longer bring the gospel of life in this great city, which, spiritually speaking, is Sodom and Egypt. Their witness has been so effectively silenced in the Church by the false teachers, that their voice is not heard. It's as if they are dead.

Your position is incorrect to assume that Two Witnesses will remain dead in the great city the whole great tribulation period.  The death of Two Witnesses is not the time of abomination of desolation yet! Before abomination of desolation starts, the Spirit of life illustrates a Spiritual awakening of the faithful witnesses in the Churches.  To stand upon their feet illustrate that they are mobilization to come out of church with the ability to discern the signs of abomination of desolation in the church.  They are empowered by the Spirit of Life to again declare God's Word. But it will not be a word of Salvation like they used to before they were killed by Satan, but of blowing of the trumpet. In other words, a word of warning that desolation is nigh!  It is not Second Coming or rapture as most supposed, because there are still time for ONE HOUR of Judgment upon Babylon, which signifies a period AFTER Two Witnesses stood up:

Rev 11:11  And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13  And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10  Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

This is not the Last Day. There are still time for one symbolic hour for judgment to take place upon church while Two Witnesses watch from afar off.

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Da 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Satan prevailed against Saints until Second Coming as far as Salvation Witnessing is concerned! This has to do nothing with Elects departing out of church and Babylon being judged!

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Just because Rev 19 portrays Christ on the white horse, it doesn't have to be the same in Rev 6:2.

Re 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Unlike Rev 19, Rev 6 gives no discription of Christ:

Re 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
 12  His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

So you will have to only assume that Rev 6:2 speaks of Christ, while the verse makes no such claims.

Come on. Such interpretations of yours can be easily debunked.  For example, Christ has hair which is white like wool in Revelation chapter one, but it isn't mentioned in Revelation nineteen. Does that mean that Christ in Revelation chapter one is not Christ in Revelation 19?

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You say that the Spirit of Life enters the 5 wise virgins so that they hear the midnight cry. But the parable also says that ALL virgins heard the cry. You can't enforce something which is just not there in the parable. Besides, your use of the phrase 'Spirit of Life'  without comparing to any scripture in the Bible.


I will quote Tony Warren here, which he explains it better:

"...God declares to us that both the five wise, and five foolish virgins heard the cry, and arose and trimmed their lamps. So there is no difference there. God illustrates that the difference is not in their hearing, nor their rising up, but in the preparation (oil) they did (or did not) possess.

Matthew 25:3-7

    * "They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
    * But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    * While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
    * And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
    * Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps."

Oil is symbolic of the Spirit of God. Thus the wise virgins were "before" prepared of God and had sufficient Spirit to light their way that they could "see" to rise up and go meet the Lord (when that time comes), while the foolish virgins were unprepared (see verse three) and took no oil for their lamps, and thus could not "see." As we know, a lamp cannot light the way to the bridegroom without oil. It's just an empty canister. In other words, this is illustrating those in the Church who didn't have the Spirit to light their way to Christ. In other words, they were unsaved. Again, "many are called, but few are chosen." The foolish virgins had not the oil to be truly Saved where the Lord was a light unto their feet to guide them to rise up and seek the bridegroom. They were unprepared."

While the Wise Virgins were also guilty of sleeping along with the foolish virgins (Revelation 18:3), God has not forsaken them. When the time has come when God is about to judge Babylon the Great, He will 'resurrect' His Elects from 'death' in the church so they will 'see' abomination of desolation and prophesy to come out of church.  Revelation 11:11-13 will not talk about Second Coming or rapture, for these events are still part of second woe, under Sixth Trumpet.  The seventh trumpet which is the third woe yet to be sound, Revelation 11:14-15. 

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Robert Powell

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2007, 02:34:41 PM »
Time out. Let me ask you some questions:

After 1,260 days of testimony (church age), the Two Witnesses will be killed and lying dead in the city for 3-1/2 days.  Tell me what kind of death did Two Witnesses experience?

