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Author Topic: The Second Death  (Read 1104 times)

Nikki

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The Second Death
« on: July 30, 2005, 01:12:22 PM »
I have been searching through the scriptures and would like some input on certain terms. The term second death implies a first death. But what is the first death, sinvce it is not mentioned specifically? I am stuck between two answers. #1. The death in Adam. and #2. The death of the body.  Can anyone shed some light on this problem for me? Or perhaps they are both related.


andreas

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2005, 05:36:08 PM »
<<<I have been searching through the scriptures and would like some input on certain terms. The term second death implies a first death. But what is the first death, sinvce it is not mentioned specifically? I am stuck between two answers. #1. The death in Adam. and #2. The death of the body.  Can anyone shed some light on this problem for me? Or perhaps they are both related.>>>


And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die".Genesis 2:16

In the Garden of Eden, God told Adam that if he ate of the forbidden fruit, he was going to die on that same day, but as we  know, Adam did not die physically the same day, and was not physically buried in a physical tomb in the Garden.
Did God lie to Adam when He told him that he would die on the same day he ate of the tree? No . God did not lie, and Adam did die! The fact is that the First Death is not physical death, but Spiritual Death. In the same manner, the first resurrection is not physical resurrection but Spiritual Resurrection.
The First death came through Adam.  When we are born of the flesh, we partake in Adam's death, we become dead in Adam. We are counted as being dead in Adam.

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, for that all have sinned". Romans 5:12

"Therefore, as through one man's offense judgement came to all men, resulting in condemnation".Romans 5:18

Even though we were not at the Garden  when Adam sinned and died, we are still dead in him in the first death. Every human being becomes a participant in such death by physical birth,  imputed sin.  At the time of birth, a newborn, becomes a participant of the sin Adam committed thousands of years ago, therefore he is spiritually dead even seconds after being born! This newborn baby is identified by physical birth to Adam and takes part in Adam's sin. That is what Paul says ,

  "For as in Adam all die…" 1 Corinthians 15 :22

 "For since by man  came death…" 1 Corinthians 15:21

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.  But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many". Romans 5 :14-15

 

First Death is not physical death, but Spiritual Death.

andreas.
kai ean diabainhs di¢ udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Brudda

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2005, 12:47:13 PM »
Quote
author=Nikki link=topic=1313.msg13326#msg13326 date=1122743542]
I have been searching through the scriptures and would like
some input on certain terms.
The term second death implies a first death. But what is the first death, sinvce it is not
mentioned specifically? I am stuck between two answers. #1. The death in Adam. and #2.
The death of the body.  Can anyone shed some light on this problem for me? Or perhaps
they are both related
[/color]

Second death is a figure of speech described as the Lake of fire in
Rev.20:11-15, meaning eternal destruction from the presence of God.
After life, there is no more death and it is appointed for man to die once
only.

All the unsaved of all times will be resurrected at the end of Christ's
millennial kingdom, judged at the Great White Throne judgment,
and then cast alive into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:11-15).
They will be given bodies that will last forever, but bodies that are
sinful and subject to pain and suffering. Like the Devil and his angels,
they will exist forever in the Lake of fire.

Adam came under *sentence* of death the moment he ate the forbidden
 fruit. By God's mercy he did not drop dead on the spot. By God's mercy a
 substitutionary lamb was sacrificed for Adam, and another for Eve. Their
 open guilt ("nakedness") was covered by the death of the lamb, and their
 nudity by the lambskin  God gave them to wear.

 Adam eventually died 930 years later (Genesis 5:5). His body wore out
 due to the curse on the earth, and ceased to be viable. His soul was
 in Sheol awaiting the resurrection; but after Calvary he and the OT
 believers transferred from Sheol to Paradise (Matthew 27:51-53).

 Born once, die twice; born twice, die once. "It is appointed unto men
 once to die, and after this the judgment..." (Hebrews 9:27). There is
 no reincarnation; only resurrection. Before we are born again, we are
 spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, although still physically alive
 as long as we keep breathing and our heart keeps pumping. We have just
 the time of this life in which to repent and make our decision for Christ.
 As we don't know when we are going to die, we'd better come to Christ now
 while it is called "today".

 When we get born again, we are regenerated and made new by the Holy Spirit.
 We have a new life and a new nature, not susceptible to the Second Death.
 The Second Death is the fate of all who are cast into the Lake of Fire
 (Revelation 20:14).

 The First Resurrection is physical. The departed saints in Paradise
 receive a new resurrection body, like Christ's resurrection body
 (Philippians 3:21). This is the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:5b).
 The Second Death has no power over us (Revelation 20:6). The Second
 Resurrection (also physical) is after the millennium, and is of the unsaved
 dead (Revelation 20:5a). Their names will not be found in the Lamb's Book of
 Life, so they will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

 The First Resurrection is described as the Rapture. The resurrected dead
 (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and the metamorphosed living (1 Corinthians 15:52-53)
 all ascend to heaven to meet the Lord "in the air" - i.e., not on the earth
 (1 Thessalonians 4:17). Christ does not actually appear on earth until his
 feet stand in "That Day" on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4). Then he
 returns with all his saints to put down the earthly powers attacking
 Jerusalem and the Jews, and usher in the thousand years of peace.[/size]

dsouzaanthony

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2005, 12:32:26 AM »
Nikki,

The first death has to be spiritual death. Our bodies were designed mortal by God in the beginning even before Adam actually sinned. But our soul was created immortal. Adam did not die physically as soon as he sinned but came into condemnation and was subject to second death unless he is made partaker of the First Resurrection of Christ which is also spiritual.

