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Author Topic: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24  (Read 41121 times)

Jeff

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Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« on: April 01, 2003, 11:41:12 PM »
Matthew chapter 24 is a facinating subject, which the church today holds so many different views on. It is very interesting how we all in reading the same bible, can come to such different opinions about this chapter.

 Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

I will touch on some other verses, but I would like to first start on verse 5.  The many who come claiming to be Christ. Some say this happened when Jerusalem fell, others say it obviously hasn't happened yet, and others say it's happing now (though I don't see how).  Three questions I'd like addressed.

1. How are we to understand this?

2. Can it have already happened, if not, why?

3. How can anyone say we are in the great tribulation if many have not come claiming to be Christ yet?

That should be enough to chew on for now. I think we can all learn something by addressing these questions.

And if we can't answer these, maybe we shouldn't be so dogmatic in our opinions about eschatology. Don't you agree? Who here is so smart that they can't be wrong?

Eagerly awaiting some feedback.

David Oddo

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2003, 12:39:53 AM »
Quote
3. How can anyone say we are in the great tribulation if many have not come claiming to be Christ yet?

Oh, but many are falsely coming in Christ's name, as we speak. Just turn on "Christian television", or take a look at all the churches around your town. Jesus was not saying many will come and say "I am Jesus". Certainly that has happened with extreme nuts like David Koresh and Jim Jones, but of course those antichrists deceived few. He was speaking of people far more deceptive, the false prophets who come in his name, claiming to be speaking for Christ. This is how God's word tells us Satan disguises his ministers...

1 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Scripture teaches us that Satan comes preaching Christ, but it is a false Christ, another Jesus. His false prophets come to us as wolves in sheep's clothing. And they give life to the image of the Beast, the false Christ. And this is why if it were possible the very elect could be deceived.

1 Corinthians 11:3-4
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


The elect would never be deceived by kooks claiming to be Jesus, but if it were possible they could be deceived by the ravenous wolves coming in Christ's name, preaching another Jesus, which is very close to the real Jesus.

Acts 20:28-30
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.


All over in our day people are telling us to come here or there to find Christ's Spirit moving...or this or that church to see Christ working in their midst. "Come to our revival service where the Spirit is moving in big ways", you'll hear.  But when we look at these meetings, we see they are false gospel churches and groups, preaching a false Christ. Satan is sitting in the midst of these congregations ruling. And this is exactly what Jesus warned us would happen during the GT period, when the ministers of Satan would be rampant like no time before. That is why we are not to believe these people, when they tell us, "here is Christ, or there is Christ"...

Matthew 24:23-24
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


In Christ
Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Jeff

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2003, 04:13:12 AM »
David, So you are saying that when Christ says (Mt 24:5) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ and shall deceive many, he is not talking about many coming saying that they are Christ? He's talking about Christians?

I guess that's plausible, but isn't that reaching a bit? Are we really Christ?

David Oddo

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2003, 05:42:53 AM »
Quote
I guess that's plausible, but isn't that reaching a bit? Are we really Christ?

No, we are not Christ. But the believers are the body of Christ, and we are the ambassadors of Christ, coming to the world in His name.

2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.


Satan also has his false apostles come in Christ's name, and that is what is in view in Matthew 24:5. His ministers disguise themselves in sheep's clothing, but they are antichrists. And yes, there are many. As we read, even in the Apostle John's day, there were 'many antichrists' in the world. And of course he was not speaking of many going around in the 1st century saying they were Jesus Christ...

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


Now there have been some nuts claiming to be Jesus Christ, and most of them you will find in prison houses and mental institutions. These flakes have only deceived a few naive people. But the false prophets that come in Christ's name, but preach another Jesus, are to be found all over, and have indeed deceived many...

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


I hope this post goes through. My computer is acting up, and I have just lost 2 posts here.  :(

In Christ,
David
Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

Tony Warren

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2003, 06:13:42 AM »
Quote
>>>
I guess that's plausible, but isn't that reaching a bit? Are we really Christ?
<<<

No, but we are the "representation" of Christ on earth. Christ is the Light of the world, and God says that we are the light of the world. It is because Christ is in us that we are the light of Christ. It's no secret, God speaks of the Church and Christ as being "one." Whomever we are ruled by, we are of that body or generation. If of Christ, then Christ. If of Satan then, Satan. Did not Christ call Peter Satan? He did so simply to "illustrate" that he was savoring the things of Satan. Likewise, we're called of Christ because we do savor the things of Christ.

These deceivers come looking like Christ, but their words are antichrist. Thus, rather than exalt God in the Temple, they exalt themselves, and rather than bear witness to God's word, they speak with their own words. Rather than testify to lawfulness, they find ways to justify lawlessness. Spiritually speaking, they are false Christs in the Temple ruling themselves, instead of ruled by Christ (2nd Thessalonians 2).

