The Mountain Retreat

Biblical Discussions => Apologetics => Topic started by: Jenny on October 06, 2019, 04:25:30 AM

Title: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Jenny on October 06, 2019, 04:25:30 AM

Good website, a little dated but the content is outstanding.

I have been talking to some Christians who are telling me that doctrine isn't really essential and that all religions lead to God. I don't believe that is true, but their argument was that whatever name people call him, or give to their deity, it's the same God. My question is, do all religions lead to the same God?
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2019, 05:30:31 AM

Good website, a little dated but


Dated is an understatement. It looks like a website from the 1980s.   :P
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Tony Warren on October 06, 2019, 07:39:44 AM
>>>
I have been talking to some Christians who are telling me that doctrine isn't really essential...
<<<

On the contrary, doctrine doesn't just matter, it is essential for even knowing which God you actually serve. How would you even know that you are serving the God of the Bible if you are not following His doctrine written in the Bible? Can I be living for Christ and following His doctrines if I am holding to the doctrines of Balaam? Is evidence of faithful doctrine being loved by everyone? What doctrines we follow are evidence of what God we serve. What religion we are a part of determines whether we are actually a follower of Christ or a usurper of His name. The messenger of God writes to the church in Pergamos concerning this very topic and the great importance of doctrine.

Revelation 2:14-16

Does the Lord God hate doctrines that don't matter in the big scheme of things, and does he fight against those who hold them because their doctrines are insignificant? Not according to His word. Clearly the doctrines of those claiming to be of His name, and in His church, and yet teaching falsely, do matter. Doctrines matter because the truths that He teaches matters. False gods being served in His church matters. They aren't gods that all lead to Jehovah God, these religions their "doctrines" are what defines exactly whom we truly serve, and that matters.


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>>>
...and that all religions lead to God?
<<<

All religions do not lead to God. At least not in the sense that those who make this claim believe. There is only one true religion, and so while being in a false religion might facilitate someone's understanding that there is a God (Romans 1:20) that controls the universe, but that doesn't equate to them serving that God. Moreover, false religions will never bring anyone to the saving knowledge of that God, only His grace can. It will not demonstrate that their only hope of life and salvation is through the one Jehovah God. That is to say, "the God whom their religion does not serve!" So though it might lead to "a god" in their own image and of their own making, it will not lead anyone to "Thee God" with whom they have to do.


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>>>
I don't believe that is true, but their argument was that whatever name people call him, or give to their deity, it's the same God.
<<<

Clearly that is not true if we take the Lord Jehovah God at His word. Not only are they not the same God, and not called by the same name, God's word is clear the evil of being unequally yoked together with other religions, whether in marriage, of worshipping with them, and of associating with people who serve these other gods.

Exodus 34:14-16

So while their vain argument is that whatever name people call him, or that they give to their deity, it's the same God, let God be true and every man a liar (Romans 3:4 ) Listen to what our Lord's word says:

Acts 4:12

Clearly, not only are all gods not the same, nor do all religions lead to the same God, they clearly aren't called by different names and being the same God of the universe. Without the name of Christ, there is no deliverer or savior of man. These apologists notwithstanding. If you're interested, a quick search of the forum reveals some other threads you might want to read that have bearing on this question:

Do Muslims, Jews and Christians all Worship the Same God? (http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2082.0)

Arenít All Religions Basically The Same? (http://mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=3064.0)

Does Native Americans Worship same God as ours? (http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2602.0)

There Is Only One Saviour (http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/there-is-only-one-savior.shtml)

Why can't Christians, Muslims and Jews have a Dialogue Here? (http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=2652.msg.0)


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>>>
My question is, do all religions lead to the same God?
<<<

As with any truly Biblical answer, we must receive God's word on the matter, rather than man's. According to God's word, there is only one religion that leads to God and that is the religion of the followers of Christ. There is only one name whereby anyone can be saved, and that name is Christ. There are not multiple ways unto Father Jehovah God, there is only one way, which is Christ.

John 14:5-6

No man can come to God except by Christ. Why would true Christians even debate that truth. The WORD of God has made it clear that this modernistic, cultural, sensual, idea that all religions lead to the same God, or that all religions worship the same God, is a bankrupt theory. If that were the case, then the God of the Bible wouldn't have been condemning those snared in false religions all throughout Scripture. Clearly, we see in His inerrant word that Jehovah God has no patience for those who worship false gods, or that are snared in the false doctrines of false religions. These doctrines don't lead to one god, at least certainly not the one true God. False doctrines come from false religions are of those worshipping false gods.

