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Author Topic: Who Is The Antichrist  (Read 15344 times)

Fred

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2014, 12:51:50 AM »
Fred,

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

This is speaking about Judas right? If so, then your one man antichrist is Judas, the son of perdition. But that can't be since the antichrist is present at the end of the world.

Therefore, son of perdition, has a wider meaning then what you believe.

Could Judas be the antichrist? You have to admit that it is certainly possible. At the very least, the Scripture talks of Judas the same way that it talks about the antichrist as the Son of Perdition. That would indicate that he is. Here is what one of your great Reformer Arthur W. Pink said:

"In John 17:12 we have a word which, more plainly still, shows that the Antichrist will be Judas reincarnated, for here he is termed by Christ "The Son of Perdition". But first let us consider the teaching of Scripture concerning Judas Iscariot. Who is he? He was a "man" (Matt. 26:24). But was he more than a man? Let Scripture make answer. In John 6:70 we read, "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a Devil?" It is hardly necessary to say that in the Greek there are two different words for "Devil" and "demon". There are many demons, but only one Devil. Further, in no other passage is the word "devil" applied to any one but to Satan himself. Judas then was the Devil incarnate, just as the Lord Jesus was God incarnate. Christ Himself said so, and we dare not doubt His word."

Are you smarter, wiser and more studied than Arthur W. Pink?

Tony Warren

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2014, 10:41:35 AM »
>>>
Could Judas be the antichrist?
<<<

The antichrist? ...No.

A antichrist? Most certainly. For God's authoritative word declares that there are many antichrists.


Quote
>>>
You have to admit that it is certainly possible.
 <<<

No, I'm sorry, I don't have to admit that because I don't believe that. e.g. Judas was a son of perdition, not thee son of perdition. We are sons of God, but not thee Son of God.


Quote
>>>
At the very least, the Scripture talks of Judas the same way that it talks about the antichrist as the Son of Perdition.
<<<

Of course. We are all in that sense all either sons of God or sons of perdition. If you think there is only one antichrist, then you're not really reading scripture carefully, you are listening to the words and doctrines of men, rather than the witness of the words of God.


Quote
>>>
That would indicate that he is.
<<<

No more than Christ calling Peter Satan would indicate that he was (Mark 8:33).


Quote
>>>
Here is what one of your great Reformer Arthur W. Pink said:
<<<

Once again, it's already been said that this is precisely why we don't listen to the witness of the words of men if they don't agree with the words of God. Be they Reformed, Baptist, Presbyterian or any other group of theologians. We listen to the witness of the word of God, which is infallible. Not to men attempting to explain away scripture, but scripture itself is the ultimate authority of the true child of God.

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Peace,
Tony Warren
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aquatic

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2014, 10:06:48 AM »
Fred,
Scripture says reincarnation will not happen.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So, No. Judas will not be reincarnated.




Fred

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2014, 01:00:36 PM »
Fred,
Scripture says reincarnation will not happen.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So, No. Judas will not be reincarnated.

Aquatic,
    I can understand you thinking I am not being biblical, but what about what Arthur W. Pink wrote? You seem to be ignoring that? Is he making sense with that declaration? If he is, what is the difference between him saying it and me saying it? If it's biblical for him, then you have to admit that it's biblical for me. You can't have different rules for different people.

If we're all reading the same bible and Arthur W. Pink and myself come to a different conclusion, how can you say Arthur W. Pink and I are wrong and you are right? If he takes the bible seriously about the son of perdition, then so do I.

Patiently awaiting your answer.



Fred

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2014, 01:05:09 PM »
Quote
>>>
You have to admit that it is certainly possible.
 <<<

No, I'm sorry, I don't.



So then, Arthur W. Pink and I am wrong and you and Aquatic are right? I'm using Arthur to demonstrate the fallacy of this idea that only unbiblical people hold to this belief.


Nikki

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2014, 11:45:21 AM »
So then, Arthur W. Pink and I am wrong and you and Aquatic are right? I'm using Arthur to demonstrate the fallacy of this idea that only unbiblical people hold to this belief.

Hey everyone, did Arthur Pink really say that?


Fred

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2014, 02:30:54 PM »
So then, Arthur W. Pink and I am wrong and you and Aquatic are right? I'm using Arthur to demonstrate the fallacy of this idea that only unbiblical people hold to this belief.

Hey everyone, did Arthur Pink really say that?

Of course it's true. It's not hard to goggle it. That's why Aquatic won't respond, because he can't refute it.

He also knows as well as I do that many of the great reformed theologians such as Charles Hodge, John Murray and others, affirm the ethnic future of the nation Israel. Even some Amillennialists (Anthony Hoekema, etc.) affirm that their eschatology does not exclude a future for national Israel. So even they are open to that possibility, unlike those here.

So they just ignore my questions to act as if only Dispensationalists affirm this. The only one here who will answer a direct question is Tony.  The rest either call names or post and run, because they can't answer. So much for honest discussions.

SavedByGrace

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2014, 02:00:42 PM »
Fred,

We are not here to discuss what you or different people say or think, but to discuss what the Scripture says. 

Your arguments do not deserve a response because they are not based on the Bible but on men.

Bill

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Arnold

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2014, 05:04:38 PM »
So then, Arthur W. Pink and I am wrong and you and Aquatic are right? I'm using Arthur to demonstrate the fallacy of this idea that only unbiblical people hold to this belief.

