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Author Topic: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science  (Read 35029 times)

Blade

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Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« on: June 11, 2003, 08:06:16 AM »
Can one be a christian and believe in evolution? The reason I ask is that there are very few christians who do not believe in evolution, so if it is true that Christians don't believe in evolution, then there aren't many christians are there?

Personally, I find it hard to believe that christians can believe in evolution. Because that makes the whole history of Genesis a lie. That makes it a lie that there was Adam and there was eve in a garden. What do you think?


Jeff

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2003, 12:26:44 PM »
There is the doctrine of christian evolution that is starting to make headway in the church. It's a mix of evolution, but done by God. Theistic evolution is how they justify it. That God creatred everything, but he did it by evolution over a long period of time. Even many orthodox christians now believe this. Especially reformed.

judykanova

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2003, 02:09:20 PM »
I don't  see how anyone can claim to be a Christain and believe that this world and the creatures in it were created any other way than that recorded in the Bible.

There is also confusion between creation, as recorded in Genesis, and the built-in mechanisms and abilities that God provided from the beginning, that enable creatues to adapt to their environments.  This is sometimes referred to I believe as 'micro evolution' -- a term which can be misleading because a frog still remains a frog, even though there are different varieties that have adapted over time to their unique environments in order to survive.

Christains who try to reconcile the world's view with God's view, only end up corrupting the Word of God and themselves.  This type of  'joiniing' with the world, is the reason why God refers to such churches and so called Christians as 'harlots', who in the end will come to ruin.
The 'church', symbolized as a harlot, can be found many places in Scripture.  One of the most graphic is found in Ezekial 16, where apostate churches not only 'open their feet' to every worldly passerby, but do so at no charge,  in an attempt to satisfy their unsatiable appetite for fleshly/worldly things, forsaking their true calling and all that God has given them:

Ezek 16:14-41

14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was....
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,...
22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.
23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;)...
25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.
27 Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way.
28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
30 How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman;
31 In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;
32 But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!
33 They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom....
35 Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD:
36 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;...
38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare...
41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.



Let God be true, but every man a liar.(Rom 3:4)

judy

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matt205

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2003, 08:43:44 AM »
Judy, You are so right about that. I'm wondering what can we do to help teach that evolution in any form is an assult on God's creation. I know that only God can reveal truth, but since education by the media has taught people this lie, wouldn't education by the church against it bring many back to right thinking?

 Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Or are we simply in a time when God has given us up to these things?

Rebel

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2003, 12:30:16 PM »
Quote
I'm wondering what can we do to help teach that evolution in any form is an assult on God's creation. I know that only God can reveal truth, but since education by the media has taught people this lie, wouldn't education by the church against it bring many back to right thinking?

     If  all  Christians  did  their  homework  like  they're  s'posed  to  and  studied  the  Bible,  we  wouldn't  have  this  problem,  would  we?  But  many  of  us  just  want  to  take  other  people's  word  for  it  and  not  check  it  out  in  the  Bible  and  that's  why  we've  got  such  crazy  notions  going  around.  By  the  time  someone  comes  along  with  the  truth  it's  too  late.  I  guess  we  could  probably  help  slow  down  the  spread  of  false  doctrine  by  encouraging  people  to  study  the  Bible  for  themselves  like  the  Bereans  did.  

     These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.  
 Acts  17:11

     If you  study  the  Bible  long  enough  it  becomes  pretty  obvious  that  evolution,  no  matter  what  flavor  it  is,  is  false.  But  nobody  wants  to  study  the  Bible  anymore  because  it  is  "old,  outdated  .  .  ."  you  know.  But  God's  elect  know  that  the  Bible  never  grows  old!

     Grace  be  with  you  all,
                                           Rebel
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

bloodstone

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2003, 12:39:20 PM »
I remember seeing a Christian creationist web site a while back that had a lot of articles debunking evolution both by the bible and by science. It was loaded with information and counter articles to the lies that come out. I lost the link. Anyone know what the site was?


Christ_Alone

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2003, 12:47:10 PM »
I remember seeing a Christian creationist web site a while back that had a lot of articles debunking evolution both by the bible and by science. It was loaded with information and counter articles to the lies that come out. I lost the link. Anyone know what the site was?