2nd John 1:10

Is God welcoming the doctrines of false religions serving false gods or is He commanding separation from them? Many religionists in their "feel-good type of theology" teach and worship the image of a god that is not jealous, not wrathful, not judgmental, doesn't punish, and is always forgiving. Despite the words of Jehovah God to the contrary. They want you to believe that everyone is under mercy when the truth is of election and particular redemption. There are false gods and none of them lead to the God of the Bible. False gods and their religions are the inventions of men. They are the bane of the God of the Bible, the very source or cause of God's sorrow and unhappiness with mankind.

Deuteronomy 6:14

Yes, in spite of the nonsense preached by some that there are no false gods and that all religions lead to heaven, the word of God clearly teaches that there are indeed false Gods (Jeremiah 43:13/i]), and there are indeed false religions, and there are indeed the false doctrines of these false religions that serve a false god. God "does not" condone them or give them the right of passage into His kingdom. On the contrary, He condemns them in the strictest of terms. Starting with the first commandment:

Exdus 20:3
Ex 23:13

It is truly a sign of the times that some professing Christians believe that it is "judgmental and intolerant" to actually acknowledge God's word that there are different gods, essential doctrines, and false religions. Yes, that is all true. There is no get-out-of-jail-free card. There are other gods, and our God does not either condone them, nor relegate them to non-condemnation. And that includes the people that are of their own volition snared in those religions, and serving those gods.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Sue Landow on October 07, 2019, 05:41:06 AM
 )GoodPopst( 
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Pilgrim on October 07, 2019, 10:26:05 AM

The Reformed Reader says different religions and religious beliefs will always be logically irreconcilable. I believe that to be true. And so how could they all lead to the same God with different beliefs and systems that contradict each other?
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Reformed Baptist on October 08, 2019, 04:43:32 AM
 &TY
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Philly Dawg on October 09, 2019, 12:20:58 AM
Do All Religions Lead To The Same God? All but one. Any religion not in Christ leads to the god of this world, who is Satan.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Jenny on October 10, 2019, 02:39:52 AM

Tony, Thank you for your fast reply. I haven't had the time to go over all the links yet, but I will.  Your post seems to make a lot of sense and I'm taking it to heart. It just seems hard to fathom all those millions of people not having the opportunity to find God. Again, thank you so much for your post because it was very enlightening.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Betty on October 10, 2019, 03:01:07 AM
Hi Jenny,
   I see that you are pretty new here and just so you know, we don't all agree with Tony Warren's doctrines. It's good that you first understand that they are his doctrines, not Christ's. Particularly his doctrines on will who knows God, our free will, on Christian gays, Divorce, hell not being annihilation, miracles, Israel, the church, apostasy, and government. So just because Tony says something doesn't mean that it's true to the Bible. I believe that Catholics, Monks, Muslims,  Mormons, and other religious bodies do worship the same god. Some just call him by a different name. Don't shut out a whole group of people merely by a name. God cares about who's good and who is evil, not what we call ourselves.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Drew on October 13, 2019, 08:20:12 AM
All religions do not lead to God. There is only one true religion, and so while being in a false religion might facilitate someone's understanding that there is a God (Romans 1:20) that controls the universe, but that doesn't equate to them serving that God.

How do you know? How do you know Premillennialists don't preach the truth? You are not God to know these things where you are inerrant. Why don't you show some positivity about the churches rather than always condemning the church all the time. That's why you are always being criticized. Because you seem more opposed to the church than a supporter of it. Far be it from me to claim anyone in another country cannot come to God. I'm not that arrogant.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Dan on October 13, 2019, 05:28:50 PM
 )GoodPopst(  Negative Nelly. You would think the church wasn't doing anything good today.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Granny on October 14, 2019, 01:09:33 AM

Dan, the question is, do all religions lead to the same God? The correct answer is no. The reason that some eastern, catholic and liberal Christians make or give credence to this indefensible idea is that this gives all religions an equal footing, which they don't really have. Only one religion has a system where debt is owed to God and has a means of legal resolution where that debt is actually paid. Religions by definition are not equally true in either the understanding of sin, god, laws, doctrines, Heaven or Hell.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Reformer on October 14, 2019, 06:31:44 AM
)GoodPopst(  Negative Nelly. You would think the church wasn't doing anything good today.

