The Mountain Retreat

Biblical Discussions => Apologetics => Topic started by: Trotter on December 28, 2004, 06:00:12 PM

Title: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Trotter on December 28, 2004, 06:00:12 PM

I've been checking in this forum the last couple of days and I'm just wondering why no one has even bothered to comment on the death toll from the tsunamis where 44,000 people have died so far? Do you think it has nothing to do with christianity, it's not relevant, is inappropriate to talk about, or are you just not moved by it one way or the other at all? I thought at least someone would comment that it's God's work, his providence, his judgment, or at least something? Have we gotten so cold as christians that we don't even have something to say (anything at all) about an international tragedy? Just curious why christians are pretending like nothing has happened? I don't mean to be critical, I am honestly seeking reasons why we think this isn't worth commenting on. Or that it's not important? Shouldn't we use this as a platform for the gospel? What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: John on December 28, 2004, 08:57:33 PM
My thoughts are that this tsunami killed people that God had appointed to die. It is highly doubtful that many were Christians. So the real tragedy is not so much that a lot of people died, but that because of sin a great many people will awake to stand for judgment and spend an eternity in hell. Putting this in context, no one is happy that men, women, and children die. But death is only the beginning of woes, it is the second death that looms large, and on this forum it and many other realities are discussed.

By the way, I used to do tropical cyclone prediction and storm intensity at a centralized facility. We'd see on satellite enhanced imagery an extremely powerful typhoon slowly heading up the Bay of Bengal toward populated coastal areas of India. Because the government believes in "karma" and fate, they do not notify their citizens to flee. Their false religion tells them if they are to die then there is nothing that can be done to change the outcome. Fatalism causes the death of tens of thousands each year where many lives could have been saved. Do you see the folly of sin and the depravity of man? Even worse is not to see the ultimate end of man -- God's eternal wrath.

Ecclesiastes 1:13-14
13  And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.
14  I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.




Apart from a life in Christ that leads to eternal life, the existence of man is to live for a moment under the curse of sin and suffer everlasting punishment. This pales a tsunami by way of contrast.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


john
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: midas on December 28, 2004, 10:51:42 PM
Quote
Shouldn't we use this as a platform for the gospel?

I don't mean to be critical, and since you used the word "we" why didn't you post something about tsunami on this web site until today. Somebody has to go first ...

As for me I primarily use this forum to learn about different doctrines and scripture meaning.

World tragidies, earthquakes, wild weather, global turmoil, famine, droughts, plagues, Satanism, the economy, volcanoes, murders, etc, everyday there are major events on the news that are sad and devastating ...

To me the people on this forum are careing and warm hearted Christians ...  I believe this forum specializes on the meanings of scriptures and true doctrines and rarely on world events and how they relate to the bible ... Just a prefernce as what is discussed and not disrespectful to the topic you or others may be personally interested in. It's pretty consistant here  ... World news is rarely discussed.

If world news is an interest of yours and you which to start a discussion on a specific topic and how it relates to the bible, feel free to start one ...

If you wish, you could ask Tony Warren to start a new discussion topic titled World News and How It Realtes to the Bible ... I'm not asking for it however maybe others are interested in it ....
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: judykanova on December 29, 2004, 04:01:41 AM
Trotter,

Both john and Midas have expressed what I believe most here feel about this tragic event.  I would but add these comments.

It's those still living, (not the dead whose fates are 'sealed'), who should most concern us during the aftermath of such catastrophic events.  Some may be prompted to consider their life, the brevity of it, the forces of nature which God alone established and controls, and the final 'judgement'  against which these natural disasters can't even compare in severity and duration.

It is a sad but true commentary on how desparately wicked are the hearts of men who will only seek the Lord when confronted with tragedy.  Tragedy can remind us like none else, of just how vulnerable we really are, and how desparately we are in need of a Savior.   Such is the perverseness the our fleshly nature, that the Lord often has to bring us low to get our attention -- at times bringing us literally down on our knees seeking mercy, help and/or repentance.  If we're lucky,  the Lord's Spirit and Grace will enable us to learn from such events and foster a greater dependency on God.  Unlike those 'stiff-necked' Israelites who despite their first-hand witnessing of God's mighty wrath against Pharoah and Egypt, dared to 'murmur' and rebel against the Lord, thereby bringing upon themselves the wrath of God and perishing in the wilderness.

Deu 9:6-7
6  Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD.


There seems to be an awesome 'balance' (for lack of a better word) between the greatness of God's wrath, and His boundless love and mercy, which is reflected in Scripture and can be observed in everyday life & tragedy.  Albeit some attempt to downplay or remain ignorant to this aspect of God's sovereignty, and focus only on His love.  Some even become embittered by such events and dare to question God -- unlike Job who uttered the simple truth that it is God who grants life in the first place, and who takes it away according to His divine purposes.

Job 1:19-22
19  And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
20  Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
21  And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
22  In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.  

Although such things may be difficult to understand in this ever changing and ever corrupt world,  we can thank God that He remains constant, Faithful, True, and perfectly Just, and affords us our only sure Hope.

Act 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust

Rom 12:12 
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

judy
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Shirley on December 29, 2004, 09:05:00 AM
I notice this avoidance of the issue also. Judy's response seems to be the most compassionate. I have to ask if Christianity is any longer a living force in the world for compassion, both for the physically needy and the spiritual needy? It seems so many christians attitude today just seems really cold. Especially reformers who seem to take the position that they don't need to show concern, or even evangelize, because the elect will be saved anyway if it's God's will. While I don't argue with that, God works out his will through our efforts.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

When I see disasters and tragedies I think what a marvelous opportunity to speak on the providence of God and the fleeting nature of life on this earth. Tragedy is a great opportunity to preach on everyone's need for a saviour. Unfortunately, many christians seem to take the attitude that if it's God's will, then we don't worry about it or try to help either spiritually or physically or with aid. Besides for the Christian Reformed World Relief Committee, I don't know of any other reformed group that is compassionate about these types of things.

I know that this is ultimately God's judgments and all in the providence of God, but I also question this perceived indifference by christians to this monumental tragedy in this week's Tsunamis. At first I thought it might be because it's not a biblical issue. But then I realized, this is a biblical issue, and a salvation issue. These people of the world need spiritual help, and they don't get it.

 Mt 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 Ac 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

God wants us to spread the gospel, not smirk at how God judged these people when disaters befall them. I'm beginning to think that some christians, and particularly reformed christians, are just aloof and show none of the compassion for others that Christ showed for them. When we see all this calamity and disaster around us, that's when people most ask, "why?" As christians we should seek to comfort them through the gospel, seek oportunity to explain God's vision, and point these souls in the direction of the gospel. I hear none of that, and what I heard on another forum is that they were all heathen and were judged. As you say, here it's almost as if everyone is oblivious to this disater, or at least attempting to appear so. 

