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Theology / Re: The Renting of the Veil
« Last post by Doug Johnson on Today at 02:42:33 AM »
Amen! The torn veil, the earthquakes, the rent rocks, the resurrection, and particularly Christ saying "it is Finished" all at his death, indicates the completed work of Christ that gives us access to God.

Personally, I think Pentecost wasn't really the start of the church, but rather a sign of a new dispensation of the church. A sign that it would spread to the ends of the earth, rather than to just Israel.

Let's not get antisemitic here, God didn't reject Israel he included Gentiles in his salvation plan.

I would recommend this article and anyone interested in seeing the full writeup should go to the Catholic Answers Website

The Ripping of the Veil
by Michelle Arnoldby

One of the classes I took was on the Jewish rituals surrounding death. In particular I was fascinated by the ritual known as keriyah (Hebrew, "tearing"). When a Jew learns of the death of a close relative, he is expected to tear what he is wearing—in modern times, usually a shirt, because that is the garment that covers the heart:

    When a close relative (parent, sibling, spouse, or child) first hears of the death of a relative, it is traditional to express the initial grief by tearing one's clothing. The tear is made over the heart if the deceased is a parent, or over the right side of the chest for other relatives. This tearing of the clothing is referred to as keriyah. . . . The mourner recites the blessing describing G–d as "the true Judge," an acceptance of G–d's taking of the life of a relative.

Discussion of keriyah continued in class, with the teacher demonstrating how it was done and explaining why actually tearing the garment that is being worn is more meaningful than cutting a ribbon (as some Jews do as a modern symbolic substitute, rather than ruining their clothes).

Original context should be rediscovered. I think one of the reasons that anti-Semitic interpretations of the rending of the Temple veil could take hold is because we are two thousand years removed from the original context in which the historical event of the crucifixion took place. A detail of the passion and death of Jesus Christ that the evangelists included, and which would have been an enormous consolation to their Jewish Christian audiences, has been interpreted by some Christians to indicate a divine repudiation of God's relationship with the Jewish people. Rediscovering original context can do much to repair this type of injustice. As the Second Vatican Council said in Dei Verbum, its document on divine revelation:

    To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to "literary forms." For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking, and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another (DV 12).
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Apologetics / Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Last post by Doug Johnson on Today at 02:34:32 AM »
Well. That's certainly not the Catholic interpretation. Have you gone renegade Doug?

Not at all, just stating a fact that I hope is not lost.
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Apologetics / Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Last post by Dan on Today at 01:23:44 AM »
 )inter( Renegade or not, Catholic or protestant, the only question is, is he right? The context is a sword, not a flower. The context is warfare, not peace. The context is Jesus bringing us a sword to do battle. That is equivalent to today's guns is it not? That's the context.
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Apologetics / Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Last post by ZeroCool on Yesterday at 10:15:15 PM »
Well. That's certainly not the Catholic interpretation. Have you gone renegade Doug?
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Apologetics / Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Last post by Doug Johnson on Yesterday at 05:46:17 PM »
The context is a sword, not a flower.
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Apologetics / Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Last post by aquatic on Yesterday at 01:32:01 PM »
Moreover, Christ's confirmed in Matthew 10:34 that he approves the sword. Tony's not the only one who can show scripture.
Quote
Do not think that I have come to send peace upon the earth: I have not come to send peace, but a sword. [Matthew 10:34]


Read that in context. Christ used the sword as symbolism for division. Division between those in the same household. Believers and unbelievers.

I didn't read anything about family in that verse and I didn't read any word symbol. And what about the Luke scripture I just posted?
[/quote]

I said read it in context. Let me do it for you then:

Matthew 10:34-36
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

It’s also in Luke again, except this time the word sword is actually replaced with division:


Luke 12:51-53

51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.




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Theology / Re: The Renting of the Veil
« Last post by Margaret on Yesterday at 11:35:33 AM »
 )ditto( Another nice article Melanie.
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Apologetics / Re: Why are there so few Christians in Japan?
« Last post by Drew on Yesterday at 05:34:49 AM »
Quote
It's like Pearson said. Nothing is by coincidence, nor were the calamities because God thinks Japan is so much worse than Egypt, China or the Netherlands. God could stop it, he doesn't and so it's ordained.

How does that make sense?  )hammerhead(

 )smileyBounce(  )smileyBounce( I hear you brother. That makes no sense! It's circular reasoning.


Thank you. At least someone here understands the view Calvin invented is a opinion that doesn't make sense, not something we should follow after.
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Apologetics / Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Last post by Drew on Yesterday at 05:31:11 AM »
I do not agree with Tony on the actions of the Patriots, the gun in churches or sitting back and accepting undue taxes, or police states or tyranny from governments.

Do you not agree with Christ? He paid taxes and accepted the tyranny of Rome.


I do not agree with Tony but yes, I agree with Christ. As for him paying taxes, they weren't taxed to death on everything like we are now. Do you really think he would stand for the unfair taxes we have today from state, local and federal?  And he told us to buy swords.

He said therefore to them, But now he that has a purse let him take [it], in like manner also a scrip, and he that has none let him sell his garment and buy a sword; [Luke 22:36]


Moreover, Christ's confirmed in Matthew 10:34 that he approves the sword. Tony's not the only one who can show scripture.
Quote
Do not think that I have come to send peace upon the earth: I have not come to send peace, but a sword. [Matthew 10:34]


Read that in context. Christ used the sword as symbolism for division. Division between those in the same household. Believers and unbelievers.

I didn't read anything about family in that verse and I didn't read any word symbol. And what about the Luke scripture I just posted?
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Theology / Re: The Renting of the Veil
« Last post by ZeroCool on Yesterday at 12:32:35 AM »
That was a good read. Thanks for sharing it.
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