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Author Topic: Was Adam Created in God's Image?  (Read 28278 times)

Sandy

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2005, 03:43:40 PM »
Stacia,

Here is the link to Tony Warren's article on cheribum. 

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/what_are_cherubim.shtml

Here is a short quote from the study:  "At first glance it is easy to see how one could make such a mistake about the king representing a fallen angel. However, rather than reading into this text an angel, the king of Tyrus is quite clearly a Man being castigated by God for being created in the image of God as righteous, but who has turned from God in his sin, and has thus come under judgement. So rather than represent an angel, this man represents man. It is man as he was in Adam before the fall. Man, as he was created in the "image" of God, but who has fallen, in Adam."

Sandy     


Reformer

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2005, 05:09:27 PM »
Stacia,

Here is the link to Tony Warren's article on cheribum. 

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/what_are_cherubim.shtml

Here is a short quote from the study:  "At first glance it is easy to see how one could make such a mistake about the king representing a fallen angel. However, rather than reading into this text an angel, the king of Tyrus is quite clearly a man being castigated by God for being created in the image of God as righteous, but who has turned from God in his sin, and has thus come under judgement.



Thank you Sandy for finding that. I knew I had read it in one of Tony's articles, but he has so many of them I couldn't find which one I had read about it. I think it's a very interesting point and one that merits further study.

One thing I do know, man was created in the image of God.


Carol

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2005, 06:39:17 PM »
Kenneth,
I think you are right.  We were made in the image of God, lost that image in the fall, and that image is restored to believers.  That's pretty much what I thought before but just didn't have a good grasp on the 'loosing the image' part.  I didn't mean to call God a liar, or make things complicated, or make assumptions, and such as that.  I'm just a sinner saved by grace, who has ALOT to learn.  But I appreciate you taking the time to teach me from God's word.

I do believe though that there are verses that sound like they mean one thing, when in actuality they mean something else.  Here is an example:

1 John 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doeth not commit sin:  for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Just reading this verse, you would think it's saying believers cannot sin.  But we know that we all sin.  After further study of this verse and comparing it with other verses, I believe that it means we cannot sin if we are 'in Christ' because he cannot sin and is perfectly righteous, and that righteousness is imputed to us.

For a long time, I just couldn't understand this verse.  It was a 'complicated' verse to me.  Once the Lord opened my eyes and with help from other believers' writings, it became 'uncomplicated.'

Anyway, my point is --just because something is really simple and uncomplicated to you, it may not be the same for someone else.  God doesnt reveal everything to everyone at the same time.  We (believers) are all growing and learning things as God reveals them to us.  --Maybe I'm just a slow learner.  :)

Anyway, thanks for your help,
Carol


Run, John, run! The Law commands!
But gives me neither feet nor hands.
Far grander news the Gospel brings:
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dsouzaanthony

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2005, 11:13:07 PM »
Carol,

I disagree with Pilgrim when he stated that Adam was created perfect and sinless as God Himself.  Here are my reasons:

As long as Adam obeyed God he was OK but there is always a chance that he could fall in the future by his own free-will.  As long as there was a chance that he could fall is not what Bible calls perfect.   By contrast see the divine character of Christ:

Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Why did Christ not sin?  It is because of his divine nature.  He was tempted in all respects, obedient to God in all respects and yet without sin. Compare Christ's nature to Adam's and you will know the difference.  As long as there was a possibility for Adam to fall, you could not call him perfect.  No one can be perfect apart from Christ.  Christ is preeminent in all things.  I don't know if Tony would agree with me.  But I found his article "Why Did Christ Say God Had Forsaken Him?" to be excellent.  That's how Christ is.

To say that Adam had sinless perfection is to say in one way that he is God. 

Quote by Carol
God doesnt reveal everything to everyone at the same time.  We (believers) are all growing and learning things as God reveals them to us.  --Maybe I'm just a slow learner. 

Yes I can agree with you.  I am a slow learner.

God Bless,

DSOUZAANTHONY

andreas

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2005, 12:53:24 AM »
<<<God is talking about man, and he created him in his own image. Man sinned and fell and was separted from God. That is why he was thrown out of the garden of eden. He was no longer in the image of God and could not remain with God who dwelled there. >>>

I was responding to the above statement when i said ,

"The whole image was not destroyed after the fall of Adam,as we can see in:

Genesis 9:6,

James 3:9,and

1 Corr.11:7

There was however, loss of original righteousness as we can see in:

Ephesians 4:24."

<<<These people showed scripture it's true, but none of them showed scripture saying that man was "not" created in the image of God.>>>

No one would deny scripture that clearly states man was created in God's image,and that includes me.Kindly cast an eye on my Avatar.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."Genesis 1:27

I was arguing that man lost some, but not  the whole image of God after the fall.

andreas 8)

kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Reformer

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2005, 03:33:38 AM »
No one would deny scripture that clearly states man was created in God's image,and that includes me.Kindly cast an eye on my Avatar.

andreas 8)

I would disagree because dsouzaanthony has denied it. In fact, He has said very clearly that "Man was NOT created in the image of God. See his own words! He has claimed he provided scripture that proves that this creation (man) was not a perfect one. Again, see his own words. I have yet to see this scripture that proves this, but he says he gave them. No scripture he has given says anything about man not being created perfect. You seemed to agree with him, and that is what we are debating against. Because this is a dangerous doctrine that can undercut the whole gospel message of original sin, as Kenneth so adequately explained. All I'm saying is that man was created in the image of God, not the planets, not the stars, not the universe and earth, but man. Just like the scripture says. It's not a metaphor, man actually was created in the likeness of God.

