The Mountain Retreat

Biblical Discussions => Apologetics => Topic started by: R. Anspach on November 03, 2017, 11:27:06 AM

Title: What Is Love?
Post by: R. Anspach on November 03, 2017, 11:27:06 AM
While I was witnessing to someone this week, I spoke of how we are to love and not hate. But I was taken aback by a question from the person who asked me the definition of love. What is love? Is it a feeling or is it a action. I didn't know how to answer that. Can anyone shed some light on this question. The world has one definition, but what is the Christian definition?
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Maurice on November 03, 2017, 02:15:50 PM
 :typing: No one knows the answer to the question of "what is love." If they did, they'd be a millionaire. It's the question that has baffled scholars for ages.

For what it's worth, my personal submission, love is just the adoration you feel for someone.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: aquatic on November 03, 2017, 06:09:00 PM
I read an article on this site that had a great explanation of love. It is 1 Corinthians:13 (4-8)

 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.


The article focused mainly on verse 6. While the world has its idea of love, it forgets to include verse 6. The world does not rejoice in the truth, which is Jesus Christ.

Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Halle on November 03, 2017, 06:42:25 PM
For what it's worth, my personal submission, love is just the adoration you feel for someone.

That's your personal opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. But that's not the true definition of love, because Christ tells us to love our enemies, and we certainly do not have a adoration feeling for the ministers of Satan in my personal opinion. So the Christian definition is still a type of mystery for me.

Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Sojourner on November 04, 2017, 12:18:25 AM
I read an article on this site that had a great explanation of love. It is 1 Corinthians:13 (4-8)

 
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

The article focused mainly on verse 6. While the world has its idea of love, it forgets to include verse 6. The world does not rejoice in the truth, which is Jesus Christ.

I don't know if I would call I Cor. 13 a definition, I look at those as more the features and attributes of love. For example, lots of unsaved people do not rejoice in iniquity and also have respect for the truth, but I wouldn't say they have or even know what love is. At least not the love that the bible talks about. God is love, and so I would say that only those who know God know love.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Joe Johnson on November 04, 2017, 06:59:32 AM
We can only go by the dictionary, which defines love as

1. a intense feeling of deep affection: "babies fill parents with intense feelings of love"
   synonyms: deep affection, fondness, tenderness, warmth, intimacy,
2. a person or thing that one loves: "she was the love of his life"
   synonyms: beloved, loved one, love of one's life, dear, dearest.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Dan on November 04, 2017, 08:10:25 AM

Love makes the world go round  ;)

 It's a mental and physical energy. Mostly summed up in our emotions and sentiments of strong affection for someone or something.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Reformer on November 05, 2017, 01:02:09 AM
Mostly summed up in our emotions and sentiments of strong affection for someone or something
 

Did you read Halle's post and God's command?

Mt 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Is loving your enemy summed up in our emotions and sentiments of strong affection for them? It is not. So that cannot be the Christian definition of love. Christian love should not a matter of personal opinion or dictionary definitions.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Diane Moody on November 05, 2017, 03:36:41 AM
Tony Warren defined love in one of his posts as:

   "selfless inclination, the gift you give wanting nothing in return, the earnest desire to do the will of God. That's why God commands, if you love me, keep my commandments. Since God is the personification of love."

His words, not mine. But I think that fits the "love our enemy" command of God very well. We have compassion for them as sinners just as Christ had compassion for us. If our enemies thirst we should give them water, if they hunger we should feed them. But they are not our family or of us, they aren't beloved, and they aren't adored and we do not have admiration for them. Tony says love is sacrificial or selfless charity and goodwill, even as a husband has to his wife (and vice versa). What do you think?
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Joe Johnson on November 05, 2017, 05:30:21 AM
I think it's trite and platitudinous, but it's what I would expect. Yes God is love, but would you be charitable to an abortionist? That's anarchy, not love. That's disobeying God's laws. We all know what love is. I love my wife, I hate murderers. God loves Jacob, He hates Esau. Simple.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Jon Thomas on November 05, 2017, 12:45:42 PM
Tony Warren defined love in one of his posts as:

   "selfless inclination, the gift you give wanting nothing in return, the earnest desire to do the will of God. That's why God commands, if you love me, keep my commandments. Since God is the personification of love."