 Mt 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

This is the equivolent of seeing the battered man on the side of the road, and crossing to walk on the other side. Not as the good samaritan. There are all kinds of ministering, but I see, or rather feel, a lack of compassion by some christians.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Diane Moody on December 29, 2004, 04:12:26 PM
At last count, the death toll now tops 80,000 people dead and it's sure to rise.

http://www.backtothebible.org/lifeissues/faith/why_does_god_allow_suffering.html

This link may help those who are struggling with why God would allow this.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Shirley on December 29, 2004, 05:49:53 PM

Thanks Diane,
  At least you show a concern that some people may need help coping with situations like this. This is what I think Trooter was expecting from Christians in the first place. Some help to those who are less fortunate and who don't know the gospel as we do.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Daniel on December 30, 2004, 11:51:47 AM
We must remember this world is passing away, this is not our home.  Sometimes I forget that, and I get too caught up in this world. I must rejoice in the Lord always, I say again rejoice.
     As for spreading the Gospel.  I think president Bush (who says he is a born again christain) has a great opportunity  to spread the Gospel. So what does he do, he starts wars.
     We must remember rejoice in the Lord always.
                                                                         Dan
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Chris on December 30, 2004, 12:31:36 PM
I don't think the irony is lost on anyone that the three most christian, compassionate and biblical responses to date have come from women (Diane, Judy, Shirley). Even though Christ said to men, feed my sheep, men tend to have more of the "don't think about the world" because it will soon be over type responses, while the women have more of the, "It's an opportunity for the gospel and to explain why God does things" attitude.

Interesting. I tend to think the women have the more christian attitude. Just because we are realistic doesn't mean we have to be cold and incompassionate.

Tony's FAQ, and Christian Answers Net often gives some of the most thoughtful yet biblical responses.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t023.html

No human tragedy that has ever occurred is unforeseen or not in God's divine providence. There are no people who have died an untimely death, because when people die, it is their time to die. But from our perspective, we should approach these tragedies as firtule ground to bring the compassion of the gospel rather than a uncompassionate quip about how they all deserved it (as if we don't) or how they are being judged for sin. For sure God has his reasons, but those reasons may be for the benefit of the living. Something for men to think about rather tha merely implying we should not get caught up in compassion for the world.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Oneil on January 01, 2005, 04:42:31 PM
I don't think the irony is lost on anyone that the three most christian, compassionate and biblical responses to date have come from women (Diane, Judy, Shirley). Even though Christ said to men, feed my sheep, men tend to have more of the "don't think about the world" because it will soon be over type responses, while the women have more of the, "It's an opportunity for the gospel and to explain why God does things" attitude.

That's probably a lot truer than men would want to admit. At least from what I've heard. By the way, the death toll is past 150, 000 now which makes it the biggest disaster I've ever seen in my lifetime. I think it merits a comment or two from Christians.

I read other boards and I hear so many people asking why would God dso such a thing. I try to help them understand that it's Christ that is the only answer to all these questions of why, and how, and what now. And they can't understand how I can say that if just 5 people turn to Christ because of this disaster, then it's all been worth it.

We don't know what is God's plan in how he draws some to salvation, but we hope and pray that some will cast their burdens upon him and find both true peace of mind, and rest for their souls.

Matthew 11:28-30
 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give
you rest.
 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in
heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
 
We think in times like these that our burdens are heavy, but that's only because we don't take them off our shoulders and lay them upon the Lord to carry. In him, we will find our rest, our answers, and our assurance. Like you, I wish other christians would be more proactive instead of reactive. Rather than send money to feed and clothe the people in india after this flood, send that same money to people to go spread the gospel to those people in India and Asia. Please tell me, when did Christianity become a non evangelizing religion? These are the questions that this disaster brings to my mind. Why are Muslims working tirelessly to spread their gospel all over the world while Christians sit content to go to Church and pass out sandwiches to the homeless?

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: John on January 02, 2005, 12:01:13 AM
Quote
I don't think the irony is lost on anyone that the three most Christian, compassionate and biblical responses to date have come from women.

You have made a false dichotomy between the post of men and women and between "compassionate biblical" responses versus supposed unloving and unbiblical responses. Neither of your assertions are true. Do you measure "compassion" by feelings and wringing of the hands? How have your supposed compassion made any difference in the lives of anyone?

The biblical response made here were done by both men and women, some more accurate than others. The biblical response should be that God raises up and God puts down, the whole world is His to do as He pleases.

Job 1:21-22
21  And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
22  In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.


There is no difference in how men or women approach this disaster -- they understand that God can do with His creation as He pleases. Both genders understand that the most significant and important effort these people need (or anyone needs) is to have the gospel preached. They know that true biblical compassion is in the desire that some might be saved from an even larger looming disaster yet to come -- Judgment Day and eternal damnation.

This is the biblical framework we should be operating under.


Quote
I tend to think the women have the more Christian attitude. Just because we are realistic doesn't mean we have to be cold and uncompassionate.


Cold and uncompassionate?  Women have the more Christian attitude??  You have a uncanny ability to state your opinions as if they were undeniable facts. None of these things are true. I have not seen anyone posting a cold and uncompassionate response concerning the tsunami disaster. Do you suppose that if you are a self-proclaimed "compassionate" that makes the rest of us cold and uncompassionate -- this is not a zero sum game. You can be as compassionate and realistic as you see fit, yet this does not diminishing the biblical truths that others have posted. Your supposed compassion does not invalidate Biblical truth, however Biblical truth may just invalidate your framework of compassion.   


Quote
Especially reformers who seem to take the position that they don't need to show concern, or even evangelize, because the elect will be saved anyway if it's God's will.

You are attacking a position that no one holds and nobody here believes. Just like saying woman are more compassionate, the statement above is unfounded and untrue. Suddenly reformers are not caring or wanting to evangelize? Why? Because they don't have your level of compassion?  Simply making wild statements doesn't make you more compassionate -- more irrational yes -- but not compassionate.


Quote
God wants us to spread the gospel, not smirk at how God judged these people when disasters befall them.

Here we go again. Somebody is smirking? Apparently, for some to elevate their compassion status they must disparage others. Are you now good because you declare everyone else to be bad. Your compassion is a bit too self-serving.


Quote
For sure God has his reasons, but those reasons may be for the benefit of the living. Something for men to think about rather than merely implying we should not get caught up in compassion for the world.

This whole man vs. woman, compassion vs. uncompassionate, caring vs. not caring is an erroneous and fabricated comparison apparently designed to elevate someone's sagging sense of self-worth. Someone is angry that this forum is not busily discussing the tsunami event and has decided to invent a straw man assertion to "prove" that Reformed Christian men are cold, unloving and don't care about anything or anyone, except perhaps, as some would have it, occasionally handing out sandwiches to the homeless.

Someone wanted Christians to make a few comments about the disaster, and a few Christians did -- with Bible verses. They related it back to the Bible and put it in context because that is what this forum is about. The remainder of the posts bemoaning the lack of caring here are self-serving attempts to demean Reformed Christians by spreading false allegations.

Most of these allegations are neither compassionate, nor biblical, nor worthwhile -- that is the true irony.

john
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: jsw on January 05, 2005, 01:15:48 AM
I just heard Franklin Graham try to answer the question....why did god let the tsnunami happen, doesnt he love everyone. Franklin underhandedly blamed it on the devil, not directly. Graham can never argue his way out of a corner with Larry King with any good doctrin.

God made the tnunami happen. God causes all things. in isiah 45 i think it says that God causes calamity.  God is love, just,,and soveriren, and we dont know why really ever.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: AllofGrace on January 05, 2005, 03:19:34 PM
Hi,

It always bothers me when I see people answering questions like this one, and in a desire to "protect God's righteousness", they diminish His sovereignty. I have even heard some say "God did not let this happen. The devil did this." Well, if the devil could do things that God does not allow, then God would not be sovereign. But we know from scripture that He is.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Psalm 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

I agree that we often do not understand why God allows such things. But then, that is the difference between the creature and the creator.

