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Author Topic: What is the Great Tribulation?  (Read 28871 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #105 on: May 24, 2016, 05:07:20 AM »
 )ditto(
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Reformer

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #106 on: June 26, 2016, 07:33:53 PM »
I would think that salvation will continue until the thousand years are finished.
Blessings,
Sandy               

My thoughts also.


Sounded like a plan to me. God's plan for the nations. And afterward, Satan is loosed to deceive them.


laurenp

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2016, 04:54:26 PM »
Well, I'm curious if there is anyone who does NOT believe we are currently passed the point of salvation, and in the great tribulation? As the evidence seems overwhelmingly to the contrary. Also curious if Christians are able to know *for certain* if indeed we are in this period or if salvation is over? I mean for certain, as in, does it say in the Word that Christians will be somehow enlightened to this fact? Not talking about knowing that the end is near based on the events in the church or world, and not talking about *thinking* or *believing* that we are past salvation or in the GT etc. I'm referring to those who claim to know for a certain biblical fact. I've heard some who preach that salvation is over as boldly as they can preach that Christ died for sinners. Is there scriptural support for this purported knowledge? I can certainly see how I and others *believe* we are in that time if not woefully close to it, but it's the "knowing for a fact" that makes me wonder if that's even possible. I know God said that he will inform his servants ahead of time before he acts, but does this equate to giving them the exact knowledge He himself has of the situation? Wasn't Christ referring to this exact subject when asked by his disciples when He would restore the Kingdom of Israel? In which He reminded them that the times and seasons are not for them to know, but are put into the Father's hands? That's what I always thought that verse meant. But please do correct me if I'm wrong in any of this!

Reformer

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2016, 05:00:29 PM »
Well, I'm curious if there is anyone who does NOT believe we are currently passed the point of salvation,

Just a clarification "I never said that."  I have no idea if the 1000 years the nations are not deceived (people are being saved) are over.

laurenp

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2016, 06:03:33 PM »
No I know you didn't :). I'm just thinking of people both on my Facebook and also those people on this forum back in 2003 or so who were boldly claiming it is over, and that once you see the signs you are basically assured by God that salvation has ended. Some went so far as to call those who still preach the gospel "false prophets". But I know that's taking it way too far and even if salvation were ended the gospel is still to be preached as the double edged sword that it is, to everyone's damnation. I'm just thinking of the more moderate people who simply claim that because of the signs we see, we can know for a fact that salvation is ended. Wondering if there's any actual scriptural backing for this.

Erik Diamond

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #110 on: June 28, 2016, 04:18:22 AM »
Quote
I have no idea if the 1000 years the nations are not deceived (people are being saved) are over.


Reformer, I do not think God wanted us to know whether thousand year of testimony unto salvation has ended. Or when Satan was loosened. Or when Two Witnesses have finished their testimony or being killed by the beast.  Most of us were still going to church when these happened.  Rather we were told that when Elect see the signs, or a "smoking" of church's burning, it is because it took place AFTER a period of Great Tribulation/apostasy (3-1/2 days) expired where Spirit of Life come upon Two Witnesses to stand upon their feet to prophesy Gospel once again from the death (silence).  However their prophecies will no longer have power to save anyone but in judgment. So from this time forth, many Elect will gradually realize that the judgment has ALREADY come aswe see the signs.
 
Based on what I am seeing today, it is my belief that the judgment has indeed come.  I can see that many people no longer be able to buy our merchandises anymore, because they are deceived, stubborn, no longer love the truth, or refuse to repent.  It is also important to notice that we see the rise of homosexuality all over the world, unlike before.  We can see how mortally bankruptcy many churches around you have become.  If these are not the signs yet, I do not know what is.

Rev 18:8-11 KJV
[8]  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
[9]  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
[10]  Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
[11]  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her;
for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Rev 18:15-19 KJV
[15]  The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
[16]  And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
[17]  For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
[18]  And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
[19]  And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Reformer, how will the Elect (kings of the earth) be able to say or prophesy that the one hour of judgment as come if they don't know when 1,000 years has expired? It does not make sense.  How will they know when judgment has come? Was it not when they "see" the "smoke" of church's "burning"? What smoke is it and where does it comes from? 


Rev 9:2
[2] And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


Rev 9:3
[3] And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

Rev_9:17-18
[17] And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
[18] By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

The power of the false prophets and christs (may they represents horses, frogs, locusts, etc.) is found in their mouths.  That is how they burn the city with it.  That is God's judgment of the whore that Two Witnesses/kings of the earth/merchants of the earth prophesy about.  The false prophets and christs are bringing fire, smoke and brimstone to the city and the smoke we can "see" is what make the city desolate.  The abomination of desolation.  So when Christ said in Matthew 24 when you therefore 'see' the abomination of desolation, which is the smoke that comes out of the burning city, flee. That is why we are standing afar off mourning over her because the enemies has robbed and spoiled the riches (gospel) of the city where no man can longer buy our merchandises of salvation. This is what prophet Ezekiel prophesied about:


Eze 38:11-13 KJV
[11]  And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
[12]  To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
[13]  Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Sheba, Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish may be the merchants of the earth. They are the Elect who can prophesy against the enemies for attacking the city that is no longer protected by God where they can spoil, take a prey upon, or carry away Gospel from the church. That is the smoking of the city burning. 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Erik Diamond

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #111 on: June 28, 2016, 04:22:07 AM »
I'm just thinking of people both on my Facebook and also those people on this forum back in 2003 or so who were boldly claiming it is over, and that once you see the signs you are basically assured by God that salvation has ended. Some went so far as to call those who still preach the gospel "false prophets".

