The Mountain Retreat

Biblical Discussions => Apologetics => Topic started by: Apostolic on March 22, 2020, 02:19:46 AM

Title: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Apostolic on March 22, 2020, 02:19:46 AM

Christian Ministry leader Paseka “Pastor Mboro” Motsoeneng says God told him in 2019 that there would be an outbreak this year. That there is proves he was correct and sent a messenger. Shouldn't we be looking more to modern prophecy to explain to us concerning the Coronavirus and not to world leaders? Being distinctly Pentecostal in doctrine, I understand prophesy that is slowly shaping the church to take note of these things.

In a video shared on his site Prophet Mboro Facebook page says some interesting things (see here)

https://www.facebook.com/prophetmborotime/videos/2779913265408358/

 Mboro said he prophesied about Covid-19 last year, after receiving a message from God. We should be more attuned to the signs of the times. Don't be so sure these aren't the signs prophesied in the bible of plagues and pestilence. The spirit told me there is truth to this. The church has to start opening its eyes to the holy ghost and start accepting the wisdom of the "modern" gift of prophecy.

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 22, 2020, 02:47:39 AM
 
Quote from: Apostolic
Mboro said he prophesied about Covid-19 last year, after receiving a message from God. We should be more attuned to the signs of the times. Don't be so sure these aren't the signs prophesied in the bible of plagues and pestilence. The spirit told me there is truth to this. The church has to start opening its eyes to the holy ghost and start accepting the wisdom of the "modern" gift of prophecy.

It seems that our truthful testimony has fallen upon your deaf ears.  You go ahead and believe whatever you want by go and buy what your false prophets are selling. 

Mat 25:8-9
(8 )  And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
(9)  But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Apostolic on March 22, 2020, 03:01:15 AM
I don't know what that means. Can you elaborate? I simply said I think we should be more attuned to prophecy. You are aware the bible speaks of plagues coming upon us?
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Stan Pat on March 22, 2020, 08:26:48 AM
I don't know what that means. Can you elaborate? I simply said I think we should be more attuned to prophecy. You are aware the bible speaks of plagues coming upon us?

Apostolic, yes but what prophecy? There are all kinds of plagues. Furthermore, God didn't speak to that man, unless he did so from the Bible.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Oneil on March 22, 2020, 11:20:37 AM
Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?

No. The plagues are spiritual, not literal. Just like the plague of locusts in Revelation 9. They are not literal locusts, they are men with the power of the scorpion.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 22, 2020, 12:34:13 PM
(http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/Smileys/new/amen.gif)
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Dan on March 22, 2020, 06:08:08 PM
I don't know what that means. Can you elaborate? I simply said I think we should be more attuned to prophecy. You are aware the bible speaks of plagues coming upon us?

I am, but you'll get no bible answer from Erik. A lot of Christians believe that this is a plague brought by god Apostolic. It may be a precursor to the pretribulation rapture.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Mark on March 22, 2020, 06:41:34 PM
Mboro said he prophesied about Covid-19 last year, after receiving a message from God. We should be more attuned to the signs of the times. Don't be so sure these aren't the signs prophesied in the bible of plagues and pestilence. The spirit told me there is truth to this. The church has to start opening its eyes to the holy ghost and start accepting the wisdom of the "modern" gift of prophecy.

Yes but what “spirit” told you there is truth to this. If God didn’t say it in his word, than God didn’t say it.

1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Tony Warren on March 24, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
>>>
I simply said I think we should be more attuned to prophecy.
<<<

I agree that we should. And "that" prophecy we should be more attuned to is the declaration of the word of God directly from the unadulterated Bible alone. Not from men who claim to be having personal messages sent to them supernaturally from on high. The Prophecy today is given to us through God's word alone, revealed as truth by the Holy Spirit. That Holy Spirit is within every single child of God and is the only reason that we "receive" the truth while others reject its witness. I can tell you that whenever we are bearing faithful witness to the word of God concerning His divine plan, we are true witnesses to prophecy. The imagery of the two witnesses of Revelation chapter eleven "represents" the true witnesses of God with the power of the Holy Spirit to be the only true prophets today.

Revelation 11:3

They are clothed in sackcloth because they are in "mourning" for those who are not attuned to God's prophecy and therefore miss the signs "represented" by plagues, famine, blood, locusts and such. For the truth is, God's ways and thoughts are not the ways and thoughts of modern men and their ideas of prophecy. God's prophecy will always come to pass, but not always in the way that man thinks it should. i.e., all Israel will not be saved in the way that man's thoughts might perceive it, yet it is a faithful truth that all Israel shall be saved. God's word has gone forth, but the question is, who will "hear" it. Indeed, who has the ears to hear it? Selah.

