The Mountain Retreat

Biblical Discussions => Apologetics => Topic started by: Chicago Bear on July 08, 2003, 09:35:18 AM

Title: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Chicago Bear on July 08, 2003, 09:35:18 AM

I was reading an article about tattoos that suggested it was fine for Christians to get them. I was wondering what you all thought of Christians getting Tattoos and body piercings. I don't think that it Christian at all, as God says don't make marks on your body. And the people I see doing it can hardly be described as God fearing or conscientious. But I am interested in hearing your views and why you feel this way. I ask because my daughter was asking about getting one, and I forbade it. Just want to know the biblical reasons.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: TashaJordan on March 17, 2005, 04:24:25 AM
Elsewhere on this site I found info about how body piercings are a sin and about how God tells us not to get them.
I would like to state my peice on this.
The sciptures always quoted on how its wrong are
Deuteronomy 14:1(Amp.): "You are the sons of the LORD your God: you shall not cut yourselves, or make any baldness on your foreheads for the dead."
and
Lev 19:28 "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord."

Now...... nowhere does god say make not any piercings in your body, he refers to cutting yourself for the dead and I know of noone that gets body piercings for the dead.
God is very specific and should he have meant including not for the dead he would have said it.

One scripture people love to leave out when discussing this is Genesis 24:22
Where God sends Abrahams servant to find a wife for ihis son and tells him that if she does certain things it is her acceptance. Now knowing that God sent this man to find Racheal and propose for Abrahams son and knowing that as a sign of her acceptance Racheal wore a gold nose ring and 2 gold braclets, you would have to realize that God has no problem with piercings....since it was God that has all this done in the first place.

Too many Christians take a scipture and twist it into what they want it to say like "cutting for the dead" being turned into body piercings which have nothing to do with any ritual for dead people.

Just because in some verses like 1 Corinthians 6:19-20,

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

and

Exodus 32:2-3: "And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron."

People like to use these as some sort of proof not to get pierced as well but nowhere in these do I see anything about give me your earings because they are a sin, they were an offering to God like lambs..... but lambs are not a sin now are they? Nor are grapes or anything else people were asked to give God in sacrafice.

Can we please stop taking scirptures and making them into what we decide we don't like therefor God must have said these things too.

Saying piercings is a sin is like saying so is rock and roll....and nowhere does God state that upbeat music is sinful and its also much like saying boys shouldnt have long hair when Solomon had long hair as told to by God himself and was punished by God for his sin by the cutting of his hair.

Keep Christianity honest not what we want to make it because of our own likes and dislikes.

Tasha
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Dave Taylor on March 17, 2005, 09:00:24 AM
Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of peircings Tasha?

Are they done out of modesty; or out of a desire to draw attention?

Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord; or are they done to bring glory and honor to ones self?


(Remember, I am asking the questions....hoping you can provide the answers....I don't have any piercings, so I can't understand why a Christian would want to have them....hoping you can explain)
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Glenda on March 17, 2005, 09:07:14 AM

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Tasha, In my humble opinion, the piercings are a way that the world is behaving, kinda like the tattoos.

1Cr 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

What do you find glorifying to God about piercing's?

Thank you in advance for your answer! ;)
Glenda
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Kenneth White on March 17, 2005, 09:38:49 AM
Tasha,
  I am of the opinion that even a fool can look at the proliferation of all sorts of piercings and Tatoos and understand the paganistic and Satanic influences of it. There is not one thing that is God glorifying about it. How any person calling themselves Christian could even believe that these are God glorifying actions is beyond my comprehension.

 1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

What part of this "fad" of body piercings and Tattoos are to the glory of the Lord? So the whole premise is doomed from the start, because you begin with a false presupposition that these things are biblical and God glorifying. If they are not, then they are sin. Correct?
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: TashaJordan on March 18, 2005, 03:38:15 AM
okay...well satanic? hmmmm then wy would racheal have taken a nose piercing to show her acceptance to marry abrahams son...which god sent like I said in the first email....Now asking me if its gloryfying God to get a piercing, well do you think earing are a sin? so you not dye your hair or streak it? because its all in the same boat guys. Can piercing glorify God, yes...yes they can you are adorning what God gave you. Do you get them to draw attention  to yourself? No, peircings are so common they don't draw attention to anyone. So lets take the Bible then and what it says to compare that to piercing..... well yes, people had nose peircing and stuff in Jesus day like Racheals nose peircing wich was obviously fine by God or he wouldnt have sent someone to get her to marry abrahams son and use a nose ring as her acceptance, but yes, they are very common now......but to say that its the way the world is turning is redicullous, in Jesus day men didnt wear pants, infact God instructed that men were to wear robes like Christ wore and that the only time it was even to resemble pants was when they tucked it into their belt to run. So then youd have to say that men wearing pants....was a turn of the worlds fashion and accentuates the fact you have legs and a bum.....so are you wearing pants to try to get attention? No we wear pants because they are the clothing accetable today, should you wander the streets in a robe trying to tell people how great Christ is they wouldnt liten at all because youd be awfully weird. God in refering to his love for isreal himself used piercing as something he gave people out of love the same with fine silks and such. If we didnt look good and "normal" who would listen to some strangly dressed person telling the about God. They would look at us and think hmmmm.....if I have to dress like that then NO THANKS! Looking like everyone else and not like some stagnant old person from the 50's helps people to listen like maybe Christianity isnt that boring after all and maybe being Christian doesn't make us boring.

Genesis 24:52-53 it says, And it came to pass, when Abraham's servant heard their words, that he worshiped the LORD, [bowing himself] to the earth. 53 Then the servant brought out jewelry of silver, jewelry of gold, and clothing, and gave [them] to Rebekah. He also gave precious things to her brother and to her mother. (NKJV)
 It wasn't a sin or a temptation for the servant to give Rebekah fine clothing or expensive jewelry. The servant was a godly man and Rebekah was a godly woman. And that's the point, although Rebekah did have those things, and obviously wore them at times, she is known for her godliness, not her wardrobe. God doesnt look at what people wear he looks in our hearts. I happen to think that purple contact lenses are pretty neat too and I really don't think God would get mad at them.

Ezekiel 16:10-13 God says, "I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk. 11 "I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck. 12 "And I put a jewel in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 "Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your clothing [was of] fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate [pastry of] fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. (NKJV)

God does not care if we dress nice, have nice things and adorn ourselves as long as what is in our heart is pure. When I go to heaven I dounbt God will be jusding me on what color my hair is.

To say that thingsare "Satanic" is indeed judging people my friend and judgement IS a sin.

Noone can judge who is just and who is not except for God himself and so far...looks like God has stated very clearly that piercings do not make you any less Christian. The only place anything says that it does is peoples own judgments, not Gods. They same goes for buying expensive cloths and trying to look your best.

So all in all can I glorify God with piercings...you bet I can. If you walked up to a troubled Teen on the street and started telling them how wonderful God is and you look like a dork(not saying you do lol but to kids most adults are boring and are dorks) and I walked up to him looking like I do with my piercings and told him about God, which do you think he would listen to? A dorky boring person or someone that looks like they aren't as boring as people think Christians have to be?


Tasha
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Joanne on March 18, 2005, 07:44:33 AM
okay...well satanic? hmmmm then wy would racheal have taken a nose piercing to show her acceptance to marry abrahams son.


Sounds like you are predetermined to rationalize degrading the human body by various piercings. Where is this scripture located that you keep talking about?


Quote
Now asking me if its gloryfying God to get a piercing, well do you think earing are a sin?


What does the Bible say about wearing ear rings and plaiting hair? You have your answer. Again, more rationalizations. You know, I sing, but I don't sing perverse songs or songs with explicit lyrics. You wouldn't say all singing is evil because someone sang a bad song would you? You should know the difference shouldn't you?

 2 Cor. 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

We are to be a separate people as others have already told you. Not the same as everyone else.


Quote
So all in all can I glorify God with piercings...you bet I can. If you walked up to a troubled Teen on the street and started telling them how wonderful God is and you look like a dork(not saying you do lol but to kids most adults are boring and are dorks) and I walked up to him looking like I do with my piercings and told him about God, which do you think he would listen to? A dorky boring person or someone that looks like they aren't as boring as people think Christians have to be?

He would listen to neither, because salvation is not by looks. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But seeing how you don't yet understand the working of salvation, I can understand how you don't understand that no one comes to Christ by finding someone's looks agreeable. You need to go back and start from the beginning. Learn about Christ first, then you can teach doctrine.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: TashaJordan on March 18, 2005, 08:55:21 AM
I gave the scipture I am talking about,

 Genesis 24:22 When the camels had finished drinking, the man took out a gold nose ring weighing a beka [a] and two gold bracelets weighing ten shekels. 23 Then he asked, "Whose daughter are you? Please tell me, is there room in your father's house for us to spend the night?"

If you read before and after as well this is in refernce to racheal accepting a proposal of marriage to abrahams son, god had told the servant who went to propose for him that answer she would give if she accepted, in acceptance she wore the niose ring and bracletes.

as well if you read this next passage about God talking about his love for his people of isreal what does he mention he gives them? As showing him he loves them as if they were his bride?.... A nose ring. Here is that passage.

Ezekiel 16:10-13 God says, "I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk. 11 "I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck. 12 "And I put a jewel in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 "Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your clothing [was of] fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate [pastry of] fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. (NKJV)

if you read my whole post you would have seen these instead of reading part of it, making up your mind and closing your eyes to the rest.

I am not here to predermine rationalizing anythng I am here to show people that what they have to say about God and piercings is wrong, and hopefully open some eyes. To stop misinformation of someones hatred of something being told as if it were Gods word.
As Christians we should be always studying and learning and opening our hearts not closemindedly making our own rules and saying they are Gods. When someone first told you eatting pork is against God's will did you decide you liked it and would therefor discredit anyone telling you he says otherwise? No, most people listen and go read it for themselves, realize he did indeed say it and then change their thoughts about it.. Why is piercing such a hard thing for people to do the same with?

You quote me corinthians yet who did Christ himself put in his company and shame the disciples for discriminating against? Hookers and tax collectors, thats who, Christ sat with them, talked with them, loved them. I will not refuse to talk with people that are not Christian, noone needs to convert a Christian and you cant convert a non-Christian by never having anything to do with them.

and i am not teaching droctrine here, I am having a discusision on a supposedly Christian board where I have had nothing but non-Christain judgemental responses and by a bunch or rudel people that will be judged as they have judged. I do not want to be part of this board anymore all I have seen is hypocritical people claiming to be so pure and meanwhile doing nothing but degrading others opinions and refusing to maybe learn something. Nor did I ever say that someones look convert someone, however they have alot to do with getting young teens and troubled people to even actually listen past the first 2 seconds to what you have to say.
We are to be seperate people yes, but you are the same as everyone else in wearing pants and you probably own a nice car not a modest falling apart one, and you probably own a nice house not a falling apart shack to be modest in things you own. You cannot apply the rule to one thing and not anotherI  am not a young person, actually I have 4 children and even I don't want to talk to any of you, much less would a teenager who already thinks Christians are evil and have nothing good to say, and definately arent even treating their own with Gods love so probably not anyone else.  Have fun and God bless I am removing myself from the board.

Tasha

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Joanne on March 18, 2005, 10:17:43 AM
I don't want to talk to any of you, much less would a teenager who already thinks Christians are evil and have nothing good to say, and definately arent even treating their own with Gods love so probably not anyone else.  Have fun and God bless I am removing myself from the board.

Tasha

More personal experiences. Well, I guess you show yourself afraid, refusing to even consider scriptures given you, choosing instead to run and hide like so many others. I can't say I'll miss you, but I really wish you would pick up a bible sometime and read more than superficially. You might just learn that people don't save, God does.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: kirindor on April 01, 2005, 01:47:27 AM
Hi All,

I have been lurking about for a while, and this thread fascinated me. Tasha posed a well reasoned question, showed she has done her homework by the breadth of Scripture that she cited, and the first response was an ad hominem argument against her. Here's the quote of the reply, "Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of peircings Tasha? Are they done out of modesty; or out of a desire to draw attention? Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord; or are they done to bring glory and honor to ones self? (Remember, I am asking the questions....hoping you can provide the answers....I don't have any piercings, so I can't understand why a Christian would want to have them....hoping you can explain)"

There isn't even the faintest attempt to speak to her question, but "remember, I am the [one] asking the questions" is very condescending.

Glenda followed up with "Tasha, In my humble opinion, the piercings are a way that the world is behaving, kinda like the tattoos." So? What does this have to do with Tasha's question that has been asked? Just because the world does something, doesn't make in necessarily a sin.

Ken follows up with a spiritual "trump card" - "I am of the opinion that even a fool can look at the proliferation of all sorts of piercings and Tatoos and understand the Satanic influences of it. There is not one thing that is God glorifying about it. How any person calling themselves christian could even believe that these are God glorifying actions is beyond my comprehension." How can you respond to a statement like this? If I say anything, I am on Satan's side to Ken. Talk about a thread killer!

By the way Ken poses the question once again about how can a piercing be glorifying to God. It echoes a common theme in the responses to Tasha.

At this point Tasha responds to the arguments presented. She demonstrates that there have been cultural changes. Tasha commits a common error of making judgement a sin - "indeed judging people my friend and judgement IS a sin."

Finally, we come to the last post.

Joanne writes, "Sounds like you are predetermined to rationalize degrading the human body by various piercings. Where is this scripture you keep talking about?" and

"He would listen to neither, because salvation is not by looks. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But seeing how you don't yet understand the working of salvation, I can understand how you don't understand that no one comes to Christ by finding someone's looks agreeable. You need to go back and start from the beginning. Learn about Christ first, then you can teach doctrine."

Yet once again Tasha responds with her verses and her questions only to be attacked again, More personal experiences.

With this biting personal attack the thread ends so far, and no one has even tried to give an honest, well-reasoned response to Tasha's question. I could make some broad sweeping remarks here, but that would be helpful; however, I do suggest that you study this thread closely and evaluate it to determine if this question and thread was handled coorectly.

Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on April 01, 2005, 09:27:08 AM
Hi All,

I have been lurking about for a while, and this thread fascinated me. Tasha posed a well reasoned question, showed she has done her homework by the breadth of Scripture that she cited, and the first response was an ad hominem argument against her. Here's the quote of the reply, "Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of peircings Tasha? Are they done out of modesty; or out of a desire to draw attention? Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord; or are they done to bring glory and honor to ones self? (Remember, I am asking the questions....hoping you can provide the answers....I don't have any piercings, so I can't understand why a Christian would want to have them....hoping you can explain)"

There isn't even the faintest attempt to speak to her question, but "remember, I am the [one] asking the questions" is very condescending.

