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Author Topic: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24  (Read 41141 times)

Frank Mortimer

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2003, 07:53:14 PM »
Anyone ever give the thought that it might be both? A world full of physical war and spiritual war? Is there anything which would preclude that?

Layla

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2003, 08:30:06 AM »
Greetings Frank

I agree with you.  These were my thoughts as I was reading this thread.  The spiritual (imo) is always played out for us in the natural.  The problem with many students is they do not allow the Word to instruct us spiritually, we tend to look at the natural and blindly attempt to aply it to scripture.  IMO it is first important to understand the spiritual implications so that we can better "see" the natural application.

Below is an unfulfilled prophecy.  During this current time of "wars and rumors of wars" I think we can possibly see the fulfillment of this on the horizon.

Isaiah 17:1  The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from [being] a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

I think one would be hard pressed to suggest that this is not going to literally happen.  Time will tell, I suppose.

Peace,
Layla

David Oddo

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2003, 09:39:45 AM »
Physical wars will happen up until the last day, and they all happen under God's sovereign control. However "end-times" physical wars, are not what the Prophets had visions of and wrote about. The prophets did not prophesy the Civil War, or Vietnam, or the Gulf War, or this war in Iraq now,  or any future physical war with Syria.

We must know that God uses countries and lands as types and shadows in prophecy. Whether it be Edom, Egypt, the land of Israel, Euphrates river, etc. All are portraying a signficant spiritual picture, and we must have spiritual understanding as we read all these prophecies, or we will be easily led off track.

For example, have some of Esau's physical descendants been saved? Absolutely. Have any of the spiritual house of Esau been saved? No. So if we read a verse like Obadiah 1:18 without spiritual understanding, we will be way off track, and come to some racist view about who can be saved.

Obadiah 1:18
And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken it.


It's imperative that we have spiritual understanding as we read the prophecies of the word of God. In Isaiah 17 which was quoted.. I believe God is using Damascus as a portrait of the Apostate church, which is to be judged. We see this greatly as we compare scripture with scripture. One of the best examples is Jeremiah 49, where we see God speaking of the falling away of Damascus.. and calls it formerly  the "city of praise".

Jeremiah 49:24-27
Damascus is waxed feeble, and turneth herself to flee, and fear hath seized on her: anguish and sorrows have taken her, as a woman in travail.
How is the city of praise not left, the city of my joy!
Therefore her young men shall fall in her streets, and all the men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD of hosts.
And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus, and it shall consume the palaces of Benhadad.


And again we read in Isaiah 17 that with the Judgment of Damascus the glory of Jacob (believers) shall be made thin, and the olive tree shaken (church, Romans 11:17), and there shall only be two or three berries left in it's branches. I believe this speaks of the small number of believers left on the earth, during this hour of the great falling away. The branches are being shaken as we speak, and only a few true believers are to be found,  as God casts away the branches which brought not forth fruit (John 15:2). We are the two or three berries that are left, when the Son of Man returns to an almost faithless earth.

Isaiah 17:3-6
The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.
And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean.
And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim.
Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the LORD God of Israel.



In Christ,

David
Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Sue Landow

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2003, 09:54:28 AM »
"How is the city of praise not left, the city of my joy!"

Well said David. Most certainly Damascus is a type, and not referring to the literal city. Because we are flesh, it is natural for us to look to the things of the world for fulfillment, but we must learn to look at things spiritually.

 Php 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
"And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened". Luke 13:20-21

Erik Diamond

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2003, 11:23:39 AM »
Anyone ever give the thought that it might be both? A world full of physical war and spiritual war? Is there anything which would preclude that?

We always had war in history, no matter how small or great. We also always had earthquakes that claimed many lives, some nothing.  We now have technologies that can record the slightiest earthquakes everywhere, but false prophets are using these record to proves that we experience more earthquakes than before!  Foolish!  What about the time before we ever have earthquake centers? It does not mean that there were less earthquakes before the information age!  We always had deadly dieases, some last a short time, other a long time.  Remember Black Death which is far more deadly than AIDS.  Yet false prophets are using today's sickness such as AIDS, SARS, etc. to scare people.  

Please study world history yourself carefully and you will be surprised that some of the wars were far more terrible than WW1 or WW2 (Try 30  years war, or Sino wars).   Do not follow anyone that suggested that our "generation" is experiencing worst events than before.  They are decieving you.  

What did the bible said about wars? David and Tony have offered verses for your consideration.  The war is spiritually! It is not in blood and flesh.  God is more concerned in our spiritual warfare!   Or do you rather to see a physical war in order to believe what false prophets were screaming about?  Beware of the false prophets, jesus warned.  

Non-elected christians are fighting a losing battle with Satan as we speak.  They go to church every Sunday and did not see anything wrong inside the church. They did not speak out against the abominations in their churches.  They speak in tongues, they jumped up and down feeling good what pastor said.  They posted a large sign outside the church saying "All sinners welcome" or "God is not mad at you". They are trying to make them feel welcomed in the church with full of love without realizing that their churches are under control of Satan.  Satan will allow them to scream "This is my area, you, Satan, cannot have it!".  It means nothing to Satan knowing that he is loosening and in full control of these poor people who thought is serving God of Heaven.  They have great revivals full with blasmphasy song like "Holy Spirit, I need you" or preaching all about being successfully, physically healed and propserity ONLY if you must give money to church.  

