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Author Topic: Was Adam Created in God's Image?  (Read 28288 times)

stacia

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2005, 12:15:55 PM »
Dear sandysbee,
Please read Ezekeil 28:14 carefully
Quote: Eze 28:4 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Please read verse 16 by the multitude of thy merchandise.What is merchandise? It’s the false gospel preaching.Who is doing it now of course it’s the corporate church.The church was perfect but now we all know what has happened.
This definitely will not talk about Adam Nor Satan.John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
We are new creatures in Christ Jesus(Church)That is the true believers throughout the world.2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
God bless

Daniel

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2005, 02:07:36 PM »
Stacia,
Ez. 28:13
     Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; etc. etc. Was the church in The garden of eden?
                                                                       Dan

Sandy

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2005, 07:52:58 PM »
Stacia,

Ezekiel is lamenting against the king of Tyrus.  You need to ask yourself who or what does this king of Tyrus symbolize?  The king of Tyrus, like all mankind was created in the image of God, but he has turned from God in his sin, and now comes under judgment of God.  Can you see where this king of Tyrus represents a man, in fact fallen man, as in Adam?  It was man who was created perfect.  It was man who was perfect in the mountain, or kingdom of God, but the sin of Adam separated man from God.

The following if from Tony Warren:  What Are Cherubim?

  Romans 8:29   "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

“It was man (Adam, not angels) who was in the Garden of Eden where every precious stone was his covering. It was Adam who was the anointed Cherub that covereth upon the Holy mountain of God, as the very image of the Glory of God. It was Adam who walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (in the presence of God) in that garden. In point of fact, the very name "Tyrus" means a stone. So it's quite obvious to me what is being illustrated here. It was in Adam that man, in the image of God, was perfect in all his ways in the garden among the stones of God, from the day that he was created, until iniquity was found in him (the fall). And the fall of the king of Tyrus in his sinfulness "personifies" this fall from grace by Adam. God is here illustrating to us, fallen man. Man qualifies by attempting to be like God by eating of the tree of knowledge. Man qualifies for "all" that we read in Ezekiel 28:12-16. But Angels do not. We interpret scripture by scripture, not by popular assumptions. And not once do we read of angels in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels falling in the Garden of Eden. Not once do we read of angels being corrupted because of knowledge. Not once do we read of angels defiling their sanctuaries by the multitude of their iniquities. On the contrary, we read of man in the garden, man was perfect there from the time he was created, and man is the one who fell there. And did Not God say these very things of Adam?”

These verses in Ezekiel 28 symbolize Adam, who represents all fallen mankind.  It is not a picture of the church.  Stacia, do a word search for cherub, or better yet learn from the study Tony has already done.  This way you won’t have to keep guessing about what the cherub in Ezekiel represents. 

Sandy     

Reformer

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2005, 04:21:56 AM »
Dear sandysbee,
Please read Ezekeil 28:14 carefully

God bless

 We all should read Ezekiel carefully. Can you see that whoever it is talking about, it says he has been in the garden of Eden from the day he was created. Was the Church in the garden of Eden, or was man in the garden of Eden? Who does Genesis say was the only ones in the garden of Eden, and who corrupted themselves? Was it the Prince of Tyrus, The Church, Satan, Angels, or Adam? The only ones we read were there were Adam and Satan, but satan didn't corrupt himself, Adam did and was removed lest he eat of the tree and become like God. Perfectly reflecting what God is saying in Ezekiel.

 Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

The church just doesn't fit harmoneously, but Man does.

Shoan

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2005, 07:49:49 AM »
Hello everyone,

Let me shed some light on teh discussion going on in this thread....

Those who think that Adam was created in the image of God perfect blameless and holy which only Christ is entitled to don't believe in teh doctrine of predestination.

According as he hath chosen us in him(in Christ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:   (Eph 1:4) (We only become holy to God being in Christ)

Who(Christ) verily was foreordained before the foundation  of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,  (1 Pet 1:20) (Cud Adam frustrate the Salvation plan of God by remaining obedient and was there a need of a Savior if Adam was perfect)

….. the Lamb slain from the foundation  of the world.” Rev 13:8 

"For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation  of the world."    (Heb 4:3)

In Principle Christ was slain before the foundation of this world.