Yes, I agree. Love is sacrifice. No sacrifice, no love. That's why there is so much divorce. There is a lack of love in the relationships because neither wants to sacrifice. So there is no compromise. It's just my needs, my wants, my will. No consideration of anyone else's needs. And I'm talking about Christians. If a gift is given, something is wanted in return. That's not Love, that's trade.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Melanie on November 06, 2017, 02:23:03 AM
I agree with Tony. Also, I'll repost a message I made in the "Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter" thread. It may shed some light on the Christian position on love.

To quote Thomas Doolittle.

"Love shows the true character of a man, according to the object which he loves more than anything else: for as is the love, so is the man. According to his love, so might you confidently designate the man. If he is a lover of honour, he is an ambitious man; a lover of pleasure, a sensual man; and if he chiefly love the world, he is a covetous man. If a man loves righteousness, he is a religious man; if the things above, a heavenly-minded man; and if he love Christ with a pre-eminent love, he is a sincere man: "Rightly do they love you.," Song of Songs 1:4.

If Christ has our love, he has our all; and Christ never has what he deserves from us, till he has our love. True love withholds nothing from Christ, when it is sincerely set upon him. If we actually love him, he will have our time, and he will have our service, and he will have the use of all our resources, and gifts, and graces; indeed, then he shall have our possessions, freedom, and our very lives, whenever he calls for them. In the same way, when God loves any of us, he will withhold nothing from us that is good for us. He does not hold back his own only begotten Son, Rom.8:32. When Christ loves us, he gives us everything we need-- his merits to justify us, his Spirit to sanctify us, his grace to adorn us, and his glory to crown us. Therefore, when any of us love Christ sincerely, we lay everything down at his feet, and give up all to be at his command and service: "And they loved not their lives unto the death," Rev. 12:11.

An extract from the book by Thomas Doolittle: Love to Christ
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Kevin Wright on November 06, 2017, 04:42:34 AM
We can only go by the dictionary,

Why?  You may only go by the dictionary, the rest of us will define love by God's terms.


Quote
which defines love as

1. a intense feeling of deep affection:

Infatuation can be defined as a intense feeling of deep attraction, but it's not love. Love is not the same as infatuation, except in the world's definition of it. God commands love, he does not command infatuation. I love my enemies, but I don't have a intense feeling of deep affection for them. You see what I mean? Because God's love is different from the world's definition of it.
.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Reformer on November 06, 2017, 01:29:33 PM
We can only go by the dictionary, which defines love as

1. a intense feeling of deep affection:

 You may only go by the dictionary, the rest of us will define love by God's terms.

Infatuation can be defined as a intense feeling of deep attraction, but it's not love. Love is not the same as infatuation, except in the world's definition of it.

 :iagree: Both the world and a majority of the Christian community define love with what is in effect infatuation. That's why they "fall out of" love (infatuation) where they can no longer tolerate their spouse and end up leaving and divorcing. Along with the love of Christian marriage comes sacrifice and commitment. A marriage covenant is a promise or oath that cannot be broken. It requires sacrifice, just as Christ sacrificed for us. I don't care what any Pastor says, their is no lawful divorce in Christian love. Else Christ would have divorced the church long ago. But his love is unconditional, which is what Christian or Christlike love is.

 Mt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Christian love is not conditional, it's sacrificial, which is why we are commanded to love our enemies.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Jenny on June 04, 2019, 11:18:26 AM
I've read other threads concerning this thread and point and I'm a little confused. Are you guys saying that if we don't have love, are we not true Christians? Because honestly, I do struggle with bad feelings and animosity against particular people. Especially hypocritical TV evangelists, false witnesses, dispensationalists, liars and anti Christian folk that I must deal with on a regular basis ion my job. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that you are saying I should love them anyway and just tell them the truth of and that they keep God's commandments and let them carry on in their wrong doing?