1 Cor 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV

If God Himself designed mortal bodies for us, then the 1st death has nothing to do with it but can only relate to spiritual death.

It wan't God's plan for this present world to last forever from the beginning itself.

DSOUZAANTHONY

Melanie

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 08:20:31 AM »

 The First Resurrection is physical. The departed saints in Paradise
 receive a new resurrection body, like Christ's resurrection body
 (Philippians 3:21). This is the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:5b).

I cannot agree with that. The first resurrection is spiritual, just like the first death was spiritual. Adam didn't die Physically when he disobeyed God, he died spiritually. Physical death was part of the curse. And we all remain in that state of spiritual death until we are raised up in Christ in the spiritual resurrection. That is the first resurrection.

The second death is also spiritual, since it is judgment after we are physically dead. Otherwise it would be the second death, and judgment would be the third death. But the first death was in Adam, and the second death when we stand before God to be judged. I think a lot of people mistake these verses as talking about Physical Resurrections and Physical Deaths, when we only die Physically once and we never die spiritually after we are saved.

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 03:17:44 PM »
Hi Melanie, you said:

Quote
Christ does not actually appear on earth until his  feet stand in "That Day" on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4).

Zechariah 14 is not about future Second Coming where Christ will physically land on Mount of Olives. It has to do with first coming prior to his death.

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Melanie

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 04:20:50 PM »
Hi Melanie, you said:

Quote
Christ does not actually appear on earth until his  feet stand in "That Day" on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4).

Zechariah 14 is not about future Second Coming where Christ will physically land on Mount of Olives. It has to do with first coming prior to his death.

Erik

Sorry Erik, that was part of the quote that I was disagreeing with. Somehow it got left in the post. I have removed it. Thanks.

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 06:15:53 PM »
Okay Melanie, thanks.

Here is simple information:

First Death: Spiritual Death (Upon on ALL Mankind starting with Adam and Eve the moment they took the bite of the forbidden fruit)

First Resurrection: Born Again (Regenerated Believers of Old and New Testament)

Second Resurrection: General Resurrection of the Dead at the Last Trumpet (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29)

Second Death: Lake of Fire (Apply to ALL who has NOT part in the First Resurrection [Born Again])

Erik

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

JohnDunningUK

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Re: The Second Death
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2012, 08:18:35 AM »
Okay Melanie, thanks.

Here is simple information:

First Death: Spiritual Death (Upon on ALL Mankind starting with Adam and Eve the moment they took the bite of the forbidden fruit)

First Resurrection: Born Again (Regenerated Believers of Old and New Testament)

Second Resurrection: General Resurrection of the Dead at the Last Trumpet (Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29)

Second Death: Lake of Fire (Apply to ALL who has NOT part in the First Resurrection [Born Again])

Erik

Amen Erik.  :) In fact, I would say that if the passage you mentioned in John 5 is opened up a little further, Jesus actually refers to both the first resurrection (spiritual rebirth) and the second resurrection (general resurrection) when He says:

24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25  Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26  For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27  And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28  Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:24-29 (KJV)


"The hour is coming, and now is..." referring to the first resurrection. Note that He says of those who hear and believe that they have "passed from death to life", which is in relation to the first resurrection in Rev 20, where we are told:

6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6 (KJV)

Even now we are a "royal priesthood" 1 Pet 2:9, we are "seated in heavenly places in Christ" Eph 2:6, and in Him we already have the victory over sin and death 1 Cor 15:55-57. How can this be anything other than the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20? Even the 1000 years that the dispensationalist is determined to read literally, when treated symbolically as the apocalyptic style of writing leads us into naturally, it simply means the divine fullness of years. In other words, we shall reign with Christ spiritually until He returns to raise the dead unto judgement.

It is lunacy to suggest that we must take this word in Rev 20 literally, discounting the nature of the letter. Even when the Jews themselves translated the Old Testament into Greek in the 3rd century BC, they used the very same word "chilioi" in many places where it is used in a figurative manner. Would the dispensationalist also demand that we take the following verses literally also?

3  If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand. Job 9:3 (KJV)

23  If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: Job 33:23 (KJV)

4  For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Psalm 90:4 (KJV)

7  A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. Psalm 91:7 (KJV)

8  He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Psalm 105:8 (KJV)

6  Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place? Ecclesiastes 6:6 (KJV)


I could go on, but I think this is sufficient to show that even the Jews who translated the Hebrew into Greek in the Septuagint, would not necessarily agree with the dogmatic insistence of dispensationalism in its supposedly literal form of interpretation (at least when it suits anyway  ::) ).

And if this is a correct interpretation of Revelation 20, which I believe it is, then other verses with more clarity elsewhere in the New Testament give much greater light. For instance, if the binding of Satan in Rev 20:2-3 speaks of him being bound at the Cross, then surely the fact that he is bound "until the thousand years should be fulfilled", speaks of the time in which God shall gather His own from every tongue, tribe and nation by way of the Gospel message.

When this thousand years is expired, that which I interpret as the fulness of the church age, we are told in Rev 20 that Satan will be released to deceive the nations once more. He shall go out and deceptively gather the nations against Christ and His saints, only to be consumed by fire from heaven.

How can this time of Satan's release, his deceiving the nations, and his destruction from on high, not match up to the account given in 2 Thess 2?

3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 (KJV)


I simply cannot understand how some are unable to see the parallel here, and are utterly determined to make this into two separate events. In my opinion dispensationalism is pure poison, and drives a wedge firmly between the believer and the truth they profess to believe.

It's all about Him!

 


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