Grace and Peace,

Michael

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: John on January 05, 2005, 08:42:52 PM
Quote
why did god let the tsunami happen, doesn’t he love everyone.


Who can we blame for the tsunami?  The waves?  The ocean floor?  The gravitational pull of the moon? A destabilized earth that is cursed by God? The residual effects of the great flood?

Do we blame the cursed people who caused the world to be cursed? The man Adam who brought the curse upon all mankind? Or each and every person living who would have done exactly as Adam did?

I will not blame God for testing Adam or Satan for failing to remain faithful. Adam, you, or me, we all together would have failed the test too. Therefore, we caused God's perfect creation to be cursed. We caused the earth to become what it is: A place of hardship, suffering, and death.  This tsunami is a small reminder of the blame we each share as children of Adam. A larger overpowering reminder will be the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day.

And as is typical with Adam's seed, where nothing is new under the sun, the fallen human race looks around to assign blame and points the finger at Satan or God, rather than see who really is to blame.

Gen 3:12  And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. [Blaming God]

Gen 3:13  And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. [Blaming Satan]


Genesis 3:17-19
17  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18  Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Blame Adam, and then go look in the mirror.

john
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Susan on October 04, 2014, 06:51:59 PM
As I read about the prevalence of earthquakes, Floods, tsunamis and the lastest volcano eruptions that killed so many, I am struck by the fact that among nations, there are so few Christians in Japan. CXan it possibly be that God is sovereign over these calamities because of their lack of response to Christianity as other nations have responded? It just makes me wonder why there are so few Christians in Japan, and why are so opposed to Christianity. In fact, they say Japan is one of the most secular nations of the world. Why? And is there any correlation you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan

I also looked up the above link which was also interesting.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Frank Mortimer on October 05, 2014, 07:11:32 AM

I would say that it is probably because they have such a long standing sense of family and tradition and so hold more to the old ways and tend not to trust outsiders. Their tradition is generally the Shinbutsu shūgō mostly consisting of Buddhism and Kami, but generally no real Religion at all. Which really seems strange to me as most believe in souls or spirits existing even in Dolls, or of a type of reincarnation. It's difficult to explain.

Do I think their unbelief results in them having more troubles and calamities? I can't really say yes or no. It does seem odd sometimes but on the other hand, it could be just coincidence. These days, a lot of people are opposed to any religion as somehow they blame all the problems of the world on religion, money or leaders.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Wcjciech Semkowski on October 06, 2014, 10:06:59 AM
Quote
Why are there so few Christians in Japan?

For the same reason that there are so few Christians in Israel, Saudi Arabia, China, Denmark and many other countries. It's hard to make inroads in a closed society that frowns on, and is suspicious of outsiders and new traditions, and have a great pride in their own heritage. Pride cometh before a fall. Israel was proud of their heritage and thought that made them something, it cost them also.

 Psalms 10:4 "The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts."

This is the expression of self-conceit and the pride of nationalism. The antitype ofthe humble and open minded.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformed Baptist on October 06, 2014, 05:55:44 PM
Interesting. I didn't realize that Christians were so scarce in Japan. For Instance, there are a lot of Christians in the Muslim country of Turkey, so this surprises me that there are not a lot in Japan. You would think there would be more in Japan.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on October 06, 2014, 08:39:53 PM
Psalms 10:4 "The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts."

This is the expression of self-conceit and the pride of nationalism. The antitype of the humble and open minded.

So you're saying that nationalism is sin? Or that because Japanese like to marry Japanese and protect their heritage, that makes them prideful and against Christianity? I don't think that is true. On what basis do you make that claim?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Margaret on December 16, 2014, 12:10:52 PM
Interesting. I didn't realize that Christians were so scarce in Japan. For Instance, there are a lot of Christians in the Muslim country of Turkey, so this surprises me that there are not a lot in Japan. You would think there would be more in Japan.

Hello fellow Christians. Newbe here. I thought I'd chime in on this subject since its one that has fascinated me and a lot of other Christians as well. It is true that Japan is one of the least evangelized nations in the world, but I think it's less cultural as it is a lack of being given knowledge of Christianity. The Japanese unfortunately hold to a belief that no view should be taken to be absolute. So they practice what is called "shinbutsuju shugo", which allows them to be open to all religions as acceptable, and less inclined to accepting one religion as being the truth. This allows them to accept Japan's popular religions of Shinto, Buddhism and Confucianism to co-exist without strife, but are ignorant of Christianity because they think it places restraints, when it truly frees. And since Christianity boasts it is the only true religion and there is only one God, they collectively do not gravitate to it and so don't really know what true Christianity teaches. There have actually been studies on why Japan has so few Christians. It's a sad state of affairs in Japan as far as Christianity goes, since there was such a great opportunity to witness following War War II that Christians never took advantage of. It's a shame that Western faithful Christians have not really been evangelical for some time now, and that's part of the reason no real growth of Christianity has occurred in Japan.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Kevin Wright on December 16, 2014, 01:54:46 PM
Welcome Margaret, I'm relatively new myself. I like your post and actually I wasn't even aware that there were not a lot of Japanese Christians until I read this thread and then Googled it. I guess it's difficult to break paganist history that is so deeply rooted.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: SavedByGrace on December 16, 2014, 02:13:43 PM
Welcome Margaret,

May I welcome you to Mountain Retreat.  I do hope that you will enjoy your stay here. 

I have lived in Japan for 10 years, but had no idea of religion while I was there.  I believe that your analysis of Japan is very correct.  The existence of true Christianity is basically non-existent. After returning to the U.S. in 1974, I became very interested in the things of God, but I never returned to Japan.  I felt sure that with my Japanese language skills that if I was to become a Christian, surely I would have to return to Japan as a missionary. Instead God grabbed my heart and took me to Russia (of all places) instead.  I still follow the news and events of Japan, but my time of travel has passed.  I still pray for Japan and have many old friends there.  I pray that God will raise up someone to do a mighty work there.

May God bless you and keep you,

Bill & June
Billnjune.patton@gmail.com
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: John on December 16, 2014, 08:58:30 PM
For further reading ...

http://www.projectjapan.org/pj/Article/Entries/2013/8/16_Why_Is_Christianity_Not_Widely_Believed_in_Japan.html (http://www.projectjapan.org/pj/Article/Entries/2013/8/16_Why_Is_Christianity_Not_Widely_Believed_in_Japan.html)
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Big Ben on December 17, 2014, 01:58:43 AM
For one thing, the Japanese idea of oneness, their spiritualism, their pride and their religious concepts of harmony, are all contradictory to Christianity, and so it should be no surprise to anyone that there are few Japanese Christians. It's probably one of the few industrialized countries where you can generalize of their reprobation specifically because there are so few Christians.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Why+are+there+so+few+Christians+in+Japan&hl=en&gbv=2&oq=Why+are+there+so+few+Christians+in+Japan

But have no tears, for if God wanted a great election from Japan, there would be one. Agree?

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Stan Pat on December 17, 2014, 03:41:12 AM
But have no tears, for if God wanted a great election from Japan, there would be one. Agree?


I would say yes, yes and no. Yes, we should have tears for them because we should mourn for all God's creation. And there but for the grace of God go I. And Yes, I agree that if God wanted a great election and outpouring of the spirit in Japan, there would be one. God's will is done.  But No, that doesn't mean Christians should either have a defeatist attitude towards them, nor that we shouldn't seek to evangelize the people there. Right up until the end.

 Mark 13:10
 "And the gospel must first be published among all nations".