All of you have your own definition of love. I'm trying to understand just what love really means to the average joe. Yes the Bible says love is defined as "to keep the commandments of God." You agree. The problem is that this is impossible.  I don't know what the Reformed define as breaking God's commands, but I know that I sin and I know that no one is perfect. So try as we may, we can't keep all the commandments. We would like to, but we just can't seem to do it. Love can't be defined as keeping God's commandments.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Joe Johnson on June 04, 2019, 01:40:03 PM
 )Goodpoint(  Let's see who answers  )-Oh-tHe-DrAma-(
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: David Knoles on June 06, 2019, 07:54:00 PM

Love is teaching Dispensationalism and supporting Israel against the forces of people trying to supplant her.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Tony Warren on June 07, 2019, 09:52:26 AM
>>>
Are you guys saying that if we don't have love, are we not true Christians?
<<<

1st John 4:7-8

I'm not saying that, God is saying that. Because No True Christian is without love (Matthew 18:32-35) or he's not a true Christian. We're not talking about love as the world defines it, but as God does. When we are born of the Holy Spirit, we are born in His love where we have a new nature and are a new creation (2nd Peter 1:4; 2nd Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15) that is charitable or benevolent. One who earnestly desires to do the will of God. If not we are just kidding ourselves.

1st John 2:4

So, where is the love of God in those who God do not "keep" or "guard from loss" His commandments? There are none because it's all lip service wherein there is no true knowledge of God. All true Christians earnestly desire to keep God's commandments because they love as they are loved. But the desire is not of themselves, the love that the true Christian has received this as a free gift from God. It is not a mere feeling, emotion, or infatuation like the world often defines love. We only have love in the first instance because God loved us and gave it to us by faith. If we have the faith "of" Christ, we have the love of God. Consequently, where there is no love, there is no real faith of Christ.

1st John 4:19-21

Sure, we can all sit around and play psychological chess if we like, but the bottom line is this, he who has no love or compassion for his fellow man, has no love of God. ...or to put it more succinctly and plainly, he is not a Christian. He is a liar. True Christians "desire" to keep the word of God--they don't seek paths around it.

1st John 5:3-4

What is the love of God? It is that we keep His commandments. So again, I'm not saying it, God has said it again and again and again. Sadly many Christians have no fear of God and so are not listening to His words. They are pretending that these are things that man says rather than God. They have forsaken keeping God's laws.

2nd John 6


Quote
>>>
Because honestly, I do struggle with bad feelings and animosity against particular people. Especially hypocritical TV evangelists, false witnesses, dispensationalists, liars and anti-Christian folk that I must deal with on a regular basis ion my job.
<<<

Everybody sins because no one is perfect. To keep God's commandments doesn't mean that you will never commit a sin by breaking any of God's laws, rather it means that you have a "new nature" that loathes sin. You have the Spirit of God to "keep" or to "hold fast" the words of Scripture even while all those professing Christians around you are twisting, denying, and trampling God's word underfoot.

As for only loving our friends but not our enemies, God warns about that also. In reality, most every unsaved person does that routinely. But with God's Spirit guiding us, are we not to be more conscientious than unsaved people? It is only the Christian who will love their enemy desiring for them the salvation that they have received.

Matthew 5:46-48

The deeper spiritual lesson here is that in our loving only those who love us, then where is the evidence that we have received a new nature and character with holy principles in Christ Jesus? Even the worst of men will do this in loving their mother or their families and friends. As those called unto service of Christ, we are not to be just like the world but set apart as Spiritually superior to the world in character and in love. Of course, it's not easy, but no one ever said it would be.


Quote
>>>
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that you are saying I should love them anyway and just tell them the truth of and that they keep God's commandments and let them carry on in their wrong doing?
<<<

Am I saying you should love your enemies? Absolutely, which is nothing more than what Christ said. As for your comment, no you cannot prevent anyone from carrying on in their wrongdoing, you can merely be a witness to the truth. A messenger of God by whom they will either be led by His word to the truth, or carry on in their unrighteousness. None of that changes the fact that "Yes, you should" love them anyway and testify of the truth that they might keep God's commandments. That is an evidence of true agape love or charity among mankind. We should never forget or neglect that God sent his Son to die for those of us who were hypocrites, who were thieves, who were prostitutes, drunkards, cheating husbands and wives. God didnt wait for sinners like me and you to get holy before He loved us. He made us Holy. Love is agape or benevolent charity and compassion, which love God indeed had for us. Can we seek anything less for our fellow man?

Lue 6:27-33

What thank have ye indeed. Since you are doing no more than your unsaved brethren does, are you not yet as carnal as they are? We certainly cannot say we're different if we act just like the world does and love just as the world loves. Where is the good Samaritan, the charity, the evangelism, the compassion for your fellow man who has not been blessed as you have? Where is the good Samaritans of our day? Is that good now unreceptive and deemed unchristian, evil, or even careless?

