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Author Topic: The Sin of The Tower of Babel  (Read 3028 times)

Wanda

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The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« on: November 28, 2004, 06:48:33 PM »
Our study this week is the story of the tower of Babel. I have been reading of this tower and I really can't figure out what was the sin of building a tall tower? Would building the towering world trade center be a sin? Would building the tower of Piza in Itally be a sin? If not, then what was the sin of man building the tower of Babel?

Scot

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2004, 09:40:35 PM »
Building a tower was not a sin in and of itself. It was the people's defiance and rebellion against God that was a sin. Noah's descendents had ignored the command to replenish the earth and wouldn't seperate. When it speaks of a tower " whose top might reach to heaven" it's showing their defiance of God. This was done under the leadership of Nimrod who seems to making a sort of monarchy rather than having God as king.

I'm sure others on the board can elaborate further.

Dwight

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2004, 05:09:29 AM »
Have you ever considered that building the twin towers in New York was a sin, and that is why God had them destroyed?

 Gen 11:5
  "And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded."

Don't think that those towers fell by accident, they fell by God's divine providence because man gets too big for his britches.

The same thing with the building of the so-called unsinkable Titantic. These are but a few of the great structures built by man that God destroyed in order to show him that he was not the great creator that he imagines that he is. Man progressess and thinks that he is so big that he doesn't need God anymore. He's got evolution, he's got his magnificient buildings, he's got his control over embryos, cell and genes of the body, and soon he'll be cloning. In his mind, he is his own God. And these structures man builds, like the tower of babel and the Titanic, are examples of man's vanity and self idolatry. The same sin of babel.

Don't think that the people of Babel were any different from the builders of today who are likewise attempting to remove God from their society in their minds idolizing themselves. You should really think about that and you'll see this is true.

Bunyan

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2004, 10:08:22 AM »
Dwight, have you read the article by C. M. McMahon called the tower of Babel Revisited?

http://www.apuritansmind.com/Apologetics/TowerOfBabelRevisited.htm

He seems to think that contemporary movies, TV, and film makers are banding together in a war against God. His conclusion is that Babel is a way of thinking.
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Drew

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2004, 03:28:17 AM »
The sin of the tower of babel was their desire to be a one world government, to all be one people. The races weree separated because they wanted to be one people.

judykanova

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2004, 04:18:12 AM »
Gen 11:1-9 
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2  And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3  And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4  And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5  And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6  And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.[/b]
7  Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9  Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


One has to to ask why these people wanted to build a tower of such magnitude.  Answer is given in verse 4 -- "to make a name for themselves lest they be scattered abroad".  This in my opinion reflects several things...
   - Vanity & Pride ("let us make us a name")
   - And as Scot noted, this was in-your-face Rebellion against the command to multiple and replenish the earth ("lest we be scattered abroad")
   - Self-worship and/or Idolotry (a monumental building that reaches to heaven)

There are Scriptures galore dealing with all of these age-old sins, for "there is nothing new under the sun'.   But more importantly, the specific reason I believe God intervened is given in verse 6 -- namely in order to restrain sin.

Consider that the first generations of men lived for hundreds of years, and with such accumulation of knowledge, were capable of great feats. They were not as weakened physically and mentally as are men today; (as I've heard it said, man started out super smart but 'dumbed-down' over time.)  Although modern man (in preparation for the end) has been allowed to have an 'upswing' in knowledge'.  And as usual, such knowledge is misued -- is used in defiance against God instead of to the glory of God. 

Pro 29:16 
When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.



God has His set times and plans for carrying out His purposes regarding man, salvation, and final judgement.  If He didn't restrain sin, things would rapidly deteriorate 'before their time', to the point where I believe we are now headed --great spiritual famine, wide-spread apostasy in the church, lack of reverance for life and the sanctity of marraige, denial of the sovereignty of God our Creator and Savior,  .... the list is endless. 