So when you say "No one would deny scripture that clearly states man was created in God's image," you are wrong because dsouzaanthony's exact words are "man was not created in the image of God." That's exactly what he said. So someone is denying it and Christians do not feel they can sit back and not say anything when that happens. It's one thing to say we are created in the image of God in this sense or that sense, but it is another to actually "deny" we are created in the image of God. That is a very wrong thing to do.


Reformer

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2005, 03:50:29 AM »
Carol,

I disagree with Pilgrim when he stated that Adam was created perfect and sinless as God Himself. 



Pilgrim never said that. What Pilgrim said, and what most Christians would agree with, is that Adam was created perfect, without sin, in the image of God. There was no need for you to twist his words to make it sound like He said man was God. That's not what he said or what he meant and you know that. The fact remains, man was perfect until he sinned, then he was corrupted and became a sinner before God unworthy to remain in the garden of Eden.


Quote
To say that Adam had sinless perfection is to say in one way that he is God. 

You are just kicking up dust, it is not saying man is God to say that there was original sin, and before that man was without sin, perfect, created in the image of God. Not created God, but created in the image of God's perfection. Man is flesh and blood, God is not. However, to say Adam was created imperfect and with sin before the fall is to call God a liar and is an attack on the christian doctrine of original sin. You know that.



stacia

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2005, 12:23:21 PM »
Reformer,
You said that Kenneth explained clearly.But I say he doesnt know what is the meaning of cherub.He indirectly means that Adam is the cherub in Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. {sardius: or, ruby} {beryl: or, chrysolite} {emerald: or, chrysoprase}Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Can you explain at least.How can you agree to a person who has created doubts?
God Bless

Sandy

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2005, 03:35:11 PM »
Stacia,

The verses in Ezekiel can refer to only one of two beings...Satan, or Adam?  To which do you contend these words are spoken?  The article on cherubim by Tony Warren is of great help in clearing up the mystery.

Sandy   

andreas

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2005, 10:11:59 PM »
<<<These people showed scripture it's true, but none of them showed scripture saying that man was "not" created in the image of God.>>>

The above statement clearly states "THESE people",and none of "THEM" which is plural,and as Carol mentioned my name ,i took it to also apply to me.One thing that i have learned since i first came here is, SOLA SCRIPTURA,and that human ideas,interpretations,and speculations,are not worth the paper they are written on.The scriptures say that God created man in his own image,and that is clear enough.There is no room for debate.I do not agree with 'dsouzaanthony'.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2005, 12:30:36 AM »

Why did Christ not sin?  It is because of his divine nature. 

dsouzaanthony,

Once again, show us where The Word of God agrees with the following?  "However, Adam was re-created (born-again) in the image of God only at the point of his salvation." dsouzaanthony

Can you help us with a verse which teaches that Christ did not sin because of His devine nature?  Maybe there's an essay which claims that what The Lord Jesus Christ did was no big deal; hey, He is God, of course He doesn't sin!

Is that what you're up to?  To diminish the work of the Lord? 

Jim


stacia

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2005, 12:17:31 PM »
Sandasbee,
It cannot be satan as satan cannot have the glory of God but i believe that Ezekeil talks about the church in the end times.
The church has Gods anointment which is lost during these end times.It was perfect till sin was found(Abomination of desolation).
God bless

Sandy

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2005, 05:07:17 PM »
Stacia,

Have you read Tony Warren's article about cherubim?  The end times church?  (Vs. 15 - Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.)  Where, in all of Scripture do we find the church ever described as being perfect?

You are correct in saying these verses do not describe Satan. 

Sandy   

stacia

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2005, 08:09:51 AM »
Sandysbee,
I dont want to prove that I am right but dont you believe that the the church has the righteousness of Christ who is perfect.Of course we know that the church will be desolate in the end times.Also there are some verses in the Bible which says that the church had the glory of God.According to the study of the cherubiums that is the attribute of God and definately satan can never have.Only the church can qualify to have because of the righteousness of Christ.I am still studying the same and will soon post it by Gods grace.
Let God open our eyes to know his word.
God bless

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Was Adam Created in God's Image?
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2005, 08:14:09 AM »
Stacia,

Have you read Tony Warren's article about cherubim?  The end times church?  (Vs. 15 - Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.)  Where, in all of Scripture do we find the church ever described as being perfect?

You are correct in saying these verses do not describe Satan. 

Sandy   

Correct Sandy. Also, where do we ever read of the church being described as being created? It sounds like "man" to me.

 Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 Ge 5:1  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

 De 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

 Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

 


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