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man(includes Adam) knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man (includes Adam)the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.  (Mat 11:27) 

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation  of the world:"    (Mat 25:34)(The KIngdom of God was prepared for those whom God chose before the foundation of this world)

What is the Kingdom of God?( Romans 14:17.  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.)

One becomes righteous,holy and has peace with God only in Christ!!!!!

"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation  of the world."    (John 17:24) (Only Jesus had perfect relationship with the Father)

Only Christ is the image Of God:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (Phil 2:6-9) 

2Cor4:4.  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col 1:15.  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Heb 1:3.  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Adam was earthy and cannot be in the image of God
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (Christ who is the image of God) (1 Cor 15:47)

… he (Adam)that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he(Christ) that cometh from heaven is above all.  (John 3:31)

If you'll think Adam had the image of God before the fall then you'll deny so many scriptures when you'll take Gen 1:26- 27 literally.  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
 27.  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


We can only have the image of God in Christ and apart from christ we are all Dung!!!!!

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature(in the Image od God)old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (not renew) (2 Cor 5:17)

Peace!!!






judykanova

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2005, 01:36:48 PM »
Hello everyone,

Let me shed some light on teh discussion going on in this thread....

Those who think that Adam was created in the image of God perfect blameless and holy which only Christ is entitled to don't believe in teh doctrine of predestination.

Shoan,

Let me shed some light on the way you began your post.  It's one thing to say... 'Adam was created in the image of God, in the sense that ....',  but you're fighting a losing battle when you begin a post which, off the bat, denies what God has declared in His Word.

Secondly, if we define 'perfect' and 'blameless' to mean "without sin", then yes we can say this describes Adam before his fall, particularly if one believes that the Ezekial passage mentioned by others, refers to Adam, notably:
EZ 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
But 'holy'?  Who said anything about Adam being holy?

The bulk of your post, in my opinion, misses the point.  I think most know we are made perfect in Christ.  But, unlike Adam[/u], we began this life in a state of sin, whereas Adam began 'blameless'.   You seem to forget this important distinction.  God also sometimes refers to men like Job as 'perfect' --  in the sense that when God looks upon one who has the covering of Christ, He sees perfection.

Job 1:8 
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


Consider the temptation of Adam who succombed, versus the temptation of Job who endured.  What was the difference?  Adam was created blameless and without sin... until iniquity was found in his heart.  Job was born in sin but was at some point saved -- covered by the blood of Christ who was slain before the foundation of the world.

Job therefore (despite his human failing), by the Grace of God endured until the end.  That is why salvation offers godly repentence and assurance from the wrath of God, whereas being 'blameless', but without Christ, is a very tenuous and short-lived state, for as in Adam... all die (spiritually and physically).  Thus, Job abhored and repented of his short-comings, whereas Adam made excuses and tried to blame it on Eve.

Job 42:6 
Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes. .

Gen 3:12 
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.


In my initial post I mentioned the need to reconcile and find harmony in all passages in the Bible related to any given topic.  Your views are totally unacceptable to me because instead of dealing with God's declaration that He made Adam in His image, you deny it.   In my initial post, I also mentioned the possibility that Adam was created in the image of God, in the sense that he -- unlike all other creatures, was given an eternal soul.  That works for me, until such time further light is shed on this topic, ...not by denying what God said but by taking what He said as true and as the starting point.

judy
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Shoan

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2005, 11:07:45 PM »
Hi Judy,
U said regarding adam: EZ 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

But it is referring to Satan and not Adam: here is biblical proof:

Ezek. 26-28 are of a piece. The three chapters deal with the time we live in now. God is calling the rebellious, apostate church (the organizational entity He commisioned at Pentacost) Tyre because they are behaving as idolatrous Tyre behaved. God has withdrawn Himself from this organized entity, the church, and loosed Satan upon it as a dire Judgment. Now this church has turned to Satan as it he were god. God explicitely teaches this in Ezek. 26:2.
> Ezek 26:2 Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, now she is laid waste:
>
>Satan said against the earthly Jerusalem, church, Aha God's corporate church that used to be the gate through which God's people entered to worship Him has now turned unto me and worships me as if I were god. I am winning. My hatred of mankind can now accomplish their utter destruction. That's the sense of it. So this 3 chapter passage starts out with Satan in control of that which God has thrown off due to it's apostasy.
>
2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.>
>Then after many solomn judgments by God we get to Ezek. 28. Because he was typified by the man Nebuchednezzar and because he must work through men to accomplish his purposes, God often calls Satan a man.
>
2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
>
>The words "anointed", "cherub" and "covereth" (Hebrew originals) always refer to God except in Ezek. 28:14. Also the precious stones in vs. 13 approximate, but differ in significant respects, the High Priest's breastplate. Thus we are dealing with an entity in Ezek. 28 that looks a whole lot like Christ -- but isn't.
>
>A key is the phrase "sealest up the sum."
>
>Evidence for Satan being in view in Ezek. 28 is from Ezek. 43:11. As you know the temple (and the tabernacle before it) was built according to a *pattern* in heaven with God. God showed it (Christ crucified the outworking of the gospel through His work/faith) to Moses who copied it in the construction of the tabernacle and to David who passed it along to his son, Solomon, who ordered the building of the temple after it. The pattern was spiritual and resided with God and provided salvation in accordance with the elective program. The temple was an earthy copy that pointed to the pattern, but did not itself save anyone. The original pattern is the true gospel of Christ crucified and resides with God in heaven.
>
>O.K. now look at Ezek. 43:10-12. The context beginning with Ezek. 43:1 and following is very important to have in mind. The glory of the Lord comes from the East and fills the house of God. Then God instructs Ezekiel to show the house which is full of the glory of God to the house of Israel so that they will be ashamed of their iniquities. AND they are told to measure the pattern (tokniyth:H8508). As we see from the next verse (vs. 11) this is the pattern of the spiritual temple. Several things are really interesting here:
>
>1. Tokniyth, the word for pattern is only used twice in the Hebrew OT. This really important word is used by God in just two places -- here in Ezek. 43:10 AND in Ezek. 28:12 where it is mistranslated "sum." The context of Ezek. 43:11 clearly confirms that the translation of tokniyth closest to God's usage is "pattern." Also in Ezek. 28:12 "sealest" is chatham which in Dan. 12:4 and 9 means "prevent from coming out," "seal" so that no one can see it until God allows them to. So in Ezek. 28:12 what Satan does is suppress the gospel so it is sealed up from view. "Sum" is rejected as incorrect and "pattern" (in the spiritual, true gospel sense) becomes the preferred translation. Together with the correct biblical understanding of chatham (sealed), this puts a whole new light on Ezek. 28:12 and makes it additional evidence that Satan is in view.
>
>2. Here are the verses from the KJV followed by the Hebrew. I put the word "form" or "forms" in purple. Notice that it occurs four times in vs.11. Astoundingly, the Hebrew original (also in purple) is used by God no where else -- only here in vs. 11 and here FOUR times. For God to use a word in only one verse and there four times must be exceedingly rare and possible altogether unique. This has to make us sit up and take notice. It is the *feminine* form of the common word for rock as in "Rock of our salvation" (Ps. 95:1). So we have to ask, "Why did God use the feminine form of "rock" here and no where else"? I think it because the spiritual temple is made up of Christ and His bride who is feminine. He is the rock on which the house is built. The saved elect are spiritual stones built into the spiritual house.
>
> Ezek 43:10  Thou son of man, show the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern (tokniyth:H8508).
>
>
>
>    Remember God only uses tokniyth here and Ezek. 28:12. So here God is being very definite about what it means. The word "form" in the next verse is being used as a synomym.
>
Ezek 43:11  And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, show them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
>
> Ezek 43:12  This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
>
>
>
>Ezek 43:10  . ben:H1121 . 'adam:H120 nagad:H5046 . bayith:H1004 . . bayith:H1004 . yisra'el:H3478 . . . . kalam:H3637 . . 'avon:H5771 . . . madad:H4058 . tokniyth:H8508
>
>Ezek 43:11  . 'im:H518 . . kalam:H3637 . kol:H3605 . . . 'asah:H6213 yada':H3045 . . tsuwrah:H6699 . . bayith:H1004 . . tekuwnah:H8498 . . . mowtsa':H4161 . . . . mowba':H4126 . . . kol:H3605 . tsuwrah:H6699 . . kol:H3605 . chuqqah:H2708 . . kol:H3605 . tsuwrah:H6699 . . kol:H3605 . towrah:H8451 . . kathab:H3789 . . . 'ayin:H5869 . . . shamar:H8104 . kol:H3605 tsuwrah:H6699 . . kol:H3605 . chuqqah:H2708 . . 'asah:H6213 .
>
>
>
>8498. tekuwnah, tek-oo-naw'; fem. pass. part. of H8505; adjustment, i.e. structure; by impl. equipage:--fashion, store.
>
>8505. takan, taw-kan'; a prim, root; to balance, i.e. measure out (by weight or dimension); fig. to arrange, equalize, through the idea of levelling (ment, estimate, test):--bear up, direct, be ([un-]) equal, mete, ponder, tell, weigh.