God intervenes constantly in the affairs of men, and there are indeed consequences to sin -- for the believer and unbeliever alike.  In this instance of the tower of Babel, He forced men to scatter across the earth (which they should have done to begin with) by confusing their language and halting the building of the tower.  More dire consequences can be seen at other times in the Bible -- most notably in the great flood, with God starting over with Noah and His family, and the utter destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah. 

Indeed, God's first intervention occured with the fall of Adam and Eve, during which God drove them away from the garden of Eden and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

Gen 3:22-23
22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23  Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken
.

Such misuse of knowlege and power in the hands of men cannot be long permitted, for the hearts of men are 'desperately wicked'.

Jer 17:9 
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


God's interventions continue into modern times, although they are more difficult to define and understand because they aren't recorded in the Bible, and we don't have the same vantage point.  However, the Bible lets us know one thing for sure...  that during end-times,  even the coporate church will forsake the true faith and there will be great tribulation such as in no other time in the history of mankind, because instead of restraining sin, God will 'give men up' to all manner of abominations.  Yet even then, God in His mercy will 'shorten' the time, lest even the elect perish, and no faith can be found on the face of the earth when He returns.

Rom 1:21-26  
21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Mat 24:21-22
21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


judy
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Kenneth White

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2004, 07:14:44 AM »

There are Scriptures galore dealing with all of these age-old sins, for "there is nothing new under the sun'.   But more importantly, the specific reason I believe God intervened is given in verse 6 -- namely in order to restrain sin.


judy


Well done Judy. I believe that this sums up the reasons very well. I do not believe that it was to keep the people separate, or to prevent unity, or even that people weren't filling the earth (I think they were) it was because God's purpose here is to restrain sin.

Genesis 11:6
 "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."


If God hadn't done this to hold back man, nothing would have been restrained from men that they have imagined to do. All hell on earth would have broken loose. The world would have become such that God would have had to destroy it before the appointed time. So God in his providence intervened.

Here's something to note. All the great civilizations that have ever been on the earth, from the Moors, to the Egyptians, the Chinese, the greeks, the Roman empire, etc., they have all been brought down by God that man should not glory in himself.

Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Nikki

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2004, 05:30:38 AM »
Dwight, you have made a very interesting post in my view. That no one commented on it tells me that the thought has cross more minds than mine and yours. I have thought about this sort of thing on and off for a few years now.

You bring up some of my concerns. Another is the space program where man seems to be attempting to find salvation in the stars. Is man building his way to the heavens just as in the days of Babel? My concern is that America not repeat the sin of the Tower of Babel, but it may be to late. In the space program are usually an assorted collection of atheist scientists, and they always give these vessels to the stars names like "Divine Vessel", "Columbia," "Atlas," "Gemini," "Mercury," "Titan," "Discovery," "Enterprise," "Challenger," "pathfinder," "Atlantis," "Endeavor," and "Apollo." All names challenging God, and illustrating the atheistic nature of the program. Do you think that this is an offense to God which masks a greater problem?


Dwight

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2004, 04:27:00 AM »
Dwight, you have made a very interesting post in my view. That no one commented on it tells me that the thought has cross more minds than mine and yours. I have thought about this sort of thing on and off for a few years now.


Do you know that there is a very conserted effort on the part of secular historians to discredit the Bible like never before? They are now doing everything they can to try and discredit the teachings of the bible as not having really occured, and Christ as just a man who deceived people into following him. The world has never been so anti christ and anti christian as it is today. You can teach muslim religion without anyone complaining, but as soon as you put up a christmas light or speak of christianity, everyone wants to protest it and take it to court. These are really bad times for true christians and I think very much as the time of babel. Our tower are our space stations, skyscrapers, bank accounts, TV Antenas, and bank accounts. We have all sorts of gods and idolatry that lifts itself up to the heavens.