That command to preach the gospel to all nations has not been abrogated.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Peng Bao on December 17, 2014, 11:12:05 AM
I'm from China, but have worked in Japan and our people and the Japanese have a long standing cultural feud going that has stood between any evangelism. But lately, it seems to be thawing. While Christians view the world in terms of good and evil, God and Satan, right and wrong, the Japanese view it much differently than people do in the west. They lean toward supernaturalism and are deeply rooted in old pagan spiritualisms. In fact, so much that they even believe the dolls that they traditionally give their children have souls. They take them out and set them up once a year and then put them away until another year. So when Christians reject such views and such traditions as being contrary to God's laws (and rightly so), the Japanese react to these truths very poorly and see it as an attack on their culture rather than something setting them free.

Also, many believe in gods (plural) but only in terms of getting favors or pleasing them with rituals or burning incense or giving thanks. Reincarnation is another belief that contradicts the Christian doctrines that were preached by missionaries, so it's just one thing on top of another that pulls them away from Christ. If you are familiar with their culture, you could probably make inroads. But to just come from the west preaching Christ without knowing their customs has been a hard sell. Even for other Asians.

Of course, with God all things are possible.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Kevin Wright on December 17, 2014, 03:22:11 PM
It is strange though. You would think that with their intellect, at least some of them (in numbers) would be interested, if even for the logic of Christianity and the harmony of it.  :thinker:
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Dryfus on December 19, 2014, 11:56:18 AM
The Japanese are so full of themselves, God resists them.  The Japanese think they are so much smarter and better than everyone else, and everyone wants to call it cultural pride when it's really that they think they are singularly the best people in the world and that other nations are primitive and lack their intellect in comparison. They don't know that their intellect and knowledge is foolishness to God and he resists them. And the proof is, a lot of the undeveloped countries people are becoming Christian while God has resisted Japan.

 1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Japan can glory in their own eyes but not in God's eyes. You may think the Japanese have such great intellect, but God sees it as foolishness because not many are called by him and chosen.  That's the bottom line of Why! Why there are so few Christians in Japan. Because God elected so few Christians in Japan. And he did so for a reason. Christians just can't swallow the reason. It gets caught in their throat.



Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on December 19, 2014, 02:58:07 PM
From the sound of it, Christians have almost as high an opinion of the Japanese as the Japanese themselves.  )baghead(

For the record, in Japanese belief, Kofuku is the goddess of misfortune and there are seven gods of fortune. They are Hotei, Jurojin, Fukurokuju, Bishamonten, Benzaiten (Benten-sama), Daikokuten (Daikoku) and Ebisu. The Japanese have more gods than you can count, so it's no wonder there is not a great work of evangelism going on there. Wiki has a list that doesn't even begin to cover them all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_deities

While I don't know if Dryfus's comments are necessarily true, I do know that the Japanese have a super high opinion of themselves. More than people of other nations. Germany wasn't the only people who thought of themselves as the master race. And God does resist the proud and give grace to the humble so that "seems" to be the case here. I do agree with the comment that if God had wanted there to be a great revival in Japan, there would be. So what does that say?

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on December 19, 2014, 03:03:17 PM
Welcome Margaret,

May I welcome you to Mountain Retreat.  I do hope that you will enjoy your stay here. 

I have lived in Japan for 10 years, The existence of true Christianity is basically non-existent. I became very interested in the things of God, but I never returned to Japan.  I felt sure that with my Japanese language skills that if I was to become a Christian, surely I would have to return to Japan as a missionary. Instead God grabbed my heart and took me to Russia (of all places) instead.

Well once again, if God had wanted you to go to Japan, you would have. God's plans are not thwarted by man's missions are they? The fact is, God hasn't seen fit to do a great evangelistic work in Japan. Which begs the question, why? Maybe because it's not his will because Japan without repentance serves a hundred false gods.  :(

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Bruce on December 25, 2014, 07:20:11 PM
Well, my 2 cents is that I agree that blaming it on Japanese culture is just another way of excusing the Japanese for being full of themselves or prideful of their pagan heritage. Americans like to put the Japanese on a pedestal but I studied Japanese and they grow up groomed to have a self-aggrandizing respect that places their culture above everything else, so they actually look down upon not only other cultures but other people.

If their children don't succeed academically above other groups, they look upon that as a shame to the family because they think they are inherently better. Is it any wonder they reject Christianity and look upon it as the drug or crutch of the ignorant masses. It's a strange culture that is now becoming Westernized so that it's even worse today. The young girls are like an intelligent Paris Hilton, but still with an empty head. I don't say this to be cruel, just what I have noticed. I once asked a Japanese girl why she wouldn't date americans and she said it was not because they were Christian, bad, cruel or without money or culture, but because her parents wouldn't approve of her going out with caucasians.  A little prodding revealed that Japanese look upon us as substandard and beneath them. I thought it might just be this person, but I heard it again and again from my colleagues. Japan is one of the least places of integration in the industrialized world. By design. Now that's being full of yourself. They want our tourism, but not our God, sons or religion that they think will mess up their culture. Which is in itself religion. What's ironic is, they have started celebrating Christmas over there, but of course only in the sense of giving gifts, buying cakes and promoting Santa. Nothing more. When we look at that country objectively and not through nostalgic eyes, is there any wonder God has not done many powerful works there?


Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Halle on December 27, 2014, 09:44:35 PM
But have no tears, for if God wanted a great election from Japan, there would be one. Agree?

I suppose so. But that could change couldn't it?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformer on December 28, 2014, 11:40:42 AM
But have no tears, for if God wanted a great election from Japan, there would be one. Agree?

I suppose so. But that could change couldn't it?

With God all things are possible, but in this day and age of declining morals and abandonment of Church principles and faithfulness, I highly doubt it.

Having said that, when in the position to preach the gospel without reviling, we should never stop preaching to any people under the guise of God not willing it. If it's not God's will, you won't be in the position to preach the gospel in Japan, and if you are then it may be God's will that you preach, even if it is to no avail. Our job is to preach, not question the effectiveness of it or whether a country is cursed. That could be just as much a sign of our own arrogance as rejection is of their vanity or pride.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Brian on December 29, 2014, 04:08:27 AM
Well, my 2 cents is that I agree that blaming it on Japanese culture is just another way of excusing the Japanese for being full of themselves or prideful of their pagan heritage. Americans like to put the Japanese on a pedestal but I studied Japanese and they grow up groomed to have a self-aggrandizing respect that places their culture above everything else, so they actually look down upon not only other cultures but other people.


I don't think they are "full of themselves", rather they are proud of their ethnic heritage and commitment to their history and country.  Is there anything wrong with being proud of your race and heritage? I don't think so. It may just be a simple matter of not enough emphasis in western Christians to evangelize there.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Rich Aikers on December 29, 2014, 11:11:03 PM
I'm from China, but have worked in Japan and our people and the Japanese have a long standing cultural feud going that has stood between any evangelism. But lately, it seems to be thawing. While Christians view the world in terms of good and evil, God and Satan, right and wrong, the Japanese view it much differently than people do in the west.

It does make you scratch your head. Strange that there are more Christians in China (a Communist country that hates religion) per capita than there are in industrialized, westernized, democratized Japan. Things that make you go, Hhmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on January 03, 2015, 07:59:23 AM
But have no tears, for if God wanted a great election from Japan, there would be one. Agree?

I suppose so. But that could change couldn't it?