Just a suggestion.


It's in the eye of the beholder. For example, I think your post is very condescending, but I'm pretty sure you don't. Here's a suggestion, if you want to talk about the pros and cons of body piercings, then fine. Let's talk. But don't talk about other people's personalities or how they respond or about these alleged attacks. It's against the rules here. The comment, "Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of piercings" is not an attack. Not in the least. It's a very good question addressing "should Christians get Tattoos and body piercings?"

If you want to have body piercings and believe it is biblically justifiable, fine. Justify it. But don't give us this backhand across the mouth lesson in etiquette, we've heard it all before. What is the scriptural backing for tattoos and body piercings? There are none, correct?

Also, for your information, the intent and the purpose of piercings and tattoos "is" relevant to any discussion of this issue.

Can you tell us what is the intent and the purpose of belly piercings, nose rings and Tattoos for Christians? Just a question. Are they done out of Godly modesty, or out of a desire to draw attention? Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord, or are they done to bring glory and honor to one's self? But if you're going to reply that I'm attacking you, avoiding the argument or the like, then don't even bother to reply. We've all been bored by these types of replies "in place of biblical justification." But if you have something to say, or maybe even perhaps answer the question, then maybe we can have a constructive dialogue rather than just vainly throwing charges back and forth.

Show us what is "the intent and purpose" for this modern day proliferation of gaudy tattoos. But we're not going to argue with you about someone else.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Glenda on April 01, 2005, 09:32:09 AM
Sir,
  I did post scripture before the imho.
 
Quote
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Quote

The world seems to think that the piercings and the tattoo's and the near naked women are an alternative way to behave. The bible says dont be like them. So maybe I am packaging the piercing in with tattoos and near nakedness ect...LOOK around man. Where you see one you generally see the others.
I'm not attacking you personally , but I cant stand it when people step up and try to smooth the waters, between the world and God. There is NO smoothing.
  For the record Mr. kirdindor, I went to your fine website and  I see the pictures of you and your fine children, you have a lovely family. I'm wondering, do your children have piercings, they dont look like it. And what would be your reaction if they did get piercings?
  I think your being the devils advocate, but I would truly like to hear your"real" opinion. I may have handled this question wrong, but maybe you can show me how I should've handled it. Take a picture of the Ozzy Osborne family and set it beside the picture of your family  :o, do you see a difference? Call it disernment, call it what you will...there is a difference. You know it and I know it.
In HIS grace, and for HIS glory,
Glenda
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on April 01, 2005, 09:42:27 AM
We must understand that we are children of God.  We have been brought with a price (the blood of Christ).  We should set our minds on heavenly things not the temporal, not things of this world which will shortly pass away.  We should put away this foolishness concerning body piercings.  We should be spending the time strenghting one another with the Holy Word of God.
                                                                       Dan

Dan, your one paragraph is worth a thousand words.

 Job 15:2 Should a wise man utter vain knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind?
 3 Should he reason with unprofitable talk? or with speeches wherewith he can do no good?

I feel that for any Christian to attempt to justify what is going on in the world today concerning this aberration and the growing trend of body piercings, disfiguring and marking up the body with tattoos is almost a sign of where the church is today. People can justify anything with fair speeches, but should we be deceived by their fair words to the point that we abandon common sense?

God bless people who can see past all the justifications and excuses and recognize what is of God and what is not of God.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: kirindor on April 01, 2005, 07:16:32 PM
Tasha,

While the whole of Scripture is the inspired Word of God, it is not all normative for Christian Living. Genesis is filled with cultural examples that are in Scripture, but that we do not want to emulate. Sarah gives Hagar to Abraham to have children with, Rachel stole Laban's household gods, and Rebekah had a pierced nose. Each of these represents the interplay of faith and culture, and in each of these faith came out on the short end.

The piercing of Rebekah should be especially revolting to Christians with the full Scriptural revelation, because, culturally, piercing was indicative of slavery. So we have Isaac, recieving a wife who is his slave. This is far from the norm that the New Testament has given us. "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the Church." Hosea love for Gomer is also a wonderful example of Biblical love of the husband for the wife.

Because of these cultural issues, I do not believe that it is appropriate to use this verse to defend body piercings.

I hope that answers your question, if not send me an e-mail and I will respond off list.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: kirindor on April 01, 2005, 07:20:44 PM
Hi All,

The point of my first post was merely to point out that a lot of words had been shed without answering the point of the original post. I am sorry to have so offended; however, so of you would do well to study some of the principles of debate. This would lend clarity to your expression and help you to better defend your views. Which after all is the point of apologetic.

God Bless,
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: DrPatti on April 01, 2005, 08:27:12 PM
This conversation reminds me as an SDA.  They quoted Paul that we should not adorn ourselves with gold or silver or precious stones and refused to baptize anyone who wore jewelry--any kind of jewelry--even a wedding ring.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: GoldRush on April 01, 2005, 09:40:10 PM
This conversation reminds me . . .

This conversation seems unimportant and forced.   >:(

For those who are anti-piercings, let me ask you this:
Will I lose my salvation because my ears are pierced?
If not, then how is ear-piercing any different from nose-piercing or belly-button piercing?
Will my daughter lose hers because she got a small tattoo over her scar where they did a spinal tap on her?

If so, then you are preaching legalism.
If not, then you are straining at gnats, and our time could be much better spent preaching the Gospel and extolling the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If this is your true mindset, why are you centered upon such subjects and "trolling" such suggestions, instead of extolling and magnifying the Gospel message yourself?

(Our time on earth is short here, you know, and should be better spent, IOHO.)



J&R
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: GoldRush on April 02, 2005, 12:08:15 AM
Want fellowship?

Let's center our thoughts upon the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. . ."

Revelation 1:7a† (cp. Zechariah 12:10-14)

What do you make of the violation and disfigurment done to the flesh of Jesus?

J&R





Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on April 02, 2005, 03:31:51 AM
This conversation reminds me as an SDA.  They quoted Paul that we should not adorn ourselves with gold or silver or precious stones and refused to baptize anyone who wore jewelry--any kind of jewelry--even a wedding ring.

This conversation has nothing to do with legalism. It has to do with what the bible says about the body of a Christian and of adorning ourselves. It has to do with obedience and what would not bring glory to God. You have every right to believe in lip and nose rings and tattoos. But I also have every right to say I believe it is unbiblical and ask questions without being called a legalist for doing so.

--Cut and Paste for reiteration --

 For your information, the intent and the purpose of piercings is relevant to any discussion of this issue. By the way, can you tell me what is the intent and the purpose of belly piercings, Lip piercings, nose rings and Tattoos for Christians? Just a question. Are they done out of modesty, or out of a desire to draw attention? Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord, or are they done to bring glory and honor to one's self? But if you're going to reply that I'm attacking you, avoiding the argument or the like, then don't even bother to reply. We've all been bored by these types of replies "in place of biblical justification" many times before. But if you have something to say, or maybe even perhaps answer the question, then maybe we can have a constructive dialogue rather than just vainly throwing charges back and forth.

--Still stands --
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: abbiegirl on November 08, 2006, 08:56:39 AM
I gave the scipture I am talking about,

 Genesis 24:22 When the camels had finished drinking, the man took out a gold nose ring weighing a beka [a] and two gold bracelets weighing ten shekels. 23 Then he asked, "Whose daughter are you? Please tell me, is there room in your father's house for us to spend the night?"

If you read before and after as well this is in refernce to racheal accepting a proposal of marriage to abrahams son, god had told the servant who went to propose for him that answer she would give if she accepted, in acceptance she wore the niose ring and bracletes.

as well if you read this next passage about God talking about his love for his people of isreal what does he mention he gives them? As showing him he loves them as if they were his bride?.... A nose ring. Here is that passage.

Ezekiel 16:10-13 God says, "I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk. 11 "I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck. 12 "And I put a jewel in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head. 13 "Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your clothing [was of] fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate [pastry of] fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. (NKJV)

if you read my whole post you would have seen these instead of reading part of it, making up your mind and closing your eyes to the rest.

I am not here to predermine rationalizing anythng I am here to show people that what they have to say about God and piercings is wrong, and hopefully open some eyes. To stop misinformation of someones hatred of something being told as if it were Gods word.
As Christians we should be always studying and learning and opening our hearts not closemindedly making our own rules and saying they are Gods. When someone first told you eatting pork is against God's will did you decide you liked it and would therefor discredit anyone telling you he says otherwise? No, most people listen and go read it for themselves, realize he did indeed say it and then change their thoughts about it.. Why is piercing such a hard thing for people to do the same with?

You quote me corinthians yet who did Christ himself put in his company and shame the disciples for discriminating against? Hookers and tax collectors, thats who, Christ sat with them, talked with them, loved them. I will not refuse to talk with people that are not Christian, noone needs to convert a Christian and you cant convert a non-Christian by never having anything to do with them.

and i am not teaching droctrine here, I am having a discusision on a supposedly Christian board where I have had nothing but non-Christain judgemental responses and by a bunch or rudel people that will be judged as they have judged. I do not want to be part of this board anymore all I have seen is hypocritical people claiming to be so pure and meanwhile doing nothing but degrading others opinions and refusing to maybe learn something. Nor did I ever say that someones look convert someone, however they have alot to do with getting young teens and troubled people to even actually listen past the first 2 seconds to what you have to say.
We are to be seperate people yes, but you are the same as everyone else in wearing pants and you probably own a nice car not a modest falling apart one, and you probably own a nice house not a falling apart shack to be modest in things you own. You cannot apply the rule to one thing and not anotherI  am not a young person, actually I have 4 children and even I don't want to talk to any of you, much less would a teenager who already thinks Christians are evil and have nothing good to say, and definately arent even treating their own with Gods love so probably not anyone else.  Have fun and God bless I am removing myself from the board.

Tasha



Wow- how really sad is this? This person chose to leave here because she felt judged and unloved by people who are supposed to be the light in the darkness - that is the love of God shines through their lives.  I heard from another person while reading through past postings and trying to learn that she too felt judged and she had come here for fellowship. You know they say the Army of God (the Church) is the only army who shoots its own - maybe all too true. I do not have tatoos or body piercings - well I do have pierced ears - does that count?  But if the love which Christ has shown to me cannot overcome the appearance of one who has such things who am I? What does I Cor 13 say about such people? Their speech is as sounding gongs and clanging cymbols - just a bunch of noise which cannot be heard over their judgemental attitudes. I must admit that this does not really feel like a warm and welcoming online Christian board but a lot like so many churches I have been in. We are supposed to be better than that. If we disagree on things thats normal - even Paul and Timothy could not agree and had to separate for the sake of the Gospel and their writings were included in the Canon of Scripture so I guess disagreement is not to be unexpected in God's eyes - he has made us all individual. How boring the world would be if we were all cookie-cutter Christians and acted like robots and clones. No - Scripture is very clear on the differences in people and their individual giftings. From things I have shared here on this board I have heard that I might be worshipping a "false" God, not really a true Christian, etc... just because I dont talk the same talk as what you here all expect? Well Jesus didnt either and he ended up being crucified for it so I am not afraid of mere mortals who feel holy and superior, because He wasnt and He lives within me for the past 45 years and has brought me through incredible testings of my faith but I am not turning away because of a group of people who "think" in their own ways and have some different ways of expressing or interpreting. The Body is not about a group of elitist people who have been "chosen" - its about people who share in the wonderful gift of salvation through Jesus Christ by the grace of God and nothing else. We are the Body of Christ. Lets not be afraid to love and embrace our differences - the world is watching and they will know we are Christians by our love. We can all improve in this area everyday.

                                                                                                                        Abbiegirl
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Penne on November 08, 2006, 10:59:19 AM
Matthew 25:35-36
35 "For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:  I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 
36  Naked, and ye clothed me:  I was sick, and ye visited me:  I was in prison, and ye came unto me."

This is true love that christians should have.

Matthew 25:41-46
41"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42  For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it or not to one of the least of these, ye did it not for me.
46  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into eternal life."

What type of love we have is important.  It isn't "love" to just pat everyone on the back when they present a doctrine that is not from the Bible and say,  "Don't worry about it, God will explain one day, right now let's just love eachother because time is too short to ruffle feathers."

When God shows me truth about His Word this is when I rejoice and feel love and then I want to share it. 



Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Tony Warren on November 09, 2006, 11:49:51 AM
>>>
Wow- how really sad is this? This person chose to leave here because she felt judged and unloved by people who are supposed to be the light in the darkness - that is the love of God shines through their lives.
<<<

..and indeed, many others may choose to leave as well. That's because we have differing views and definitions on what is gracious, loving and compassionate. Personally, I'm not as concerned about people "choosing to leave" as I am about people never hearing the truth in the first place because some Christian was afraid to offend their worldly sensibilities. Sure, Tattooing has become as normal today as buying a pair of sox, but that doesn't mean Christians have to change and conform to the world to accommodate these views. I'm sure someone being the sundoulos here is a lot different than what most Christians have grown to expect. But the condition of the heart is not illustrated in vain platitudes of sympathy for those who have grown close to the world or who are unrepentant. It is illustrated in the joy of seeing someone finally look at themselves honestly and come to truth.

Proverbs 17:2-3

The Lord tries or tests the hearts. So you need have no fear that God missed an opportunity here to enlighten someone. If these Christian people here (like myself) are the judgmental Scribes and Pharisees of our day that you think we are, we will be judged by God's word. For a tree is known by its fruits.

Hebrews 4:12-13

You know, it's so easy to say someone is judgmental when they speak bluntly, is not perfect in their presentation, or they disagree strongly. One could even say that your post was judgmental. It takes no effort to respond like that. But judgment won't be by our words saying such things as Predestination, Sovereignty, the sin of conforming to the world, or our imperfect rebuke of erroneous ideas.  What form of heart ours is, is judged by God, not by man. What we (as God's people) are to judge is what is right and wrong. And that's not legalism, that's Christian responsibility. I would caution to please endeavor to understand the difference.