>6699. tsuwrah, tsoo-raw'; fem. of H6697; a rock (Job 28 : 10); also a form (as if pressed out):--form, rock.
>
>6697. tsuwr, tsoor; or  tsur, tsoor; from H6696; prop. a cliff (or sharp rock, as compressed); gen. a rock or boulder; fig. a refuge; also an edge (as precipitous):--edge, X (mighty) God (one), rock, X sharp, stone, X strength, X strong. See also H1049.
>
>God's use of the feminine form of the Hebrew word for rock in Ezek. 43:11 four times (and no where else) has aroused our curiosity. This in turn has caused us to notice the word "pattern" in Ezek. 43:10 and that it is only used in *one* other verse, Ezek. 28:12. This led us to correctly understand that Satan stops the pattern of the gospel. Certainly he cannot ever stop the gospel totally, but this is his malicious desire and he carries it out wherever possible.

>There are additional observations in Ezek. 26-28 that further confirm that the Prince/King of Tyre is Satan.

And regarding Job,I agree that Job was perfect in Christ and apart from Christ no one can be perfect and that's what I exactly meant as I clearly stated that the elect were chosen before the foundation of teh world in Christ to be holy and blameless before Him which means that even Adam before he sinned needed a savior and that's the whole point of this study.....ONLY CHRIST IS TEH IMAGE OF GOD!!!! http://


judykanova

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2005, 02:06:45 AM »
Quote
quote from Shoan:  ONLY CHRIST IS TEH IMAGE OF GOD!!!!

Sloan, 

You spent your entire post talking about Ezekial which is not the main topic of discussion.  I appreciate the Scriptures and will study what you had to say about whether the passage in Ez 28:15 refers to man or Satan.  But again, that doesn't negate what God declares in Genesis. 

Gen 1:27 
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 9:6 
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


Why don't you deal with the issue at hand and just answer one question... how do you reconcile your views with Gen 1:27, 9:5?
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Frank Mortimer

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2005, 07:08:14 AM »
Hi Judy,
U said regarding adam: EZ 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

But it is referring to Satan and not Adam: here is biblical proof:

Ezek. 26-28 are of a piece. The three chapters deal with the time we live in now. God is calling the rebellious, apostate church (the organizational entity He commisioned at Pentacost) Tyre because they are behaving as idolatrous Tyre behaved.

 This is not biblical proof. Tyrus is a illustration of man. More than that, it is an illustration of the man of the church, just as Adam was a man created perfectly. It's not Tyre that is illustrating Satan here, it is the king of babylon that is symbolizing satan, and he comes up upon man who was created perfect and is the judgment of God upon them. God makes use of the agency of Satan against wicked man as well as of good men for the accomplishment of his purposes. The king of Babylon comes against man.

 Eze 26:7 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.
 8 He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.
 9 And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

The way you understand this, you have Satan attacking Satan. The King of Babylon attacking the King of Tyrus. You're on the right track, but you are not staying on track. I believed as you do, but have since considered both positions in light of scripture and I believe Tyrus cannot represent Satan. He is used by God as representing "man" who was created perfect, and has fallen. And will have the King of Babylon, which is Satan, destroy him.