1.) Physical death?  (Not every Elects are physically dead in church, aren't we?)
2.) Spiritual death?  (It is biblically impossible IN Christ)

Both choices won't work with Revelation 11:8, so what kind of death did Two Witnesses experience before Spirit of life come upon them? What death will they resurrected FROM?

The answer is the death of the witnesses to Truth in the Church which is why the enemies REJOICE over the bodies of Two Witnesses. 


Good Point! I don't see how this could possibly be the resurrection at the second coming, since I think that we agree that they were not killed physically and weren't spiritually dead either. They were only symbolically dead. They were only dead in that they were powerless and couldn't bring life there anymore. That's why the people rejoiced. So their rise would have to be in that vein. In conjunction with their death, not in conjunction with the second advent resurrection to spiritual bodies.

So I agree, and really don't think it is consistent to say the people rejoiced over their death, which isn't spiritual death, and then claim their resurrection is spiritual resurrection to actual new bodies from that dead. So it has to be a raising from the same type of death that they suffered in the city. Right? A rising to depart from those streets. 




Erik Diamond

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2007, 03:20:13 PM »
Quote
So I agree, and really don't think it is consistent to say the people rejoiced over their death, which isn't spiritual death, and then claim their resurrection is spiritual resurrection to actual new bodies from that dead. So it has to be a raising from the same type of death that they suffered in the city. Right? A rising to depart from those streets.

Right.

There are several people who does not understand the kind of death Two Witnesses experienced in the streets of great city! They does not understand what testimony for 1,260 days signifies, or what 3-1/2 days of death means, and then ONE HOUR of judgment after resurrection of Two Witnesses with Spirit of Life means.  The death within context can't be physical death, nor spiritual death.  The enemies in the church does not jump in joy over the physical killings of the Saints nor the spiritually killings of the Saints.  Don't forget that the Elects were already sealed and protected by God before they were 'killed' by Satan.  So Satan can't kill us spiritually, right?  The only thing Satan can kill us is our testimony of Gospel/Salvation in the church. The church grew into apostasy because our witness fell upon deaf ears, and number of false prophets and christs coming in our churches.  The Elects was still going to church, and not really realize it. They might go there because of fellowship or 'obligation' as a Christian.  That is UNTIL Spirit of Life come upon them so they will start seeing abominations in their church and realize what they need to do.  Some Elects left right away while other Elects hesitated at first but eventually leave.  It is only by God's Spirit that will MOVE them to come out. Remember Lot?  Our depart and knowledge as a result of Spirit of Life are as a testimonies to enemies who beheld them, Rev 11:11. 

Also, I can see why some people believe that the 3-1/2 days found in Revelation 11:9,11 does covers the whole great tribulation period.  It is not the case.  Two Witnesses will not remain dead in city (church) for the whole great tribulation period until Christ return, because we must allow some time for judgment to take place upon the church with God's Elects already coming out!  That is why we need to understand what does 1,260th, 1,290th, and 1,335th represents. I will illustrate some here: 
____________________________ ____________________________ _______

The 1,260th day was the beginning of Great Tribulation period when Two Witnesses' testimony was finished. (5th Trumpet - 1st Woe)

....then 3-1/2 symbolical days later.........Two Witnesses killed in the city

The 1,290th day is Abomination of Desolation, Judgment of church, Spirit of Life upon Two Witnesses.....(6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe)

.... ONE symbolical HOUR later.......Two Witnesses already stand afar off, Rev 18

The 1,335th day will be the return of our King and the Rapture (7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe)

____________________________ ____________________________ ______

These are all symbolically.  It is not something we count with our calendar. 

Back to Ten Virgins..... 1,260th day is when ALL Virgins asleep (for 3-1/2 days) as Apostasy overtake churches. Then the Bridegroom comes on 1,290th day to cry that he is coming. He is coming to judge church. ALL Virgins awoke, but ones with oil will see the signs and find a way to go out to meet him. The foolish virgins overlooked the abominations in the church and continue to go buy and sell. They are not prepared for Christ. Then finally on 1,335th day, The Bridegroom arrives with wise virgins go with Him. 