Quote
>>>
You know they say the Army of God (the Church) is the only army who shoots its own - maybe all too true.
<<<

An army indeed, but for which army and what side most "professing" Christians are actually fighting for, is debatable. Whether fighting with and following the Horseman on the white steed who is going forth conquering and to conquer, or for all intents and purposes fighting against him. That is the "real" question.

Revelation 9:15-16

Personally, I'd say the army of God isn't doing enough shooting or sword waving, but is doing far too much consorting. For the word of God "is" a sword, and it will cut. It is inevitable. I don't consider pandering to faithless, unholy worldly customs and beliefs that are contrary to the tenants of scripture, to be either Christ-like or a demonstration of love. Nor do I consider the faithful going forth with the sword of the spirit, as Christians shooting their own.

 ...but hey, I'm in the minority, that's just me.

I don't believe that the church today is too judgmental, too strong, or too strict. In fact, I would say it is just the opposite. But you see, that is a vivid illustration of the difference between the two types of Christians within the church. The Kings "of" the earth and the kings who dwell on the earth. Those that are all about self, comfort, compromise, humanistic compassion, and feelings of love, contrasted with those who understand what selflessness is, and what true comfort is, what no compromise is, what true compassion is, and what true agape/charity requires. Love of God is not about making friends by unrighteous inclusion or compromise with the world, it's about love of truth to our neighbors. Having a "real" love for the truth as opposed to humanistic sentimentality.  And there is really no other way for a true Christian to speak the truth, but in Agape/Charity. Because the truth is love. That there are those in the church who refuse to receive it in the way it is meant is not really odd, it's to be expected. For all that shimmers is not gold, and all that is painful is not meant to their hurt. It's like the fable of the bird and the cowpie.  Likewise, all that claim Christ as their Saviour are not Christians, and all that pine for love, are not those with love. For love is as God defines it, not the world.

2nd Thessalonians 2:9-10

If we love the truth, we are led of God not to be offended by it, even though we are pricked by it. By the same token, if we won't receive truth, then clearly we do not really Love Truth do we?

In 2nd Thessalonians, these aren't the people of the world refusing to receive the truth because it wasn't given in love, these are the people of the church deceived by false teachers so that they can't recognize the truth anymore. And God tells us unambiguously why they are deceived in the Holy Temple. It is "because" they just simply would not "in love" receive the truth that was spoken to them. Not that it was spoken perfectly, or without love, but that "THEY" didn't love what truth was spoken. And so they would not receive it. That's what people have so twisted about the church, the truth and love. Godís word does need to be spoken perfectly (no one is perfect/i]), it has to be spoken in God's definition of love. i.e., charitably, good-natured, in encouragement to obedience, which so many today call graceless and judgmental. How backward we have become.

Deuteronomy 30:20

Love is an integral part of our obedience, not something that is applied to it.

1st John 5:3

How would this (God's definition of love) match up with the modern church's definition of Love? I dare say they'd probably call it pharisaical and legalistic if anyone were to bear faithful witness to it.


Quote
>>>
 What does I Cor 13 say about such people? Their speech is as sounding gongs and clanging cymbols - just a bunch of noise which cannot be heard over their judgemental attitudes.
<<<

True. But 1st Corinthians isn't talking about the kind of love the world speaks of, but [agape] love. That is to say, true charitable love wherein we desire for them the same salvation that we have ourselves have received. Love made perfect in God's grace wherein we know, "there but by the grace of God go I." So it's not what 1st Corinthians 13 says about love that is at issue, but what LOVE actually means in God's defining of it. Not what Dr. Phil says love is, but what God says it is. Comparing scripture with scripture. That is what we are in disagreement about. Who are we loving if we teach Christians that worldliness, pride, eschewing correction and rebuke, and walking in darkness is winked at by God? ....that is loving ourselves, not agape love. It's what God calls vanity! Who do we love if we preach that there should be no judgments in the church and we all can just do our own things and believe in going our own personal way? What love is there in a lack of judgment? Is that God's love, or man's love?

Isaiah 59:8-10

Is it love to let a man grope around blindly in the darkness encouraging him to walk wherever he wants because God is love? Is it love when we won't judge his being in darkness and let him remain unaware and stumble? Or is it true love to take our candle and show him the way wherein he will not stumble and fall? That's the question at issue here today. When God says there in that verse, "there is no judgment in their goings," He is specifically talking about people who do not discern the right from the wrong. People who do not "rightly divide or judge the word of truth." People who think all opinions and beliefs are grace covered and surmise that judgments should never be made against wrong beliefs. That's not Christian, that is decidedly unchristian. Judgments are made all the time and must be made by the righteous. Judge if Murder is wrong, or if Lying wrong, or if Free will is wrong, or filling our bodies with Tattoos or in smoking or in sex before marriage. Yes, judgments should be made by the Christian, and those who claim we shouldn't, don't really understand love nor Christianity at all. When we became a new creature in Christ we were given judgment (Revelation 20) and it changed our lives. When Christ said judge not, He most certainly was not talking about sin, but about other people's salvation.


Quote
>>>
...he has made us all individual. How boring the world would be if we were all cookie-cutter Christians and acted like robots and clones.
<<<

I wonder what does that comment imply? That Christians can't really come to any absolute truth and so should just accept any doctrine other professed Christians hold as mere "differences of opinion?" I hope not. If so, that is an incorrect conclusion. We are to judge what is a right belief and what is an unbiblical belief. And we are to say so. Moreover, when our beliefs are illustrated from scripture to be unbiblical, we should correct them. ...if we won't, then what right have we to profess love of God and any desire to do "His Will?"


Quote
>>>
 No - Scripture is very clear on the differences in people and their individual giftings.
<<<

Individual gifts, not doctrines. Again, that people are different is not the issue.  I really didn't create this forum to be another cookie cutter place where everyone would feel comfortable saying every God awful and unbiblical thing. Nor was it created for Christians to come and justify themselves, or where everyone could feel good about themselves. There are lots of forums around the Net that will accommodate anyone if that's what they seek. But this forum is for people to discuss beliefs and views from the basis of scripture, and determine if they are accurate and in agreement with those scriptures. Of course, not a lot of Christians like this system because it steps on some toes and exposes beliefs to the scrutiny of God's word. ..and I understand that. Everyone is not going to like it here. That's a "GIVEN!" Are we perfect? Of course not.


Quote
>>>
The Body is not about a group of elitist people who have been "chosen" - its about people who share in the wonderful gift of salvation through Jesus Christ by the grace of God and nothing else.
<<<

If your definition of elite is a "Special or Select" Group (chosen) as the dictionary defines it, then you are wrong again. The Body is about the "elect" people who have been chosen by God. That's not someone's opinion as so many like to believe, that's God plainly speaking. That's the truth of God that the vast majority of professed Christians just can't bear to listen to because it offends their self-esteem. Teachings about the elect, and Predestination, and living in a humbe God glorifying way (without Tattooing), is to the glory of God and is welcomed to be spoken here.

Your quote above is wrong because the elect do share in the wonderful gift of salvation through Jesus Christ by the grace of God alone. Indeed, it's an integral part of the very foundation of our belief. By Grace Alone! What you may not understand is that without being Chosen, without Election, without Predestination, without Grace Alone, there is no gift of salvation. There is only work.


Quote
>>>
We are the Body of Christ. Lets not be afraid to love and embrace our differences..
<<<

Being afraid has nothing to do with the true Christian not embracing diverse pagan and worldly philosophies like tattooing and morose body piercings that war with God's word of separation from the world's customs. Unless that fear is reverential "fear of God." We would rather embrace truth, than the rationalization of body disfigurement in the name of love. We embrace separation, not conformity to the world. We embrace God's agape love, not worldly affections.

Colossians 3:1-2

How unpalatable is that? Spiritual adornments from heaven or physical ones of the world?

 
Quote
>>>
..the world is watching and they will know we are Christians by our love. We can all improve in this area everyday.
<<<

Yes, we can all improve in the area of love. But the world has nothing but contempt for the church, and except God draw one of them, they will not believe one single word of God's love or scripture. So if the world is watching, it is for the opportunity to mock and laugh. But one who is watching the church unto judgment is God. And I can tell you without fear of contradiction, He doesn't like what He is seeing. Will the Christian know they have love by acting so much like the world no one can tell us apart? Because it seems to me that the more Christians act, dress, think and speak like the world, the more Christians there are in the church who say that truth is unloving and judgmental. And the more I hear that if that's the God of the Bible, they want no part of Him, the more I see the church declining. The question then is, what God are they worshipping?

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: abbiegirl on November 09, 2006, 04:26:30 PM
Mr Warren,

    Thank you for your reply/critique of my posting. I do now understand that this is your site and therefore your forum; however, in order to have a healthy discussion and debate there will certainly be different ideas and interpretations among people engaging in that discussion. Is that hard for you to accept? Some of what I have read on this forum I heartily agree with and other things I could not disagree with more ..........that is the nature of the beast so to say when there is any open dialogue. This has never been about body piercings or tatoos which is so ironic for me seeing as where this dialogue has taken place. (Being the wimp that I am I could never even imagine having a tatoo done  :o )   I will say that I have noticed a very biased slant to the opinions herein expressed by people. By that I mean that if someone disagrees with the emphasis on Reformed theology they are immediately "corrected"  to the Reformed way of thinking. I must say I have never seen this level of paranoia on a forum before. Perhaps it has been an error on my own part because coming here I assumed, obviously falsely, that this was a place to fellowship with other Christians and to learn from each other and exchange ideas in a healthy loving environment. That has not been my experience to date but I have no hard feelings about this and I may drop in from time to time to say hello. For now I will stay with people who can love and share in an environment of respectful dialogue.  Always remember the freedoms we enjoy in this country that allow for this forum to even exist but so much greater than that, the freedoms we have in Christ Jesus who came to die for us so that we might be redeemed from our depraved state before God. May I also add that Heaven will be a place of complete diversity with one common thread - our eternal worship of the Lamb who was slain for our salvation.

                                                                                                       Abbiegirl
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on November 09, 2006, 05:42:03 PM
Mr Warren,
Perhaps it has been an error on my own part because coming here I assumed, obviously falsely, that this was a place to fellowship with other Christians and to learn from each other and exchange ideas in a healthy loving environment. That has not been my experience to date but I have no hard feelings about this and I may drop in from time to time to say hello. For now I will stay with people who can love and share in an environment of respectful dialogue. 


                                                                                                       Abbiegirl


Obviously, like most free willers, you didn't hear a single solitary word that Tony said. Not a word! As for myself, I will stay with people who can receive truth and share in an environment of Biblical dialogue in true love. Thank you very much!  ::)
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: abbiegirl on November 09, 2006, 09:01:47 PM
 ??? So what makes you think I did not hear a word that Mr Warren said? I just don't agree and that is my choice I do believe. But thank you for the new label - "fee-willer" whatever that means! Its a new one on me but whatever...  Do I exercise my own free will? Well of course and so do you. Did you choose to leave a posting for me? Yes  And did I leave one for you?  Yes Well guess what? Those choices were made by our own individual free wills. Is that a news flash to you? Its just common sense to me.

                                                                                             Abbiegirl
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: midas on November 09, 2006, 11:06:27 PM
Quote
By that I mean that if someone disagrees with the emphasis on Reformed theology

If someone disagrees on what the bible says (not reformed theology) Comparing scriputre with scripture

Quote
they are immediately "corrected"  to the Reformed way of thinking

To Gods way of thinking only, what the bible says - not reformed, not Lutheran, not Calvin, not Catholic and so  on - No denomination, no great theologian or churches viewpoints are considered when interrupting the scriptures of God

Quote
I must say I have never seen this level of paranoia on a forum before

What does paranoia mean - unrealistic suspicion and mistrust of others, excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others

Sorry, this is not true - passionate would be more accurate - expressing intense feeling - and rightfully so if someone says "thus says the Lord when the Lord did not say it" - especially when you don't use scripture to back up what you are saying

 
Quote
because coming here I assumed, obviously falsely, that this was a place to fellowship with other Christians and to learn from each other and exchange ideas in a healthy loving environment.

You have posted 12 times - and only 1 listed any kind of scripture to back up what you are saying - this forum is for bible/scripture discussions and it is hard to take the word of anyone who comes here and just talks and says what God is saying or means without using some sort of scripture to back it up

When you want to learn what God truly says, the meaning of a scripture, a discussion on a doctrine, this is the best place in the world to be, you can ask, discuss and learn - If you want basic Christian chat, or discussion without using scriptures, other forum usually work best -

I don't think there is anything wrong with the people on this site or the sites purpose at all - I just think you went to a book store looking to buy a watch - you still went to a retail store, but the wrong store for what you wanted to buy

2 Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of one's own interpretation.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on November 10, 2006, 09:08:09 AM
So what makes you think I did not hear a word that Mr Warren said?

Well the first clue is that you still have your judgmental attitude, while pointing the finger at others for being judgmental against unbiblical doctrines. And maybe the second clue was that he gave a biblical definition of true christian concern and love, and you replied by again talking about feelings, and going back to find a forum where there are people who can love. Yeah, I think you did not hear a word Mr. Warren said.


Quote
Do I exercise my own free will? Well of course and so do you. Did you choose to leave a posting for me? Yes  And did I leave one for you?  Yes Well guess what? Those choices were made by our own individual free wills. Is that a news flash to you? Its just common sense to me.

Maybe free will is common sense. But the truth of God's sovereign will is uncommon. I don't want to take this thread off topic anymore than you already have, because it's supposed to be about tattoos and body piercings. But it seems that you want someone to make you feel good by saying that your views and opinions have merit. Tony can't do that, and I don't blame him. Because he has integrity. Something that is very much lacking these days. Predestination is not Tony's opinion or mine, it's the word of God. So it's not subject to being wrong. You seem to want someone to agree that you've got free will, and he's just not going to do that to you. He's going to tell you point blank that this belief is not true. This belief is a lie of the Devil. I'm sure you probably don't like that, but what else can he say? That it has merit? He doesn't say this doctrinre is untrue because he doesn't like other opinions, he says it because the doctrine of free will is not the truth. And he is not like other Ministers who will smooze you with good feelings about your doctrine or put pretty flowers on them. I happen to agree with that philosophy. But many here do not, so you probably have a lot of sympathetic people here who agree with you about what is loving debate. I'd call it useless debate.

Now back to the thread, "should Christians have tattoos and Body Piercings".