Isaiah 55:8-11

Indeed, as Christians, we should be more attuned to prophecy. But if we were all attuned to prophecy there would be no need for God to send strong delusion or judgment upon the church, no need for the plagues of Locusts, blood or darkness. So we never will all be attuned, for that is not God's plan. So he who hath an ear, His plan is that he that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches.


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>>>
You are aware the bible speaks of plagues coming upon us?
<<<

I am aware. Are you aware God speaks of a famine, but not of a dearth of food and water, but of hearing the word (Amos 8 ) of God? Likewise, The prophecy or prognostication that God's word speaks of concerning plague and pestilence is the current infectious epidemic of sin and unrighteousness of those in the unfaithful church. It is the word of God declaring a plague which is the judgment word upon that which has become spiritually as Egypt, and as abominable as Sodom. A judgment that is as much diseased, boil or tumorous as any physical plague, and just as faminous as a lack of food or water. Waters of blood just as deadly to drink as the plagues of Egypt. We have preached, testified, and witnessed of that prophesy from God as fire from our mouths, and our witness of these plagues has come to fruition.

Revelation 11:6-8

The faithful witnesses who have the power that it doesn't rain, and that the water is turned to blood, and to smite the earth with plagues, are the faithful witnesses who come in the Power of the Holy Spirit in the truth of God's word. It is "these" witnesses who have prophesied of the coming plagues, not the charlatans pretending to speak for God. The faithful witnesses who actually speak the word of God by quoting His word "as His Messengers." So yes, we are aware that the Bible speaks and has spoken, of the plagues coming upon us. But, like the people of physical Egypt of years ago, the people's hearts are hardened. Just as the false TV preachers today with their tricks and sleight of hand, the magicians of Egypt did false signs and with their enchantments and the people's heart was hardened.

...as saith the preacher, there is nothing new under the sun.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Tony Warren on March 24, 2020, 02:36:53 PM
>>>
A lot of Christians believe that this is a plague brought by god Apostolic.
<<<

Since God is GOD, supreme and preeminent, and nothing either good or evil happens that he doesn't allow (Job 2:10), indeed God ultimately allows this plague by His own goodwill and for His own sovereign purposes. God allows Cancer, Deaths, Famine, Murders, Earthquakes, and Floods. Since He could very easily stop anyone of those things from happening. That doesn't equate to God coming down from the mountain to have a miraculous conversation with a Televangelist or Evangelical.  The two are unrelated.


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>>>
It may be a precursor to the pretribulation rapture.
<<<

There is no pretribulation rapture. That is a doctrine that is found nowhere in the prophecy of God's word, it is an extrabiblical idea that has been promulgated in some churches. Something the Lord has not said, and that His word teaches against.

If you (or anyone) are really interested in researching the question, Here are a few articles that may help you understand there is no pretribulation rapture.

http://mountainretreatorg.net/searchit/searchit.cgi?Pretribulation%20Rapture

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Drew on March 24, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
I agree that we should. And "that" prophecy we should be more attuned to is the declaration of the word of God directly from the unadulterated Bible alone.

Why are you always so dogmatic with your comments. You act as if yours is the absolute truth and everything anyone else says is just wrong When I heard about this virus, the first thing I thought about was biblical prophecy. But I'm supposed to just believe you?

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Mark on March 24, 2020, 06:49:35 PM
When I heard about this virus, the first thing I thought about was biblical prophecy. But I'm supposed to just believe you?

And that is what is called Eisegesis the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text like when God’s word mentions a plague therefore that equals Ebola or Covid-19 depending on context of what’s happening in the world at the time. You see you can read anything into scripture that way and it may sound right if our eyes on this world. For example the church could of thought the same way when the Spanish flu went pandemic back in 1919 but that is not what the plagues of God are.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Diane Moody on March 24, 2020, 11:03:28 PM
There is no pretribulation rapture. That is a doctrine that is found nowhere in the prophecy of God's word, it is an extrabiblical idea that has been promulgated in some churches. Something the Lord has not said, and that His word teaches against.

If you (or anyone) are really interested in researching the question, Here are a few articles that may help you understand there is no pretribulation rapture.

http://mountainretreatorg.net/searchit/searchit.cgi?Pretribulation%20Rapture

"nosce te ipsum"

So good to have a place where we can search out biblical teachings based on what the bible actually says rather than this nonsense of the TV preachers.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Sojourner on March 25, 2020, 01:52:35 AM
Revelation 11:6-8
  • "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
  • And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
  • And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."

The faithful witnesses who have the power that it doesn't rain, and that the water is turned to blood, and to smite the earth with plagues, are the faithful witnesses who come in the Power of the Holy Spirit in the truth of God's word. It is "these" witnesses who have prophesied of the coming plagues, not the charlatans pretending to speak for God.