Actually, that's a very good question.  I can't answer that. I guess it all depends upon what you call good.  I call preaching the truth of the gospel good. I don't call selling books, ecumenism, political rhetoric, false eschatology, social engineering,  pay for pray, or saying "peace, peace" when there is no peace, good.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Robert Powell on October 14, 2019, 11:24:23 AM
   me neither.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Diane Moody on October 14, 2019, 08:04:12 PM
)GoodPopst(  Negative Nelly. You would think the church wasn't doing anything good today.

I don't know why Tony and the Moderator puts up with you Dan, but there must be some good reason  )Say_what(
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Diane Moody on October 14, 2019, 08:12:58 PM
I believe that Catholics, Monks, Muslims,  Mormons, and other religious bodies do worship the same god. Some just call him by a different name.

Is this really a belief in the Christian church, or just a few fringe ideas from a member or two?
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Anne on October 15, 2019, 05:28:03 AM

Well Diane, it certainly is getting a lot of play in some areas of the church. I found it hard to believe that 64% of Christians agreed that God accepts the worship of those in other religions. My Bible says God won't hear their prayers. So I don't get it.

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/21-UK-Christians-disagree-that-Jesus-is-only-way-to-salvation

Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Tony Warren on October 15, 2019, 08:28:33 AM
>>>
while being in a false religion might facilitate someone's understanding that there is a God (Romans 1:20) that controls the universe, that doesn't equate to them serving that God.

How do you know?
<<<

Because "the word" is knowledge. I daily read the Scriptures that proclaim in a hundred different ways what serving the Lord entails. It "defines" who the Israel of God is, what the Spirit of truth will and will not confirm, how many gods lead to Jehovah, and how many names the Kingdom can be accessed through. According to "my God," it's not through Budah, Adonis, the Hindu Vishnu, Muhamad, Confucious, Balaam, or any other. According to "Jehovah God," the God of my religion,  there is only one God and one name by which man can access that God, and that is Christ. People in "my" Religion who believe this are called Christians. To be sure, there are a myriad of people who call themselves Christian who do not believe, but according to the word of my God, "this is how we know." God says so and says so unambiguously.

Isaiah 44:6

That's the thing about "true" belief. It is what "true" Christians have in the absolute authority of the word of our God over those of faith/belief.  He not only tells us that there can be other gods, but that therefore there can be none other names where anyone can be saved but Jesus Christ. He is the only propitiation for sin that can deliver. i.e., the only way to God. That's how Christians know.


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>>>
How do you know Premillennialists don't preach the truth?
<<<

Because Christ (The living WORD of God) is knowledge (2nd Corinthians 4:6) and knowledge is power. So I do as the honest/noble Bereans did, I search the Scriptures, comparing Scripture with Scripture, against the words of the Premillennarians, and I see if they are in harmony with God's word. That's how I know, and it's really not that difficult. It's the "only" way to see what is true to God's word and what is a false private interpretation of it. No teacher can tell you what God says, God's word itself is the arbiter of that, and His Spirit convinces you to receive "that" truth as opposed to man's presumptions.

Acts 17:11-12

In other words, the Bereans were a lot more Spirit-filled so as to be honest with themselves where they didn't just blindly accept what the Jewish leaders taught them, but searched the Scriptures "continually" for themselves and "therefore" many belied. Many came to faith "because" they daily/continually compared the word of God in the Scriptures, with the words of their religious teachers, and they saw the discrepancies of their teachers and the harmony of the Apostle Paul's words with Scripture. Therefore, or that is why they believed.

Romans 10:16-17

Their faith came by hearing the word of the Scripture through the Spirit that reveals its truth to the elect. Likewise, "this" is how I know Premillennarians (in general) don't preach the truth of God's word concerning the kingdom and reign, and "this" is why I have no fear of error in bearing witness to it. Not because I am arrogant, smarter, or more learned than anyone else, but because "The Word" is clear on the issue.