You see, the parable of Ten Virgins talks about the WHOLE Great tribulation period starting with sleep of virgins (apostasy, 5th trumpet) then awake to cry and discern signs (judgment/desolation, 6th trumpet), then bridegroom appearance (second coming, 7th trumpet).  WOE!, WOE!, WOE!

Erik
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judykanova

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2007, 10:33:04 PM »


Back to Ten Virgins..... 1,260th day is when ALL Virgins asleep (for 3-1/2 days) as Apostasy overtake churches. Then the Bridegroom comes on 1,290th day to cry that he is coming. He is coming to judge church. ALL Virgins awoke, but ones with oil will see the signs and find a way to go out to meet him. The foolish virgins overlooked the abominations in the church and continue to go buy and sell. They are not prepared for Christ. Then finally on 1,335th day, The Bridegroom arrives with wise virgins go with Him. 

You see, the parable of Ten Virgins talks about the WHOLE Great tribulation period starting with sleep of virgins (apostasy, 5th trumpet) then awake to cry and discern signs (judgment/desolation, 6th trumpet), then bridegroom appearance (second coming, 7th trumpet).  WOE!, WOE!, WOE!


Erik,

I appreciate and have learned a great deal from your charts (in this and other threads), but I'm not so sure that the parable of th 10 virigns fits neatly into it.  In oher words, I don't think that this particular parable addresses church apostasy or the killing and resurrection of the two witnesses. 

Remember -- all 10 virgins left together, with no animosity between them, and  with the same intention of meeting the Lord.  They are differentiated from each other only with regards to the 5 foolish virgins' lack of oil to light the way and sustain them through the journey.  This parable speaks much more directly to biblical teachings about the importance of being in a constant state of readiness for Christ's second coming, and of making our "calling and election sure" -- which can only happen with the power of the Holy Spirit (oil) that saves and sustains us.

2Pe 1
4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


The 5 foolish virgins were negligent with regards to the state of their souls, as well as presumptuous with respect to how long the Lord would tarry.   Moreover, the last verse of this parable provides us with its primary 'lesson':

Mat 25
13  Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.



Which is echoed many times in the Bible including:

Mar 13
33  Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34  For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35  Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36  Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37  And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.


This last passage is interesting, in that (getting back to Reformer's question) all 10 virgins "slumbered and slept".  However, I think the context is different here in Mar 13:36, which refers to being spiritually asleep (dead), whereas I still believe that the parable of the 10 virgins is more akin to what Christ said to his disciples about "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak".

Mat 26
40  And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
41  Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.


I seems to me that it's this very fact -- that "the spirit is willing", which differentiates the wise virgins (all true believers), from the foolish virgin.  The wise virgins had been given a new Spirit (oil) at the point of their salvation, to sustain then through their journey, and to make them immediately ready to meet Christ, despite their physical need of sleep while Christ tarried.


judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

andreas

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2007, 01:33:31 AM »
 <<<Then the Bridegroom comes on 1,290th day to cry that he is coming.>>>

(Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Matthew 25:6 meshV de nuktoV kraugh gegonen idou o numfioV ercetai exercesqe eiV apanthsin autou

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Matthew 25.

I do not think the scriptures say that the bridegroom comes on 1290 day, to cry out, that He is coming.We are only told that, a cry is made,but we are given no explanation as to who makes the cry(kraugh.)

More importantly,why midnight?Because it is pointing to Judgement day,the last day.

29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. Exodus 12.

20 In a moment shall they die, and the people shall be troubled at midnight, and pass away: and the mighty shall be taken away without hand. Job 34.