1st John 3:17-24

Blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. The Bible also declares in Galatians 5:14 and Romans 13:8 that "the whole law is fulfilled in one word:" That word is love. "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."  Those who ask how is love fulfilled in the law should study these type chapters and realize that without love, Christ couldn't have fulfilled the law for us. It is from His love that we are no longer under law.


Quote
>>>
All of you have your own definition of love. I'm trying to understand just what love really means to the average joe.
<<<

Actually all of us shouldn't have our own personal/private definition of love. As Christians or followers of Christ, we all should hold to Christ's definition of love. And that definition is found in His Holy word. If you are really trying to understand what love really means to the average joe, you should ask the average Joe. But if you want to know what God's definition of love is, you should ask God. And He speaks authoritatively through His Holy word, which clearly defines genuine Christian love as the benevolent compassion and concern for the spiritual well being of others. That means Christian obedience that comes from being regenerated. The source of that type of love is God, which in contrast to the worlds idea of love, is to have no ill will towards others. Indeed knowing their spiritual condition we can't help but grieve and mourn for them, as opposed to hating or having ill will towards them because of their ignorance.

Romans 13:10
1t John 4:6-8

The authoritative word declares that love fulfills the law. But what does that mean? The Bible concretely defines love precisely in terms of the keeping of God's commandments. If everyone loved, then they would be keeping God's commandments. For example, if you love your neighbor as yourself, you are perfectly fulfilling the command to love by keeping the second commandment of the law, which can only be done in Christ. These Scriptures are not declaring that the Christians will keep this standard perfectly in his life, rather it is illustrating that perfect obedience to the law is the standard to which Christians will aspire because they have Christ's Spirit moving them towards the will of God.  Sure, any professing Christian can form a private interpretation of what love is, but true Christianity defines Christ's love by God's word. It's immaterial to me how the average joe defines love--the relevant question is how God wants His people to view love. Is it that important? Well, faith, hope, and love abide, but the greatest of these is love (1st Corinthians 13:13). That's how important it is.


Quote
>>>
Yes the Bible says love is defined as "to keep the commandments of God." You agree. The problem is that this is impossible.  I don't know what the Reformed define as breaking God's commands, but I know that I sin and I know that no one is perfect. So try as we may, we can't keep all the commandments. We would like to, but we just can't seem to do it. Love can't be defined as keeping God's commandments.
<<<

Why not? Is that what you get from reading the Scriptures or is that just what you personally understand of "keeping God's commandments?" I believe love involves self-denial and sacrifice. Most people don't love because they don't want to make that sacrifice. i.e., doing the right thing is hard, it's a sacrifice, it's often painful self-denial for the sake of others. Agape benevolence is the growth of love in us. One of the best examples of Love was left us by our Saviour.
...that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (Joh 3:16).

That's sacrifice and that is love. The fact that he was obedient unto death is something the church seems to have long forgotten. Following is an excerpt from a post of a previous conversation with someone in 2002 with very similar concerns and questions as you, as I think it applies perfectly to your questions as well:

---
I think that there is a misunderstanding that keeping God's commandments means that Christians won't sin (transgress God's Commandments). The only way to keep God's commandments unto life is perfectly in Christ. Rather keeping God's commandments illustrates that they will not depart from God's commandments in the sense of abandonment. "Keep" meaning that they will guard it against loss. To keep in this way means to hold-fast or guard from loss. In other words, that they will remain faithful in that they won't forsake or fall away from the faith once delivered to the saints. They will not depart from it, not desert it, cast it aside or repudiate what the word of God says. Look at a true Christian and a false Christian and tell me what is the difference. 

... besides one having the Holy Spirit and a new nature.

The difference is that one keeps God's word and the other denies it, finds ways around it, forsakes it or twists it. That they will not and cannot "keep" God's commandments or laws is evidence of their lack of love of God. They are offended by God's commandments and so have no interest in obeying them.

The word translated keep is the Greek [tereo] meaning to guard or watch, and by extension to guard against loss. In this context of commandments, it means to guard against degradation or the departing from these laws.