PS, You said you didn't agree. What part of the witness of the word did you not agree with. 2nd John 1:6 or Colossians 3:1-2? Or maybe one of the other scriptures concerning Predestination or the working of God's will.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: midas on November 10, 2006, 09:36:47 PM
What does God say about Body Piercings and or Tattoos

Leviticus 19:28  You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tatoo any marks upon you: I am the LORD
Even though believers today are not under the Old Testament law the fact that there was a command against tattoos should cause us to question.

1 Corinthians 10:31  Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Can we ask God to bless and use these particular activities for His own good purposes and glory?

1 Timothy 2:9  In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with decency and propriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
The essential meaning of modesty is not drawing attention to yourself - Tattoos and body piercings are not modest

1 Corinthians 6:19-20  What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have of God, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
If our bodies belong to God, we should make sure we have His clear "permission" before we "mark it up" with tattoos or body piercings.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Pamela on November 10, 2006, 11:01:40 PM
What does God say about Body Piercings and or Tattoos


1 Corinthians 10:31  Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Can we ask God to bless and use these particular activities for His own good purposes and glory?



You know, this verse above says it all, amen?  Whatever we do, we "should" be doing to give glory to God.  I don't think tattoos, piercings and many other "faddy" things are giving glory to God.  A true believer should not be seeking ways to justify their "worldly" lusts.  Same thing with dancing.  They say that the Bible talks about dancing, so we can dance too.  Well, if we dance the way I have seen some people dance, then WHERE is the glory in that?  Sheeeesh.

God  bless,
Pam
 
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Pamela on November 10, 2006, 11:11:55 PM


1 John 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Just wanted to add two more verses.  Are the commandments of God supposed to be "grievious" to a true believer?  Aren't we supposed to desire the things of God?  Then why would a true believer want to do things that would NOT give Him glory?  Do we have one foot in the world, and another in the kingdom?

Pam
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: midas on November 11, 2006, 12:16:39 AM

Do we have one foot in the world, and another in the kingdom?


Yes, many Christians? by day drive their sports cars, a body piercing or two, a tattoo here and there, suggestive clothing, fashion hairstyles all for the love of the world - By night they chat on Christian forums talking about the love of God, helping the poor and embracing differences in biblical interpretations  ... But that's OK because everyone sins, God is love, and forgives us when we pray ...

Revelation 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

You can't have it both ways ... Not even with a loving God ...

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Kira on November 11, 2006, 10:29:49 AM
Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of peircings Tasha?

Are they done out of modesty; or out of a desire to draw attention?

Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord; or are they done to bring glory and honor to ones self?


(Remember, I am asking the questions....hoping you can provide the answers....I don't have any piercings, so I can't understand why a Christian would want to have them....hoping you can explain)


Now that is a good question Dave. A very good question! I haven't read the answer, have you?

1 Peter 3:2-4
"While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price".

Better than the world's adornings of tattoos, nose and lip rings are the sprit of meekness and an incorruptible heart. The world's adornings should not be ours. I don't know why so many christians find that so difficult a thing to understand. Aren't we supposed to be different?

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Sojourner on November 12, 2006, 06:48:34 PM
Obviously, like most free willers, you didn't hear a single solitary word that Tony said. Not a word! As for myself, I will stay with people who can receive truth and share in an environment of Biblical dialogue in true love. Thank you very much!  ::)



God's view of the word Love

 http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/god_view_of_love.shtml

Interesting reading. Right in line with what's going on here. Love versus love. This pastor seems to think it boils down to being obedient also. I think we miss the true meaning of love by only looking at the aspects of love, not the definition of love.

Did you know that receiving truth is an aspect of love? Well it is! How many do you know who show this aspect of love? Not many I'll bet!


Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Penne on November 16, 2006, 10:54:09 PM
Lee,

Me too, I was too offensive with everyone.  I got the meaning of your post a day or so later.  I'm not the brightest star in the sky, hee  hee. 

Now about a born again having a tatoo and body piercing.  I do believe if they are truly born again the Holy Spirit will show them all truths and the born again will eventually do the righteous thing. 

Penne
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Pamela on November 17, 2006, 01:39:08 AM
Hi Lee!


Quote
Anyone want to respond to this? What if a person has body piercings and/or tatoos before they are born again. After that, it would be easy to take out the body piercings and not wear anymore, but what about the tatoo?? Do they go and get it removed, which we know is possible to do??


1 Corinthians 7:18  Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1 Corinthians 7:19  Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Corinthians 7:23  You are bought with a price; be not the servants of men.

Romans 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Granted, tattoos are no good, but God looks at the inward man.  Plus Lee, we did have ALL our sins washed away when He died on the cross for us, didn't we?  So we have to remember that these were "washed" too.  We have a lot of judgmental people out there.  Especially "Christians"!  We need to remember where we were BEFORE we got saved, and what we were saved from, and NOT look at the mote in our brother's eye, but the BEAM  in our own eye! 

Matthew 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


John 7:24  Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I still wear earrings.  Is that wrong?  I have never thought so.  ???  Let Him be the Judge.

By the way, I am NOT promoting tattoos or piercings.  I was just replying to the fact that IF we had them before we became a child of God, should we have them removed.  Amen?  My answer is if you feel convicted and have the financial ability to do so, then by all means.  Either way though, it is the inward man that God sees, and the inward man that serves the Lord. :)

God bless,
Pam




Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: SEEN_CHA on August 22, 2007, 10:40:27 PM
     I had my tongue, and a few other things that I would rather not mention, pierced before I was saved.  So I know first hand about it.  I will be right up front about this, I did it because everyone else was doing it, and yes IT DOES DRAW ATTENTION TO ONES SELF, and I wanted it to.  Now after I had become a Christian I took all my piercings out because I did not want someone to look at me and think he's a low life or he's trouble.  Like it or not that is the thoughts people have when they see someone like that, or they think that person must not respect their body enough to not abuse it.  So it was good bye piercings.  I can not see how getting a piercing will help me be a better example of a Christian.  I have to live in this world but I sure don't want people thinking I'm of this world, if they do than I'm doin something wrong. 
     
2 CORINTHIANS 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

P.S.    I believe JESUS was pierced enough for all of us, don't you think?
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Della on September 06, 2009, 12:35:18 PM
P.S.    I believe JESUS was pierced enough for all of us, don't you think?


 Yes I do. Amen?  And glad you came out of that, friend.

Bear with me, this is my first real post with a question. I know I was warned this thread hasn't been posted to for many days, but since my daughter is also now asking if she can get a tattoo, I thought it was current enough to post again on this. What are the biblical reasons that I can tell my daughter why she shouldn't do this. I think it's terrible what's going on with women and tattoos these days, but I need some ammunition, because my daughter is a questioner and she will always ask why not. What should I tell her? Any help?

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Trotter on September 06, 2009, 02:23:18 PM
What are the biblical reasons that I can tell my daughter why she shouldn't do this. I think it's terrible what's going on with women and tattoos these days, but I need some ammunition, because my daughter is a questioner and she will always ask why not. What should I tell her? Any help?



Della, Tattoos and Body Piercings are a return to Paganism, which the Church today doesn''t mind anymore.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/other_studies/body_piercing_a_return_to_paganism.shtml

This article from Christian Action may help you in your search.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Apostolic on September 07, 2009, 09:01:42 AM
I don't think having someone put rings in their nose is biblical, but there is nothing wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake. Nothing at all.

First of all, the passage from Leviticus DOES NOT APPLY. If you read the chapter of Leviticus (particularly the part where tattooing is discussed) you can clearly see that it was directed only to the Levites (the priests of God) because God called them to separate themselves and laid heavier expectations upon them. In addition to not tattooing themselves Levites were also instructed not to marry any woman who was not a virgin, to never taste wine (not even a drop), to never wear clothing that was a mix of fabric types (such as cotton & wool blends), to never eat pigs or rabbits or anything from the sea without scales or fins (so lobster, crabs, and clams are out), to never touch a dead body or dead animal unless it was in the course of a sacrifice ritual in the temple, never shave any spot on their head to baldness, nor trim their beards, nor shave any area on the sides of the head, never uncover their head, nor touch a women who is menstruating - ultra-orthodox Jewish rabbis adhere to many of these rules.

It is unfortunate that, of all the taboo items listed, it is primarily tattooing that is singled out and taken out of context because it is such a "hot" issue.

Additionally, need I remind you that Jesus freed us from the law and instead gave us the Holy Spirit to guide our actions. Paul said it best when he claimed that it was wrong to lay the heavy yoke of the law on gentiles when even the devoutest Pharisees were not capable of upholding it.

As with anything else of this world, it is the how and why of the heart that matters.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Halle on September 07, 2009, 09:53:15 AM
SEEN_CHA, excellent point, and your actions shows that you love God more than the world.

Della, here is an excellent place to start.

 http://mountain-retreat.org/faq/should_christians_get_tattoos.html

 As one who went through that phase of wanting a tattoo, I can tell you I am so glad that I didn't get one. Of course, there is forgiveness for anyone having gotten these, as SEEN_CHA is a great example of one coming to truth. We don't have to be part of the world to live in the world.



Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Trotter on September 07, 2009, 11:49:01 AM
As with anything else of this world, it is the how and why of the heart that matters.

That's what Christians say when they want to do something they know they shouldn't. When they want a divorce, when they want to party at a club with friends, when they want to go gambling, when the cuss and swear. Because this seems to cover all bases with my friends.  I asked a Christian woman why she played the lottery when she knows it's a sin, and she said, don't judge, the Lord knows my heart.
 What does that even mean? Can't we even say when something is a sin anymore?



Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: midas on September 07, 2009, 01:35:58 PM
I still liike my post on this question

 
Yes, many Christians? by day drive their sports cars, a body piercing or two, a tattoo here and there, suggestive clothing, fashion hairstyles all for the love of the world - By night they chat on Christian forums talking about the love of God, helping the poor and embracing differences in biblical interpretations  ... But that's OK because everyone sins, God is love, and forgives us when we pray ...

Revelation 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

You can't have it both ways ... Not even with a loving God ...
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: John on September 07, 2009, 01:38:02 PM
Quote
Additionally, need I remind you that Jesus freed us from the law and instead gave us the Holy Spirit to guide our actions.


We are freed from the penalty under the Law for sin - which should condemn us. That freedom is in Christ, who took the penalty under the Law on our behalf (His elect). Because of this Paul can write that we are not under law but grace:

Rom 6:14-15
14 --  For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 --  What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!


If we are under grace then what does that imply? Paul says "What then?"  We are free to sin? Not at all. As Paul says, we have become "... enslaved to righteousness" and because we owe all our freedom to God, we have, "... become enslaved to God".

If we are enslaved to God we are obligated to obey the Word of God.

1Pe 2:16
16 --  as free, yet not using freedom as a cover for wickedness, but as bondservants of God.

What is a tattoo that makes some compelled to seek it? Where would you go to find men with tattoos? Are they gathered at the local library, are they kneeling in a church, or are tattoos found on clean-shaven executives? Not likely. It is in the bars, in biker clubs, gangs, prisons, thugs, prostitutes, fornicators, violent men, and loners, or any other "profession" that is by nature needing to proclaim their "freedom" from the Law.

We all must choose how we are going to present our identity, if we want to be part of the club we must dress and act "presentable". If we are cannibals it would do us no good to declare that we are embracing vegetarianism. If you want to be part of the hip crowd in one ethnic community you wear the proper cultural dress - or face being ostracized. You don't join a gang and wear a business suit, or enter corporate America in beard and leather pants, and so to be a first-rate rebel you must conform to the norm, so that you can fight against "the man" in the proper attire.

All this image-making, the hat backwards, baggy pants around the knees, tattoos and piercing and identity clothing is designed to proclaim which faction you identify with and thereby belong to so the 'rest of us' will respect you. And for what purpose? Well, because the group is greater in power and prestige than the individual. We identify with groups and harness the 'image' so that we can benefit from their perceived strengths. Tattoos communicate a rebellious personality because that is the group identity - it is a manufactured identity borrowed and on loan. It says "look at me"; see how I'm a tough guy without allegiance to anything but myself - so you better stand clear because I'm fearless.

1Jn 2:16
16 --  Because everything that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not from the Father but is from the world.

What is all this revolt really aimed at? In the first instance, anyone who has authority over you; these carefully cultivated 'images' work to say: "keep away". Without a word we understand the hat-backward, pants-around-the-knee kid stumbling down the sidewalk with one hand holding his jeans up is suffering through it all just so he can state publicly, "I don't bow to your authority". And who is the one that represents authority?

The rebel is ultimately fighting against the knowledge of God and his unwillingness to conform to God's Law is manifested by his display of his own self-power and fearlessness. Whether it's a cigarette, a bottle, a tattoo, hip clothing, piercings, or really any unusual or shocking behavior or dress -- all are by design meant to send the unspoken message "I'm not conformed" or rather "I'm conformed to a group of non-conformists". It also sends the message, "I'm at war with God and man and live in fear of both".

And what of the "Christian" - are we freed from the Law so that we can sip our sipping whisky, shoot pool in the bar or our choice, dress like the Fonz or perhaps Joe Camel with a cigarette hanging out our mouth, and like James Dean be the star rebel and troubled child - shall we throw in a few tattoos and piercings, a long beard and long hair - an unkempt look to sell the image, or if that isn't rebel-enough perhaps apply some Goth makeup or dye our hair orange, green, and pink to "shock" those conformist establishment types – for, it is said, we aren't under the Law but under Grace.

It's all a lost cause for the conformist - for they are forced to conform to the image of a non-conformist, which is conforming. But God calls His people to truly not-conform - that is to this world, for we must rather conform to His Son. Since we all must conform to something - it is the prudent person that chooses to conform to the likeness of His Creator - rather than conform superficially to a group that of itself is powerless and only has the 'image' of power. And if we conform to God's Son then we must leave behind as so much rubbish our childish 'identity' that we thought provided strength and power - for our power, strength, and identity, if we have faith, is properly understood to be in Christ and only Christ.

If our strength is in Christ, and we are humbled to obey our Master - then we will look at the robes of defiance that we used to wear and count them as filthy rags. We have put on the new man as Christians - and we discard the "former way of life" for it is "deceitful". Our conforming is to the "likeness of God" so that we obey the Commandments of God as we are increasingly sanctified by the Spirit of God.

Eph 4:20-24
20 --  But you did not thus learn Christ,
21 --  if indeed you have heard Him and were instructed by Him, just as the truth is in Jesus:
22 --  that you put off, concerning your former way of life, the old man which is being corrupted according to the deceitful lusts,
23 --  and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 --  and that you put on the new man which was created in the likeness of God, in true righteousness and holiness.