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>>>
You are not God to know these things where you are inerrant.
<<<

Correct. But "my" absolute authority is. #1. God's word is inerrant. #2. I testify to God's word, not my own. #3. As long as I don't add or take away from God's inerrant testimony, that word of truth is still inerrant. No matter who testifies to it. If you disagree, your argument is not with me, but with the word I bear witness to.

Psalms 12:6

Blessed are those who keep them, but also woe unto those who trample them underfoot as if they were dirt. The only way I could be wrong about what God, Christ and the Scriptures say about the nature of the kingdom, reign and Israel, is if the Scriptures I point to don't say exactly what I claim/testify they say.


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>>>
Why don't you show some positivity about the churches rather than always condemning the church all the time.
<<<

Well, for one thing:

"Constant positivity is a form of avoidance."

I can avoid the problem, or I can bear witness to the truth of God's word concerning the problem--a problem that has existed in God's congregation long before the first advent, the seven churches, and before the testimony of its problems were written "for our learning" concerning them. Did the prophets of ol;d ignore problems in God's congregation? Not unless they were coming under judgment. The real problem is, no one is reading the Bible anymore. Because they're listening to others manipulate the bible and interpret its words according to their own will. If you want constant positivity for God's congregation, then you must not "ever" read the Bible!

Jeremiah 23:12-13

That was written for our learning, and so I ask, "who is causing God's people to err today?" How's that verse a little constant positivity to God's people? Should the prophet not have testified to this? Should those witnessing remain silent concerning such things for the sake of false positivity? Should someone have told the prophet, "Why don't you show some positivity about Israel rather than always condemning her all the time?"  ...I think not. I will repeat Scripture that if the people of God's house had done good, would they have not received praise? Sure they would. But they didn't, they caused God's people Israel to err and that is why they were witnessed against, and that is why God's judgment came upon "His People."  ...as well it should have.


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>>>
That's why you are always being criticized.
<<<

Boo Hoo. Should I rent my clothes and cry about criticism--or, as a true Christian, should I expect this? It's not like its a mystery. I am as a worm compared to Christ and they abandoned and killed that perfect preacher for saying they had to eat his flesh, the leaders of God's house were hypocrites, and that He was king. Should I then expect praise for saying there is only one way to the kingdom?  If I did, I'd be a fool.

Matthew 5:11-12

The only teachers who expect praise for their testimonies are the false ones. As I've said here many times, I would truly start to actually worry if all those here started to speak glowingly of me, or praise my doctrines and all say nice things about my witness of the word. Then I would have to reexamine to make sure that I was not worldly, or not faithfully preaching the truth "from" the Bible. Did any of Christ's disciples receive glowing praise for their teaching? The history of the church is filled with crucifictions, killings, persecutions, revilings and martyrs,

Luke 6:26

Why does Christ say this? Any ideas? There is a divine message there for all Christians concerning great and popular Christians and faithful Christians. I've got news for you, the "truth:" is never popular. That is a given because b]anyone[/b] not truly saved is at enmity with it. God's unadulterated word is at enmity with most people, and that includes many within the church who want to do their own will rather than follow God's testimony. It is an absolute truth that:

2nd Timothy 3:12

Criticism doesn't change my faith/beliefs in order that I conform to the world's views of the nicities of the church. The moral of the story is, if you don't want to be critisized, don't become a Christian. The old adage applies:

"If you don't want to be criticized, say nothing, do nothing, and be nothing."

You know, ...like most "professing" Christians who wouldn't know the great commission if it was laid in their laps by a messenger of God. Criticism I expect (1st Corinthians 4:12-13). If my underlying wish was for peace in this adversarial world, I sure wouldn't be a Christian. A false Christian maybe, but not a true one. If in Christ I couldn't handle criticism, I couldn't preach the true gospel. Yes, I could teach a watered-down version maybe, a socialized version maybe, or a politically correct version, but not the truth. Those who listen "know" that we've been told by the Lord many times to expect criticism, reviling, even persecution, IF we hold to the truth of His word. There's no peace in the world for true Christians, only a sword. Our peace is not with, nor in the world, it is in Christ. So they can criticize away because His grace is sufficient for me.

John 14:27
John 16:33


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>>>
Because you seem more opposed to the church than a supporter of it.
<<<

I'm a supporter of the one true indivisible and spirit-filled church, but I'm absolutely opposed to churches full of modern-day Scribes and Pharisees teaching a false peace that cannot help anyone, and that keeps those who would be helped from hearing the truth. I'm not going to give any quarter to them at all, as a true follower of Christ I'll say of them exactly what our Lord said of them.