 Secondarily, 2nd thessalonians chapter 2 is all about "man" taking a position as God in the Church. Yes, he's controlled by Satan, but it's man. The number 666 is the number of man, not a man. See Tony's study of the beast and of 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 for biblical proof. I've found that it all ties together. After the fall, Adam was thrown out of the garden lest he eat of the tree of life and become as God.

 Genesis 1:26, 27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Adam was the one created perfect until iniquity was found in him. Adam was the anointed Cherub, the very image of God in the garden of Eden. Satan was not the cherubim or image of God! Nowhere do we read that Satan was the image of God in the garden. But we do read that about Adam. And we come to truth by comparing scripture with scripture.

Let me say that I once believed as you do, but after growing and studying this more carefully, I see that it does represent man. And the biblical proof is that if the King of Babylon represents Satan, and we all know he does, we cannot have the King Satan coming against the King Satan. The King of Babylon comes against the King of Tyrus. Satan always comes against man. And particularly, the man of God who has fallen into sin. The man of sin, not Satan against Satan.


Shoan

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2005, 08:59:39 AM »
Hi Judy,
before we see these scriptures(Gen 1:27 and 9:6) let me make a valid point from the sriptures below and then let's see what God means when He says He created man in His own Image.

Genesis1: 2.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 3.  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
 4.  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


God said Let there be light and there was light(v3)....let's see in 2Corin 4:6 what God says about the light when He said let there be light..   For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

If God says this light (Gen 1:3) is Christ then we cant simply say that the darkness in Gen 1:2 is simply being dark that one cannot see...it surely means that without Christ who is the light everything is void ,without form and the darkness is spiritual much as it was literal.

John8:12.  Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Heb1:2.  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3.  Who being the brightness of his glory(compare with 2Cor4:6), and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high
;Heb 1:5.  For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

When God said let there be light it simply means God foreordained Christ to be the Savior through whom He would save mankind(teh elect).Who verily was foreordained before the foundation  of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,  (1 Pet 1:20)

When God says in Gen 1:26 let Us make Man in our image,according to Our likeness...it was not Adam he was creating...Adams creation account is in Gen 2:7  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

It was the new man in Christ Jesus He created...And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.  (Eph 4:24) 

And have put on the new man, which is made new in knowledge after the image of him that created him:  (Col 3:10) 

2Corin5:17.  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new  piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.  And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new  bottles.  (Mark 2:21-22)

God is not repairing Adam but making him all together new in Christ by saving him.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.  (Gen 2:7)

1 Cor. 15:45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
 46.  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
 47.  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
 48.  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
 49.  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
 50.  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


Likewise after the flood of God’s wrath in Noah’s day, God reaffirms His plan for the elect of mankind in Christ, the image of God.  Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.  (Gen 9:6)

Matthew 23: 29.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
 30.  And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
 31.  Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
 32.  Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
 33.  Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
 34.  Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
 35.  That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
 36.  Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37.  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 27:24.  When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
 25.  Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.


God will require at the hands of the wicked the blood they shed of His Son and His people...that's what Gen9:6 means......Because Christ is teh image of God and His people are created in that Image.

Peace!!!




dsouzaanthony

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2005, 10:23:48 AM »
Shoan,

Thought I would add my two cents.  Consider following passage:

John 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
John 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.


In other words it was not sin that brought about the occasion for this historical parable; it was God's desire to make His works manifest in the man. This harmonizes with the idea that God's purposes did not hinge upon the fulcrum of Adam's actions. God simply did in all sovereignty that which it was His purpose to do. Namely, to make His saving works manifest in the elect.

Also consider the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Tradition would have it that Adam by using his supposed free will could have (by resisting temptation) rendered the Lamb's purposed sacrifice and love for the elect both superfluous and irrelevant. Did the purposes of God to display His mercy and love really run the risk of being blocked by the actions of the creature? Did Adam really possess so much power that he could either instigate God's salvation plan by rebelling or render it superfluous by remaining faithful?
I think the Bible teaches that God made Adam natural and earthy in the beginning and that he could never for an instant emulate the righteousness of Jesus - The Man who is also God.

Also, I don't find for Adam's special case (presumadely before his fall) anywhere in the scriptures.  In other words there wasn't any time in Adam's life where he did not need Christ.

Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:  21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

The above scripture does not talk about fall of Adam but rather it teaches that he was accountable to God.