There is no room for displays of rebellion in our speech, dress, appearance, or behavior anymore - for in conforming to Christ we are by nature engaged in a different rebellion. We are now a rebel against the power of this world - and we adopt more so over time the 'image' of this new man - patterned after the heavenly image.

1Co 15:48-49
48 --  Like the man made of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 --  And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust, let us also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

 
So, the Christian appearance is not to be fixed to the external, to the fancies and needs of this world, to vain attempts at gaining worldly attention or meeting the desires of the old-man that wars against God. It is the humble, gentle, and quiet spirit that God will not despise. Since we must conform to something, conform to the image of God. And since likewise we must rebel against something - rebel against the deceitfulness and lies of this world.

1Jn 5:19-21
19 --  We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the evil one.
20 --  And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true; and we are in Him that is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
21 --  Little children, guard yourselves from idols. Amen.


john
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Tony Warren on September 07, 2009, 02:49:33 PM
>>>
I don't think having someone put rings in their nose is biblical, but there is nothing wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake.
<<<

You are contradicting yourself, as you are saying it's about appearance, but nose rings to you are not biblical, but tattoos to you are perfectly biblical, based upon what? Appearance? Where does the Bible say Body Piercings do not have a good appearance but Tattoos do? Of course, what has happened is that you have made yourself the king maker, the judge of one being Biblical and the other not, based upon how you see them. I would rather let God be the judge, through his word, rather than my personal views, interpretations, opinions or modern fads.

The question in this thread that has never been answered by those supporting Christian's getting tattoos was by Dave Taylor:

Perhaps you should explain the intent and the purpose of peircings Tasha?
Are they done out of modesty; or out of a desire to draw attention?
Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord; or are they done to bring glory and honor to ones self?
(Remember, I am asking the questions....hoping you can provide the answers....I don't have any piercings, so I can't understand why a Christian would want to have them....hoping you can explain)

Perhaps it has never been answered because the answer is more revealing than one would want. As for myself, I find it very strange that a true Christian would not be willing to sacrifice conforming to the world in getting tattoos, for the sake of Christ and unity. Very strange. But as you said, it's for appearance sake. Because for sure, even the unsaved know there is something wrong when they see so-called Christians full of tattoos. What positive service could that possibly be to the cause of Christ. It is self-evident that to conform to be like the world is not the mindset of those with the Spirit of Christ.

Romans 12:1

That's the key. The will of God, not our own. Sadly, today's Christians don't seem to know what sacrifice is. To them, sacrifice is what Christ did, not something they themselves should ever have to do. Present your bodies a living sacrifice to them is ...mere words. To them to sacrifice anything in their lives is tantamount to legalism.


Quote
>>>
Nothing at all.
<<<

Nothing at all wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake? That all depends upon if we live for Christ, or for ourselves.

1st Corinthians 10:31

Whether we tattoo or do body piercing, do all to the Glory of God? Nothing at all wrong with getting tattoos for appearance sake? Again, that all depends upon if we live for Christ, or the acceptance of the world. Yes, we can be like the world. The question is, should we.


Quote
>>>
First of all, the passage from Leviticus DOES NOT APPLY. If you read the chapter of Leviticus (particularly the part where tattooing is discussed) you can clearly see that it was directed only to the Levites (the priests of God) because God called them to separate themselves and laid heavier expectations upon them.
<<<

It's not just for Levites anymore than anything else in the Bible was written just for Levites. The "FACT" is, all of us, as true Christians, are as the Levites, a priestly people called out to separate ourselves, God having laid upon us heavier expectations than of the world. That's the whole point! Be ye separate! We are not to be like others who don't take our service to God seriously, we are to be sanctified priesthood, a holy people set-apart for the special service of God. That is the point. That we be separate from the world and all its corrupting influences. As the body of Christ, the only true Levite, we represent Christ on earth. And as such, we are bondservants or slaves of God, to do His will on earth. We belong to Him, so that our will is not our own.

Numbers 8:14

The Levites are a picture of the true Priests and servants of God doing His will "among" the rest of the house of Israel. the image of Christ on earth. Likewise, in Christ, the true believers are the Lord's Levites, separate from others who are not sanctified, who have not the Spirit of sacrifice, and who make excuses for everything that their own selfish will desires. That is the Point! A people separated by God and called to Priestly service as the body of Christ on earth.


Quote
>>>
In addition to not tattooing themselves Levites were also instructed not to marry any woman who was not a virgin,
<<<

You do know about types? This signified the Levites represented Christ, who is married to the bride, which is a virgin, clean from sin.

Matthew 25:1

The Levites represent the body of Christ, who is betrothed to the virgin bride.

Quote
>>>
...to never taste wine (not even a drop),
<<<

Because wine symbolizes blood, and blood is the life which thing they were not to drink.

Proverbs 20:1

Genesis 9:3-4

Judges 13:4

Wine, signifying the blood, was an unclean thing to eat. And the children of God were to be separated from the unclean things. Thus the Priests, commissioned in service to God, were not to drink of any wine.


Quote
>>>
...to never wear clothing that was a mix of fabric types (such as cotton & wool blends),
<<<

Again, precisely the point. The two diverse threads signified God's people were as diverse from the people of the world as these two threads were. thus we should act accordingly! If you do a "careful" study of this you will find that this signified the Church of Israel were not to mix with the worldly nations around them, as this would change the fabric. Selah. That's the Point of not mixing diverse threads. Do we think God cares about types of literal thread? No, God is making a point that Christians try desperately to miss. And we need to understand this before we can understand why the Church is set apart, separated from the world. Why we shouldn't do as the world does, have music like the world does, raise our kids like the world does, teach the morals of the world, join in the fads, have no-fault divorce, and on and on. ...again, that is the WHOLE point!


Quote
>>>
...to never eat pigs or rabbits or anything from the sea without scales or fins (so lobster, crabs, and clams are out),
<<<

...again, the Point here is to stay away (separate yourself) from the unclean thing. God had appointed these things as "TYPES" signifying the unclean nations that they were to be separated from. Why do you think that when the Lord brought the Sheet to Peter with all the unclean animals on it, and Peter said He never ate unclean things? That precept was specifically signifying the separation between Jews and Gentiles, the clean and the unclean.

Acts 11:1-9

So we can look at the Old Testament laws in our vain attempt to justify modern heathen practices, and even in the name of beauty, commission or style, but the truth is that the scriptures do just the opposite. They confirm that God used it to signify that God's people were to be separate from these people and their worldly fads, gods, customs and heathen practices.

God shows us in Acts that the laws in Leviticus symbolized the Gentile nations that the Children of Israel were separated from, which Gentile nations God had now cleansed that they could now be part of Israel. Selah! Again, that separation of God's people is the whole point of Leviticus. God's people being separated from the people of the world. So many are missing the whole point of these things in Leviticus because they are so busy trying to justify their worldly behavior.


Quote
>>>
...to never touch a dead body or dead animal unless it was in the course of a sacrifice ritual in the temple, never shave any spot on their head to baldness, nor trim their beards, nor shave any area on the sides of the head, never uncover their head, nor touch a women who is menstruating - ultra-orthodox Jewish rabbis adhere to many of these rules.
<<<

Etc., etc., etc. Yes, and why? Because Israel in part is blinded, and cannot see the "Spiritual" truths of the types and shadows which these things prefigured. So what's the church's excuse? What's the Christian's excuse for not understanding Messiah is not coming to establish a earthly Kingdom, or that clean and unclean meats signified separation, or that the Holy Temple is the earthly representation of Christ, or a menstruating woman was ceremonially unclean to signify that same separation? I know Israel's excuse, but what is the Christian's excuse?

Matthew 13:15

I tell you, it's not only Israel and the Jewish rabbis. For Christ Himself said many would come in that day, saying Lord, Lord, and thinking that they see clearly and that they are saved and that they had the truth. What is His (not mine) reply to them? What's the point? The point is, all that glimmers is not gold.

These ceremonies of Leviticus were all types signifying holiness and separation from the worldly practices. It's not a sin for anyone not to know this, the sin is the spirit of man to reject God's Spirit of truth. Whatsoever we do, do all to the glory of God. Truth or fable?

Maybe you can find some time someday to do an in-depth study of each one of Leviticus's precepts and understand God is talking about this holy separation of His people from the people of the world. A separation that they not emulate and take on their worldly customs and practices. The same as we're teaching about Tattoos and Body piercings. Nothing has changed, it's just that the Church today has long forgotten it is set apart a Diverse creation that doesn't follow the ways of the world in morality, divorce, fornication, honor, not tattoos and Body piercings. Where is the set apart, when the Church is so much like the world, one can LITERALLY not tell one groups practices from the other? Selah!

Quote
>>>
It is unfortunate that, of all the taboo items listed, it is primarily tattooing that is singled out and taken out of context because it is such a "hot" issue.
<<<

Number 1, because we are talking about tattooing, and number 2 I presume that is because to go through each item there sufficiently one would have to write a book, instead of responding "somewhat concisely" in a message forum format. That tattooing is not a Godly service is not ambiguous as some suppose, it is just that when one wants to justify something, it is easy to do so by claiming the word ambiguous on the matter.

Nevertheless, the WHOLE point of the Leviticus and Deuteronomy chapters, concerning all these things is the separation of God's people from these practices, traditions, gods and conventions of the heathen world that was around them. That's the point so many people choose to miss. Godís desire is to set his people apart from the worldly cultures. Holy essentially means "set apart." When we are sanctified as Christians, we are set apart for the service of God, as the Levite Priests were. That is God's desire and it hasn't changed. THAT, is the whole point God is making throughout the chapter. They were a special people who were "not:" to be like the word and follow after their traditions. Likewise, we are making the exact same point in speaking against the same heathenistic practices of tattooing and piercing that have become all the rage in the world. And "now" also in the House of the Lord. And the really sad part is the great number of professing Christians, ignorant of God's devices, that have fallen prey to the same errors that God in Leviticus warned against, and for the same reasons. Instead of preaching the tenants of separation, the kings of the earth preach acceptance in compromise unholy union. Not altogether unexpected, but saddening nonetheless.

Quote
>>>
Additionally, need I remind you that Jesus freed us from the law and instead gave us the Holy Spirit to guide our actions.
<<<

Typical response, and just as typically in error. The Spirit was not given to negate the law, but to expound and reveal it. The law stands. The law commands you not to murder. You think the law is abrogated? The fact is, we are freed from condemnation of the law, which doesn't mean that we sin that Grace may abound. In other words, just because we are free from the law doesn't mean we can steal, or murder or hate or lie, etc. So often Christians do not really understand what being free from the law means, and erroneously assign it to meaning we can do anything we like.

Romans 6:2

We can't. We are a new creation with a new Spirit. Sin is the transgression of the law. So then, dead to the law does not mean that we have liberty to sin. The question is, do "real" Christians live in sin because they "think" it is all covered by Grace? And the answer is no. Thus we won't tattoo our body because we think that sin is all covered by Christian liberty or immunity from the law by Grace.


Quote
>>>
Paul said it best when he claimed that it was wrong to lay the heavy yoke of the law on gentiles when even the devoutest Pharisees were not capable of upholding it.
<<<

Salvation by law, not obedience. unfortunately, too many people don't know the difference between exhorting to obedience, and legalism. Truly, is it Legalism, or exhortation to obedience?

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/what_is_legalism.shtml

The Lord Judge. But one thing I can tell you is that you don't understand what Christ freeing us from the law means. It doesn't mean we can righteously do the stigmata thing, carve our body into shreds, tattoo all over it, pierce every place that is cuttable, etc., etc. claiming it's all Christian liberty. Whatever is not to the glory of God is sin. Yes, sins are forgiven, but that is not the question. The question is, shall we sin that grace may abound? if we think yes, then we must honestly ask ourselves if we are actually born of the Spirit.


Quote
>>>
As with anything else of this world, it is the how and why of the heart that matters.
<<<

Yeah, but like everything (and everyone) in this world, everyone thinks their heart is pure, thinks their ways are clean, thinks they are correct and God will understand. But without real communion with God through His Spirit, that sagacious thinking is in man's wisdom of the world, not God's wisdom. As it is written:

Proverbs 16:1-2

Amen! His will be done! The Lord weighs the Spirit my friend, and not how clean we think our heart is. The Spirit of man must be moved by the Spirit of God in Him, else that spirit that won't pass the test of the weight balances of the Lord. vis-a-vis, if we love the Lord, we keep His commandments. Not in legalism, but in the Spirit of agape, which is the Spirit of obedience. That's God's definition of truth, love and charity that will tip the balances. But it is not man's. And that is the problem. Man wants his will, which is the way of the world. But as they say, no sacrifice, no victory. we take up our cross and follow Him, not the world. Selah.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Erik Diamond on September 07, 2009, 03:17:44 PM
Although I don't agree with everything Pastor Craig Gross, known as "Porn Pastor" do, but I can agree his assessment that many traditional churches often preach a "message of intolerance"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/porn-pastor-offers-love-gays-outcasts/story?id=8494496 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/porn-pastor-offers-love-gays-outcasts/story?id=8494496)

That is why many churches are falling because of message of intolerance with worldly images and abominations. Including tattoos!

Erik
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Trotter on September 07, 2009, 03:46:52 PM
Although I don't agree with everything Pastor Craig Gross, known as "Porn Pastor" do, but I can agree his assessment that many traditional churches often preach a "message of intolerance"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/porn-pastor-offers-love-gays-outcasts/story?id=8494496 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/porn-pastor-offers-love-gays-outcasts/story?id=8494496)

That is why many churches are falling because of message of intolerance with worldly images and abominations. Including tattoos!

Erik


 )Say_what( What?  This is one of the most confusing messages I've ever read. What is the point of posting this God hating pornagraphic link? That he has a good point about what? It's confusing? What message of intollerance?  Either I'm dumb, or you are being vague.



Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Kenneth White on September 07, 2009, 04:06:08 PM
Either I'm dumb, or you are being vague.

 You're not dumb :)

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Erik Diamond on September 07, 2009, 04:27:54 PM
Trotter,

My mistake.

My point is that people like these are starting a "church" or traditional churches become more like world by preaching gospel with more TOLERANCE to sins while there are some church maintance their position against these abominations.  I have heard many christians that kept saying "Christ loves gays", "no one prefect", "Abortion is wrong" while they are practicing birth control themselves, etc.