 &TY  )iagree(  And in a sense it is the witnesses who bring these judgments because they testified or prophesied of god's word of his wrath upon them? This is how I would understand the two prophets turning water to blood and shutting them off from rain from heaven. Correct?


Quote
The faithful witnesses who actually speak the word of God by quoting His word "as His Messengers." So yes, we are aware that the Bible speaks and has spoken, of the plagues coming upon us. But, like the people of physical Egypt of years ago, the people's hearts are hardened. Just as the false TV preachers today with their tricks and sleight of hand, the magicians of Egypt did false signs and with their enchantments and the people's heart was hardened.

...as saith the preacher, there is nothing new under the sun.

Very interesting. And as the people's hearts were hardened and they went along being convinced by the magicians, so many in spiritual Egypt go along with the imposters and the fraud's invalid tricks today. I am also struck by the way the plague of darkness is also relevant to the plagues of Egypt today as well. Don't you think?

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Philly Dawg on March 25, 2020, 07:03:09 AM
 )iagree(  )GoodPopst(
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2020, 11:36:11 AM

Does anyone know how many plagues were upon the people of Egypt before they let the children of Israel go? Thanks.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Mark on March 26, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Hi Rose,

Ten plagues from the water to blood to the death of the firstborn. Read through Exodus chapters 7 to 12 for what happened.

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Rose on March 27, 2020, 01:26:37 PM
Thank you Mark, I'm looking that up now.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Reformer on March 28, 2020, 02:36:09 AM
Thank you Mark, I'm looking that up now.

And they all represent some aspect of God's judgment upon the congregation. From the plagues of water turning to blood, of frogs, lice, flies, pestilence, boils, hail, locusts, darkness and the killing of the firstborn. They all have that spiritual meaning with regard to God's congregation.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: James Heckman on March 30, 2020, 05:35:55 AM

I don't know if the coronavirus is a biblical plague, but it's hard to deal with. So why don't you guys give the President of these United States a break? He has done a great job of running this country, and the things he says that are hurtful or vain you have to look past. We all make mistakes, he's no different. You have to look past what he has done, the wrong, and his words, and consider the good that he has done.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 30, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
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I don't know if the coronavirus is a biblical plague,

No, the coronavirus is not a biblical plague of Revelation.  The plagues of Egypt in the Old Testament was indeed physical but it has spiritual signification for our understanding with the plagues found in the book of Revealtion! Therefore, the plagues of Revealtion is NOT physical, but spiritual!

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but it's hard to deal with.

Why? The world had history of worst dieseases far more deadly than coronavirus. Even deadlier than the plagues of Egypt! Haven't you studied plagues in your high school?  Did you forget about the Black Death in 1347-1351 with death estimate of 200 million in just four years while its global population was about 450 million at that time? Would that be hard to deal with for those people?  And how about 1918 Spanish Flu that killed 50 million people with about 25 million of those deaths come in the first 25 weeks of the outbreak. Hard to deal with? 

So what about Coronavirus today?  Right now, per Johns Hopkins University and Medicine, there are 35,305 Coronavirus deaths in the world over the span of three months with total confirmed case of 741,030 and the world population is 7 billion.  America has 2,575 deaths with total confirmed case of 144,146.  So how will you compare Coronavirus with the two deadly plagues of the past above?  A drop in the bucket. Do you realize that influenze took 29,000 to 59,000 American lives a year on top of the misery of hundreds of thousands of flu-related hospitalizations and millions of medical visits for flu symptoms a season?  So how bad is Coronavirus for Americans so far?  It appears worse because of how we react to it. Thanks to our dangerously imcompetent and narcissistic president, misinforminiation on social media, and panic news. 

Calm down James. You as a person in America may have better odds of dying from cardiovascular disease than coronavirus.  Just stay home, exercise, and eat healthy. Turn off TV and quit listening to garbage on social media. Using your lockdown time do something with your hobbies, teach your children with Bible, work on marriage, etc. 

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So why don't you guys give the President of these United States a break?

No, sorry, Trump rages at accountability. As it happens, Trump has repeatedly lashed out at reporters for the very same transgression.  “It’s a nasty question,” Trump sneered, before declining any responsibility for what his own officials do and heaping extensive praise on his own response.  Yet you want to obey him and give him a break?

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He has done a great job of running this country

Really?

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and the things he says that are hurtful or vain you have to look past. We all make mistakes, he's no different. You have to look past what he has done, the wrong, and his words, and consider the good that he has done.

Please! Of course, we are all human and made mistakes. We also know that our American Presidents ALL have failings. We know that throughout the Bible, God uses flawed people, sometimes extremely wicked people in power with a purposes to bring judgment upon his people.  We can see that Trump has departed from all of our presidents since Nixon in that he is unable to control his impulses and mange his sins. We can see the danger of tribal politicisation of evangelical Christians by supporting Trump no matter what he did wrong. 