I think I have made my points very clear.

God Bless

DSOUZAANTHONY

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2005, 12:10:27 PM »
Genesis1: 2.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 3.  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
 4.  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


God said Let there be light and there was light(v3)....let's see in 2Corin 4:6 what God says about the light when He said let there be light..   For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

If God says this light (Gen 1:3) is Christ then we cant simply say that the darkness in Gen 1:2 is simply being dark that one cannot see..


Now I'm getting a little wary of your teaching Shaon. Are you one of those people who over-spiritualize so much that you end up denying the foundational truths of Genesis? It's not literal light? It's not man literally created in God's image? It's not the world literally created in 6 days? Because that's what it sounds like to me. It's been mentioned before with dsouzaanthony, and it sounds like you both are from the same line of thinking.

How can you say when God said let there be light, He was talking of Christ? Did God create Christ on that day? God created light on that day, not Christ. Christ wasn't created in Genesis, and so your interpretation is very bad. Yes it spiritually means that without Christ everything is void, but that hardly means God was not talking about literal light. Likewise, it doesn't mean that man wasn't created in the image of God just because Christ conforms him to that image.  You have to accept what's written first. Then see where it goes.

 Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

That is the starting point, not the point of contention. And that is why your interpretation is wrong. The spiritual does not make the literal void. You can't just say because there is a deeper spiritual meaning in Genesis, that means man was not created in God's image, or that it was not literal light that brightened the darkness, it was spiritually Christ. You mess up a whole lot of other truths that way.

Sandy

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2005, 03:28:00 PM »
Let's assume for a moment that the anointed cherub in Ezekiel 28 is referring to Satan, and not Adam.  Wouldn't that mean that an angel, a fallen one at that, is also called a cherub?  Can we find other verses of Scripture where angels are referred to as cherub(ims)?  If a cherub is an angel, doesn't that mean that when God gave instructions about building the Tabernacle, and ark of the covenant, and included cherub(ims) in the design, (Ex. 25) that His instructions included breaking the Law He had previously given?  Ex. 20:4 - Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

I mean angels are spirit beings who reside in heaven.  This was even true of Satan until he was cast out.  So, how can an angel, even a fallen one, be called an anointed cherub? Contrary to popular opinion, a cherub is never a reference to an angel in Scripture.

Sandy         

       

judykanova

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2005, 05:13:41 PM »
Sloan,

You really jumped thru hoops in your last post, still trying to deny God's declaration that He created man in His image.  As stated in my previous posts, you can't come to truth by denying a passage of Scripture because it won't neatly fit into your scheme of things.  We can’t ‘rightly divide’ God’s Word by ‘wresting’ Scripture in an attempt to make it conform to our personal views and opinions. We instead begin with the premise that God's Word is the authority, and allow the Bible to be its own interpreter... comparing Scripture with Scripture.  For when one’s beginning premises are wrong, one error lead to more error.

2Pe 3:16-17
16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


You started your last post by speaking of the creation in general, which (I agree) does indeed reflect much spiritual truths regarding God's gospel plan.  However, the creation account in Genesis simultaneously reflects the actual historical account along with what they are a ‘shadow’ of spiritually.  You deny the literal account and only acknowledge its underlying spiritual significance,  instead of allowing the context of the Scriptures themselves lead you to embrace both aspects -- the literal and the spiritual.

Quote
When God says in Gen 1:26 let Us make Man in our image,according to Our likeness...it was not Adam he was creating...Adams creation account is in Gen 2:7  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

It was the new man in Christ Jesus He created...And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.  (Eph 4:24)  

And have put on the new man, which is made new in knowledge after the image of him that created him:  (Col 3:10)  

2Corin5:17.  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gen 2 is but a further elaboration on the same creation account that was introduced in Gen 1.  Gen 1 says God created man,... Gen 2 fills in the details.  These are not two creation accounts, but one and the same.  I realize there is a sect of heretical teaching -- based on the imaginations of men that teaches two creation accounts.  I hope that is not the direction you are leaning towards.

Neither the context of Gen 1,2, nor the Bible's teachings as a whole will allow your interpretation that God did not really mean what He said about creating man in His image, but (according to you) was just spiritualizing about "the new man in Jesus Christ".  That just doesn't make sense.   Like most of your posts, you mix truth with fiction, and often stray from the topic at hand by arguing things that are not under contention... like that fact that when one is saved, they are made a new creature in Christ.  