I think the key phrases here are Come in my name, and shall deceive many. Those who come in Christ's name are called Christians.

Acts 11:26
"And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

These are those called "Christs." We are of the family of Christ, and thus are called "by His name." The Church is intimately identified with Him, indeed even to be called one, the very body of Christ. These are those who come in His name. We are those created in Christ, and in Him we live and breathe and have our being.

Ephesians 2:10
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Ephesians 2:6
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

Galatians 6:15
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."

So then, those who come claiming that they are Christ, but are not, and so deceive "many," are those coming claiming to be Christs' or Christians, and are not. They are the only ones who possibly could deceive many in doing so. Surely some lunatic come claiming he is literally Christ is not going to deceive the world. However, false Christs' who come as wolves in sheep's clothing will. They are those who falsely take the name of Christ. Just as our Lord spoke of them when He addressed the messenger of the Church at Sardis:

Revelation 3:1
"And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead."

They had the Name of Christ, but they had no life in Christ. They were dead in trespass and sin, but they had taken the name of Christ.

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

judykanova

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2003, 01:31:28 PM »
Jeff,

From the  perspective of those who truly do represent Christ,  I want to offer these additional Scriptures:

Acts 9:4-5
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.


Jesus had already returned to heaven when he confronted Saul (Paul) on the road to Damascus about Paul's
persecution of true believers in the NT church.  Yet Jesus is saying that Paul was persecuting him personally.  This is because the elect of God are one with Christ, just as Christ is one with the Father (Roman 12:5, John 10:30).


Matt 25:35, 37,39 40
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: ...
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


Here Jesus is saying that when true believers minister to one another,  they are ministering to Christ.

So you see Jeff, biblically speaking, this is not "reaching a bit" at all.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

George

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2003, 02:02:57 PM »
I agree Jeff, it's plausible. But let's go on to the next verses.

 Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Do you see that it could be that the war in Iraq, and rumors of war in Korea might be fulfilling this prophecy? Is the marching of the protesters around the world in sorrow for those killed the beginnings of sorrows? Something to think about.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2003, 02:37:13 PM »
No where in Matthew 24 speaks of literal wars, famine, earthquake etc.  These are often used by pre-millennialism to interpret prophecies based on newspaper or tv.    

The wars is spiritual wars that we are seeing in the church as Satan is taking over her.  Earthquake signfies the shaking of the kingdom (Kingdom of God). There is spiritual famine where the gospel have been trampled under foot.  The pestilences signfies spiritual sickness that can not healed anymore now that God have sealed all of his Elects.  

Forget Iraq, North Korea, Hal Lisdney, national Isreal and its temple mount. You will not find anything about these in bible prophecy.  Do not be deceived by those false prophets who kept predicting the outcome of 1991 Desert Storm or current war to try pinpoint when the rapture or the starting of literal 7 year Great Tribulation might start.  You will also not find a single world leader who will make peace treaty between National Isreal and the Arabs. In fact, the Great Tribulation is not bloodbath as you might think it should be at all!  It is spiritiual discerned! Only those with understanding can be able to see what Jesus has warned in Matthew 24.  Turn off your CNN news and start searching in the bible!  The bible is its own intepretation and does not leave anything to man to make up some wild and unbiblical interpretations.  

Peace,
Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

George

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2003, 03:38:49 PM »
Were is your scripture Erik? I don't see anything but your personal opinion. I respect the others who post here because they come with scripture. You just say something as if we're all just supposed to accept it because you say it.

It says nation shall rise up against nation, and there shall be wars and rumors of wars. It says nothing about it has to be spiritual, or it has to be literal. We need to examine the bible to find out how to interpret this. Not just take your personal opinion.

I'm merely saying, it's something to think about. Unless you have scripture showing it wrong, then I still say it's something to think about.

 Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

I just wish both you and Canuk would not be so hostile to people who are trying to understand.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2003, 07:07:14 PM »
George,

First, do you know what is abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel? And do you know what is the holy place? And do you know what represents Judaea, and the mountains?

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

If you don't know or understand them yet, then you will not understand Matthew 24:6-8. You have suggested that they might be literally fulfilled.

No. The holy place in this time of the Cross is the church, where Satan have been bound from (REV 20).  But when he have been loosened, he will come and take over the church. Then Jesus said that "when you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation."  Obviously, he did not talk about a certain war or desolation upon dirt in the middle east.  It is spiritually discerned that only few will understand (Daniel 12:4).  This will not be something easily understood by MANY during the Great Tribulation (or before so-called 7 year tribulation).  It will be very few who will given knowledge by God during the Great Tribulation to start seeing things spiritually so those who understand in JUDAEA will flee.  