I posted a link to show you the example of why church are sick today.

Sorry about the confusing.

Erik   

 
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Trotter on September 07, 2009, 04:54:18 PM
Trotter,

My mistake.

My point is that people like these are starting a "church" or traditional churches become more like world by preaching gospel with more TOLERANCE to sins while there are some church maintance their position against these abominations.


Ok, now I get it. Thanks.


Quote
  I have heard many christians that kept saying "Christ loves gays", "no one prefect", "Abortion is wrong" while they are practicing birth control themselves, etc.

I posted a link to show you the example of why church are sick today.

Sorry about the confusing.

Erik   

Yeah, and that is one sick Church, if we can call it that.  That is an extreme case of the Harlot of Revelation.  Most are more subtle in their abominations. Which makes them more dangerous than the one in that link.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Betty on September 08, 2009, 08:34:30 AM
You said it right the first time Erik. Some theologians intolerance of other Christians who desire to enhance the appearance of their bodies with tattoos is what is making the Church fall. That's exactly right.

I don't think it matters if you get a tattoo or not if you're a Christian. My friends are Christians and they're planning on getting tattoos and lip piercings. And I really think it is terrible how Christians say, "Oh, God won't love you if you have a tattoo." That's not true. God love you unconditionally? No matter if you have a tattoo or piercing or what not. He gave us a free will and free choice, and if you want to wear nose rings and other such adorning, it's OK. The hateful intolerance of these things by Christians is despicable.

John writes a post saying in essence that it is ok to judge, and that we are not free from the law. But the bible says judge not lest ye be judged.

[Bible in Basic English] (Matthew 7:1)
 Be not judges of others, and you will not be judged.

Tony writes a post and says we are not to be like the world, so we shouldn't get tattoos like them. Does that mean we cannot wear ear rings, lip stick or false eyelashes? I have a Christian friend who had breast implants, does that mean she's like the world and is going to hell? Careful John and Tony, you are in danger of judgment yourself.

[Bible in Basic English] (Matthew 7:2)
For as you have been judging, so you will be judged, and with your measure will it be measured to you.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Tony Warren on September 09, 2009, 09:34:27 AM
>>>
You said it right the first time Erik. Some theologians intolerance of other Christians who desire to enhance the appearance of their bodies with tattoos..
<<<

I wonder how that would have gone over with the early faithful Church (1st Timothy 2:9) in their intolerance? Would Martha say:

"But Paul, I don't like your intolerance to other Christians in demanding that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety, not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array. How hateful you are, it's the Lord that judges our heart, not you!"

Sure, there may have been some who actually thought that. But that doesn't mean it has any Christian merit whatsoever, it just means some people don't want to be ruled over by God. They desire their own will that they may rule themselves. Been that way since the Garden.


Quote
>>>
...is what is making the Church fall. That's exactly right.
<<<

In your thinking, sure!  But to those who trust in the Lord of the Lord, rather than the sound of their own voice, it's just the opposite that is making the church fall. We know intolerance is not what is making the church fall, intolerance is what "had" kept the church relatively faithful for years. A Holy intollerance, the aversion to changing or usurping the word of God.

Proverbs 22:28

The church today has removed nearly all the ancient landmarks their fathers have set, and there is no boundary they won't cross in order to do their own will, in the name of Christian liberty.

In years past the church "wouldn't tolerate" these ideas, wouldn't tolerate Tattoos, wouldn't tolerate Christian Rock, wouldn't tolerate Divorce, wouldn't tolerate living in fornication, wouldn't tolerate using God's name in vain, wouldn't tolerate watching the Super Bowl in church, wouldn't tolerate nose rings, wouldn't tolerate false teachers, Jezebels or spiritual harlotry, etc., etc. YES, "intolerance" is what kept the church relatively faithful all those years. But just look at her now with all her tolerance!  :'(

No, it is intolerance LOST that is the problem. It is tolerance that ultimately brings the church to ruin. Slowly but surely. Like the boiling frog scenario. Put him in a pot of Hot water and the frog will attempt to immediately jump out. But put a frog in cold water and slowly heat it up and the frog will sit there and boil to death. That's how the church has slowly been degraded. Tolerance of one little thing, then another, then another, until ultimately nearly anything becomes bankrupt. It is in fact the kings of the earth who want to tolerate every idea that is foreign to true Godliness and communion, and incorporate every worldly fad and fashion into church acceptance. That is what causes the church to fall. It is tolerance, not intolerance.

Jeremiah 23:22-24

IF the Ministers and Pastors had been intolerant and had stood in God's counsel, and had caused His people to hear His words, then the churches wouldn't fall. The problem is, some professed Christians think they can hide the intents of their heart in vain platitudes about Love, intolerance, the glory of God and some misguided idea that Grace is a license to sin. But we choose to stand in God's counsel and testify of the truth that God's people are a peculiar people, separated from the ways of the world. Testify that some might actually hear God's words and turn from "the way of the world," and from the error of their "thinking." These are those who know the difference between the way of the world, and the way of glorifying God. And never the two shall meet.


Quote
>>>
I don't think it matters if you get a tattoo or not if you're a Christian.
<<<

I don't think it matters if you curse or not if you're a Christian. I don't think it matters if you play Rock music in Church if you're a Christian. I don't think it matters if you get a divorce or not if you're a Christian. I don't think it matters if you gamble or not if you're a Christian. I don't think it matters if you covet or not if you're a Christian. I don't think it matters if you get drunk or not if you're a Christian. I don't think it matters if break the law or not if you're a Christian. ...so what else is new. Nothing new there! Nothing new under the sun.

Romans 10:16

Has anything changed? Aren't God's people still serving themselves instead of God, while thinking they serve God? Even the Scribes and Pharisees thought they were God's chosen and were serving God. What did their erroneous beliefs get them in the end? So, what we think doesn't matter if it's not in line with the word of God.


Quote
>>>
My friends are Christians and they're planning on getting tattoos and lip piercings. And I really think it is terrible how Christians say, "Oh, God won't love you if you have a tattoo."
<<<

Straw Man. Who said that? I've never heard that. I've heard people say they've heard people say that, but funny, I never actually heard anyone say that.

But for the record, I'm sure there are many Christians who have had tattoos. I'm sure there are many Christians who have stolen. Many Christians who have lied and cheated. I mean, look at Peter? ...but what has that to do with what is right and wrong? i.e., because Peter denied the Lord three times and was forgiven, does that mean it is OK to deny the Lord? I repeat, I don't know anyone who says if you have a Tattoo, God won't love you. That Red Herring, Straw Man is just fuel for the fire.


Quote
>>>
 That's not true. God love you unconditionally? No matter if you have a tattoo or piercing or what not.
<<<

God loves "His People Unconditionally," and His people RECEIVE His word because they have the Spirit of truth dwelling within them. Those with the spirit of disobedience make excuses why His word is not applicable, is void, has been negated or how we are not really under law anymore so we don't "really" have to obey the law.

Colossians 3:5-7

What some people don't realize is that True Christianity is a New Life, not just a New Name. Selah! Mortify the old man and his worldly ideas about tattoos, divorce, liberty, and walk in new life as the new man. It seems that's just too hard for some to do, "AS IF" the burden of our cross in sacrifice is too heavy. Heaven forbid we should have to give up tattoos and nose Rings. What a heavy Burden to bear    ::)


Quote
>>>
He gave us a free will and free choice, and if you want to wear nose rings and other such adorning, it's OK.
<<<

Did He? Because in my Bible God gave clear guidelines that Today's Christians "CHOOSE" to ignore.

1st Peter 3:3-4

Not that modern Christians will take God's word here seriously, but it is God's word and meant to be taken seriously, with a certain intolerance. The definition of Christian intolerance being "opposition to beliefs and practices foreign to God's word." Just as tolerance is a lack of opposition to beliefs and practices foreign to God's word.


Quote
>>>
The hateful intolerance of these things by Christians is despicable.
<<<

Exhorting to obedience is not hateful, it is charity, agape Love. That some professed Christians cannot understand that fact doesn't make it any less a fact. To some, God's commandments, precepts, rules and guidelines are grievous and a burden, but to those who love God, it is truth. Blessed are those with the love of truth.

1st John 5:3

Some Christians just don't get it. His law to them is legalism, not love. But that contradicts God's word.

2nd John 1:6

While it is true exhorting to obedience is Love, and love is a four letter word, that word does not translate to hate, but Charity. Love of our neighbor as ourselves, agape!

Quote
>>>
The hateful intolerance of these things by Christians is despicable.
<<<

One man's hatefulness to Christians is another man's love for Christians, and one man's despicable-ness is another man's faithfulness. The Lord ultimately will judge between the two.


Quote
>>>
John writes a post saying in essence that it is ok to judge, and that we are not free from the law. But the bible says judge not lest ye be judged.

[Bible in Basic English] (Matthew 7:1)
 Be not judges of others, and you will not be judged.
<<<


It all depends upon how you define Judgment. Judgment of another man's salvation we will not do, but judgment was given all the elect who have the Spirit of Christ. Unfortunately, like in the congregation before, judgment in today's congregation is not being used.

Isaiah 59:14-15

And all God's people said, AMEN! There is nothing new under the sun.


Quote
>>>
Tony writes a post and says we are not to be like the world, so we shouldn't get tattoos like them.
<<<

How despicable! :(


Quote
>>>
Does that mean we cannot wear ear rings, lip stick or false eyelashes? I have a Christian friend who had breast implants, does that mean she's like the world and is going to hell? Careful John and Tony, you are in danger of judgment yourself.

[Bible in Basic English] (Matthew 7:2)
For as you have been judging, so you will be judged, and with your measure will it be measured to you.
<<<

Fortunately for us, the Lord will be judging, not man.

1st Corinthians 2:1-5

May God grant that our faith not stand in the wisdom of men, but of God. That we go not in the way of the world, but in the way of Christ. That we not serve ourselves in our vain will and desires, but serve God and always seek to do what is glorifying to Him. rather than ourselves!


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Granny on September 09, 2009, 11:54:57 AM

Tony,
 
I guess our way of thinking is considered old fashion today. Thanks for being a light shinning in darkness. This truly is a Mountain Retreat that doesn't tolerate the sins of the world. Thank You, Thank You!

 1 Peter 1:14-16
 "As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
  But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
  Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy".
 
You know, in listening to most Christians, I think they believe this verse means, be holy the best you can, without letting it interfere with your own pleasures and will.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Pamela on September 09, 2009, 12:34:54 PM
I am seeing so many "Christians" that think they can live in the world and live like the world, but yet call themselves Christians.  To be a Christian is to follow Christ's example!  I just don't see Christ getting a tattoo!

He was in the midst of sinners, but did not participate in their sin.  He reproved it!

Romans 12:1-2  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Granny on September 10, 2009, 08:42:38 AM
I am seeing so many "Christians" that think they can live in the world and live like the world, but yet call themselves Christians.  To be a Christian is to follow Christ's example!


I know! Why Christians cannot seem to understand that these days, is beyond me.


Quote
  I just don't see Christ getting a tattoo!

Or piercing His nose, or gambling in Vegas. There is just no love of God in Christians these days. And I know, I'll be called old fashioned, but that has nothing to do with following Christ's example. That is timeless.


Quote
Romans 12:1-2  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


Amen. The will of God and living sacrifices. Why are those two things so hard for Christians to grasp. Not once do these Christians ask themselves if it is pleasing to God, so long as it pleases them.

Needless to say I am totally against Christians getting tattoos, lip and nose rings. And the reason is because it does not glorify God.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Shirley on May 08, 2014, 07:50:48 AM
I just saw a national news program this morning that said America is becoming "Tattoo Nation" as they called it and the tattoo capital of the world. Why has this country so devolved and become so carnal and so earthy? I don't get what the draw is with Tattoos, but it seems that I am the only one since almost everyone under 40 seems to be getting them. I hesitate to call it a fad because it's not going away. So what is the draw?

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on May 25, 2014, 10:33:30 AM
I just saw a national news program this morning that said America is becoming "Tattoo Nation" as they called it and the tattoo capital of the world. Why has this country so devolved and become so carnal and so earthy? I don't get what the draw is with Tattoos, but it seems that I am the only one since almost everyone under 40 seems to be getting them. I hesitate to call it a fad because it's not going away. So what is the draw?

The draw is many things, not the least of which is peer pressure. You know, "Everybody's got one so I want one too." Like the Hoola Hoop! Then there's ego and vanity. There's also the immature who think they look cool with these marks on their skin. Then there's those who think it is a sign of their freedom or independence.

You have to realize, for most people, Christianity doesn't enter into it. It's just what they want to do. Never mind if it is God glorifying or not. They just think it looks good. My thing is, now so many professing Christians are doing it also, and more importantly they are attempting to justify it as a Christian liberty. It's worldly, but Christians don't care anymore the image they are putting forth to the world that they are just like them. They only care about themselves. Just like in the Anti-government thread. Christians don't care how things look, they just want their individual rights and freedoms. If it's at the expense of Christianity, so be it.

The bottom line is, there is no way anyone can say that placing these markings in their skin is God glorifying. Bottom Line. But the bottom line these days is well below what it use to be.


Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Maurice on May 25, 2014, 05:11:43 PM
I've got tattoos and I don't care what you or anyone else says. I like them, it's my right to have them, and who are you to tell me it's wrong. The only thing wrong in this world is when you hurt someone else, not doing anything to yourself or having fun or loving anyone. If it's not injuring anyone else, anyone is free to do what they want.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Erik Diamond on May 26, 2014, 05:08:55 PM
Quote
I've got tattoos and I don't care what you or anyone else says. I like them, it's my right to have them, and who are you to tell me it's wrong.

Will you dare to say the same thing to God on Judgment Day?

1 Corinthians 6:19
[19]  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

There are many Christians out there with same mindset that used their bodies for abortion, birth control, face-lift, tummy tuck, pornography, homosexuality, or even Tattoo. Your justification for it by saying, "I don't care. Who are you to judge me? It is MY BODY" is WITHOUT merit!

Repent, Maurice.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Alex Rowland on May 27, 2014, 08:21:14 AM
Erik,
   Most Reformed Christians take a libertarian view of the body and personal freedoms in that we have Christian liberty to rebel against unfair taxes, eat whatever we want, drink alcohol, smoke pipes, cigars or cigarette, get tattoos and gamble. These are not sins because nowhere in the Bible are they forbidden. So we are at liberty to do them.