So my challenge to people like you and all Christians in the United States is this: what matters more to you, the identity of the person in the White House or the promotion of the good news about Jesus Christ? If it is the latter, - and it surely must be - then you need to seriously reconsider your support of the former! The politicisation of American Christianity has undermined the witness of evangelicals everywhere, especially when we can see that YOU are trying to sweep the sins of Trump under rug and declared him the champion of the Christian Right.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: George on March 30, 2020, 02:33:03 PM
Erik, show some charity instead of casting stones. As you said, calm down. you as a person in America have better odds of dying from cardiovascular disease than coronavirus. It's not that big of a deal.  Just stay home, exercise, and eat healthily.  Turn off the liberal shows on TV and quit listening to socialist garbage of CNN. Use Trump's gracious aid to Americans to support Israel, jog, get a hobby, teach your children the Bible, work on your marriage, support Republican politicians in this election, get off welfare, etc.  do something constructive for a change.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Jesse on March 30, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Calm down James. You as a person in America may have better odds of dying from cardiovascular disease than coronavirus. 

It is this type of misleading, out of context information that causes the coronavirus to spread and has foolish people gathering together partying and spreading the disease. It causes deaths that could otherwise be avoided specifically because a lot of people are stupid sheep. They think, "Erik says it's no big deal, let's all gather in New York and party." No, you didn't say it's no big deal. Or did you? It doesn't matter.

Never give a stupid man a gun and ammunition and tell him it's safe so long as he doesn't pull the trigger. Because he'll leave it out for his kids to examine. No, it's not safe because he's stupid.

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 31, 2020, 12:38:31 AM
Quote
It is this type of misleading, out of context information that causes the coronavirus to spread and has foolish people gathering together partying and spreading the disease. It causes deaths that could otherwise be avoided specifically because a lot of people are stupid sheep. They think, "Erik says it's no big deal, let's all gather in New York and party." No, you didn't say it's no big deal. Or did you? It doesn't matter.

Jesse....my testimony is based on the scientific comparison between the past pandemics and Coronavirus to show the actual mortality rate.  That's all.

I do not believe that I have offered a hint that someone should disobey a lackdown order by going back to work or go out partying, just because someone is offended by something or misinterpreted my statement that may affected the fools.  No, it is all about staying at home and be safe by doing things I have specifically outlined.  Who said about going out to the party or "no big deal?"  It was you who took a single sentence out of context with false assumption.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Jesse on March 31, 2020, 04:50:30 AM
Jesse....my testimony is based on the scientific comparison

I didn't say it was inaccurate, I said it was misleading and out of context. It is the type of thing that causes the coronavirus to spread because the world is full of foolish people who just need an excuse to gather together and spread the disease. It's the type of thing Trump would say.

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: George on March 31, 2020, 11:30:17 AM
Never give a stupid man a gun and ammunition and tell him it's safe so long as he doesn't pull the trigger. Because he'll leave it out for his kids to examine. No, it's not safe because he's stupid.

What is it with you guys. You use the word stupid a lot. What's up with that?
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Reformer on March 31, 2020, 01:22:50 PM
I don't know if the coronavirus is a biblical plague,

People are blaspheming God, not because of the plague of the Coronavirus, they do it because of the plague of unbelief, deceitfulness, and delusion in the church. That is the speaking evil of righteousness.  That is the plague that the Bible speaks about.

Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

The talent described here is the weight of a balance and is signifying the Lord's judgment upon them. That's the plague that God sends upon them where they blasphemy Him. Professing Christians who don't know the truth, who believe the lies, and who in turn blasphemy or speak evil of the Spirit.

Da 5:26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.

God's judgment is the hail, the weight of a talent.


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but it's hard to deal with.

All pandemics are hard to deal with. I don't think anyone here (but Trump cultists) who have ever denied this, or who said this would just go away easily. Yes, it's hard to deal with and is getting harder. That's why people were attempting to explain this to Trump so that he would take it more seriously. But he was to busy denying its significance and claiming that it would just disappear in a few days. Trump denied this reality and would only listen to the rhetoric of Fox & Friends, the ravings of Sean Hannity, or the narcissistic voices in his head. He didn't listen to the experts, doctors or scientists in the beginning because he has such contempt and disdain for anyone who disagrees with his worldview. He has no humility, honesty and no integrity.

Job 31:5 If I have walked with vanity, or if my foot hath hasted to deceit;
6 Let me be weighed in an even balance, that God may know mine integrity.


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So why don't you guys give the President of these United States a break?