Must I repeat things again and again? If God had wanted Japan to be a great Christian nation, it would be. Am I right in that? Isn't that the whole point of your Calvinism, that God is sovereign? God's plans are not thwarted by man's missions to change the people of Japan, are they? I say again, God hasn't seen fit to do a great evangelistic work in Japan. Is it because it is not really his will, because Japan won't repent and serves so many false gods, without giving a second glance to the true God?


Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Frank Mortimer on January 05, 2015, 07:07:32 AM
BY MICHELLE A. VU
"The quality of missionaries or the methodologies used is not the problem when it comes evangelizing. But it is the Japanese mentality itself that is hindering more people from coming to Christ, said a mission leader last week at a global conference in Tokyo.

Japanese people value human relationships more than truth and principle, said Dr. Minoru Okuyama, director of the Missionary Training Center in Japan, during his presentation at the Tokyo 2010 Global Missions Consultations".

That quote pretty much sums it up.  Generally speaking, they value humanism more than truth. I don't want to point the finger at any particular group of people, but that about sums it up.

 I Thessalonians 2:13 "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe".

Does that make sense?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on February 08, 2015, 07:49:34 AM

That quote pretty much sums it up.  Generally speaking, they value humanism more than truth. I don't want to point the finger at any particular group of people, but that about sums it up.



I happen to love the people of Japan. They are a better class of people than we are. The people of Japan have a better sense of who they are than we Westerners do, they have respect for their history and their sense of culture and tradition, which is a good thing. As any good sociologist and Psychologist will tel you there's nothing wrong with thinking that you are special, in fact it is good for mental health.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Tony Warren on February 09, 2015, 07:17:13 AM
>>>
I happen to love the people of Japan.
<<<

Not being a Christian (by your own admission) your idea of love is decidedly different from the Christian idea of love. We don't love people because they are from a certain nation, act a certain way, have a pleasant culture, look a certain way, have a certain character or social standing, but because charity never fails. In other words, in true benevolence (agape) we desire for them the same redemption that God has given us. That's the love that faithful Christians have for the people of Japan.

James 2:8-9

As God is no respecter of persons, so we are no respecter of persons, but fulfil the royal law according to the scripture by loving our neighbor as we love ourselves. And that means desiring for them that same salvation that we ourselves have. You want to talk about love, THAT is true love.


Quote
>>>
They are a better class of people than we are.
<<<

I'm sure that sounds good to the misinformed, the naive and credulous, but in reality it is categorically, unequivocally, Not True! There are no people on earth who are a better class than any other people, as we are all desperately wicked, born in sin, without righteous character and but clay in the potter's hands. There is only one class of people, and that is mankind. Yes, through humanism we may have our favorites, but rest assured, one is not better than the other apart from God's working in them.

Job 33:6

The only real better class of people are the people predestinated by God to be conformed to the image of His Son. And they are only better because of Christ in them. The Japanese who have Christ in them are indeed a righteous people because they are of the Kingdom of Christ. No other reason.


Quote
>>>
The people of Japan have a better sense of who they are than we Westerners do,
<<<

Inherently man has respect of persons (obviously), but God does not. If the people of Japan truly had a sense of who they were they would deem themselves as "worms from the ground" as the Apostle Paul,  and they would not be one of the least Christian countries in the world. Nevertheless, there is a remnant even from Japan, just as everywhere else.

Acts 10:34-35

IF indeed they had a better sense of who they are, they would be a nation where there were many Christians, not one where there are few. For the Spirit to truly discern who we are is the chief reason we know that we are as worms and only good in Christ Jesus. I usually sign my posts "nosce te ipsum," which means "Know Thyself."  If one truly knows who they are, they know that they are in desperate need the Christ and are nothing without Him. Do the people of Japan (generally speaking) know they have need of Christ?

Job 15:14-16

The people of Japan have no better sense of who they are than any people of any other nation. And perhaps less. For one to know who they are they must know that their heart is is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9).

Psalms 51:5-6

When man has a better sense of who he is, he is repentant and has an earnest desire to do the will of God--therefore Christ is not far away. Indeed, without a good sense of that, mankind is adrift without a clear sense of being, purpose or direction.


Quote
>>>
...they have respect for their history and their sense of culture and tradition, which is a good thing.
<<<

So do the people of Israel, but to what end? Is it really ultimately a good thing or is it actually an exercise in glorying in ourselves, a cultivation of carnal pride that prevents us from seeing ourselves as we really are? What good is history, culture and tradition without real knowledge of God? It's just fuel for the fire.

Colossians 2:8

Worldliness, vain philosophies, traditions and ideas of self-worth and heritage are the root of man's exaltation of himself that boast a higher class, a deeper wisdom or otiose cultural traditions. Respect for history in the numerous false gods and deities is a corruption of the sense of man, not a good thing wherein anyone might glory. Man should have respect for the invisible things of God from creation in the elements of the world that are clearly seen (Romans 1:20), but instead he rejects the glory of the eternal power and Godhead in favor of customs, idols, culture, folklore, tradition and mythos. No, it's not a good thing, it's a carnal humanistic thing that wars against true communion with the God of creation.


Quote
>>>
As any good sociologist and Psychologist will tel you there's nothing wrong with thinking that you are special, in fact it is good for mental health.
<<<

But is it good for our spiritual health? Is it good to be unalterable because of tradition, or is that truly condescension, contemptuousness, arrogance, conceit, haughtiness, egotism and pride. Is being overconfident and having a sense of self-importance or a exaggerated self-opinion in self love, "a good things?" Ultimately? If we want the truth, we have to receive the truth, and that is only done through the Spirit of truth, never the spirit of hubris. We can worship God or we can worship ourselves--but not both. For only one is in truth.

John 4:23-24

We must worship him from spiritual principles, in humility with sincere, filial reverence that pleases Him rather than ourselves. We don't have to be a Sociologist and Psychologist to know that it is arrogant to think that we are some sort of special people "apart" from being in Christ? No, that's not good for our Spiritual health. What is good is to come to the God breathed realization that we are a loathsome, wicked, despised people, apart from the sanctified, uncommon family of Christ. The question of "if any people are special in and of themselves" is answered one way by Christians, and another way by the unsaved. And the Christian's mental health is defined by agreement with His Word, rather than man's opinions.

Quote
>>>
Why are there so few Christians in Japan?
<<<

As for the question, why are there so few Christians in Japan? That's God's domain, and only He knows for sure. But we know this:

Acts 13:47-48

There are as many Christians in Japan as God has (thus far) ordained, for He sovereign and in absolute control of such things. Not one of His elect shall slip by unsaved, every single sheep will hear His voice that were meant to hear His voice. We are comforted in that truth. We will witness to them but we cannot save them. That's God's domain.

Romans 8:14

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. -Acts 10:34-35"
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on February 11, 2015, 04:38:11 PM
Well I guess we know who don't like the Japanese!  :(

  So I guess we should just write them off, huh?


Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Theo on February 12, 2015, 08:51:49 PM
It does make you scratch your head. Strange that there are more Christians in China (a Communist country that hates religion) per capita than there are in industrialized, westernized, democratized Japan. Things that make you go, Hhmmmmmmm.

Interesting article!


Mission Leader: Why So Few Christians in Japan?
BY MICHELLE A. VU, CHRISTIAN POST REPORTER

The quality of missionaries or the methodologies used is not the problem when it comes evangelizing. But it is the Japanese mentality itself that is hindering more people from coming to Christ, said a mission leader last week at a global conference in Tokyo.