We, the Elects, saw what is wrong in the church and have to leave her, leaving the church to Satan control.  Yes you can see churches building everywhere as if they are being blessed of God. Do NOT BE DECEIVED!  They will tell you that the churches are growing because we are living in the Latter Rain, or some sort of blessing.  Even Satan can do it!  He is angel of light!  

We fight a spiritual war, and we come out of her as God commanded. The Great Tribulation will last until everything that God have commanded has been fulfilled. For the Sake of the Elects, not for the sake of burning flag of National Isreal.

Peace,
Erik Diamond
 

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

David Oddo

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2003, 08:33:39 AM »
Quote
"How is the city of praise not left, the city of my joy!"

Well said David. Most certainly Damascus is a type, and not referring to the literal city. Because we are flesh, it is natural for us to look to the things of the world for fulfillment, but we must learn to look at things spiritually.

Hi Sue.

I believe we get a further picture of Damascus being a type of the Church with Paul's "Damascus Road" conversion. As Saul was nearing the city of Damascus, the light from heaven shown round about him...

Acts 9:3
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:


In Damascus Ananias ministered to Paul in his house, and laid his hands on him that he would receive his sight. This pictures believers as we were sent by God, to lay hands on the blind (sick) and see them gain their sight (Mark 16:18).

Acts 9:17
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.


After Paul became saved, Ananias fed him meat (the word of God) in his house, and Paul was strengthened, and  dwelt in Damascus certain days.

Acts 9:18-19
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.


Zechariah 9:1
The burden of the word of the LORD in the land of Hadrach, and Damascus shall be the rest thereof: when the eyes of man, as of all the tribes of Israel, shall be toward the LORD.


But as we read in Isaiah 17:1, we find Damascus is to be Judged and made desolate. The city who is said to be the merchant "for the multitude of all riches".  And certainly the merchants of the Church have brought all the eternal riches to the world. But now no man is to buy her merchandise anymore. And the merchants of the earth (believers) weep, as we realize we are now in the night hour when we can no longer buy and sell....

Ezekiel 27:18
Damascus was thy merchant in the multitude of the wares of thy making, for the multitude of all riches; in the wine of Helbon, and white wool.


Revelation 18:11-13
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.


Sorry to get a bit off topic, Jeff... but infact, I do believe it's directly related to your search in understanding the word of God.

In Christ,
David
Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Kyle

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2003, 12:46:33 PM »
This has been a very captivating and enlightening thread. Almost like an online bible study. You've all gone through verses 5 and 6. Why stop there. Can you shed any light on verses 7 and 8?

 Matthew 24:7
 "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
 All these are the beginning of sorrows."

I understand famine is the lack of the bread of the Word of God. Pestilence and earthquake I'm having a hard time with. And why is it the beginning of sorrows? That would seem to indicate there are more sorrows afterward?

Oneil

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2003, 07:28:46 PM »
This has been a very captivating and enlightening thread. Almost like an online bible study. You've all gone through verses 5 and 6. Why stop there. Can you shed any light on verses 7 and 8?


As a lurker, that is to say, someone who logs on as guest and reads religiously, but seldom if posts, I couldn't agree more. I hope that you bible Gurus will continue on with your examinations of these verses because it's very helpful.

One correction, it is not like an online bible study, it is an online bible study for me. And I suspect many others.

Tony Warren

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2003, 10:12:06 AM »
>>>
 Matthew 24:7
 "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
<<<

Verse seven is illustrating a time when it is brother against brother, kingdom against kingdom and nation against nation. It is a symbolic illustration of spiritual warfare where those ruled by one king are adversarial to those ruled by another king.

Matthew 10:34
  • "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Christ was not talking about a literal, physical warfare, but spiritual war where the people who are not of God would be at odds against the people who are of God. And whosoever would not take up the sword which is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17; Hebews 4:12), is not worthy of God. i.e., it's not talking about a literal war, and this is not talking about a literal peace or peace between earthly nations.

The believers are represented as the chosen, the spiritual Israel, the spiritual Jews, the holy nation, the people of the kingdom of Christ. And the unbelievers are represented spiritually as the reprobates, the the nation of gentiles, the kingdom of Satan. This is one Holy nation and kingdom against the unholy nation and Kingdom of Satan. This is the war spoken of in the preceding verse, not war between literal nation or people. Spiritual war and rumors of wars between spiritual people, nations and kingdoms.

Exodus 19:5
  • "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
  • And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
1st Peter 2:9
  • "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

We are that royal kingship (kingdom of Priests), and that holy nation. One kingdom and nation that is adversarial against another.

The famine is symbolic language to signify a famine (lack of) hearing the word of God. Not literal/physical earthly famines.

Amos 8:11-12
  • "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
  • And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it."