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1"

Would you bring us again into the law of bondage?
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on May 27, 2014, 10:42:31 AM
Erik,
   Most Reformed Christians take a libertarian view of the body and personal freedoms in that we have Christian liberty to rebel against unfair taxes, eat whatever we want, drink alcohol, smoke pipes, cigars or cigarette, get tattoos and gamble. These are not sins because nowhere in the Bible are they forbidden. So we are at liberty to do them.

 I don't know that this is true, but even if it was, that doesn't mean it's biblical. Consensus isn't the test of truth.

 Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
 Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

What does that say to you? Anything?

You say to rebel against unfair taxes is not forbidden by God. You say we can eat whatever we want, drink alcohol, smoke pipes, cigars or cigarette and get tattoos and gamble. You say that this is all not forbidden, which means God sanctions all these. I say you superficially read your bible to make God like the world and His word to conform to what you want to do.


Quote
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1"

Would you bring us again into the law of bondage?

To borrow a phrase from Tony, "text quoted out of context, is pretext." Doesn't the Bible say that we have been called unto liberty, but we are not to use liberty as an occasion to the flesh? I guess you missed that part. And Tattoos, nose rings, piercings of the body and drinking, smoking and gambling as an occasion to the flesh. So, are we yet carnal? Or are we led by the spirit?
 
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on May 27, 2014, 10:50:53 AM
I've got tattoos and I don't care what you or anyone else says.

Although you are not Christian, you fit right in with the thinking of some Christians. Or at least some who say they are Christian.


Quote
I like them, it's my right to have them, and who are you to tell me it's wrong.

A witness to the word of God. Nothing more.


Quote
The only thing wrong in this world is when you hurt someone else, not doing anything to yourself or having fun or loving anyone. If it's not injuring anyone else, anyone is free to do what they want.

So if I want to run naked through a preschool class, that's OK since I'm injuring no one according to your philosophy? I can do whatever I want? Yes, that's the carnal view, which you not being a Christian, you are free to take. But that is not the Christian view. In our religion, we cannot do whatever we want, we do what is God's will. We follow Christ. That's why we're called Christian. Get it? Christ-ian! Why do you spend so much time attempting to tell Christians not to follow Christ, but do their own thing?

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on May 27, 2014, 10:59:31 AM
Or piercing His nose, or gambling in Vegas. There is just no love of God in Christians these days. And I know, I'll be called old fashioned, but that has nothing to do with following Christ's example. That is timeless.

Not according to today's Church. According to them, the laws in Leviticus against tattoos were simply cultural laws, and have no standing today because we live in a different culture. You said it correctly, we're all called old fashioned when we still follow God's word. But so be it.

Again, it bears repeating, one of the very best articles I've ever read against this practice of tattoos and body piercings is from Tony Warren.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/should_christians_get_tattoos.html

Because it addresses most of the lame objections, and point blank asks the relevant questions. Are they done out of Christian modesty or out of a desire to draw attention? Are they done to give glory and honor to the Lord God, or to bring attention, glory and praise of ones self? Best of all, it addresses the elephant in the room, the alleged Christian liberty.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Wanda on May 27, 2014, 12:16:05 PM
   Most Reformed Christians take a libertarian view of the body and personal freedoms in that we have Christian liberty to rebel against unfair taxes, eat whatever we want, drink alcohol, smoke pipes, cigars or cigarette, get tattoos and gamble. T

Alex, don't presume to speak for the reformed community, you don't. At best you can speak for yourself.  As for freedom to rebel against unfair taxes, to eat whatever we want (blood?), to drink alcohol, to smoke pipes, cigars or cigarette, and get tattoos, body piercing and to gamble? I would say that even the non-Christian would look at all those things and raise their eyebrows in discerning that Christians doing them seem out of place.  Why is it Christians cannot discern what even the world can discern? Is it because some Christians want so much to be like the world they don't know the difference between serving God and serving their carnal nature?

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Wanda on May 27, 2014, 12:17:50 PM

Although you are not Christian, you fit right in with the thinking of some Christians. Or at least some who say they are Christian.


Did Maurice say he is not a Christian, or is this your supposition?


Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Reformer on May 28, 2014, 06:25:09 AM

Although you are not Christian, you fit right in with the thinking of some Christians. Or at least some who say they are Christian.


Did Maurice say he is not a Christian, or is this your supposition?

Words from his own mouth.  :'(
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Fred on July 12, 2014, 05:01:16 PM

I'm convinced that guys get tattoos because they want to appear bad or a rebel, and girls get tattoos for the same reason that they all secretly want bad boys. And they do! It's because they want to appear bad or rebellious themselves.

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Ed Holcombe on August 11, 2014, 08:57:45 PM
I change my mind to often to get something as permanent as a tattoo.  Never make a purchase you can't resell.   
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Soldier on August 17, 2014, 11:05:49 AM

Something interesting, even for an unbeliever

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/magazine/the-existential-anguish-of-the-tattoo.html?_r=2

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: William B on August 17, 2014, 06:46:09 PM
I'm another one who cannot understand this morbid and obviously carnal fascination of Christians with tattoos, immodest clothing and vanity that seems to have come over the entire world. What is its charm? There are very few things more visually disturbing than seeing a person plastered with tattoos or nose rings. It's pagan and unseemly. I don't get it and I never will. Unbelievers I can understand a little bit because they're not spiritually wise, but why so many Christians?

 Proverbs 11:2 says that when pride comes, then comes shame. But with the lowly comes wisdom. Shouldn't Christians understand that?
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Melanie on February 10, 2019, 02:42:56 AM
So all in all can I glorify God with piercings...you bet I can. If you walked up to a troubled Teen on the street and started telling them how wonderful God is and you look like a dork(not saying you do lol but to kids most adults are boring and are dorks) and I walked up to him looking like I do with my piercings and told him about God, which do you think he would listen to? A dorky boring person or someone that looks like they aren't as boring as people think Christians have to be?

When I read this, I couldn't help but think that this is one of the worst analogies I've ever heard. That someone drawn of God is more likely to listen to someone with piercings and Tattoos, than to someone without them? I don't believe that.

First, there is no evidence of that.
Second, when I became saved I was looking for something different, not something the same.
Third, Christians are supposed to be different.
Fourth, God tells us that it is he who draws people to him, not our dress, appearance or our tattoos.

So I think Tasha was looking at this strictly from a humanistic point of view, and not from a biblical perspective. We don't have to become like the world in order to draw the world to Christ. That seems to be the gist of what she was saying. I believe rather than help, that would be counterproductive.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Tony Warren on February 10, 2019, 12:33:53 PM
>>>
God does not care if we dress nice, have nice things and adorn ourselves as long as what is in our heart is pure.
<<<

Just an additional thought since we're here, obviously this is incorrect because God's word takes a very different view, and in fact just the opposite view. If God didn't care how we adorn ourselves, He would not have inspired it written that we take care how we adorn ourselves.

1st Timothy 2:9-10

1st Peter 3:3-5

Note how it speaks of how the Holy Women of old adorned themselves modestly, and not like the world. So while some may think it unimportant the outward adorning, clearly God thinks otherwise and connects it to holiness, Godly modesty and how this illustrates the true "spiritual" adorning of gold on the body.


Quote
>>>
Noone can judge who is just and who is not except for God himself...
<<<

And God judges what is just and unjust by His Holy word, not by anyone's feelings, ideas about conventions, the latest craze, trends, fashions, customs, or personal opinions about the beauty or magnetism of tattoos, nose rings or tongue piercings.

Luke 21:5-6

Our bodies are built up collectively (1st Peter 2:5) the Holy Temple of God, and in righteousness let it be adorned with spiritual gifts more precious than gold and silver. Not with gaudy or worldly tattoos or other vain and superficial things unto no profit--lest we, like the house before us, become the stones that one day will be thrown down. Selah.


Quote
>>>
and so far...looks like God has stated very clearly that piercings do not make you any less Christian.
<<<

I note that no one said that piercings or tattoos make anyone less Christian. I know there are many Godly Christians who have a tattoo or who have piercings, but we're not talking about anyone's salvation. That's not the question at hand. Rather, that is a distraction from the question at hand, which is "Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?"  I believe from the scriptures that they should not, in part because we are "set apart" a different, unique, special, peculiar, chosen acquisition and example. We are not to give an uncertain or confused appearance. God's word says we shouldn't even give an "appearance" of evil. That's what being a conscientious Christian means. As a Christian, I wouldn't sit in a bar drinking every night to "allegedly" witness more effectively to alcoholics. No one would dress like a prostitute and stand on a corner in order to more effectively witness to Prostitutes. So the premise is fatally flawed and is actually a convenient excuse to be like the world. Even though we must live in the world, we are not to be "of the world." We are not to be drawn to the exact same sensual characteristics, holding to the exact same trends, part of the exact same customs, appearances, markings and mindset. We are set apart "from" them as a holy and "diverse" people unto the Lord. A separated people who are (or should be) clearly "distinct" from the world.

Today's Christian doesn't want/desire to be separate from the world, but to justify living as close to the world as possible while still taking on the name of Christ. That includes in its immodesty, in speech, in dress, in lifestyles and in adorning the body to be seen and so on and so forth. So much so that no one can even tell the difference anymore. And if any faithful Christian happens to stand up and say "wait, what's wrong with this picture," they're called attackers, judgmental, unloving and just plain mean. I don't buy that. As in the days of old, truth is no longer acceptable and Godly judgment looked upon as legalistic and wrong.

Isaiah 59:14-15

Thus saith the Preacher, there is no new thing under the sun. Everything that is, has been before. And this attitude toward pagan practices, behaviors and conventions is no exception.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Apostolic on December 22, 2019, 01:45:43 AM
Wrong! Paganism is not a good reason not to have Tattoos. Because we're not pagans. You're mixing apples and oranges.

Isaiah 58:6 "Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?"

Don't try and bring us back under the yoke of bondage. You don't believe in literal dreams, visions and miracles, but you want to believe in literal markings on the skin. How selective.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Robert Powell on December 22, 2019, 02:45:38 AM
You're mixing apples and oranges.

Did you even read his article. You may disagree with his conclusions, but it is hardly mixing apples and oranges.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Tony Warren on December 22, 2019, 07:59:29 AM
>>>
Wrong! Paganism is not a good reason not to have Tattoos.
<<<

I disagree. Actaually Paganism is the "perfect" reason not to get tattoos. By not getting Tattoos sets us "apart" from the godless, pagans, infidels, apostates, heathens, whatever you choose to call unbelievers.

Before you make a comment like that you should search the Scriptures to find out just "why" the Lord had so many things that He commanded the children of Israel not to mimic of those heathen nations around them. The "reason" why they were not to do as the Pagans did was because they were to be a people "set apart" from them. In other words, they were not to be like them but distinctively different. This is something that Christians today who are so mixed with the world have forgotten. Friendship with the world is enmity with God.  You can't want to be just like the world and totally different from the world. It's an either/or situation.

But I've already given my reasons in that article so no need to rehash them in this post.


Quote
>>>
Because we're not pagans.
<<<

Whether or not the church today is to a large degree "not pagan" or carnal is in my view debatable. Since most are so head deep into the world that it's hard to tell the difference. It use to be you'd know they are Christians by their fruits, now the only way you know (suspect they might be) is if they tell you.

To many professing Christians the phrase "set apart" now seems to means only when they are in a church building, and not set apart as a truly a peculiar (different, uncommon, distinct, or special) people as God intended. Truly where is the distinctive? ...that one goes to church or says "Lord, Lord?"  If we say we are Christians and yet do all the same things that non-believers do, are we not yet pagan? Are we not yet carnal?

Revelation 3:1

Here God does not see this church as a man may perceive it, because man places so much onus on the fact that he or someone calls themselves "of Christ," He can't see the tree for the forest. In God's eyes, He pronounces this church as just with the name of life but is actually dead. You see, pagan or unbeliever is in the eyes of the beholder.


Quote
>>>
You're mixing apples and oranges.
<<<

You are entitled to your opinion, but I really don't believe so. To borrow a quote:

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

...even if it calls itself a sparrow. Personally, I don't want to be associated with acting just like the world. Of course, I'm not saying people with tattoos are not saved or can't be saved, as that would not only be unbiblical but foolish of me. I'm saying, as a Christian set apart from the world, I would never get a tattoo because it represents something for me that I don't want to be associated with. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. God ordered the children of Israel not to do certain things as heathen cuttings and markings "because" the heathen around them did those things, not because inherently a mark on someone was sin. 

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Betty on December 24, 2019, 06:46:19 AM

Everyone has tattoos these days. It's so silly to say that you're against tattoos. So many Christians have tattoos and they find nothing in scripture forbidding it. When you talked about tight dresses I let it slide because some people are just prudes, but this idea is beyond legalistic. There is no prohibition in the bible against Tattoos. Furthermore, it's really not your place to tell women their blouse is too tight. Keep your eyes away from that area and you'll have no problem.  )S_Confused(
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Tony Warren on December 25, 2019, 03:35:46 AM
>>>
Everyone has tattoos these days.
<<<

Everyone? Do I count? The fact is, there are more people without Tattoos than with them. Even if what you said was true, numbers don't make something either right or wrong in God's eyes. i.e., the world is immoral. Does that mean that Christians can't be against immorality?


Quote
>>>
It's so silly to say that you're against tattoos.
<<<

No sillier than my saying I'm against women wearing string Bikinis in public or men wearing speedos.


Quote
>>>
So many Christians have tattoos and they find nothing in scripture forbidding it.
<<<

This is true. Likewise, so many Christians lie, have women pastors, get divorced, justify sin, have premarital sex, and they find nothing in scripture forbidding it. ...or so they say. What does that prove? I mean besides that "a tree is known by its fruits?"


Quote
>>>
When you talked about tight dresses I let it slide because some people are just prudes, but this idea is beyond legalistic.
<<<

You're using the words prude and legalistic in a way that it implies something wrong. In other words, where prude is used in place of being conscionable or having some morality, and here legalistic is used in place of having respect unto God's laws. If that is what you mean then "I'm guilty as charged."


Quote
>>>
There is no prohibition in the bible against Tattoos.
<<<

There's also no prohibition in the Bible against child pornography. ...except that there is. You won't find those exact words there, but one only has to receive the whole counsel of God in the mind and wisdom of Christ.