Matthew 23:13

Despite the ramblings of some theologians and ministers, a false church or god is not a conduit for the Kingdom of Heaven in any sense. On the contrary, it is a "bulwark" against it. That means "any" false church and any name that is not Christ.

Acts 4:12

How would we think that there would be some in false churches that would enter the kingdom when there are "many" in God's church itself who God's word says will not enter in. In Revelation 2 and 3 they are warned specifically on this. The "Constant Positivity" God gives is "Repent, or Else!" Cool waters to the thirsty souls, but hot coals of fire on the heads of the obstinant souls. How can I do less than bear witness to this truth?


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Far be it from me to claim anyone in another country cannot come to God.
<<<

Far be it for me to claim that also, and I've never claimed that. On the contrary, I've always supported the truth that anyone from any people, race, tribe, area, or nation can be in Christ (Acts 10:34-35), for Christ is no respecter of persons. People from all countries can come to God through the name of Christ.

Colossians 3:11

A person from any country can be a Christian. But those deceived of false christs, religions and gods, cannot. At least not without repentance. Therefore the wrath of God abides upon them. Those aren't my personal opinions, they are the doctrines directly from the word of God.

James 1:26-27

If all religions led to God, all religions would be praised of God, not condemned in the strongest of terms all throughout the Bible.


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>>>
I'm not that arrogant.
<<<

Good, because the true Christian is not arrogant, he is humbled in his station in this world.

arrogance
ar∑ro∑gance | \ 'er-e-gance
1. having conceit; 2. an attitude of superiority manifested in
presumptuous claims or assumptions; 3. having an overabundance
of self-confidence in oneself. 4. exaggerating one's own worth
or importance; 5. showing an offensive attitude of superiority;
that proceeding from or characterized by pretentiousness; 6. the
quality of being unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are
more important than, or know more than other people.

I can safely say that I know more than exactly "no one." I consider my worth as being exactly what God says of me. That I am wretched, and without Christ, I am worthless in the big scheme of things. I have no self-confidence of my own, my confidence is in the Spirit and the word of the living God, who sustains me and is my ground of faith. My evaluation of myself is the same as the Apostle Paul.

Romans 7:23-25

Like the humble apostle, I think God that Jesus Christ is my justification, my strength, and my only Hope. Because if it depended upon me, I would end up exactly where the unsaved end up. So then, I have nothing to be arrogant or self-confident about. My confidence is in the faithfulness of Christ, not my own.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Rich Aikers on October 15, 2019, 09:47:29 AM
 &TY   )preach_(
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Reformer on October 15, 2019, 10:07:23 AM
Because "the word" is knowledge. I daily read the Scriptures that proclaim in a hundred different ways what serving the Lord entails. It "defines" who the Israel of God is, what the Spirit of truth will and will not confirm, how many gods lead to Jehovah, and how many names the Kingdom can be accessed through.

Well said Brother!  ]ThUmBsUp[ 
      People are forever attempting to make accommodations for everyone according to their own will, and Election doesn't work like that.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Pilgrim on October 15, 2019, 11:16:18 AM

"If you don't want to be criticized, say nothing, do nothing, and be nothing."

You know, ...like most "professing" Christians who wouldn't know the great commission if it was laid in their laps by a messenger of God.

 )amen(
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Robert Powell on October 15, 2019, 11:45:13 AM
More Tony, less Dan!  )L-candle(
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Mark on October 15, 2019, 11:19:52 PM
2 Cor 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
 
Itís a rhetorical question and the answer is there isnít to be any communion.
It is written:

Eph 4:4-6
4 There  is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Again
Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. 

Woe be to anyone not receiving Godí word and keeping it.

John 12:48
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Dan on October 16, 2019, 07:53:17 AM
2 Cor 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:

Who says they are unbelievers?  You are making an assumption. And if you don't fellowship with them, how are you to win them to Christ. Long Distance?
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Dan on October 16, 2019, 07:56:00 AM
>>>
while being in a false religion might facilitate someone's understanding that there is a God (Romans 1:20) that controls the universe, that doesn't equate to them serving that God.

How do you know?
<<<

Because "the word" is knowledge.