Let me guess... one of them is Tony Silva, right?
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Eugene Coburn

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #112 on: June 28, 2016, 05:24:49 PM »
I can see that many people no longer be able to buy our merchandises anymore, because they are deceived, stubborn, no longer love the truth, or refuse to repent.

Yes, but many does not mean all. There may still be a few that are yet to be saved.


Quote
The power of the false prophets and christs (may they represents horses, frogs, locusts, etc.) is found in their mouths.  That is how they burn the city with it. 

I don't follow, since we've always had false prophets and false Christs. Paul said the antichrist was already there in his time. There may be more now, but that in itself is not reason enough to presume. Perhaps you are assuming too much.

Erik Diamond

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #113 on: June 28, 2016, 11:42:03 PM »
Quote
Yes, but many does not mean all. There may still be a few that are yet to be saved.

Rev 7:2-4 KJV
[2]  And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3]  Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
[4]  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Once all Elect has been sealed through the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished, there will not  be "few" left after this moment. Therefore, when God said that no man will buy His merchandises through his merchants, no one else will be saved.

Quote
I don't follow, since we've always had false prophets and false Christs. Paul said the antichrist was already there in his time. There may be more now, but that in itself is not reason enough to presume. Perhaps you are assuming too much.

Assuming too much? No I testify what Scripture says and it does confirms what I see.

2Th 2:3-4 KJV
[3]  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4]  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Mat 24:24-26 KJV
[24]  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25]  Behold, I have told you before.
[26]  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Did this verse talked about Paul's time?  1600AD?  No.  God is talking about how faithful Churches are taken over by false teachers to become unfaithful churches. Of course, we know that their false preaching was already at work at the time of Apostle Paul and it is at work NOW.  But the point is near the Second Coming, Christ warned that BECAUSE iniquity would ABOUND, the love of many shall wax cold. The apostasy within the Church where False Christs and Prophets (ie. smoke locusts) ABOUND and deceive many of the Church. This takes place after the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished and Satan coming out of bottomless pit.  This is a time which is much worse in compare to Paul's time. It is a time when false Christs and false prophets performs great signs and wonders to overcome church that it could deceive even the very elect if it is possible. Their doctrines sounds so good that many will give blessings to pastors and teachers who are actually pretenders themselves, because iniquity is REVEALED to God's Elect.  That is how I see Satan, THEE antichrist, being revealed through the false prophets and christs in the church today.  And not to mention the rapid proliferation of homosexuality. And the massive world-wide physical and spiritual oppression of Christianity that leads to the criminalization of Christianity unlike before in history with number of True Elect become smaller and smaller.   

Oh yeah, I do know based on my understanding of Scripture and what I actually see.

"Behold, I have told you before" - Jesus Christ (Matthew  24:25).
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Eugene Coburn

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #114 on: June 29, 2016, 08:20:32 AM »
Quote
There may be more now, but that in itself is not reason enough to presume. Perhaps you are assuming too much.

Assuming too much? No I testify what Scripture says and it does confirms what I see.


That in itself is an assumption. It confirms what you see, that there are false prophets and false Christs? There were those in the time of Paul also. So we're back where we started. You're assuming there are no more saved because what you see, you assume that is what the scripture is referring to.



Erik Diamond

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #115 on: June 29, 2016, 11:00:31 AM »
Quote
It confirms what you see, that there are false prophets and false Christs? There were those in the time of Paul also.

Obviously you did not read carefully what I wrote previously. You even did not answer my question. I will quote it here: 

Quote
Mat 24:24-26 KJV
[24]  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25]  Behold, I have told you before.
[26]  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Did this verse talked about Paul's time?

Did the CONTEXT of Matthew 24 talked about Paul's time?  Answer the questions then we will go from there.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

George

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #116 on: June 29, 2016, 03:45:54 PM »

Erik Diamond

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #117 on: June 29, 2016, 04:27:01 PM »
Quote
Erik, Read and educate yourself about the great tribulation.

As you should already know, George.  I will not read any link that promote false doctrines like pre-tribulation rapture, one man antichrist, 7 years peace treaty and so-called great tribulation, or 1,000 years of physical millennial kingdom in Jerusalem.  We do not teach nor support it here.     


 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Bunyan

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #118 on: July 02, 2016, 09:40:35 PM »
Read and educate yourself about the great tribulation.

https://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1324/will-the-church-go-through-the-tribulation-part-1

I've read the link. It is inconsistent, has no biblical facts to back up what the author says, and contradicts other parts of scripture. So education is only as good as the teacher.
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George

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Re: What is the Great Tribulation?
« Reply #119 on: July 28, 2018, 06:06:22 PM »
Quote
There may be more now, but that in itself is not reason enough to presume. Perhaps you are assuming too much.

Assuming too much? No I testify what Scripture says and it does confirms what I see.


That in itself is an assumption. It confirms what you see, that there are false prophets and false Christs? There were those in the time of Paul also. So we're back where we started. You're assuming there are no more saved because what you see, you assume that is what the scripture is referring to.


 )Goodpoint(     Correct-a-mundo!  Circular reasoning!

 


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