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Author Topic: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?  (Read 1933 times)

Erik Diamond

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Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« on: October 13, 2005, 12:30:24 AM »
I was studying the story about Lot in Genesis 19, to see if I could compare it with Matthew 24, Revelation 18, and related verses.  I would like to know your thought about it.   
 
Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

Gen 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:

Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast showed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:

Gen 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.

Gen 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.

Gen 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.

Gen 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

Well, I think we can compare the judgment of Sodom and other cities with the fall of Babylon in Revelation 18.  What interested me about Genesis 19 is that God first ordered Lot and his family (wife and two daughters) to flee to "mountain" (similiar with, flee to mountain in Matthew 24?).  Lot, a righteous man, appeared t obe hesiated at first, and asked God to allow him to flee to a small one - Zoar, where God will not destory.  I am curious if anyone here can offer explain the significaiton about Zoar, being little one? Now, few verses later, this one caught my eyes:

Gen 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

After Lot entered Zoar, he became uncomfortable with Zoar.  He decided to leave Zoar and head out to mountain as Lord commanded.  It is because Lot was afraid that the city of Zoar might be destoryed as well. 

I might be wrong, but I will share what I think about this story to see if you can give some feedback.  Lot, like the Elects, understood that we need to depart out of city (Babylon) and was ordered to flee to mountain.  Maybe for some elects, they hesitated at departing out church completely, but instead going to other church or small fellowships.  "Isn't it a little one?".   After experience these fellowship, and feel uncomforotable and believe that they are ripe for judgment as well. So they 'depart to mountain'.  I have failed to about the fate of Zoar later on.

What I like to know if Lot's detailed depart have any relationship with our depart out process?

What do you think? 

Peace,

Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

kohathe

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Re: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 08:32:39 AM »
Hi, Erik.  That is an interesting observation.  I also have thought about the story of Lot and why he fled to Zoar instead of fleeing to the mountain as he was commanded.  He fled to Zoar because he felt he didn't have enough time to flee to the mountain, since God's wrath was already falling upon the cities of Sodom and Gammorah, right?  It's interesting that in Matthew 24, while God commands the true believers to flee to the mountains, he also warns, pray that your flight be not in winter neither in Sabboth.  I think that God did not want us to flee to the mountains, until he saw fit.  There would be a time when we could flee to the mountain.  Just like Lot did not flee to the mountain right away, he fled to Zoar first. 

But I do find it interesting that you feel that Zoar could represent "pseudo churches, and fellowships".  But where else in the Bible can we find verification or comfirmation for this? 


Erik Diamond

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Re: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2005, 10:14:14 AM »
Gen 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.

Gen 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

It might be true that Lot did not feel that he have enough time to flee to mountain before God pour his judgment. He asked, instead of fleeing to mountain, he wanted to go to Zoar, a little one. God agreed and said that he will not start His judgment until Lot 'entered' Zoar first.  I wondered if it has any spiritual meaning?

God clearly that He wanted us to flee to the mountains. Over period of time, all of His Elects will eventually will end up upon his Mountain as his judgment are in process.

I just wanted to know what people here think what the meaning of Zoar and her relationship to Elects during the Great Tribulation.

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Sandy

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Re: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 01:27:08 PM »
Erik,

I see another connection with Lot and Rev. 11:12  "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither.  And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."

Notice how these witnesses were carried to heaven by the power of God.  They could not go without Him taking them.  We see a similar senario in the story of Lot in Genesis 19:16  "And while he (Lot) lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of the two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him:  and they (the angels of the Lord) brought him forth, and set him without the city."

Lot, his wife and daughters did not flee from the city, they were taken from the city because they lingered there.  The reason the Lord inteceded was mercy.  Just as the Lord showed mercy unto Lot and led him to safety, so too the Lord will show mercy to His elect at the end of time, and bring His people out of harms way before He casts His wrath upon the reprobate church and world.  Just as Lot remained in the city until the very last moment, so too there will be believers in the churches at the end of time.  And these elect of God will NOT come under judgment or the wrath of God because they did not depart from there.

Sandy   

Erik Diamond

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Re: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2005, 05:41:25 PM »
I agree with you Sandy, I was hoping to see if you see any role that Zoar with our time? First to Zoar then mountain.

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

andreas

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Re: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2005, 02:18:13 AM »
I like to digress if i may,and talk about the days of Noe and the days of Lot,cause they may have a bearing on the issue.

 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luke 17:26-29

Why do we have the days of Noe and the days of Lot? Why two days? Is there a difference?
 The days of Noe symbolise universal judgement,the end of the world,while the days of Lot symbolise local judgement.To have the universal judgement we have to have the local judgement first.

 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14

As the gospel is preached around the world,judgement occurs at a local level,and when it has been preached to all the world,then the end will come on judgement day.First local judgement ,then judgement day.

andreas.
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Melanie

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Re: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 04:22:10 AM »
Well, I think we can compare the judgment of Sodom and other cities with the fall of Babylon in Revelation 18.  What interested me about Genesis 19 is that God first ordered Lot and his family (wife and two daughters) to flee to "mountain" (similiar with, flee to mountain in Matthew 24?).  Lot, a righteous man, appeared t obe hesiated at first, and asked God to allow him to flee to a small one - Zoar, where God will not destory.  I am curious if anyone here can offer explain the significaiton about Zoar, being little one? Now, few verses later, this one caught my eyes:

Peace,
Erik Diamond

Erik,
   In reading this I agree with you. I definitely think that there is a very strong connection between Zoar, God's command to the church, and the church eventually following that command to the letter. First God commands his servant Lot to flee from Sodom, and in Revelation God uses Sodom as a reference for the church.

"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Revelation 11:7-8"


The church God says is spiritually Sodom, so there's that connection. Second God tells Lot to flee to the mountain, again connecting what God says to his church when they see such abominations.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Matthew 24:15-16"


Third He commands lot and family not to look back, and Christ warns the church of that as well.

"And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. Luke 9:6"


Fourth Lot didn't immediately do what God had commanded and go directly to the mountain. Instead he went to Zoar. I looked it up and Zoar means little, which goes along with what Lot said.

"Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. Genesis 19:20"


My thought on this Zoar is that it was near Sodom, but not Sodom, so Lot thought this little city might be safe from judgment. But that's not what God commanded Lot to do, right? I think the analogy is that Christians leave a church that has a lot of abomination in it as Sodom, and wanting fellowship they go to a church near Sodom but with little abominations or lesser abominations in it and they think they are safe. Then like Lot they come to the realization that they have to leave that church of lessor evil as well. Lot eventually left that city as required of God and fled to the mountain and lived in a cave. Don't you think the cave would represent being away from all cities in solitude with God on the mountain?

Do you agree or disagree that could be it? I see we're pretty much on the same page.

Walt Lee

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Re: Is there a Depart out of the Church Connection in Zoar?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2018, 05:12:40 PM »
Quote
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luke 17:26-29

Melanie,
   Also when the believers are called to come out of that great city that is spiritually as Sodom, God will also rain fire on it just as in the days of Lot. And like with lot, none of the people of that city know anything about it. They are eating and drinking like everything is fine while they are set on fire as judgment. Those standing away from her cry for her.

Revelation 18:8
"Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."

Revelation 18:18
"And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!"

As God rained fire on Sodom, so on Babylon as judgment.

 


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