The bridegroom comes on the last day,if you like to use symbolic numbers ,on the 1335 day.Nothing to say He comes on the 1290 day as well!

andreas.
kai ean diabainhs dią udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Robert Powell

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2007, 02:07:50 PM »

Remember -- all 10 virgins left together, with no animosity between them, and  with the same intention of meeting the Lord.  They are differentiated from each other only with regards to the 5 foolish virgins' lack of oil to light the way and sustain them through the journey.  This parable speaks much more directly to biblical teachings about the importance of being in a constant state of readiness for Christ's second coming, and of making our "calling and election sure" -- which can only happen with the power of the Holy Spirit (oil) that saves and sustains us.


Judy, I would certainly agree with you up to a point. But what I think you are overlooking is the journey "after" they are awakened by the cry.  Yes, I think part of the point is preparedness and making our calling and election sure. But the other part is what will happen if we only think we are saved. There is no question but that this cry is made before the Lord's return, else there would be no journey to seek oil after the cry is made. So the real substance of the parable is in alerting us that some in the Church (these are all Church people) will lack sufficient spirit to find their way when the call is made. They obviously couldn't find their way without it. And we see they will uselessly journey to seek to purchase that oil. And while they are on this journey, which is "after" this call is made, the door then is shut, and they are not allowed in. It's important to see that the parable is followed all the way through and we don't ignore the time line. 1.they were virgins, 2. After they were sleep they were called, 3 during the time of their journey "after" they were awakened, the door was shut. 4. They then came but it was too late. This is what I think most people are completely ignoring in the parable. I think Tony had a thread on this also (unfortunately I can't find it) where he made that point too. To be consistent, we have to account for the awakening, the journey to the merchants to get oil, and while they are gone, the door being shut. I see far too many people trying to cut that out or just lump it into one, as if it's just talking about Christ's return one day and some Christians are not ready. If that were the case, God would have just said some didn't have sufficient oil. Not that they asked the others and then went to those who bought and sold and during the time they were at the merchants, the door was shut. So I have a big problem with those who leave out parts when trying to interpret the parable.




judykanova

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2007, 11:58:41 PM »

Remember -- all 10 virgins left together, with no animosity between them, and  with the same intention of meeting the Lord.  They are differentiated from each other only with regards to the 5 foolish virgins' lack of oil to light the way and sustain them through the journey.  This parable speaks much more directly to biblical teachings about the importance of being in a constant state of readiness for Christ's second coming, and of making our "calling and election sure" -- which can only happen with the power of the Holy Spirit (oil) that saves and sustains us.


Judy, I would certainly agree with you up to a point. But what I think you are overlooking is the journey "after" they are awakened by the cry.  Yes, I think part of the point is preparedness and making our calling and election sure. But the other part is what will happen if we only think we are saved. There is no question but that this cry is made before the Lord's return, else there would be no journey to seek oil after the cry is made. So the real substance of the parable is in alerting us that some in the Church (these are all Church people) will lack sufficient spirit to find their way when the call is made. They obviously couldn't find their way without it. And we see they will uselessly journey to seek to purchase that oil. And while they are on this journey, which is "after" this call is made, the door then is shut, and they are not allowed in. It's important to see that the parable is followed all the way through and we don't ignore the time line. 1.they were virgins, 2. After they were sleep they were called, 3 during the time of their journey "after" they were awakened, the door was shut. 4. They then came but it was too late. This is what I think most people are completely ignoring in the parable. I think Tony had a thread on this also (unfortunately I can't find it) where he made that point too. To be consistent, we have to account for the awakening, the journey to the merchants to get oil, and while they are gone, the door being shut. I see far too many people trying to cut that out or just lump it into one, as if it's just talking about Christ's return one day and some Christians are not ready. If that were the case, God would have just said some didn't have sufficient oil. Not that they asked the others and then went to those who bought and sold and during the time they were at the merchants, the door was shut. So I have a big problem with those who leave out parts when trying to interpret the parable.