How many breaks do you give a vain, fascist, despot? He's escaped legal entanglements with hookers, he's escaped being a thief by using bankruptcy, he's escaped criminal activity that any other person would have been put in jail for early on. He's escaped a Russian collusion investigation where He should have been charged. He's escaped clearly outlined obstruction charges. He's escaped an obvious impeachment conviction for the Ukraine fiasco, he's escaped responsibility for every ridiculous move he's made in office, etc. So how many breaks is he supposed to get? Should he escape witness of the truth also just because you joy in the lack of accountability for his evil? Why does this truth bother you so?

Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?


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He has done a great job of running this country

 )face-slap(


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the things he says that are hurtful or vain you have to look past. We all make mistakes, he's no different.

So you confess that Trump is hurtful and wrong in what he says and does, but we should what?  Give him absolution? Are we God to give him absolution for all the race-baiting, deceit, the lies, the conspiracies, the immorality, collusion, bribery, usurping congressional oversight, the lawlessness, and wicked behavior of Trump?  As a professing Christian, you should know that only God can give absolution for that. We can forgive him and pray for him but that is the limit of our ability. I call him to repentance, not to give him absolution.

Lu 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Without repentance, there is no absolution, right? There is no mandate from God for his messengers to give him absolution or for us to stop telling the truth simply because all people mistakes. There is no "get out of jail free card' without regeneration.

But forgiveness of him is not what you really want, is it?  What you really want is for those of us who love the truth to stop bearing witness to it when it comes to Trump. Obama yes, Clinton, Yes, But Trump, Never. You want to silence the witnesses to his lawlessness dishonesty and deceit, right?  You desire that we all just sweep it under a rug and say he's done a great job? To act like Fox & Friends and only report the whitewashed version of events, not the dirty, grimy details that he wants to keep hidden. You want us to kneel at the altar of Trump. Bow down like those false prophets and evangelicals in our churches with political gospels. You want us to only see good things and to ignore the mountain of bad so that you can feel justified about supporting this vile, despicable, insane little man. I won't because that sounds eerily familiar to Biblical history to me.

Isa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.

To do what you want would be to cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. In effect to blasphemy His name and His teachings. You want the people not to see what's evil and not to hear the truth about his lies, corruption and evil. You only want us to post nice smooth things to make Trump seem like a great man. To make glorifying posts full of the feel-good stories and fantasies that Fox News runs? You don't want us to say that, the Emporer has no clothes.

It's the same as the evangelicals, TV hucksters, and other false Christians who only want to hear how great the nation of Israel is, how the church is serving God when backing a despicable man like Trump, how immorality in a President suddenly doesn't matter anymore, How in Christianity today the ends will justify the means, how Trump is a God-send for the health of America, and how evil and liberal those of us are who can't abide his lies and deceit.  How wicked we all must be who dare to honestly report the constant distortion of facts and Godless lawbreaking.

This Christian will not fall for that delusion. Sorry, I see right through that. Nothing (or almost nothing) I have seen posted here here is a lie. I wish I could say the same for the words of the cult-leader, Trump.


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You have to look past what he has done, the wrong, and his words, and consider the good that he has done.

Did you look past Obama? Clinton? What a convenient excuse to justify hiding the truth in darkness. It is said that Democracy dies in darkness. So does truth.

Isa 29:15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

No matter how deep so many professing Christians seek to hide Trump's misbehavior, God sees it, and His witnesses know its hiding place is protected by the words of a wolf pack of professing Christians thinking their hearts are in the right place. Strong delusion, very strong delusion. Truth matters, but not to the stupid. At least not until the day of judgment.

Ho 9:7 The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Reformer on March 31, 2020, 01:27:01 PM
Never give a stupid man a gun and ammunition and tell him it's safe so long as he doesn't pull the trigger. Because he'll leave it out for his kids to examine. No, it's not safe, because he's stupid.

What is it with you guys. You use the word stupid a lot. What's up with that?

Because stupid is as stupid does. And from a Christian perspective, we're living in the golden age of stupidity. Evidence, Trump being elected President over at least 10 more qualified and intelligent men. After which Evangelicals and nearly half the country senselessly think it is righteous what Trump does and they blindly follow his madness in cult-like fashion. In a word, Stupid!

Would you rather we call it spiritual insanity? That works too, because that is exactly what it is.

Pr 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

You're all sailing in this ship of fools with no captain.

...but I know! You think it was righteous and Christian to Elect a man like Trump.  My point is proven. Pr 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Wanda on March 31, 2020, 02:22:23 PM
 )nicethread(  )GoodPopst(
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 31, 2020, 03:07:17 PM
Amen, Reformer!
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Soldier on March 31, 2020, 03:47:14 PM
No matter how deep so many professing Christians seek to hide Trump's misbehavior, God sees it, and His witnesses know its hiding place is protected by the words of a wolf pack of professing Christians thinking their hearts are in the right place. Strong delusion, very strong delusion. Truth matters, but not to the stupid. At least not until the day of judgment.