Quote
My concern is that America not repeat the sin of the Tower of Babel, but it may be to late. In the space program are usually an assorted collection of atheist scientists, and they always give these vessels to the stars names like "Divine Vessel", "Columbia," "Atlas," "Gemini," "Mercury," "Titan," "Discovery," "Enterprise," "Challenger," "pathfinder," "Atlantis," "Endeavor," and "Apollo." All names challenging God, and illustrating the atheistic nature of the program. Do you think that this is an offense to God which masks a greater problem?

Yes, I really do. I think that there are more false christians today than there has ever been in history, and more anti christian people than ever has been. True believers are very rare in my view and even some of those seek to make a great name for themselves like those in Babel did. And look at the movement to have unity in the different churches. Babel means confusion, and they wanted unity also.

Also, I think the time of babel, and the time of Noah, was pretty much alike.


Melanie

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 09:26:52 AM »
True believers are very rare in my view and even some of those seek to make a great name for themselves like those in Babel did. And look at the movement to have unity in the different churches. Babel means confusion, and they wanted unity also.

Also, I think the time of babel, and the time of Noah, was pretty much alike.

 That's a good point. And Babel became Babylon, which is now the representation of the captivity. Perhaps it was the same mind to exalt itself, worship itself as god, use the tower to make homage to itself. I can see the likeness of how man is today, thinking he is God. I definitely see it.

Did God bring the twin towers down? I would say yes. No disaster like that happens except God permits it.


judykanova

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2011, 06:11:54 AM »
True believers are very rare in my view and even some of those seek to make a great name for themselves like those in Babel did. And look at the movement to have unity in the different churches. Babel means confusion, and they wanted unity also.

Also, I think the time of babel, and the time of Noah, was pretty much alike.

 That's a good point. And Babel became Babylon, which is now the representation of the captivity. Perhaps it was the same mind to exalt itself, worship itself as god, use the tower to make homage to itself. I can see the likeness of how man is today, thinking he is God. I definitely see it.

Did God bring the twin towers down? I would say yes. No disaster like that happens except God permits it.



I don’t think we can rightly say that God brought the twin towers down.  Wicked men brought down the twin towers.

Jer 17:9  
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


Pro 29:16  
When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.


What you are saying goes back to the question of whether or not God can be blamed for every bad thing that happens in the world – murders, rapes, hate crimes, … the list is endless.

We know that God restrains sin, according to His divine purpose and set times.  Otherwise we would have destroyed ourselves and this world long ago.  Mankind is again on a downward spiral of destruction.   Look at our pollution of the environment – causing an ecological imbalance witnessed in such things a global warning and the disappearance of the bees which play an integral part in the pollination of our very food supply – all in the name of “progress”.   Was the industrial revolution a good thing? – not when done irresponsibly.   Men have been horrible stewards of this earth and its many blessings – the air, the water, the trees….

God also removes His hand of restraint according to His purposes and set times.  So in regards to those wicked men who destroyed the twin towers, that sin is fully theirs, not God’s.   Such sins will increase in direct proportion to God’s lessening retraints, but it’s man, not God who is responsible and will be judged for those sins.

What about those who lost loved one in those planes and twin towers? Should they rail against and blame God?  Some may,  but mankind as a whole is to blame.

Blame the nations that breed terrorists as well as our own nation which was founded on biblical principals and has been blessed in my ways, but has turned from God and become “high-minded”.

1Timothy 6:17
  "Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;"

Proverbs 18:11
  "The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit."


Those planes breached our “high walls” and “strong city”. And despite the efforts of some, the "conceit" of this nation remains high and our strength is increasingly dependent upon onward things (armies and weapons) rather than inward things -- biblical values, integrity, and reliance on God and His boundless strength and ability to fight our battles and keep our enemies at bay.

Blame the churches which for the most part have become worldly and abandoned the great commission to be a light on the hill and spread the true Gospel.  