Robert,

I agree with your summary.  However, the intent of my last post was not to analyze the whole parable, but was in response to Erik to explain why I think this particular parable does not lend itself to his timechart and such things as the killing and resurrection of the two witnesses.  Also, Reformer posed a specific question in starting this thread regarding the meaning of why all 10 virgins slept, which I tried to refocus on.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Robert Powell

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2007, 09:05:59 AM »
Robert,

I agree with your summary.  However, the intent of my last post was not to analyze the whole parable, but was in response to Erik to explain why I think this particular parable does not lend itself to his timechart and such things as the killing and resurrection of the two witnesses.  Also, Reformer posed a specific question in starting this thread regarding the meaning of why all 10 virgins slept, which I tried to refocus on.

judy

 You are right Judy. I shouldn't read into your post what I have heard some others saying, and also the thread is "why are all ten virgins sleep," so I should stay focused. Sorry to get sidetracked.

I agree with your conclusion of why all virgins were sleep. It has to be their neglect. Just as the Apostles slept when Christ told them to watch. Isn't it funny how again and again in the bible we see the end time Church mirror Christ's death? I think that is the strangest thing in all this. God even says the two witnesses are killed in that great city where Christ was crucified. Isn't that strange the Apostles were sleep as the Christ was betrayed? And we have this sleeping of the virgins as the Church is betrayed? Maybe the connection between Christ and the Church is even deeper than we might think.


judykanova

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2007, 11:04:45 AM »

 You are right Judy. I shouldn't read into your post what I have heard some others saying, and also the thread is "why are all ten virgins sleep," so I should stay focused. Sorry to get sidetracked.

I agree with your conclusion of why all virgins were sleep. It has to be their neglect. Just as the Apostles slept when Christ told them to watch. Isn't it funny how again and again in the bible we see the end time Church mirror Christ's death? I think that is the strangest thing in all this. God even says the two witnesses are killed in that great city where Christ was crucified. Isn't that strange the Apostles were sleep as the Christ was betrayed? And we have this sleeping of the virgins as the Church is betrayed? Maybe the connection between Christ and the Church is even deeper than we might think.


Actually, I don't think that their sleeping was so much due to neglect, as it was the weakness of the flesh.   In Mark, it's put this way when Jesus found his disciplies sleeping when they were suppose to have been watching:

Mar 14
37  And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
38  Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.



Sorry that this was not made clearer.

judy


'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2007, 09:21:07 AM »
Quote
It seems to me God uses this image of sleeping in scripture to symbolize being dead. Alll the virgins (which symbolize all those of the Church) awake, but only five have the spirit to trim their lamps and go to meet the bridegroom. I think we all get how they trimed their lamps, but why were all sleeping prior to this cry of "the bridegroom is coming?" Any thoughts?

Hi Reformer,

I see the sleeping here as being in fornication with the whore.

1Th 5:6 ¶ Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
 7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.


Only the wise virgins who have the Spirit of God will discern this and repent of their sin by their action of coming out of the corporate church.

Ro 13:11 ¶ And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

No church was perfect in doctrine and had some false doctrines which were doctrines of men and the elect were a part of the physical representation of the kingdom of God( Corporate church) and so the elect have fornicated with her.

If we read the warning Christ gave to the church of Thyatira, He said Re 2:20 "Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

This is in line with with Re 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

The kings of the earth and the merchants are the elect and they will come out as they hear Christ's voice and will no longer partake of the Corporate church's sin.

Mt 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him

The elect sleeping is nothing new in the Scripture, When Christ was in agony His disciples slept.

Lu 22:45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, 46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

We can see this same language which Christ spoke of Great Tribulation time and His second coming.

Mr 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
 34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

This is what I see regarding the sleeping of the virgins.

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Re: The Parable Of The Ten Virgins
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2007, 08:27:06 AM »
Just as the Apostles slept when Christ told them to watch. Isn't it funny how again and again in the bible we see the end time Church mirror Christ's death? I think that is the strangest thing in all this.


 Bob, I have noticed this in scripture also. It's almost identical. The persecution, the reviling, the killing, it all adds up. The only difference I see is that the congregation of Christ's time was trying to be saved by their works, while the Church today for the most part relies upon grace. The rest is almost identical to when Christ came. Does this signal the soon return of Christ in his coming again?

 


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