Japanese people value human relationships more than truth and principle, said Dr. Minoru Okuyama, director of the Missionary Training Center in Japan, during his presentation at the Tokyo 2010 Global Missions Consultations.

“Because they are afraid of disturbing human relationships of their families or neighborhood even though they know that Christianity is the best,” said Okuyama, who previously was Buddhist and a Shintoist. “Thus, Japanese make much of human relationships more than the truth. Consequently we can say that as for Japanese, one of the most important things is harmony; in Japanese ‘Wa.’”

He added, “[T]hose who harm the harmony are bad, whether they are right or not has been beside the question.”

Less than one percent of Japan’s population is Christian even though the religion was brought to the country over 150 years ago.

Okuyama noted that Christianity is thriving in neighboring China and Korea because the mentality of the people is to “make more of truth or principle than human relationships.”


In China, the Christian population outnumbers more than even the Communist Party. The Communist Party has about 50 million people, whereas the number of Christians is estimated to be more than double that figure.

Regarding South Korea, the Japanese mission leader called the country a “Christian” nation. South Korea is home to the world’s largest church – Yoido Full Gospel Church, which has more than 800,000 members.

“When the Chinese have been challenged to choose the truth or the human relationship, they choose the truth, sacrificing the human relationship. But Japanese would choose the human relationship, sacrificing the truth,” Okuyama said. “Utterly same as the Chinese, Koreans also choose the truth.”

He noted anthropologists have described Japan as a “human relationship oriented society,” but China and South Korea as “principle-oriented” societies.

Despite the difficulties in reaching the Japanese people, Okuyama said missionaries must not give up but continue to plant the seed. He noted the history of several people groups where, for hundreds of years, it seemed like evangelism efforts were in vain. But suddenly countless people came to Christ.

“The seed of the Gospel never falls to the ground in vain,” stated Okuyama. “Let us do our jobs!”

More than 2,000 mission leaders representing 140 countries convened for the Tokyo 2010 Global Missions Consultations, May 11-14. The Tokyo conference purposely coincided with the 100th anniversary of the Edinburgh meeting – the first-ever global missions conference.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformer on February 13, 2015, 05:54:11 AM
Well I guess we know who don't like the Japanese!  :(


Yes, the non Christians, athiests and pride enablers!

Quote
  So I guess we should just write them off, huh?

Can you read? And why would a non christian be concerned about Christians just writing them off? Are you just trolling?



Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on February 14, 2015, 08:50:35 PM
You Christian people should watch NHK world, you might learn something about Japanese culture and not think that Christ is the only way to a deity, religion or self worth. There are other opinions.

Quote
why would a non christian be concerned about Christians just writing them off?

Maybe because we might think Christians are supposed to be inclusive, not exclusive.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformer on February 15, 2015, 03:12:23 PM
You Christian people should watch NHK world, you might learn something about Japanese culture

The only thing anyone will learn from NHK World is what the Japanese want you to think about Japan, not the Christian world view. Namely, that it's "Cool Japan," their moto, better in every way than any other culture.

If we want to learn that, we can just listen to you and ignore scripture about evangelism.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on February 26, 2015, 05:09:34 AM
 )Fighting(  I sense a lot of hostility here against Japan. Is it because they aren't so easily led about the nose by western religion? Japan is basically a closed society, and they are becoming more and more jaded and brought into the western depravity and degeneration  through the internet and TV. I don't blame them for trying to keep their culture pure without western religion, crime and selfishness. Japan is simply not a melting pot, and that's for the good.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Erik Diamond on February 26, 2015, 11:43:19 AM
Quote
I sense a lot of hostility here against Japan. Is it because they aren't so easily led about the nose by western religion? Japan is basically a closed society, and they are becoming more and more jaded and brought into the western depravity and degeneration  through the internet and TV. I don't blame them for trying to keep their culture pure without western religion, crime and selfishness. Japan is simply not a melting pot, and that's for the good.

You are one confused troll. Obviously you did not listen to what Tony explained with Scripture.  You offer NO SCRIPTURE REFUTE whatsoever.  All you care about is Japanese "culture" and "society".  Aren't you suppose to be more concerned about saving their souls from hell by witnessing with True Gospel, not to be confused with so called "western religion."  Gospel can overcome ANY nation, ANY culture, ANY closed society, and ANY government and laws to win souls, didn't you realize this?
|
Mat 16:18
(18)  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Rev 6:2
(2)  And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Do you understand these verses?

Erik
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on March 25, 2015, 05:46:24 PM
All you care about is Japanese "culture" and "society".  Aren't you suppose to be more concerned about saving their souls from hell by witnessing with True Gospel
Erik

It's not for me to be concerned, obviously they are concerned about their culture and society, and that's why they don't listen to your Christian attempts to indoctrinate them with foreign beliefs. How is that a bad thing? Clearly, you are not defending your religion well enough for them to accept it over their culture. They're smart people, they've considered Christianity and obviously found it wanting.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Erik Diamond on March 25, 2015, 10:40:57 PM
Quote
They're smart people, they've considered Christianity and obviously found it wanting.

Really, sorry to disappoint you, but God did take some people out of Japan for Himself already as he did with every nation on whole earth wherever Gospel went.   :peace:

Mat 16:18
(18)  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Isa 52:9-10
(9)  Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
(10)  The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

Act 13:47
(47)  For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Not even culture stop God.

Erik
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Soldier on March 26, 2015, 09:37:26 AM

 )Fighting(  I sense a lot of hostility here against Japan. Is it because they aren't so easily led about the nose by western religion? Japan is basically a closed society

That's the only thing you've said that has a grain of truth to it. They do in one sense tend to not have an open mind because they take far too much pride in Japanese culture and beliefs.  A lot more than other countries, and that is to the exclusion of other people and their religions. They are not really open to religions like Christianity. I know because I was stationed there for a while. That attitude happens to be a bad thing as far as Christianity goes because their beliefs are pagan and against Christian doctrines.

I think it is mostly due to the fact that Christianity represents an "outside influence" that Japanese (more than any other society) has a problem with. The fact is, Japan is unquestionably one of the least ethnically diverse countries in the world, with 98 percent of the population being Japanese nationals. 98 percent is a lot! To put it simply (despite what fans want to believe), in general they don't take to outsiders. When I was stationed there, some of them were friendly and some were not. Now before anyone jumps all over me, I know that it is a generalization, but also obviously true in some respects. Many still hate Americans because of the war and others just plain think Christianity is a foreign religion that would somehow make them less Japanese or even something they are not. I don't want to equate it with the attitudes of Nazi Germany, but to a large degree they do that that same sense of purity of race, culture and society. Their distaste for Christianity is part and parcel of their narcissism and self-perpetuated myth of homogeneity.

 James 4:6
  "But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble."
 
Is it any wonder then that God resists them so that they are one of the countries with the least Christian converts? Someone here said that they are full of themselves, and that just about covers the reason why they reject Christianity. They look at it as somewhat of an attack on their culture. To their own peril I might add.

 Acts 4:12
   "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Pearson on March 27, 2015, 09:29:39 AM
The fact is, Japan is unquestionably one of the least ethnically diverse countries in the world, with 98 percent of the population being Japanese nationals. 98 percent is a lot! To put it simply (despite what fans want to believe), in general they don't take to outsiders.

 others just plain think Christianity is a foreign religion that would somehow make them less Japanese or even something they are not. I don't want to equate it with the attitudes of Nazi Germany, but to a large degree they do that that same sense of purity of race, culture and society. Their distaste for Christianity is part and parcel of their narcissism and self-perpetuated myth of homogeneity.