Matthew 5:
13  Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14  Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15  Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16  Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


How far the church has fallen!

Blame the man in the mirror, when we allow pride, fear, any sinful thought or action and the cares of this world to weaken our spirit and our witness to others, even that of a good example that brings glory to God.

Psalms 51:17
  "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
Psalms 139
23  Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
24  And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.


judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Reformer

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2011, 07:48:36 AM »

Also, I think the time of babel, and the time of Noah, was pretty much alike.

Did God bring the twin towers down? I would say yes. No disaster like that happens except God permits it.


I don't think we can rightly say that God brought the twin towers down.  Wicked men brought down the twin towers.



Judy,
  First let me say that I agree with everything that you've said. But that doesn't mean that God didn't bring down the twin towers. Yes, I know that wicked men drew up the plans and flew the planes, but it was not outside of the sovereign will of God. Or else it wouldn't have happened. The wicked did the same things in the Old Testament. And yet often God says that He sent these wicked men or these armies. Did the Israelites conquer Canaan or was it God who did it for his own purposes?  All of us are but putty in the hands of God. There are many reasons God sends evil, disasters or some distruction where lots of people die because of wicked men. Because in the long run, God is sovereign and without God allowing those Towers to fall, they would have remained standing.

No, God didn't make those men do wickedly. But God sure let them do it. It is a subtle difference, but where God often takes credit for something like this. I think the question is, did God bring down those Towers for his own good purposes, or was it just an example of man's wickedness, God having no sovereignty over it?  I would say God had full control over it.  I think it was a warning shot across the bow of this great country. Just as many that he has given before. God allowed those wicked to build the Tower of Babel for wickedness before it fell. But then it was God's will that it fall, and that the people be scattered.  I don't think that God can be removed from the equation. Not that you were trying to, it is just that I believe God has his hand in all great disasters. Man is supposed to learn from them that security is only in God, but all too often man just relegates these things to being outside God's will.

One thing I will agree with Melanie on also. Something devastating like that doesn't happen except God allow it, and he did so for a reason. he obviously wanted to get man's attention. Do you agree or disagree with that? I have no problem with saying God brought the Twin Towers down, even though he didn't fly the planes. Just as God buried the city of Pompeii, even though it was a natural disaster. Or that God caused the fall of the Roman Empire. I don't think that we give God enough credit for his sovereignty.

 Isaiah 45:7
  "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

God does all these things because evil is any bad things that happen, in this context. That would be wars, earthquakes or planes flying into historic buildings killing thousands. Nothing is done outside of God's purpose and will. I give the example Tony often gives. Did God harden Pharaoh's heart, or did Pharaoh harden it? The correct answer is both. Did wicked men crucify Christ or did God give the power to wicked men to crucify Christ? It is the same argument for Reformed Christians. Because God is sovereign. Your thoughts?


Melanie

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2011, 07:38:32 PM »
I don’t think we can rightly say that God brought the twin towers down.  Wicked men brought down the twin towers.

Jer 17:9  
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?


Pro 29:16  
When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.


What you are saying goes back to the question of whether or not God can be blamed for every bad thing that happens in the world – murders, rapes, hate crimes, … the list is endless.

Well no, I don't think I am blaming God fore sin. I'm just saying that God is sovereign even over those planes crashing into the Twin Towers on 9/11.

Quote
We know that God restrains sin, according to His divine purpose and set times.  Otherwise we would have destroyed ourselves and this world long ago.

I agree Judy. Therefore God could have restrained these men from taking those planes and crashing them into those buildings in any number of ways. but He didn't. Which means that it was in His permissive will that this event occur.


Quote
 Mankind is again on a downward spiral of destruction.   Look at our pollution of the environment – causing an ecological imbalance witnessed in such things a global warning and the disappearance of the bees which play an integral part in the pollination of our very food supply – all in the name of “progress”.   Was the industrial revolution a good thing? – not when done irresponsibly.   Men have been horrible stewards of this earth and its many blessings – the air, the water, the trees…. God also removes His hand of restraint according to His purposes and set times.