Hey everyone, did Arthur Pink really say that?

Hi Niki, yes Arthur Pink did write that.  But that's immaterial.

Reformer

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2014, 12:35:42 AM »
Hey everyone, did Arthur Pink really say that?

Yes, he wrote that. But that's exactly the point that Tony has been making here again and again and again. You will notice that every single person who comes to this forum with another doctrine doesn't defend his position by scripture, but by name dropping where he says this person wrote this, and this other reformer said that, and this theologian was quoted as saying something else. They don't use scripture, they use other men's words in an attempt to show themselves correct. But a Christian who rejects authority of the word for the authority of men is no Christian at all. Here's how the typical discussion goes.

 Tony "the Word of God says the kingdom is taken from you and given to another, and let no fruit grow on thee forever."
 
 Fred: "Even Charles Hodge says that the Kingdom will be restored to the Jews."
 
 Tony: "The Word of God says that He is not a Jew who is one outwardly."
 
 Fred: "Not true, Arthur Pink says the true Jews will always be the nation of Israel and he understands the book of Romans to mean that."
 
 Tony: "The Word of God says the Remnant are saved and so God has not cast off His people."
 
 Fred: "Not true, John Walvoord says if the nation of Israel is not restored, God has cast off his people."
 
 Tony: "The Word of God says all unsaved people are the children of the devil, and thus sons of perdition."
 
 Fred: "Arthus Pink says Judas is the son of perdition to be raised up and rule in the church later on."
 
 Do you see the pattern here? What it shows is that he cannot support his doctrine by scripture alone as Tony can, so he must resort to the "look at what this Christian says" instead of look what the bible says. The sad thing is that this tactic actually works on a lot of Christians, because it doesn't require them to do anything but agree that it sounds right.

Here's Christ's words, "Be Not Deceived!"

Reformer

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2014, 12:42:43 AM »
Hi Niki, yes Arthur Pink did write that.  But that's immaterial.

 &TY immaterial, irrelevant, inconsequential,  extraneous,  beside the point, neither here nor there, makes no difference, et al.

 The relevant question is, what does the Bible say?

aquatic

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2014, 08:40:06 AM »

Could Judas be the antichrist? You have to admit that it is certainly possible. At the very least, the Scripture talks of Judas the same way that it talks about the antichrist as the Son of Perdition. That would indicate that he is. Here is what one of your great Reformer Arthur W. Pink said:

"In John 17:12 we have a word which, more plainly still, shows that the Antichrist will be Judas reincarnated, for here he is termed by Christ "The Son of Perdition". But first let us consider the teaching of Scripture concerning Judas Iscariot. Who is he? He was a "man" (Matt. 26:24). But was he more than a man? Let Scripture make answer. In John 6:70 we read, "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a Devil?" It is hardly necessary to say that in the Greek there are two different words for "Devil" and "demon". There are many demons, but only one Devil. Further, in no other passage is the word "devil" applied to any one but to Satan himself. Judas then was the Devil incarnate, just as the Lord Jesus was God incarnate. Christ Himself said so, and we dare not doubt His word."

Are you smarter, wiser and more studied than Arthur W. Pink?

No I'm not, but I believe he was wrong. I don't see Judas as the Devil incarnate. There is nothing in scripture to say that. Was he born as Judas? If Satan is Judas, then how was Satan tempting Christ in the wilderness at the same time? That makes Satan omnipresent like God. There is no scriptural evidence that Satan can do that. Furthermore, look at this verse:

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

That reads to me like two different persons. The devil and Judas. They can't be as one. Just as Tony pointed out that Peter is not Satan, because Christ called him that. That is a wild reading of scripture in my opinion.


Drew

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2014, 02:45:06 PM »

Please read the truth of Dispensationalism at a respected Reformed site, rather than here at a biased one.

http://www.the-highway.com/Scofield.html

The Highway is a long standing respecatble Reformed site that doesn't condemn other religions as Dispensationalism.

 :hammerhead: The typical attitude now days towards false doctrines, teachers and teachings. To just go along to get along, and give them the merit that they do not deserve. How sad. What's that supposed to be, for education? To give a platform to scofield and his ilk is unconscionable for a Reformed Christian to do.

You are so judgmental against other reformed christians who don't believe as you do. His ilk? That's harsh. Maybe he just understands that Scofield makes some good points and he leaves it up to each individual christian to decide for themselves if his doctrine holds true. And a lot have decided that it does, so your opinion is again in the minority. I applaud the site because they are reformed christians who are open minded rather than condemn dispensational christians and stick their heads in the sand.

Melanie

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2016, 05:06:26 AM »
You are so judgmental against other reformed christians who don't believe as you do. His ilk? That's harsh.

Drew, Scofield and his ilk are false prophets, they deserve no respect in the church of Christ. As far as sites that publish his works thinking he makes good points, believing we should leave it up to each individual christian to decide for themselves if his doctrine holds true, my belief is that this is foolhearty. That's like saying Satan has some good points so I'll publish his works. Is that Christian or wise? I wouldn't think so.

Dispensational doctrine  aside, the man of sin is not a particular man who will come to power, but is talking about any false teacher as the man of sin.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Who Is The Antichrist
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2016, 01:15:56 PM »
 :amen:
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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