Ho 9:7 The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.

 )God-Bless-You(  I have often wondered why so many Christians cannot see that this is true?  And I suspect that it is just as you said. God's Judgment. They are blinded. Thanks for the truth Reformer. It's so refreshing.

PS, your comment on the weight of the talent bears more study. Very interesting.


Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Dan on March 31, 2020, 04:39:02 PM
Oh, OK, so now we're all going to praise Reformer for denigrating Dispensationalism and disrespecting the President?  Whatever happened to "judge Not!"
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 31, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
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Oh, OK, so now we're all going to praise Reformer for denigrating Dispensationalism and disrespecting the President?  Whatever happened to "judge Not!"

We only can praise to God Himself for sending people like Reformer, Tony Warren, myself, Phil, Jesse, etc. to prophesy HIS WORD based on Scripture. Eg. 2nd Ti 3:16.  People like you, Dan, are making excuses with "judge not" because you are offended by the truthfulness of our testimony.

Selah.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 31, 2020, 05:00:52 PM
Quote from: Solider
PS, your comment on the weight of the talent bears more study. Very interesting.

Agreed. I believe I started a thread on this in 2006. Let discuss more about it there. Blessings.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=1731.msg18383#msg18383 (http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=1731.msg18383#msg18383)
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Sportsnut on April 01, 2020, 09:15:45 PM
Jesse....my testimony is based on the scientific comparison

I didn't say it was inaccurate, I said it was misleading and out of context. It is the type of thing that causes the coronavirus to spread because the world is full of foolish people who just need an excuse to gather together and spread the disease. It's the type of thing Trump would say.

That is correct Jesse. I'm with you on this one. That is exactly the type of thing Trump would say. And he has said it. Here's my take. No one should ever minimize this pandemic in any way, shape, or form. It's not the flu, it's not like the flu, it shouldn't be compared to the flu. Trump and others are doing that and it's just foolish.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Sportsnut on April 01, 2020, 09:18:36 PM
People are blaspheming God, not because of the plague of the Coronavirus, they do it because of the plague of unbelief, deceitfulness, and delusion in the church. That is the speaking evil of righteousness.  That is the plague that the Bible speaks about.

No matter how deep so many professing Christians seek to hide Trump's misbehavior, God sees it, and His witnesses know its hiding place is protected by the words of a wolf pack of professing Christians thinking their hearts are in the right place. Strong delusion, very strong delusion. Truth matters, but not to the stupid. At least not until the day of judgment.

Ho 9:7 The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.

Another great job Reformer. The prophet truly is a fool and the spiritual man mad.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Tony Warren on April 02, 2020, 10:25:54 AM
People are blaspheming God, not because of the plague of the Coronavirus, they do it because of the plague of unbelief, deceitfulness, and delusion in the church. That is the speaking evil of righteousness.  That is the plague that the Bible speaks about. Strong delusion, very strong delusion. Truth matters, but not to the stupid. At least not until the day of judgment.

Ho 9:7 The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.

Another great job Reformer. The prophet truly is a fool and the spiritual man mad.

 )Bible-Red(  ...and all God's people said, Amen!

 No greater verse proves the "Spiritual Insanity" of professing messengers of God that has gripped much of the church than this verse. The absolute tangible madness of many professing Christians blinded to the truth by the carnality of their own will masquerading as the will of God.

Indeed, God's prophesy of strong delusion (2nd Thessalonians 2:11) is just another word describing "Spiritual Insanity." in this spiritual madness the people who are professing to be messengers of God actually believe they are doing God's will by their silence, disobedience, and vain justifications. And their delusion of service to God is nothing new.

John 16:2

They come at enmity with the truth thinking that they are doing God a favor (or service) by their neglect of the truth. This spiritual madness, this strong delusion is the judgment of God on professing believers who have neglected the word of truth.  As He has said before, "The days of visitation have come, the days of recompense has come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred. Hosea 9:7"

The true Israel of God knows it because God has revealed it to them. The pretenders who despise the truth and justify evil are set on fire and they never even realize the wrath of God upon them. Because they are carnal, without the Spirit of God that would reveal this.

Amos 3:7

Not mad prophets, not the prophet God declares a fool, but God's two witnesses (2nd Corinthians 13:1), the two Prophets, the two Candlesticks, the two olive trees who (because of God's Spirit) are the only messengers of truth. You will know them by their fruits.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on April 04, 2020, 12:30:19 PM

Just saying...and keep Trump out of it.  Think about it.