[Soapbox mode on]
Interesting, and sadly, everything you've said about Japan is true. It even showed up in the recent selection of the Japanese selection for miss Universe. She's been ostracized in her own country for not being Japanese enough, even though she was born in Japan, of a Japanese woman, was raised up in (and lives in) Japan, but has an American father. The Japanese are very aware of their culture and seem to have this need to glory in their past, their spiritualism and also in themselves.

http://kfor.com/2015/03/24/miss-universe-japan-facing-backlash-for-not-being-japanese-enough/

However, you can also see some changes (slow as they may be) as more of the young accept foreigners and even tolerate other religions like Christianity. Still, for the most part trying to get them to listen to a Christian view of God is like trying to convert a Catholic. It's hard!

(http://www.trettel.com/ccrc/images/two_cents.gif)
Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Melanie on April 21, 2015, 07:23:35 PM
Hi,

It always bothers me when I see people answering questions like this one, and in a desire to "protect God's righteousness", they diminish His sovereignty.

Michael


Especially preachers who come on after these type disasters and say God had nothing to do with it. As if God is not sovereign, just watching nature and waiting to see what we do in the world.  That's what bothers me. Because it puts forth the teaching that Gpod is not in control, he's just looking on.

Did God Cause the Tsunamis, Earthquakes and Floods?

Isaiah 45:7 – I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Deuteronomy 32:39 – “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. ”

Revelation 16:7 And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God the Almighty, true and just are your judgments!” 8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Daniel 4:35 – all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”

Romans 9:20 – But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

Revelation 1:8 – “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on April 22, 2015, 08:13:01 AM

So God killed all those people, children included?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Erik Diamond on April 22, 2015, 12:59:07 PM
Quote
So God killed all those people, children included?

God did kill all those people, children included in city of Sodom, didn't He? (Gen 19:23-25)

Or didn't God did kill all those people, children included in city of Jericho by commanding the Israelis to do it? (Joshua 6:21)

Etc., etc.

Your point is, Maurice?

Erik
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: lpowell on April 23, 2015, 08:05:02 AM
Graham -  “Our govt needs to halt all immigration of Muslims from countries that have active terrorist cells & take military action to defeat ISIS.”

Psalm 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
8 They are brought down and fallen: but we are risen, and stand upright.
9 Save, LORD: let the king hear us when we call.

Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: James Heckman on April 23, 2015, 10:05:02 AM
Graham -  “Our govt needs to halt all immigration of Muslims from countries that have active terrorist cells & take military action to defeat ISIS.”

Why would any Christian in their right mind be against this? This is probably the only thing we can agree with Billy Graham on. Lord save us from the liberal Christians.


Quote
Psalm 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
8 They are brought down and fallen: but we are risen, and stand upright.
9 Save, LORD: let the king hear us when we call.

None of those passages say one word about countries not having a military, or forbidding them from fighting against some of the worst evil this world has ever seen. So you are using scripture inappropriately.

As for the tsunami that killed all those people in Japan and Thailand, yes God ordained it and allowed all those people to die. God is sovereign, liberal Christians just don't realize that. 
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Kevin Wright on April 25, 2015, 06:50:49 AM
Graham -  “Our govt needs to halt all immigration of Muslims from countries that have active terrorist cells & take military action to defeat ISIS.”

Why would any Christian in their right mind be against this? This is probably the only thing we can agree with Billy Graham on. Lord save us from the liberal Christians.



 :amen:
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reggie Matthews on April 25, 2015, 09:13:27 AM
)nicethread( “To rule out the hand of God in this … is to forget that He is in sovereign control of all events. If the sparrow falling to the ground is an event noted, and ordered, by Him, how much is this the case when the souls of so many thousands are parted from their bodies?”
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reggie Matthews on April 25, 2015, 09:16:04 AM
Graham -  “Our govt needs to halt all immigration of Muslims from countries that have active terrorist cells & take military action to defeat ISIS.”

Psalm 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
8 They are brought down and fallen: but we are risen, and stand upright.
9 Save, LORD: let the king hear us when we call.


We don't have to trust in military might, but that doesn't mean that the military is something Christians should be against. There is a rule of law in the world and rulers appointed to carry it out.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Jeremy on April 26, 2015, 04:06:04 AM
There is a preacher saying that the earthquake in Nepal India yesterday that killed thousands was God's judgment upon them for their idol worship and false gospel and worship. Do any of you believe that this is true? Things like this did seem to take place in the Old Testament as judgments.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Erik Diamond on April 26, 2015, 07:49:26 PM
Quote
There is a preacher saying that the earthquake in Nepal India yesterday that killed thousands was God's judgment upon them for their idol worship and false gospel and worship. Do any of you believe that this is true?

No. I am sure there are some True Christians being killed as well.

Erik
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Sojourner on April 28, 2015, 03:25:55 PM
There is a preacher saying that the earthquake in Nepal India yesterday that killed thousands was God's judgment upon them for their idol worship and false gospel and worship. Do any of you believe that this is true? Things like this did seem to take place in the Old Testament as judgments.

God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. If he brought judgment on the world that then was because of sin, He will do the same to this world we live in.  Don't be fooled by liberal rhetoric claiming God doesn't do that anymore. 9-11 should have been a wake-up call for this country that life is fragile, temporary and promised to no one, so they should make their peace with God. But it wasn't.  :'(

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Rich Aikers on May 15, 2015, 12:08:08 PM
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. If he brought judgment on the world that then was because of sin, He will do the same to this world we live in.  Don't be fooled by liberal rhetoric claiming God doesn't do that anymore. 9-11 should have been a wake-up call for this country that life is fragile, temporary and promised to no one, so they should make their peace with God. But it wasn't.  :'(

 )amen(  )GoodPopst(  )iagree(

   But I think we are in the minority. I also think these worldly calamities are a wake up call. Since God is Sovereign, God did it. And He did it for a reason. The Tsunami, 9-11, the earthquakes in Nepal, whatever. Not because these were greater sinners than anyone else, but that people would wake up and smell the roses. This world is temporal. Where will you be afterward.



Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: NeutralZone on July 05, 2015, 07:40:01 PM
I just heard Franklin Graham try to answer the question....why did god let the tsnunami happen, doesnt he love everyone. Franklin underhandedly blamed it on the devil, not directly. Graham can never argue his way out of a corner with Larry King with any good doctrin.

God made the tnunami happen. God causes all things. in isiah 45 i think it says that God causes calamity.  God is love, just,,and soveriren, and we dont know why really ever.

jsw:

That's incorrect.  There are no scriptures in the book of Isaiah that supports your claim that God "made" the tsunami happen.  In fact, you contradicted yourself when you ended your opening post by saying: "God is love, just."  You know why?  Because the God of the Bible who epitomizes love and justice does not "make" bad things happen to the innocent.  If you had said "God allowed the tsunami to happen," then you would be correct.

NeutralZone
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Mila Ostrovsky on July 05, 2015, 07:58:19 PM
Perhaps, but who said the tsunami was a bad thing? Perhaps God meant it for good since Japan is one of the most unchristian states in the world. Food for thought.


Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: NeutralZone on July 05, 2015, 08:16:14 PM
Quote
why did god let the tsunami happen, doesn’t he love everyone.


Who can we blame for the tsunami?  The waves?  The ocean floor?  The gravitational pull of the moon? A destabilized earth that is cursed by God? The residual effects of the great flood?