I could have been Answers in Genesis, or Kent Hovind's site.  I dont have either link handy, but they're easy enough to find in any decent search engine.

Human evolution is a load of horse pie - sadly - alot of Christians are taught that the Bible actually supports it.  :-\

Folks really do need to study their Bibles more.
In His love... CA

andreas

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2003, 02:38:25 AM »
There is no such thing as evolution.We were created out of nothing by God ,to be inhabited by God,for God.You can put all the evidence you have on evolution in a coffin with plenty of room to spare.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

andreas

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kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

bloodstone

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Blade

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2003, 05:40:22 PM »
Can we find any evidence in the animal kingdom for a fire-breathing dragon?

Yes The Bombardier Beetle

The following description of one of God's fascinating creations was found in a book called The Collapse of Evolution by Scott Huse. Creatures like the bombardier beetle cause evolutionists to have cold sweats! Many other such examples are found in nature. They are reported in various books which critically investigate the evolutionary hypothesis. The bombardier beetle is a small insect that is armed with a shockingly impressive defense system. Whenever threatened by an enemy attack, this spirited little beetle blasts irritating and odious gases, which are at 212 degrees F. out from two tail pipes right into the unfortunate face of the would be aggressor.

 Dr. Wermann Schildknecht, a German chemist, studied the bombardier beetle to find out how he accomplishes this impressive chemical feat. He learned that the beetle makes his explosive by mixing together two very dangerous chemicals (hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide). In addition to these two chemicals, this clever little beetle adds another type of chemical known as an inhibitor. The inhibitor prevents the chemicals from blowing up and enables the beetle to store the chemicals indefinitely. Whenever our beetle friend is approached by a predator, such as a frog, he squirts the stored chemicals into the two combustion tubes, and at precisely the right moment he adds another chemical (an anti-inhibitor). This knocks out the inhibitor, and a violent explosion occurs right in the face of the poor attacker.

Could such a marvelous and complex mechanism have evolved piecemeal over millions of years? The evolutionist is forced to respond with a somewhat sheepish "yes," but a brief consideration of this opinion will reveal its preposterous nature. According to evolutionary "thinking" there must have been thousands of generations of beetles improperly mixing these hazardous chemicals in fatal evolutionary experiments, blowing themselves to pieces. Eventually. we are assured, they arrived at the magic formula, but what about the development of the inhibitor? There is no need to evolve an inhibitor unless you already have the two chemicals you are trying to inhibit. On the other hand. if you already have the two chemicals without the inhibitor, it is already too late, for you have just blown yourself up. Obviously, such an arrangement would never arise apart from intelligent foresight and planning. Nevertheless, let us assume that our little beetle friend somehow managed to simultaneously develop the two chemicals along with the all- important inhibitor. The resultant solution would offer no benefit at all to the beetle, for it would just sit there as a harmless concoction. To be of any value to the beetle, the anti-inhibitor must he added to the solution.

So, once again, for thousands of generations we are supposed to believe that these poor beetles mixed and stored these chemicals for no particular reason or advantage until finally, the anti- inhibitor was perfected. Now he is really getting somewhere! With the anti-inhibitor developed he can now blow himself to pieces, frustrating the efforts of the hungry predator who wants to eat him. Ah yes. he still needs to evolve the two combustion tubes, and a precision communications and timing network to control and adjust the critical direction and timing of the explosion. So, here we go again; for thousands of generations these carefree little beetles went around celebrating the 4th of July by blowing themselves to pieces until finally they mastered their new found powers. But what would be the motivation for such disastrous, trial and error, piecemeal evolution? Everything in evolution is supposed to make perfect sense and have a logical purpose, or else it would never develop. But such a process does not make any sense at all, and to propose that the entire defense system evolved all at once is astronomically improbable, if not impossible. Yet, nature abounds with countless such examples of perfect coordination. Thus, we can only conclude that the surprising little bombardier beetle is a strong witness for special creation, for there is no other rational explanation for such a wonder. (Scott Huse, The Collapse of Evolution, pp. 78-79)

Reformer

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2003, 08:04:49 AM »
Blade, interesting post. Our God is a Glorious God isn't he. That's why scripture says that they (the unbelievers) have no excuse for their unbelief, because creation itself testifies to God.