(http://tribulationsigns.com/images/deaths2020.png)
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Jesse on April 04, 2020, 05:08:48 PM
Just saying...and keep Trump out of it.  Think about it.

Here we go. Trump-like self-justification. You say keep Trump out of it? That's the weirdest thing you've said yet. You are literally parroting what Trump said. Apart from the message in your jaded numbers, and the ridiculous comparison to cancer, suicide, traffic accidents, smoking, and alcoholism, your post is self-serving. Are things like Traffic accidents and cancer "contagious!"   ::)

We can't separate it from Trump because you sound just like Trump. Not a little like him, but just like him. 

I'll tell you what, how about we all just throw caution to the wind and go to New York and bear hug all the coronavirus patients. That Ok with you?   I mean since you apparently think it's really not as important or bad as the flu, auto accidents or jungle malaria. According to your ridiculous out of context comparison. We should worry more about suicides than coronavirus.
)face-slap(

Glad you're not in charge. I wonder if you'll be thinking that when you catch it because you think alcoholism is of greater concern?  Good grief, what a dumb thing to put out there at this time when leaders are trying to get people to be more responsible with what they say to impressionable people and less scatterbrained like Trump.


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Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?

A better question is if dumb comments were prophesied?


So how bad is Coronavirus for Americans so far?  It appears worse because of how we react to it.

I don't know about you Erik, but it's pretty bad. Stop downplaying it. There were 1000 new deaths in this country alone just yesterday, and that's just the deaths that are counted. Because there is a lack of testing in this country because of the ineptitude of Trump, meaning many more have died from it than has been reported. They don't have the tests everywhere and the dearths aren't recorded as Coronavirus deaths.  1000+ and growing deaths a day may not be a bid deal to you and your misleading charts, but it's a big deal to me, and to it's a big deal to their families, and a big deal to those caregivers who die working to save others. What a terrible attitude about this pandemic you have.
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on April 04, 2020, 08:08:52 PM
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Trump-like self-justification. You say keep Trump out of it?


Yes, here we go again.  Yes, keep Trump out of it. I did not agree with how Trump justified his belief by comparison COVID-19 with “seasonal flu” to excuse his poor leadership. And I can see why you refused to separate my own researching from Trump and accused me of sound like Trump despite have explained my position.  Okay, but whatever you say. Next.


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Apart from the message in your jaded numbers, and the ridiculous comparison to cancer, suicide, traffic accidents, smoking, and alcoholism, your post is self-serving. Are things like Traffic accidents and cancer "contagious!"


What? Like people learned from others to text or drinking while driving? Or, like people with family hereditary come with risk of getting a cancer.  And you think its not “contagious.”  Okay, but whatever you say. Next.


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I mean since you apparently think it's really not as important or bad as the flu, auto accidents or jungle malaria. According to your ridiculous out of context comparison. We should worry more about suicides than coronavirus.

I did not say that COVID-19 is not important else I would not have done my researching!   All I did was to show the comparison between COVID-19 with past flu pandemics and health-related deaths for the past 4 months and how the world, including Christians, react to it. That is all.

You got triggered because you just assumed that this is something I may get from Trump’s playbook.  LOL!!!  I am with you, Reformer and Phil on Trump.  So please calm down, Jesse!


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1000+ and growing deaths a day may not be a bid deal to you and your misleading charts, but it's a big deal to me, and to it's a big deal to their families, and a big deal to those caregivers who die working to save others. What a terrible attitude about this pandemic you have.


Sigh...ANY KIND OF DEATH is a big deal to me. It can happen to anyone and it already has claimed many more people in different ways and most are more deadly than COVID-19 anyway as far as number shows today, get it? Of course, it is a big deal when my son is out there driving on the road where thousands will die from traffic accident a day.  It is a big deal when my mother is sick that she may have a cancer while thousands will die from cancer in a day.  You made it sounds like COVID-19 that claims 1,000+ a day or more is NUMBER ONE KILLER IN THIS NATION that we must pay close attention to it.  Well that is where you are misleading. I just show the fact here that proved you wrong. 

My original post on COVID-19 was clear, if anyone don’t want to get COVID-19, stay home and do something PRODUCTIVE with family until COVID-19 has passed whenever that may be, like I have explained.  God promised us no tomorrow.  Heck, you may die of heart attack tomorrow after accused me of my researching to be "Trump like."  What will your justification for your accusation against me be based on then?
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Brian on April 05, 2020, 05:27:22 AM
With all due respect Erik, why would you post an image implying Malaria was three times as deadly than the coronavirus if you weren't trying to minimize the coronavirus? That makes no sense. You can understand that, right? Then you imply the media is the one blowing it up when the same thing is going on in every country. People have the right to know, don't they? So by your media comment, you seem to imply that they shouldn't air so much of this information and should just keep us in the dark. You see how that could be construed as your attempt to minimize this pandemic, don't you?
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Stan Pat on April 05, 2020, 06:43:53 AM
 )Goodpoint(
Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: R. Anspach on April 05, 2020, 06:56:30 AM
Indeed, God's prophesy of strong delusion (2nd Thessalonians 2:11) is just another word describing "Spiritual Insanity." in this spiritual madness the people who are professing to be messengers of God actually believe they are doing God's will by their silence, disobedience, and vain justifications. And their delusion of service to God is nothing new.