I agree, man has always been a selfish being. So it doesn't surprise me that he has made a mess of things for any future. And it is all to God's purpose and by his will. Which goes to my point. God let those buildings come down for His purpose, which I believe was to make a point and give warning to men. Don't think you stand, lest ye fall.


Quote
 So in regards to those wicked men who destroyed the twin towers, that sin is fully theirs, not God’s.   Such sins will increase in direct proportion to God’s lessening retraints, but it’s man, not God who is responsible and will be judged for those sins.

I agree it is man who is fully responsible for sin. But I do not agree that it is not God who brought the Twin Towers down. man is used as a tool in the hand of God. There are many examples of this in the bible.


Quote
What about those who lost loved one in those planes and twin towers? Should they rail against and blame God?  Some may,  but mankind as a whole is to blame.

I think maybe you misunderstand me. I'm not blaming God for man's sin. I'm saying God is the one who decides who dies and [n]when[/b] they die, not those terrorists on the plane. God is in charge, not those wicked men, God is the sovereign who rules when planes crash, who dies when they do, and who walks away from one. It is all by the will and purpose of God.


Quote
Blame the nations that breed terrorists as well as our own nation which was founded on biblical principals and has been blessed in my ways, but has turned from God and become “high-minded”.

1Timothy 6:17
  "Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;"

Man has always been high minded with murder in his heart, but he has not always crashed planes into sky scrapers to kill thousands. There have always been earthquakes, but there has not always been earthquakes that kill thousands, except the Lord have his hand in it.


Sportsnut

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 06:48:50 AM »

There is a thin line in this we have to walk. We don't want to become like that crazy individual from the 700 club, who everytime some disaster strikes a nation says God is angry with that nation and judging them. I don't believe that for a second. Is there a difference between judgment and warning? I might be able to see where God is using disasters as a warning, but I don't see judgment of the specific people. Was Japan more evil than China or Iran? Was Haiti more evil than Somalia? So I think God might be demonstrating something as a warning, but not really judging a nation that is so worse than other nations, as some TV preachers are claiming.

As for the Tower of Babel, wasn't the sin one of pride? And not that they wanted to build a tall building?

judykanova

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Re: The Sin of The Tower of Babel
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 10:53:28 AM »
Melanie and Reformer,

God indeed is sovereign and knows the end from the beginning.  So let me first say I understand what you  are saying.  However,  a statement like “God brought down the twin towers”  can be misleading/misunderstood  whereby blame is shifted to God instead of man where it rightly belongs.  You both have subsequently elaborated to say “God’s permissive will” and “allows”, which more closely reflects  what I think we all can agree on.

God knew that Adam/Eve would succumb to sin before the world was created.  The consequences of sin,  both singular and cumulative,  will ultimately lead to the destruction of this world – according to God’s exact  set time and divine purpose.  God set things in motion from the beginning, such that things like “natural” disasters” are, I believe, the cumulative consequences of man's pollution of the earth, motivated by selfish greed, in disregard of the impact on future generations, and reflects man’s poor stewardship of the earth’s bounty which God gave man dominion over.

When God removes His hand of restraint on sin, He allows man to go his own way – which leads to natural disasters, and to such events as the twin towers – all foreknown by God before the foundation of the world, and all according to God’s set time and divine purpose.

Isaiah 53:6
  "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

Isaiah 56:11
  "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."


Reformer, I want to thank you for the verse from Job, given in a related thread, because sometimes “evil”  things happen that are beyond our understanding – say for example a sudden, accidental death of a loved one, or (as with Job) a sudden, unexplainable personal calamity.  Even then, we have no right to question or blame God.  We must only trust God fully, for the alternative is death and despair.

Job 2
7  So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
8  And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
9  Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
10  But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.


judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

 


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