Pestilence is symbolic of spiritual sickness or disease that as a plague comes upon spiritual Egypt come from God. Egypt, that nation that held the children of God in bondage. As we see in Revelation where God is pouring out these spiritual plagues upon the earth. He's not making the world physically sick or deseased, but in Loosing Satan he allows the unfaithful of the church to becomes spiritually sick. Remember, Christ came as the Physician (Matthew 9:12; Mark 2:17) illustrating to heal sin, our spiritual sickness.

Revelation 15:8
  • "And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled."/li]
Revelation 16:9
  • "And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory."
Revelation 18:4
  • "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
Revelation 18:8
  • "Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."

Earthquakes symbolize the shaking of the Lord upon the earth, His judgments upon the world.

Isaiah 24:19-21
  • "The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
  • The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
  • And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth."
Haggai 2:21-22
  • "Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;
  • And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother."

Verse seven is an illustration of the shaking in the judgment of the Lord upon the Kingdoms. Famine and Plagues, these are symbolisms of the end time events which precede the second Advent of Christ.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Robert63

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2003, 11:32:35 AM »
Amen. And when Kingdom comes against kingdom, it's not against itself. it's against another. And one has to fall.

 Luke 11:18
 "If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub."

And to be sure, it's going to be Satan's Kingdom that loses, not God's.

Kyle

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2003, 10:43:34 AM »
Not to be overly persistent, but no one touched on why it was "the beginning of sorrows."

Tony Warren

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2003, 12:26:39 PM »
Quote
>>>
Not to be overly persistent, but no one touched on why it was "the beginning of sorrows."
<<<

The beginning of sorrows I believe speaks to the travailing woman (the Church) as she is in pain because of the time of trouble in God's congregation. I believe that it is a reference to the end times when the church thinks that it has peace and is safe, when in reality it is come under the judgment of God. Consider the prophesy of 1st Thessalonians 5.

1st Thessalonians 5:1-4
  • "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
  • For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
  • For when they shall say, Peace and Safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
  • But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

That word translated travail (odin) is the exact same Greek word that is translated sorrows in Matthew 24. This is the beginnings of travail, struggle or tribulation in the church, when false prophets abound and professed Christians foolishly think they have peace with God and are safe. But they are not safe behind church walls, they are under wrath of God for their rebellion. As Christ coming to them "as a thief" in the night, they shall be broken when they least expect it.

But those who truly know the Lord are not in darkness that this day shall overtake them as a thief. Note that verse 6 says, "Therefore let us not sleep as do others; but let us watch and be sober." This is just as Christ warned the church in this very same Matthew 24 when speaking about this coming Great tribulation and great apostasy--to Watch!

Matthew 24:43
  • "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

The house is the church, and if we do not watch, but sleep without the Spirit to keep our lamps burning, we will find that our house has been broken into by the thief, as judgment "DIRECTLY" from God.

 And as in the parable of the 10 virgins, when the call is made to those sleep, that the bridegroom cometh, we will be found without sufficient oil (Spirit) to light the way to the wedding.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2003, 12:31:40 PM »
Hello Tony Warren  ;)

at 24:6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.

You have already explained what signifies wars and rumors of wars, nation against nations, famines, etc. but why in verse 6 that says the "end is not yet"? If the context in Matthew 24 speaks of "time of the end" predicted by Daniel the Prophet, then why did Jesus said "end is not yet"? Did He talk about His Second Coming or a period of "time of the end"?  ::)

Thanks,
Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2003, 01:02:37 PM »
Quote
>>>
If the context in Matthew 24 speaks of "time of the end" predicted by Daniel the Prophet, then why did Jesus said "end is not yet"? Did He talk about His Second Coming or a period of "time of the end"?
<<<

There are different ends. We are living in the end, as the last days go from the cross until now. But that is not the end of the world. But it's the last chapter.

The context of Matthew 24 is more than just the Lord's second coming, it is prophecy of that which leads up to the Lord's second coming, the signs that signify it, the tribulation preceding it and the fall of the church.

I believe Christ is telling us that the Great tribulation period and departing from the faith, and false Christs and false prophets must take place "Before" the fall of the church and the end of the world. It is not yet the end of the world, it is the beginning of travail. Just as a volcano rumbling before the time of it's actual eruption. There is yet a small time period before Christ returns.

The judgment of the great whore, the coming out, the fall of the church, the standing afar off, this is all "after" the time of great travail, and precedes Christ's second advent.

Revelation 17:16-17
  • "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
  • For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

Until the Words of God are fulfilled.
 
nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2003, 01:17:24 PM »
>>The judgment of the great whore, the coming out, the fall of the church, the standing afar off, this is all "after" the time of great travail, and precedes Christ's second advent.<<

First, the apostasy and travail when the two witnesses were lying dead in the streets. It considers as "beginning of sorrow", right?

Secondly, when the "Spirit of Life" come upon them, they stood up, depart out of church, standing afar off, mourning for the city.


Thirdly, the second coming and the end of the world.

More like First woe, second woe, and third woe?

Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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