John 16:2
  • "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

The thinking of all false prophets. They think that they are doing God's will. When I was told to leave the church, it was because they thought that I was disruptive with my beliefs in Amillennialism. They thought I was blaspheming when all I was doing was testifying to the Bible.  Remember this example with Christ?

"Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy." Matthew 26:65

Tony, strong delusion is a hard thing to break out of. Witness some of my own family caught up in it.


Quote
Amos 3:7
  • "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Not mad prophets, not the prophet God declares a fool, but God's two witnesses (2nd Corinthians 13:1), the two Prophets, the two Candlestichs, the two olive trees who (because of God's Spirit) are the only messengers of truth.

And the reception of truth is the only fruit that is the work of Christ and worth anything. The only way we know we are sound of mind is when we unashamedly receive the truth of God's word.

Thank you for your good work Tony

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Erik Diamond on April 05, 2020, 03:03:50 PM
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With all due respect Erik, why would you post an image implying Malaria was three times as deadly than the coronavirus if you weren't trying to minimize the coronavirus? That makes no sense.

Minimize? Okay.  I think some of you felt offended by my information to show yearly death rate of the flu assumed that I may be insenstive "like Trump" about the Coronavirus. False.  Then I shared the numbers on hundreds of thousands of people died in car accidents around the world in four months.  And you think I am going to snarkily suggest that cars be banned? 

Look, point being, I am only comparing this Cornoavirus pandemic to other mass casualty, world-shaping events and other daily health-related death is the only way I know to make people resonate. Just don't kill the messenger who only show the facts, okay?  I am not going to cheapened about the deaths of Cornoavirus becasue I believe I am seeing something distrubing beyond unforutente deaths to see what may happen to us as nation. 

For example, we all heard from Trump adminstration that if we continue practicing social distancing, between 100,000 and 240,000 Americans would die of COVID-19, otherwise, we may see 1.5 million and 2.2 million Americans would have died.  I believe that the projections are always bounded by inaccuracies (and there have been PLENTY in the past few month with Trump Administration). But if Fauci were correct, the death toll would be as if there were a 9/11 attack every day for the next two or three months.

But I am more concerned about the immediate effects of Coronavirus. The postponed weddings, cancelled vacations, empty supermarket shelves, sinking housing prices, salary cuts, massive layoffs, unemployment rates unseen in America history, etc.  -- suggest no one will come out of this period without losing something.  Yet we are only at the beginning! Will we see a great depression in working? Who knows. 

So I was comparing this Coronavirus with past pandemic for a researching purpose. It is to see how bad things will get economically for this nation (and the world).  I looked at a viral outbreak of this scale has only happened once before in the industrialized world. For example, the 1918 influenze pandemic that hit the world in TWO seaonal waves, killing 50 million people worldwide and 675,000 in the United States. While 1918 pandemic isn't a prefect comparision to the modern Coronavirus pandemic, there may be a national sense of unease and uncertains with unemployment, inflation, riots, labor strikes, etc - - something Trump wanted to avoid to stay "re-electability" with lies and false predictions. 

It will be interesting to see what will happen to this divided America. I read about group of workers walked off the job at an Amazon warehouse because the company fired an employment for leading a protest against its safety conditions.  Whole Foods Market workers held a "sick out."  Even health care workers are protesting over the shortage of personal protective equipment, which they say are puttin their lives at risk.

And Trump walked back his Easter deadline for turning the economy back on, but the recent push to go back to work - pandemic or not - is still being trumpeted by prominent Republicans and right wing media. We know that Trump continues prioritizing the market over human lives, his adminstration's "Lord of the flies" approach has left our country's governors scrambling to fill in the gaps left by a impotent federal government - a possible sign that America would soon be heading toward the disintegration that marked the end of the Roman Empire?

Stay tuned after two to three months and see what happens.

   

Title: Re: Is The Coronavirus The Plagues Prophesied?
Post by: Soldier on April 06, 2020, 04:43:34 AM
And the reception of truth is the only fruit that is the work of Christ and worth anything. The only way we know we are sound of mind is when we unashamedly receive the truth of God's word.

Thank you for your good work Tony

 )GoodPopst( I second That!