The word is knowledge but Drew is right when he asks how do you know? Do you think our word is less than your word? We have a bible too. It all depends on how you interpret it. By liberal means or by conservative means. Literal or spiritual.


Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Erik Diamond on October 16, 2019, 10:59:41 AM
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The word is knowledge but Drew is right when he asks how do you know?


Obviously you neither read or receive what Tony Warren wrote. Where is your SCRIPTURE PROOF that Drew is right? Hello?

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Do you think our word is less than your word? We have a bible too.


Oh, you have the Bible? Well.... have you actually used it here?  Look at your 299 posts made here so far, how many posts have you actually quoted with Sripture and explain it according to God's Word yourself, humm?

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It all depends on how you interpret it.

Wrong. Its how you compare Scripture with Scripture to find God's interpretation.  Not you. Not us.

Quote
By liberal means or by conservative means.

The Bible isn't political. It is pure God's Word. Nothing to do with liberal or conservative which is man-made.

Quote
Literal or spiritual.

Haven't you learn anything here? The real question for you is, will we let God decide what is literal and what is not literal, or do we arbitrarily make up our own rules of interpretation? Is the Bible its own interpreter, or are we the final judge? How will we know whether it is literal or spiritual? Well, wasn't you who claimed that you have the Bible? Well, Look for it in the Scripture and quote it with us then, can you? Well, based on your 299 posts here, doubtfully!  (http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?action=profile;u=87;area=showposts;start=0)
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Mark on October 16, 2019, 07:11:27 PM
2 Cor 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:

Who says they are unbelievers? 
What does God say about this?

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Quote
You are making an assumption. And if you don't fellowship with them, how are you to win them to Christ. Long Distance?

We donít win people to Christ, we witness/testify faithfully Godís word and his Spirit does the rest. You donít actually believe we go and fellowship in a Mormon or Catholic Church to convince someone into the kingdom do you? God himself draws his sheep out of an apostate place.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Drew on October 17, 2019, 07:34:51 AM
I daily read the Scriptures that proclaim in a hundred different ways what serving the Lord entails.


Does it entail condemning Premillennialism? I don't see that. I see you condemning it, not the scriptures.


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how many gods lead to Jehovah,

I'm not saying other gods lead to Jehovah, I'm saying people in another religion might find god there and then later come to truth.


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To be sure, there are a myriad of people who call themselves Christian who do not believe

There you go again talking as if we're not Christians because we don't believe like you. The bible doesn't say that.


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Isaiah 44:6
  • "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

And we all agree. But what about the millions of people in Japan? Are they all not helped because they live in that area of the world, or may God save them despite the fact they don't have a bible?


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I do as the honest/noble Bereans did, I search the Scriptures, comparing Scripture with Scripture, against the words of the Premillennarians, and I see if they are in harmony with God's word.

And we search the scriptures against the words of the Amillennialists and I see they are not in harmony with the bible.


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In other words, the Bereans were a lot more Spirit-filled so as to be honest with themselves where they didn't just blindly accept what the Jewish leaders taught them,

And where is Berea now? It's wiped off the face of the earth, the city now Veria. Bereans don't say what is truth, God does.


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Likewise, "this" is how I know Premillennarians (in general) don't preach the truth of God's word concerning the kingdom and reign, and "this" is why I have no fear of error in bearing witness to it.  Not because I am arrogant, smarter, or more learned than anyone else, but because "The Word" is clear on the issue.  Not because I am arrogant, smarter, or more learned than anyone else, but because "The Word" is clear on the issue.

Well, you should fear because He protects his chosen people..

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But "my" absolute authority is. #1. God's word is inerrant. #2. I testify to God's word, not my own. #3. As long as I don't add or take away from God's inerrant testimony, that word of truth is still inerrant. No matter who testifies to it. If you disagree, your argument is not with me, but with the word I bear witness to.

I disagree with your attempts to make the church Israel.


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"Constant positivity is a form of avoidance."

You don't think Christ's church is a positive?


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I ask, "who is causing God's people to err today?"

You?

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Boo Hoo. Should I rent my clothes and cry about criticism

If everyone criticizes you, then chances are you are wrong.

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Did any of Christ's disciples receive glowing praise for their teaching?

But you are hardly one of Christ's 12 Disciples, are you?