1st Timothy 4:1

This departing from the laws of God is what is meant by not "keeping" God's commandments. The church in not guarding against the loss of the laws of God by continuing to walk as Christ walked. Instead, they are walking according to the carnal desires of the flesh. You see it's one thing to sin, to then recognize your sin, confess it, and turn away from it, and it's quite another to rationalize away sin claiming that it is not a sin in the first place. One is "keeping" God's laws and in the other, the church is departed from the laws of God. i.e., they have not held fast or kept the commandments of God. e.g.:

Psalms 32:5

One acknowledges God's laws by acknowledging sin, and this because of the love of God manifested in an earnest desire to keep the commandments of God. By contrast,  the other denies their sin is actually sin and they seek ways around the commandments or to justify their actions. Because they have no love of God, no fear of God and no earnest desire to actually receive or be obedient to God's laws.

For example, if God's word makes no provision for remarriage of the divorced and declares that He that marries a divorced person commits adultery (Luke 16:18), and I testify to that God authored truth, I am keeping or guarding against the loss of that precept or commandment. However, if I turn around and reject that precept and claim that He that marries a divorced person is not committing adultery, then I am not "Keeping" God's commandments because I am justifying disobedience to it.  Thus by "THIS EVIDENCE", they are showing forth the spirit of disobedience to His commandments. There is no real "Love" of God here. So I repeat:

1st John 2:3-5

This doesn't mean that unless we don't ever commit sin or break His commandments, then we don't know Christ. It means that the evidence that we do know Christ is that we keep (Guard from loss) or remain faithful to His commandments. We have that fear of God and the Spirit of truth within us whereby whenever we break God's commandments, we are vexed and mourn for it. We do not stand up and DENY that God's word actually said it (as so many of our day do). We don't rationalize it away in order to remain carnal or to continue to do things we "want" to do anyway. True love is that we keep the doctrines we have learned because our desire is to please God and for our neighbor o have the same gift as we have received. 1st Timothy chapter 4, which spoke of the departing from doctrines of faith, speaks also of our continuing in (keeping) doctrine, its purpose and outcome.

1st Timothy 4:16

In departing from God's commandments, we are departing from the paths of salvation. Correct doctrine and salvation are intimately related (despite the protests of those who claim that would be a works gospel). The Bible says that He that saith he abideth in Christ ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked. That's confessing God's word rather than as some going to great lengths to deny that it actually means what it says. Of course, we all struggle with sin and bad thoughts about others, but that's not necessarily an absence of love. If you don't fear God and you don't really care about others, THAT is a lack of God authored agape love vs. worldly love.

Every religion in the world has people in it who dearly love their family members, their neighbors, and their countrymen. But that's not the love of God in salvation, it is friendship, emotional or experiential love. True love (as defined by God) is that we desire to spiritually heal others. We desire for our enemy the same love, the very same salvation that we ourselves have received (Matthew 10:8 ). It means we desire they would "KEEP" the commandments of God, or be true Christians faithful to God's word and not to the flesh that constantly wars against it. Because we know that in their keeping God's commandments, thereby is the love Of God Perfected.

As I say, most struggle with my bad feelings for another person at sometime or another, but that is what God's Grace is all about. He is faithful to forgive us our sins. Not one of us is perfect, as we ALL have feet of clay. We recognize our sin, repent of it, pray for our enemies confessing our sin against them to God and asking for strength to overcome, and He is faithful to forgive us and to sustain us in time of 'trial.'

One Christian man told me he was upset because his wife demanded that he love her unconditionally and always be nice to her. My reply was that this is nothing more than (as a Christian) you should demand of yourself. Which doesn't mean that he should let her walk all over him, but that he make sure that in all he does, it is not for her hurt, but her good. Of course in the end no one can force him to be nice to her, nor her to him, but we all should be in the 'frame of mind' that we desire all the best for people. Never allow bad feelings to eat away at you because it does harm to yourself, and to whom you hate. If we don't want to see anyone under God's wrath, we pray for them and ask God's forgiveness for them. Lay all our burdens down at the feet of the cross ..and leave them there.
Make sure we understand that it's not all about us. If we take our eyes off ourselves and place them on the Lord, we can't be looking and thinking about ourselves, thus show love for others. That agape charity and desire of no ill will towards them.