Judaea signifies church at this time of cross where christians dwells. When she have become apostate (study Babylon the Great in chapter 18), we are commanded to get out of there and flee to God.  It has to do nothing with national Isreal at all! The context in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 is speaking about the falling of the church during the Great Tribualation.  

Satan did a great job by distracting Christians from spiritual truth to false literal teaching of Matthew 24 without realized what is really going on in their churches! They are too focused on National Isreal, Europe, computer chips, fall and resurrection of Saddam, or massive terrorist acts.  And they will deny that their church is falling. They will deny that Satan have taken over their church.  They will say, 'oh those prophecies are only applying to National Isreal and current world crisis and not their church'.  That is dangerious deception that Jesus and apostate Paul warned about!

If we understand what is abomination of desolation, Judaea, Mountains, and the command of Christ to flee, then the rest of Matthew 24 context become more clear.  

The sun, moon, and stars.  The earthquake, famine, and disease. The nation shall rise again nation and kingdom against kingdom. The ever increasing of false prophets in the church. Division of christian families. All of these, to me, is spiritual discerned because we now know what is abomination of desolation that is NOW taking place in Judaea.

Erik Diamond
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2003, 09:38:02 PM »
For the record, my name is spelled “Erik”, not “Eric’!  ::)

George, you are right that I should response with scripture backing.  I will try to keep all of my responses with scripture backing.  Sometime I have not when I responsed from different computer (ie. work) where I dont have online bible.

I do not know all the answer to great biblical prophecies.  As long as I surrender to the authority of the bible, I learn a great deal by studying!  Yes, I come with a pre-millennialism background and what you asked is nothing new to me.  I do understand where you come from because when I first visited Tony Warren’s site with a mix of a millennialism and pre-millennialism views, I started to see the truth by studying the bible, not listening to some prophets on TV or books.  The Holy Spirit is our teacher and only Him that will open our eyes to the truth.  Always examine what you heard with the bible, not “left behind” series.  

Have you visited Tony Warren’s home page, members.aol.com/twarren10.  It has rich of biblical prophecy studies as well as general studies.  I strongly recommend that you read his studies starting with Revelation 20 (Thousand Years) then Daniel 7 (70th week).  However, some of us will be happy to explain our point of view on Matthew 24.  I believe that we have covered Matthew 24:6-8, but if you have further questions about them. Ask away.

Erik Diamond
 
P.S.  Thank you Canuk for nice comment about me.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Robert63

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2003, 11:27:42 PM »
 1st Timothy 1:18-19 "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:"

 2nd Co 10:4-5 "(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

God's ways are not our ways George. His peace is not our peace, and his war is not our war. Maybe some others can explain this better than I. But wars don't have to be literal wars.

Jeff

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2003, 01:56:10 AM »
I agree Jeff, it's plausible. But let's go on to the next verses.

 Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.


Most people that I know look at this as speaking about literal wars. It doesn't say spiritual warfare, it says wars. Think of this in conjunction with the man of sin. If he were to have controll over nations (The UN maybe), and bring them against Israel, he could wage literal wars. What proves it means otherwise? Like George says, you've got to prove it, not just say it.

Jeff

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2003, 01:58:25 AM »
Ok, you all have this view. But you have to show me where it says there is a prophecy of wars that are not literal wars.

David Oddo

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Re: Expositions of Matthew Chapter 24
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2003, 02:52:25 AM »
Ok, you all have this view. But you have to show me where it says there is a prophecy of wars that are not literal wars.

Hi Jeff.
The GT revolves around the spiritual battle of Satan and his armies marshalling against the saints.

Daniel 7:21
I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;


Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


This is not a battle fought with tanks and artillery. This is a spiritual warfare, that begins with the loosing of Satan at the beginning of the GT. God lets Satan loose, and in doing so, Satan overcomes the saints. God has let Satan loose because he is now bringing Judgment on the church (Jerusalem), for all her abominations. We read that Judgment must begin at the house of God (1 Peter 4:17). And we read about this battle that is taking place in Zechariah 14...

Zechariah 14:2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.


The Apostates are being devoured by Satan's locust army, and being given over to the strong delusion of the Beast. This is exactly why God has let Satan loose, as an instrument of His Judgment. The same reason he loosed the Babylonians (which are a picture of the Kingdom of Satan), against the Nation of Judah in the 6th century BC--to bring Judgment. The saints have been silenced for a short season, while God pours out his 7 vials of wrath upon the earth. But after God is finished using Satan for his own purposes, Christ and his armies will prevail against the armies of Satan, and Satan and his armies will be defeated.

Revelation 19:19-20
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


Revelation 20:7-9
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


There have been physical wars in the world since the beginning of civilization, and there will be up until the last day.. but the GT centers around a far more important spiritual battle, that it is being waged as we speak. And Christ shall be victorious in the end. Amen.

Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.



In Christ
Jeremiah 23:29
Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

 


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