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"If you don't want to be criticized, say nothing, do nothing, and be nothing."

So you preach in order to be criticized?

Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Drew on October 17, 2019, 07:39:34 AM
2 Cor 6:14

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers:

Who says they are unbelievers? 
What does God say about this?

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


Mark, we know about liars. But you never answered Dan's question. Who says these people are unbelievers?  How do you know A Morman, A Catholic or even Ghandi was not a believer?


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We donít win people to Christ,

Phil 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Mark on October 17, 2019, 06:19:06 PM
Mark, we know about liars. But you never answered Dan's question. Who says these people are unbelievers?  How do you know A Morman, A Catholic or even Ghandi was not a believer?

Because they stayed in that religion which was false, God is a Spirit of Truth not falsehood. Of course his chosen may have started off in one of those churches but God by his grace pulls us out of those dark places into his light.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Bunyan on October 19, 2019, 07:22:57 AM

Mark, we know about liars. But you never answered Dan's question. Who says these people are unbelievers?


God does. He says it when he told you that no other religion leads to Godbyt the Christ religion. You simply don't want to accept what he says.


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We donít win people to Christ,

Phil 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

That I may Win Christ
Phil. 3:8
by Don Bell
That I may Win Christ

     What does it mean to WIN CHRIST? It doesn't mean that we can win His favor, or win His blessings by some act that we do, nor does it mean that we can win His special attention and get Him to do something special for us because we have done something to receive special treatment from Him. That can't possibly be what it means; for that is earning not winning Christ. You may say, "Well, preacher, if it doesn't mean these things, what does it mean?"

     When the apostle talked about his desire to WIN CHRIST, I believe he meant mainly one thing. It was that Christ Himself was the prize; Christ Himself was the goal for him. Christ became all in all. In the light of our Lord's glorious Person and His accomplished redemption, Paul counted everything else but dung and rubbish; willing to lose all, his own ambition, opportunities and attainments in the world. He counted anything that would detract from Christ's glory, that would hinder his conformity to His Lord as loss.

     Our Lord Jesus Himself said it like this, "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever will lose his life for My sake and the gospel's the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:35-36).

"If you don't count all loss for Christ in this world, it will be your eternal loss."
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Lower on October 19, 2019, 06:54:05 PM

Mark, we know about liars. But you never answered Dan's question. Who says these people are unbelievers?  How do you know A Morman, A Catholic or even Ghandi was not a believer?


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We donít win people to Christ,

Phil 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Your reference verse does not support the idea of winning people to Christ/God. As the commentary copied by Bunyan above illustrates the "I" may win Christ is speaking of Christ as the ultimate prize that Paul is made to look forward to after his conversion and through all that "I" have suffered the loss of all things - putting himself as good example for believers to persevere in this life, endure this world, for the sake of Christ and His gospel - until the end!

On the other hand, the answer from Mark was on winning people to Christ where he said we don't win people to Christ ... That's true because it is the Spirit of God that wins people to Christ. The "unsaved" people come to Christ as they are drawn by God to be saved in Christ.

Psa 2:8  Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Only after they are saved by the Name do they become called "believers". Why are you debating then if that is the only way people become "believers"? Would you still let yourself go to another gospel? One that denies Christ Jesus is the only way to God?

Wait a minute guys! I see contradiction of ideas within the statement of your position on the issue ...
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Lower on October 19, 2019, 07:53:49 PM

Who says they are unbelievers?  You are making an assumption. And if you don't fellowship with them, how are you to win them to Christ. Long Distance?
Emphases are mine, Lower!

If you claim they are yet to be brought to Christ, aren't they "unbelievers"?

What does to win men and women to Christ mean according to your understanding? Do you Premillennialists have different definition of the word "believers" than is described in the Bible (cf. Joh 14:1, Zec 13:9, Rev 14:12)? In whom did you say they believe? If they are without Christ, if they don't believe in Christ, how can they be considered believers? According to whose rule?

I agree with Mark about being careful not to mix ourselves with "unbelievers" (i.e. separate from those followers of other gods and also from those believers in atheism). You don't fellowship with them because God commanded not to:

2Co 6:14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Mal 3:16  Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Mal 3:17  And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


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Joh 20:17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Lower on October 19, 2019, 09:39:54 PM

... How do you know Premillennialists don't preach the truth? ... Far be it from me to claim anyone in another country cannot come to God.