I caution that first and foremost we have to get it straight in our 'own minds' how we are to feel about those who are enemies. TRUE Love is not conditional, and so it doesn't depend upon if this person treats us well or not. To love is a command of God, not a suggestion. Thus we should keep that command, guard it against loss, make sure that it's the starting point. We are already in this situation of animosity so fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life, whereunto we are also called. Again, love is to desire for this person the same things as you desire for yourself. Simply put, do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Many critics don't understand how Christ's words apply to real life situations. Being unloving would only apply if we were taking scripture and claiming that it doesn't apply, or that it is irrelevant today, or that it didn't mean what it said. There are different kinds of love. Like [phileo] love which is more of a friendship, and [agape] Love which is more of the gift-like charitable, benevolent love where we expect nothing in return. So our enemies hate us. We hated Christ also, and yet while we were dead in trespass and sin, He loved, called and gave repentance to us. Can we do less? So yes, as friends show phileo love or friendship, but also show the greatest love which is agape, and share the gospel, Go forth with an earnest desire that our foes might find peace, and do so in all that you have as a faithful Christian. True love is experienced through self-denial or sacrifice. It is the kind of love that in our day has largely grown cold.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Tony Warren on June 07, 2019, 09:54:29 AM
>>>
 )Goodpoint(  Let's see who answers  )-Oh-tHe-DrAma-(
<<<

The only thing that we can be pretty much sure of, is that it won't be you.  :-\

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Tony Warren on June 07, 2019, 10:50:04 AM
>>>
Love is teaching Dispensationalism...
<<<

Love is illustrated in teaching the unadulterated gospel message of the Kingdom, which I might add is antithetical to the doctrines and teachings of Dispensationalism. Here is the faith and patience of the saints--that they "keep" the laws of God. That they guard it from loss through discrediting, neglect (2nd Kings 22:11-13), and wresting/twisting. Keeping God's laws in love means to both receive them freely and preserve them conscientiously. Man need not overly speak against Dispensationalism, God speaks against it in the testimony of His word, and does so conclusively. ...as Christ says, if we will receive it.

Ephesians 2:11

Just one of the many laws of God that have been witnessed to you concerning the oneness of God's people Israel, and which you have cast aside as meaningless with regard to His one people Israel being both Jews and Gentiles. When God says love is demonstrated by "keeping" His commandments, this is part of that. Love is not Dispensationalism, love is keeping or holding fast to whatever God says. Why? Because Love gendereth to obedience. And blessed are those who are not offended by God's love for all His children regardless of race, creed or tribe.

Galatians 3:28

As it is written, "Believeth thou This!"  Do we receive and keep this, or reject that it really says what it says and cast this away as being ungodly?


Quote
>>>
...and supporting Israel against the forces of people trying to supplant her.
<<<

Love is manifested in supporting the Israel of God, which is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy body made up of all races, creeds, tribes and nations.

Romans 9:6-8

The Covenant with Israel is represented by the Olive tree, with Gentiles grafted in. The children of God are not "just" jews, they are made up of all nationalities. And THIS is what is meant by Keeping the commandments of God. Do we guard them from loss, or cast them underfoot as meaningless with regard to Israel, the Jews and the Promise. "Love" is deciding that it is God rather than Dispensationalist teachers that knows what He is talking about. ...that it is His word/law/commandments that are faithful, authoritative and true. That the kingdom representation has been taken from "national" Israel and given to another because they are rejecting Christ their savior. So then, shall we "keep" that word, or cast it under foot? One is true love and the other a demonstration of no love.

As for the forces of evil that come against Israel with fiery darts? God is her protector, and we are His witnesses that He needs no assistance from the forces of the world. Israel is able to stand in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation among whom she shines as the light of the world. So I'll grab my sword, helmet and breastplate and you grab yours and in the end the Israel of God is the 0only one that will prevail.

Ephesians 6:11-18

The faithful Christian's wrestling or fighting, is not with those wicked opposed to a political nation called Israel located in the middle east, it is against spiritual wicked people opposed to Spiritual Israel, and our weapons are not carnal, they are spiritual, and the defense of this Israel is not with missiles, planes, tanks and guns, it is with the sword of the Spirit and the breastplate of faith and the helmet of salvation. You want truth, look deeper into the ethos that is the Israel of God, not a rebellious people in the middle east. The wicked are rulers of the darkness of this world commanded by the great deceiver Satan. Those who want to come into high or heavenly places to usurp God's place on the throne. If we really want to find the boogie man, we need look no further than our own house. Nevertheless, Israel and it true believers have nothing to fear from any gun, any man or any nation. They are sealed/secured of the Holy Spirit and sanctified with all spiritual blessings in the Kingdom.
 