 Ro 1:20  
  "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

Layla

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2003, 02:46:33 PM »
Greetings

I am posting this because I thought it was worthy reading.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/bombardier.html

I hope you don't think just because I have posted an article with an opposing view that I am an evolutionist as I believe the Word of God as written is truth and that God is the creator of all things.  However, I found these thoughts from the author thought provoking as well as his conclusions:

"Some people's belief is that the bombardier beetle's defense, whether reflexive or not, shows God's purpose. But claiming to know the mind of God is a form of hubris. The Bible makes it clear (for example, Job 37:5, Eccl. 11:5, Is. 55:8) that we can't understand God's ways.

For many creationists, purpose leads to an inextricable contradiction. They say the beetle's defense mechanism was designed, but designed for what? They also say that death wasn't part of the original design, but came later with original sin [Morris, 1985, p. 211]. If the bombardier beetle's defense was part of the original creation, it had no purpose; if it came later, it wasn't designed. And the problem involves more than their defense mechanism. All bombardier beetles are predators, and are thus themselves agents of death. Even as larvae, they are predaceous; at least two species are ectoparasitoids of the pupae of other beetles, slowly devouring and ultimately killing their helpless hosts [Erwin, 1967]. Was that aspect of its life cycle designed with the rest of the beetle?"


Conclusions

"Do bombardier beetles look designed? Yes; they look like they were designed by evolution. Their features, behaviors, and distribution nicely fit the kinds of patterns that evolution creates. Nobody has yet found anything about any bombardier beetle which is incompatible with evolution.

This does not mean, of course, that we know everything about the evolution of bombardier beetles; far from it. But the gaps in our knowledge should not be interpreted as meaningful in themselves. Some people are apparently uncomfortable with the idea of uncertainty, so uncomfortable that they try to turn the unknown into the unknowable. There has never been any evidence that bombardier beetles could not have evolved, but just because they couldn't explain exactly how the beetles evolved, lots of people jumped to the conclusion that an explanation was impossible. In fact, their conclusion says a lot more about themselves than about the beetles. To make such a conclusion based only on a lack of knowledge is a kind of arrogance.

Does evolution disqualify an intelligent designer? A lot of people reject the idea of evolution because they think it takes away any role for God to play in the creation of life. Such is the case, however, only for people who require God's role to fit certain narrow preconceptions of what "intelligent design" must mean. Millions of people around the world have no trouble believing in God and accepting evolution at the same time. Evolution only contradicts a man-made God that operates under man-made constraints.

Finally, remember that the general arguments used here apply to a lot more than bombardier beetles. Creationists have argued for an appearance of design in everything from bacteria flagella to butterfly metamorphosis. Those arguments all share the same fallacies; they are all based on a combination of ignorace combined with a concept of design that is indistinguishable from evolution. If a kind of design incompatible with evolution were found in biology, nobody would be more excited than the professional biologists. As yet we haven't found such a design."


Peace,
Layla

David Knoles

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2003, 03:14:33 PM »
Quote
They also say that death wasn't part of the original design, but came later with original sin [Morris, 1985, p. 211]. If the bombardier beetle's defense was part of the original creation, it had no purpose; if it came later, it wasn't designed.

Well that's just plain stupid. excuse my bluntness. It's a straw dummy. God knew death was coming and gave the beatle a defense, that's all. God is not surprised by anything. Anyone who thinks that is just plan foolish. Just as he gave man the ability to feel pain and so know to remove his hand from the fire. This is not a good point, this man's reasoning is just plain stupid (in my view). Oh the great deceiver is always at work on the web.

 2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,


David Knoles

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Re: Evolution of Man Vs The Bible and Science
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2003, 03:19:51 PM »
Quote
I am posting this because I thought it was worthy reading.

Yeah, like the Athiests manual is worth reading, and the book of mormon is worth reading, and the catholic catechisms, and the book of death, the Koran, life of Ghandi, et al. they are all worth reading if you take God out of the picture, foreget about what the bible says, and think like the world.  )S_Confused(

 


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