Scratched my hair, ... Last time I heard ... Weren't Premils the ones who claim God loves only people of a certain country, and always had ways to fight against the gospel sent to all nations without distinction of race, color, or men or women, nationality or language?

Your friends are unhappy when they found out God build again the tabernacle of David (i.e. the Body of Christ), in that He did fulfill all the promises He had made to OT fathers. May the Lord open their eyes to see the glorious work of extending His salvation to the utmost part of the earth, established eternal covenant so untouchable by men.


Act 15:13  And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14  Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15  And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16  After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17  That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom "my name" is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18  Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

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I'm not that arrogant.

Would to God that is the case with the opponents of truth few of them we even have in this forum. And they are with you on holding to their Dispensational-Premil-doctrines that goes contrary to God's purpose and plan of salvation. They are not happy with God extending His salvation to the four corners of the Earth; ... So does God towards people who raise their head against Him.

1Th 2:15  Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 
1Th 2:16  Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. 
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Betty on October 20, 2019, 09:28:30 AM

Has anyone answered the question what about those who have never heard the Gospel?  I don't think so.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Mark on October 20, 2019, 08:13:25 PM

Has anyone answered the question what about those who have never heard the Gospel?  I don't think so.

Rom 9:15,16
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Betty, only the elect of God have mercy/grace bestowed on them, everyone else will have to pay for their sins on the last day. Which means if they are a vessels of honour they receive Christ reward everything is inconsequential.

Rom 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Betty on October 21, 2019, 07:47:54 AM

Has anyone answered the question what about those who have never heard the Gospel?  I don't think so.

Rom 9:15,16
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Betty, only the elect of God have mercy/grace bestowed on them,



Mark, First thank you for answering my question which so many others just ignore. But I have to ask, so you are confirming that all those who have never heard the gospel are just out of luck? They don't even have a chance at salvation simply because they live in an area where there is no gospel?


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everyone else will have to pay for their sins on the last day.

I understand that's what is taught, but since everyone sins, how is it fair that some are pardoned while others have no opportunity?


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Which means if they are a vessels of honour they receive Christ reward everything is inconsequential.

Rom 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

How are they a vessel of honor if they sin just like the vessels of dishonor?
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Drew on October 21, 2019, 01:58:08 PM
On the other hand, the answer from Mark was on winning people to Christ where he said we don't win people to Christ .

Lower. Why does Paul say we run the race if not to win Do we run the race for a participation throphy?

"If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them." Romans 11:14

Can you address the questions? Do we save some or no?


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Only after they are saved by the Name do they become called "believers".

Then why do some believers fall away? Were they not believers and not saved?

"They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." Luke 8:13

Is that what the Bible says?
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Mark on October 21, 2019, 06:54:38 PM

Mark, First thank you for answering my question which so many others just ignore. But I have to ask, so you are confirming that all those who have never heard the gospel are just out of luck? They don't even have a chance at salvation simply because they live in an area where there is no gospel?
For all the Father has chosen to be conformed to the image of the Son will be justified and glorified as is written in scripture. Not about luck but Godís sovereign right to choose whomever he wills, not mans.
 
John 1:12,13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

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I understand that's what is taught, but since everyone sins, how is it fair that some are pardoned while others have no opportunity?

Everyone does sin so itís a righteous thing God punishes man for it, as is written For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 6:23)

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Which means if they are a vessels of honour they receive Christ reward everything is inconsequential.

Rom 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
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How are they a vessel of honor if they sin just like the vessels of dishonor?

They (elect) are vessels of honour because they have been clothed with Christ righteousness which is the a unmerited gift of God or as we say Grace.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Jenny on October 26, 2019, 07:42:59 AM
Thank you all for your very helpful posts on this subject. I didn't believe what I heard but I thought that it was strange to hear some Christians I talked to say that doctrine isn't really essential and that all religions lead to God. That sounded really unbiblical but I needed some points to make and you gave me great answers. Particularly on the idea that whatever name people call him, it's the same God. That can't be true if our God condemns other gods and says there is only one God. I should have thought of that myself. I may have other questions but wanted to say thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Do All Religions Lead To The Same God?
Post by: Dan on November 03, 2019, 08:57:17 AM

Doctrine might be important, but it's not essential.