"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Nikki on June 07, 2019, 01:24:59 PM
 )Bible-Red(  )amen(  )GoodPopst(
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: David Knoles on June 07, 2019, 08:33:44 PM
>>>
Love is teaching Dispensationalism...
<<<
Just one of the many laws of God that have been witnessed to you concerning the oneness of God's people Israel


So you don't love God's people of Israel, just the Jewish impersonators that pretend to be Israel. OK, I get it.  Most of you just continue to ignore scripture don't you?

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3


Quote
Quote
>>>
...and supporting Israel against the forces of people trying to supplant her.
<<<

Love is manifested in supporting the Israel of God, which is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy body made up of all races, creeds, tribes and nations.

That's not Israel, that's the church. You are confused as all Reformed theologians are.

"1 Tim. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

That's the church, not Israel because she is separate.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: aquatic on June 08, 2019, 12:56:21 AM
>>>
Love is teaching Dispensationalism...
<<<
Just one of the many laws of God that have been witnessed to you concerning the oneness of God's people Israel


So you don't love God's people of Israel, just the Jewish impersonators that pretend to be Israel. OK, I get it.  Most of you just continue to ignore scripture don't you?

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3

That is speaking of Christ. Its reiterated at the end of Acts Chapter 3.

Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Philly Dawg on June 08, 2019, 04:29:42 PM
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3

John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Genesis 12:3
 
And I will bless them that bless thee,… Not the priests only that should bless his children, the children of Israel, as the Targum of Jonathan, but all men of all nations, and of every age, that speak well of him, commend him for his faith and holiness, and tread in his steps, these are blessed with faithful Abraham, Ga 3:7.

And curse him that curseth thee; here is a change of numbers, before the plural, here the singular, denoting, it may be, that many would bless him, and but few curse him, and that every individual person that did curse him should be cursed himself: the Targum of Jonathan wrongly restrains this to Balaam's cursing Abraham's children, and was cursed by God; Maimonides1 thinks, there is no doubt to be made of it, that the Zabaeans, the idolatrous people Abram was brought up with, when he contradicted them, loaded him with curses and reproaches; and, because he bore them all patiently for the glory of God, as became him, therefore these words are said; but they, without question, respect future as well as present times, and regard all such, in every age and of every nation, that disapproves of, or rejects and reproaches Abram's God, his faith, his religion, and his people.

And in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed of all nations, are blessed in him; and that whoever of them are blessed, they are blessed and only blessed in him, and that they are blessed for his sake with all spiritual blessings; see Eph 1:3 such as redemption, justification, remission of sins, sanctification, adoption, and eternal life.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Tim Norton on June 08, 2019, 08:30:59 PM
Is there an online book where you get these commentaries Philly?
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Tony Warren on June 12, 2019, 08:08:20 AM
>>>
So you don't love God's people of Israel, just the Jewish impersonators that pretend to be Israel.
<<<

If God says we are Jews are not defined by Him as those who are outwardly Jewish (in the flesh), but those who are Jews at heart and in the Spirit, then God's word is good enough for me.  Indeed it should be good enough for any conscientious Christian. I don't need man to corroborate that. His word is authoritative, trustworthy and incapable of being wrong.

Romans 2:28-29

Why would I need additional validation of God's word from man? Something many have not yet learned is that though man may look on the outward show or appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart (1st Samuel 16:7). We aren't impersonators as you charge, nor do we seek the praise of men, we only desire to do the will of God. We make no pretense of an earthly Israel being Holy, but of the Spiritual Jews being in Christ, the ultimate Israel of God.


Quote
>>>
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.
- Genesis 12:1-3
<<<

This Covenant or Promise was not declaring that only he and his physical children shall be blessed, nor that all that bless him or them would be blessed, but that all people of all races, tribes and nations in every age should be blessed through this Covenant through the power of his Seed, Christ. To suppose that anyone who blessed physical Israel would also be blessed is a covenant of works, and contradicts God's own words that He is not a respecter of persons. Not to mention that He's already said multiple times that Gentiles come into Israel and are hears of the exact same promises. NOT that Gentiles would move to the physical nation of Israel, but that they would come into this spiritual Covenant with Israel. As indeed is "vividly" illustrated by Israel being the Olive Tree and Gentiles branches being grafted "into" it. ...not having a separate tree as you suppose, but grafted into this exact same Covenant with Israel. This promise was made to Abraham and his Seed, which speaks of Christ. You've got your eyes on a law of works and vain physical genealogy for the blessings of Israel, instead of the man Christ.