Quote
>>>
Furthermore, it's really not your place to tell women their blouse is too tight.
<<<

OK!  Is it God's place? Or should people do what seems right in their own eyes, ignoring His counsel? Here again we have the age-old question of will.


Quote
>>>
Keep your eyes away from that area and you'll have no problem.  )S_Confused(
<<<

Here's the question. Is the deceived the only guilty party in God's eyes, or is the deceiver guilty as well? Selah.

Don't be confused, use God's law rather than your own.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Sojourner on December 26, 2019, 12:39:10 AM
Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?

Should Christians get tattoos on their face, get giant rings in their nose, eyebrows, tongue, or wear mini skirts, make totem poles, get divorced, sell their daughters, take drugs, hold slaves, and all the other things that the world does just because it might be the "thing" or latest fad, or popular? I think Tony answered your question. We can be like the world or we can be set apart distinct from the world, a uncommon people. If you want to be like the world, no one is forcing you to comply with Christian distinctives. But this is how some Christians feel they should behave in the household of God. I find no fault with what Tony Said.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Mila Ostrovsky on December 26, 2019, 03:55:14 AM
Y
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: ZeroCool on January 02, 2020, 03:34:58 AM
I think Tony answered your question. We can be like the world or we can be set apart distinct from the world, a uncommon people. If you want to be like the world, no one is forcing you to comply with Christian distinctives. But this is how some Christians feel they should behave in the household of God. I find no fault with what Tony Said.

 )amen( Like Tony Said, some Christians want to live as close to the world as they can and still be called Christian. And some Christians like to live set apart from the world and as close to Christ as they can.

I wonder what Betty thinks God means when he says friendship with the world is enmity with God. Betty, can you please explain that for us. What is friendship with the world?

Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Betty on January 02, 2020, 11:12:11 AM

That is not cool Zero. There are too many nonsensical answers on this website. Do you know how many Christians in this country have tattoos?  And you want to condemn them all? Just to name a few famous Christians, there is Justin Beiber, Tim McGraw, Victoria Beckham, David Beckham, Colin Kaepernick, and so on. So what should they do? Conform to your bigotry against those with tattoos? Live and let live buddy.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Erik Diamond on January 02, 2020, 03:03:55 PM
Quote
There are too many nonsensical answers on this website.

Of course, you do not like what you read here since, based on your past posts here on MR, you have refused to receive the truth.  Despite Tony's article on Tattoos filled with Scripture, you have not offered anything to refute it WITH Scripture.  Just personal opionions and emotional reactions.   

Quote
Do you know how many Christians in this country have tattoos?

So?

Do you know how many Christians in this country has divorced their spouse despite their wedding vows before God?
Do you know how many Christians in this country has remarried someone else while their original spouse still lives?
Do you know how many Christians in this country has not raise their children Godly way?
Do you know how many Christians in this country has wear immodesty to draw attention with their flesh?
Do you know how many Christians in this country who are homosexuality, transgender, or in gender identity mess?
Do you know how many Christians in this country believe sin false doctrine of dispensationalism...and faith in Trump?
Do you know how many Christians in this country who supports women headship in the Church? 

And your point is, Betty?  Are you trying to remove the boundaries of the church with the world thinking God wants us to be happy, have equalities, and show love with tolerate those who sins against God? You think that you are being progressive, loving and compassionate, you SHALL stand NAKED before God and see your own shame, denial, and condition of the heart.

Tattoo is not something fad or for good intentions that Christians should have, "thinking" is right in our eyes, is NO EXCUSE for DISOBEDIENCE. Remember about the man who grabbed the Ark when the Oxen stumbled, 1st Chronicles 13:9-10. 

The sins of the unfaithful church has reached into heaven...and many professed Christians refuse to knowledge it becasue of their blindness and disobedience.

Sign of the times.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Mark on January 02, 2020, 06:04:02 PM
Rev 18:2,6,8
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
6 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Yes indeed, signs of the times.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Betty on May 10, 2020, 12:42:05 PM
It's so silly to say that you're against tattoos.
<<<[/size][/color]

No sillier than my saying I'm against women wearing string Bikinis in public or men wearing speedos.

It's none of your business if a woman has a bikini on, a woman has tattoos on her body, or a man wears a speedo. Keep your eyes away from areas they shouldn't be and don't be judgemental.

Matthew 18:9 (TLB)
"And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. Better to enter heaven with one eye than to be in hell with two."

If you are offended by Tattoos, don't look at the. If you are offended by bikini-clad women, turn away from them. If you are offended by speedo wearing men, stop looking at them. Those are all your problems.


 
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Melanie on May 15, 2020, 03:31:09 AM
It's so silly to say that you're against tattoos.
<<<[/size][/color]

No sillier than my saying I'm against women wearing string Bikinis in public or men wearing speedos.

It's none of your business if a woman has a bikini on, a woman has tattoos on her body, or a man wears a speedo. Keep your eyes away from areas they shouldn't be and don't be judgemental.

It's every Christian's business if Christian women act in an immoral manner, and to say it is not, just shows how far the Christian church has fallen. They're starting to use the same language as the unsaved do, wear the same clothes as the unsaved do, and walk in the flesh as the unsaved do. It's so incredibly naive to say just don't look at something if you don't like it. Can we have naked people walk in public and say, just don't look at her if you don't like it? That's incredibly stupid.

Tattoos are a sign of the times, and I don't mean for the good. You're claiming that tattoos are just the result of a more progressive society, but that's not progress, it's decline. This growth of Americans getting tattoos all over themselves is a move back to primitive times, not a move to better things. Even in places like Japan that has, for the most part, managed to keep this type decline out of their country for so long is falling to modern pressure. Look at this video and tell me it's not a sign of social decline. It's not a good and moral thing, it's the start of the downfall of society even apart from Christianity. Because morality is in decline in every country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzjwc6uo6rE&t=622s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzjwc6uo6rE&t=622s)





Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Rose on May 15, 2020, 11:15:34 AM
Melanie, the passages in the Old Testament against tattoos and cuttings in the skin no longer applies to us because it is Old Testament law, and thus not for Christians. We are under New Testament grace.

As for Japan, they have hardly any Christians so grace is immaterial to them or their way of thinking.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Erik Diamond on May 15, 2020, 02:16:24 PM
Quote from: Rose
Melanie, the passages in the Old Testament against tattoos and cuttings in the skin no longer applies to us because it is Old Testament law, and thus not for Christians. We are under New Testament grace.

Really?

Okay, so the prohibitions against incest in Leviticus 18:8-18 and 20:11:21, Deuteronomy, etc. does not apply to us in New Testament? Does that means Christians are allowed to have incest today? No?

Likewise with Tattoo. Tattoos are NOT a Christian activity no matter how much justification you might come up with.  It is an abnormal, unseemly and unnatural practice for Christians. Branding ourselves with markings or tattoos is to pervert and deface the body that God has already defined as "HIS" Holy Temple. Didn't you read the Scripture?

1st Corinthians 6:19-20Since our bodies are the New Testament Temple of the Lord, we should NOT mark or disfigure it as if we could paint graffiti on the stones of a church buildings!  Won't our bodies of greater important a witness than a church building?  Do you think a Godly man would want to marries a professed Chrstian woman who do not think there is anything wrong with her "tramp stamp" on her lower-back?  What kind of testimony does her body mean to him?  Glory to God?  Listen, your body belongs to the Lord, do you honestly think He gave you the permission to put markings on your body because after all we are under grace and we can do whatever we want with our body, right?  Do you think we are allowed to abuse our bodies with sexuality immoralities, abortion of the child inside you, drug, smoking, gluttony, cursings that comes out of our mouths, while knowing that Christ rules in our bodies, the temple of the Lord?

Think again!
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Mark on May 15, 2020, 06:53:30 PM
Melanie, the passages in the Old Testament against tattoos and cuttings in the skin no longer applies to us because it is Old Testament law, and thus not for Christians. We are under New Testament grace.

As for Japan, they have hardly any Christians so grace is immaterial to them or their way of thinking.
Rose you do err in your doctrine, the old covenant law is not abolished and done away for the Christian, itís kept in Christ. Remember his Word.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Tony Warren on May 17, 2020, 12:56:26 PM
>>>
Melanie, the passages in the Old Testament against tattoos and cuttings in the skin no longer applies to us because it is Old Testament law, and thus not for Christians.
<<<

Erik and Mark have made some good points that you should consider. You should also understand that the Laws against Tattoos weren't instituted to protect your skin from drawings, it was instituted so that you know to make a difference between you as the children of God, and the pagan people who don't know God. People get all hung up on "it's all about grace, or it's unseemly, or it only applies if you do it for the dead, or it's just for the Old Testament, etc."  They're missing the whole point. It was instituted because God wants His people to be a distinct, holy, separated people. In spirit, dress, presence, and outward form that we don't appear as the world does. That law of distinction in being set apart still stands. Unfortunately, no one seems to care anymore.

As has been stated, is the prohibitions against incest abolished because we are under New Testament grace? God forbid. The Old Testament law against Homosexuality still applies in the New Testament, doesn't it? Or is that law destroyed n grace also? So we see that the laws are still for Christians, and for everyone else. The laws were not destroyed because Christ brought grace, they were fulfilled (satisfied) in Christ's work on the cross. Thus a Homosexual is still under the wrath of God--unless he has found Christ. Then and only then is he not under that law anymore, "not" because that law was abolished, but because that law was fulfilled in the work of Christ. In other words, it was finished/completed in Christ so that its wages/penalty doesn't exist for that particular person. In that way only the law doesn't apply to them because in God's eyes they are seen as perfect and sinless before Him. That doesn't mean we sin because we have abundant grace.

Romans 6:15

Think about it. How could we sin (a violation of the law) in that instance "if" the law was destroyed or sin (violation of law) no longer existed?  Will we sin or violate God's "laws" that don't really exist anymore because grace abounds? Or s Spirit-led saints will we "not sin" because we have the Spirit of obedience? God forbid we break God's law because we are under grace. On the contrary, we are actually a new creature/creation in Christ who (of His Spirit) now have an earnest desire to "keep" the law.

Proverbs 28:4-5

The prohibition of getting tattoos, cuttings, etc., were instituted of God to "separate" the customs of God's people from those of the people of the world. Of course, in our day God's people are so intent on getting as close to "identical to the world" as they can. And yet they still want to be seen as God's separated, set-apart, holy People. But it's a contradiction. The point of Christianity is not to "blend in" as like-minded but to "stand out" as diverse or as a different people. You cannot be different if you envy the wicked so much that you are unmarried and sexually active just like they are. Or you are divorcing just like the unsaved are. Or tattooing like the unsaved, dressing like the unsaved, talking, dancing, and doing everything else the unsaved come up with. Where then is the difference? There is none and you are lying to yourself if you believe that there is. In such instances, you show that you have the same carnal will of the natural man that is ruled by the flesh.

1st Corinthians 14:8
James 4:4-5

If we Christians give an uncertain sound where we are visually all over the place, non-distinctive, having no different appearance, definite doctrines, respect for law, or moral values, then we're no different than the world is. No wonder we want Tattoos, divorce, short dresses, spikes in our tongues and rings in our noses. That should not be because we are ordained to be peculiar or a different people than those of the world. In other words, ours should be a definitive sound, a lifestyle that is diverse from that of the world. Not friendship or agreement with the world, but a distinction as a "special" people set apart from the world. That's what the whole "don't be yoked together with unbelievers" is all about. Distinction. And that's what is missing with today's unfaithful Christians. A lack of understanding of what "set-apart" actually entails.

Deuteronomy 14:2

God'speople are a "peculiar" people, meaning a shut up or separated people, a special traesure that is not to be like any other people. The unfaithful interpret this to mean we can dress, act, dance, be unlawful, just like the world. Only use Christ's name claiming grace. Not true. We have been chosen and called out of the darkness of the world into God's marvelous light and made a chosen family or generation (1st Peter 2:9). There are only two families, the generation of Satan who are children of darkness, and the generation of Christ who are children of light. These two families are at enmity one with another, not in agreement. What agreement has light with darkness. We are special people and we should appear, act, and dress the part.


Quote
>>>
We are under New Testament grace.
<<<

It's already been testified:

Matthew 5:16-18

New Testament Grace is the fulfillment of the law in Christ Jesus, not the destruction of it. Are we now free to violate the Old Testament law against murder because we are under grace? Not at all, the law stands, but the price has been paid in Christ's blood. We keep the law of the sacrificial lamb in the eternal sacrifice of Christ, the law of the sabbath of rest in Christ Jesus, the law of feasts, of going up to Jerusalem three times a year, the law of Passover, the law of water ablutions, etc. etc., all in Christ Jesus. If we were free to violate God's Old Testament laws, we could with clear conscience steal, murder, marry siblings, be homosexual, and yes, get tattoos, etc., because these are all Old Testament laws. But the fact of truth is, all these laws illustrate some moral principle that cannot simply be cast aside because they existed in the Old Testament. They had the "ritual" law of ablutions in the Old Testament, and although we no longer physically do many of those washings, what they "represented" was our washing in Christ, which still must be kept or else we (anyone not washed) are still unclean according to the Old Testament law of God, which stands. i.e., the law of washing still stands because without washing all are unclean according to that law.


Quote
>>>
As for Japan, they have hardly any Christians so grace is immaterial to them or their way of thinking.
<<<

Rose, the gospel of truth is not "immaterial" to anyone, much less those in dire need of it. To write off a nation simply because there are few Christians there is to have departed from the love of God in forsaking the great commission. The First command is to love God and the second like unto it--that we love our neighbor as ourselves. If we abandon that agape calling, we might as well be as stars fallen from their former estate in heaven. Evangelism or spreading the gospel to the world is the labor of all faithful Christians. If we have no desire to do that, then how are we representative lights of Christ? To the star of Ephesus God warns:

Revelation 2:5

We will be as a fallen star that is no longer of the church of God if we do not do the first works of the church.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: Should Christians Get Tattoos and Body Piercings?
Post by: Apostolic on May 18, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
Should Christians get tattoos on their face, get giant rings in their nose, eyebrows, tongue, or wear mini skirts,

Christians can do anything they like because they have liberty and are not under the law. They are under grace. That is why you don't have to sacrifice a sheep anymore. If Tony is under law, why isn't he sacrificing sheep and keeping the Passover? And don't give me any of that "we are keeping it" nonsense. You aren't keeping those laws.