The fact that we are indeed made a new creature in Christ, provides a key to understanding the distinct differences between the first Adam , and Christ 'the second Adam'.  As stated in earlier, Adam needed a Savior just as surely as we need Christ today.  Therefore those passages in the NT about becoming a new creation in Christ Jesus apply to all of mankind from Adam onward.  

So then, in what way was Adam created in God’s image?  One possibility that I have offered is the fact that Adam, like all mankind, was given an eternal soul/spirit whereby even those who try to deny God, know deep in their souls that He exists, is the Creator of all things, and will be ‘without excuse’ on the day of judgment.

Rom 1:18-20 
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19  Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Please consider that salvation entails being ‘born again’ -- born from above, a new creation in Christ Jesus.

Joh 3:3-5
3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


So then, Adam was created with an eternal soul.  And he was also created without sin – an initial state of being  ‘perfect’ and ‘blameless’… until he succumbed to the temptation of  the flesh.  BUT, we can’t equate Adam’s initial state of sinlessness or perfection with salvation; this appears to be at the root of your error (and rebellion) when you insist (despite what God says) that man was not created in God’s image.

As mentioned earlier, Job (a picture of saved man after Adam’s fall) was also described by God as ‘perfect’, but not from the same  vantage point of being created sinless as Adam was.  But rather from the vantage point of  being born again/born from above – created anew in Christ, whereby his soul (which had been dead in trespasses and sins, due to Adam's fall) was‘quickened’.  And  his sins  (past, present and future) were washed clean or covered by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:4-5
4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


And so, although Adam’s initial state was one of perfection (sinless/blameless), we are given these distinct differences between Adam, and Christ -- the “the second Adam”.  Namely Christ -- albeit He assumed a human nature to become our Kinsman Redeemer,  never ceased to be God and was ‘born’ “holy”,  with a soul that was already full of God’s Spirit “without measure”.   Christ’s perfection was not so much in the fact that He was sinless (as was Adam initially), but more so in the fact that He was able to adhere to both the letter and the spirit of the law.  For Christ was the law – the Word made flesh.  He was thereby never ‘at risk’ (for lack of a better word) of not keeping the law perfectly and perpetually.

Joh 3:34-35
34  For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Mat 1:18
  Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Luk 1:35 
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:34
  Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou  destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.


Compare also these two passages which makes a key distinction between Adam in his initial state of perfection (but not salvation), versus  one who is ‘born again’ into the lasting perfection of Christ.

Gen 2:7 
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Joh 20:22 
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:


As thus, we can begin to reconcile and find harmony with these passages that you gave:

2Corin5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 Cor. 15:45-52
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


That last passage, when ‘rightly divided’ provides a side-by-side comparison of the dual nature of Adam and all mankind  (eternal soul that recognizes God, but a body of flesh prone to sin, which cannot inherit heaven),  – versus -- Christ the “second Adam”.  You had stopped with verse 50,  which doesn’t fully illustrate that fact that even those saved in Christ Jesus, still live in hope of the final transformation of our bodies that will no longer be of earthly flesh, but will instead reflect the brand new heaven and new earth, in which the light of Christ will shine forevermore.  This is the eternal light in which the physical ‘light’ of the sun/moon in Gensis was but a shadow.

Rev 22:5 
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.



judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2005, 06:12:48 PM »
It's not Tyre that is illustrating Satan here, it is the king of babylon that is symbolizing satan, and he comes up upon man who was created perfect and is the judgment of God upon them.

 Eze 26:7 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.
 8 He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.
 9 And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

The way you understand this, you have Satan attacking Satan. The King of Babylon attacking the King of Tyrus.


Excellent point. Everyone knows that Satan is spiritually the king of Babylon. We all agree on that, right? The question to you Shoan is this. If the King of Babylon represents Satan, who is this Prince of Tyrus that God brings him against? It cannot also be Satan as you said it was, because then God would be sending the king Satan against the Prince Satan. Obviously then, this is not the proof that this speaks of Satan that you thought it was.


 


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