Titus 3:9

The only genealogy that is important today is that we are family/children/generation of God, not the pureness of our bloodline, origin or race. The genealogy to whom all the birthrights, adoptions, and families pertain, and that the sacrifices, ceremonies, ablutions and promises pointed, is the seed born of God. Being a Jew, Roman or Greek is immaterial to the Covenant with Israel, who is Christ Jesus. All peoples of the earth are not blessed through the man Abraham, but through the man Christ.

Galatians 3:14-16

The apostles were the children of the covenant with Israel, and here it is made clear the Gentiles join with them in that blessing, as indeed is also illustrated so vividly in Romans 11 and the Olive tree. This is all fulfilling of the New Covenant with Israel wherein through Christ, all are heirs of the promises. The point is, in his Seed, which is Christ is how we are all hears of the Promises to Israel.

Acts 3:25-26

That's the church. All peoples on earth are blessed through His Seed Christ, not the nation of Israel.


Quote
>>>
Love is manifested in supporting the Israel of God, which is neither Jew nor Gentile, but one holy body made up of all races, creeds, tribes and nations.

That's not Israel, that's the church. You are confused as all Reformed theologians are.
<<<

Israel is in the first instance Christ (Numbers 24:5-8), and in the second those who represent Christ through His covenant with them (both old and new covenants). Study to show thyself approved of God a workman, needing not to be ashamed. Here's some good places to start.

Exodus 4:22
Isaiah 49:2-3
Hosea 11:1
Matthew 2:14-15

Christ is the Son, the Servant Israel, in whom the Lord God would be glorified.  Selah.


Quote
>>>
"1 Tim. 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
<<<

What then? Are there two different and separate houses of God? One for Jews and one for Gentiles? Where do you read such untenable ideas, because it is certainly not from the pages of the Holy Bible. Is the house of God divided or separated by means of a carnal recognition of diverse flesh? The unpalatable truth is that Arabs are the physical seed of Abraham just as the Jews are. If you are attempting to use that passage of Genesis as a proof text for the physical seeds of Abraham, then the logical conclusion of your argument makes such divisions of blessedness based upon physical distinctions, untenable? But we already know the seed refers not to his Jewish descendants, but to Christ.

Galatians 3:16

Any verse you can bring up ultimately points us back to Christ, the only Israel of God wherein all the peoples of the earth will be blessed.


Quote
>>>
That's the church, not Israel because she is separate.
<<<

The church is the she, is the woman, is the body, is the house of God, is the Holy Temple, is the congregation, is the chosen, is the Israel, tc., etc.

Ephesians 2:13-19

Why would you think that the Lord has separated His people? For what purpose and for what distinction? The Lord only has "ONE" Congregation, one "body" of believers, one Covenanted people, one household, and one assembly of the firstborn, and that is New Covenant Israel or as is also called in modern times, the New Testament church. What was once "primarily" Jews, is now Jews and Gentiles together in one body, through the promise made to Abraham.

Romans 11:17

In "among" them, not off in a separate body of people somewhere. He who loves God, keeps God's word because by that love they know that "it" is authoritative. There is a vivid portrait of the Covenant of God with Israel. This Israel is the Olive Tree from whom some Jewish people were illustrated as branches and broken off because of their blindness and hardness of heart. And the Gentiles are typed as branches of a wild Olvine tree that have been taken and grafted into the covenant with Israel among the Jews that were there, and this is One Tree, the Israel of God. So you can pretend that these two are separate, but God's word is the final authority, not Dispensational traditions.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: Philly Dawg on June 12, 2019, 12:23:33 PM
Is there an online book where you get these commentaries Philly?

All the commentaries come with the Swordsearcher Bible study Program. I just cut and pasted it.
Title: Re: What Is Love?
Post by: George on June 13, 2019, 04:15:05 AM
Philly, do you get a cut of the pie for advertising them?