Do we blame the cursed people who caused the world to be cursed? The man Adam who brought the curse upon all mankind? Or each and every person living who would have done exactly as Adam did?

I will not blame God for testing Adam or Satan for failing to remain faithful. Adam, you, or me, we all together would have failed the test too. Therefore, we caused God's perfect creation to be cursed. We caused the earth to become what it is: A place of hardship, suffering, and death.  This tsunami is a small reminder of the blame we each share as children of Adam. A larger overpowering reminder will be the Lake of Fire on Judgment Day.

john:

You are right on point about who is actually responsible for the condition of our planet.  Humans insist on "progress," and so they proceed to ruin the environment with pesticides, oil spills, cutting down too many trees, etc.  Then they turn around and blame Almighty God for the consequences of their own wicked behavior.  And what are some of those consequences?  global warming, which causes melting of the ice caps, which, in turn, produces tsunamis. 

Global warming is directly linked to deadly tsunamis.  It is because of global warming, in our time, that the ice caps are melting.  In turn, this causes the sea level to rise, swallowing up various Pacific islands and making more water available in the ocean after an earthquake.  We are talking man-made disasters!

The connection with global warming and tsunamis in our time is confirmed by numerous sources.  Below is one such source:

Quote
Climate Change And Tsunamis: Ice Melt May Cause Underwater Avalanches, Research Shows

From Charles Q. Choi, OurAmazingPlanet Contributor:

If melting ice caps trigger rapid sea level rise, the strain that the edges of continents could experience might set off underwater landslides, new research suggests.

Submarine landslides happen on every continental margin, the underwater parts of continental plates bordering oceanic plates. These underwater avalanches, which can happen when underwater slopes get hit by earthquakes or otherwise have too much weight loaded onto them, can generate dangerous tsunamis.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/16/climate-change-tsunamis_n_3769200.html


And as is typical with Adam's seed, where nothing is new under the sun, the fallen human race looks around to assign blame and points the finger at Satan or God, rather than see who really is to blame.

Gen 3:12  And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. [Blaming God]

Gen 3:13  And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. [Blaming Satan]


Blame Adam, and then go look in the mirror.

john

I couldn't have said it better myself.


NeutralZone
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: NeutralZone on July 05, 2015, 08:20:59 PM
Hi,

It always bothers me when I see people answering questions like this one, and in a desire to "protect God's righteousness", they diminish His sovereignty.

Michael


Especially preachers who come on after these type disasters and say God had nothing to do with it. As if God is not sovereign, just watching nature and waiting to see what we do in the world.  That's what bothers me. Because it puts forth the teaching that Gpod is not in control, he's just looking on.

Did God Cause the Tsunamis, Earthquakes and Floods?

Isaiah 45:7 – I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Deuteronomy 32:39 – “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. ”

Revelation 16:7 And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God the Almighty, true and just are your judgments!” 8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Daniel 4:35 – all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”

Romans 9:20 – But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

Revelation 1:8 – “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Melanie:

What point are you attempting to make with the above verses?  Do explain.

NeutralZone
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformer on July 06, 2015, 05:33:17 AM
Especially preachers who come on after these type disasters and say God had nothing to do with it. As if God is not sovereign, just watching nature and waiting to see what we do in the world.  That's what bothers me. Because it puts forth the teaching that Gpod is not in control, he's just looking on.

Did God Cause the Tsunamis, Earthquakes and Floods?

Isaiah 45:7 – I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
Deuteronomy 32:39 – “‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. ”

Revelation 16:7 And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God the Almighty, true and just are your judgments!” 8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Daniel 4:35 – all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”

Romans 9:20 – But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

Revelation 1:8 – “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Melanie:

What point are you attempting to make with the above verses?  Do explain.

NeutralZone

What's to explain? It's self evident, isn't it? God is Sovereign. Is He not? Do you think that one leaf falls from a tree without His say so? One baby die without His say so? One person drown in a Tsunami without His say so? No one is born nor dies unless God has ordained it by His sovereign good will.

 Lu 12:24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

 Mt 6:25  Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

 Lu 12:6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

If God shows His sovereignty over birds, is He not that much more sovereign over mankind that not one of them is forgotten? God is infinite so that the very hairs of our head are numbered that He has full control over which are grey, which fall out and how many there are. God is illustrating in this passage His full control. He has sovereignty over who lives and dies. If it were God's will that no one die in the Tsunami He ordained in Japan, believe me No One Would Have Died! All the rumblings of the earth are under His full control so that if it is His will, there are no earthquakes, floods or tornadoes.

Do not think under any circumstances that God is idle just watching the world spin out of control. He is in control. Even the sin of the world He allows to His glory. That's sovereignty.


Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Rich Aikers on July 07, 2015, 09:21:01 AM


Do not think under any circumstances that God is idle just watching the world spin out of control. He is in control. Even the sin of the world He allows to His glory. That's sovereignty.

 :iagree: YUP!
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Chloe on November 12, 2015, 07:25:24 AM
I just finished watching a program called "Christmas in Tokyo" on the American TV Japanese station. Why do the Japanese celebrate Christmas if they don't believe in Christ?

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformer on November 14, 2015, 07:53:54 AM
I just finished watching a program called "Christmas in Tokyo" on the American TV Japanese station. Why do the Japanese celebrate Christmas if they don't believe in Christ?

The same way Americans celebrate Christmas and don't believe in Christ. No mystery there! It's just a holiday for them, a time to exchange presents, eat and drink and decorate their house. Christ has been long ago taken out of the celebration of his birth.
 
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: NoMass on January 02, 2016, 10:29:55 AM
Quote
Why are there so few Christians in Japan?

Look it up. There are eight million deities in Japan. 8 million! Does that answer your question? Everything (according to them) from mountains to trees to rice has a spirit, and to claim one Spirit being is like sacrilege to them. That's their tradition and they cling to tradition like cellophane wrap clings to itself. You want to be a missionary, go to China.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: James Heckman on January 04, 2016, 10:34:39 PM
Quote
Why are there so few Christians in Japan?

Look it up. There are eight million deities in Japan. 8 million! Does that answer your question? Everything (according to them) from mountains to trees to rice has a spirit, and to claim one Spirit being is like sacrilege to them. That's their tradition and they cling to tradition like cellophane wrap clings to itself. You want to be a missionary, go to China.

 )laugh( L O L

  That's just wrong! ;)
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Soldier on January 08, 2016, 07:53:00 PM
I was in Japan for a while and found that Japan is really a beautiful but strange country. For example, they don't really show a lot of affection, and Japanese men and women hardly ever kiss at all. And never in public (not that this is a bad thing). I was shocked to learn that most (like almost all) Japanese married couples only kiss about once a month and many much longer. I'm like, "how is that even possible?" And the wives put their husbands on an allowance system called okozukai  (I think).  The man has no say in it. And they worship cats as great spirits, or at least most do. I don't really find it any more strange that they have an aversion to Christianity or any other single god religion for that matter. I do wonder why in the old days missionaries didn't really try that hard to evangelize in Japan.  Godly providence or Christian neglect? Or maybe both.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Chloe on January 28, 2016, 06:03:49 AM
I was in Japan for a while and found that Japan is really a beautiful but strange country. For example, they don't really show a lot of affection, and Japanese men and women hardly ever kiss at all. And never in public (not that this is a bad thing). I was shocked to learn that most (like almost all) Japanese married couples only kiss about once a month and many much longer. I'm like, "how is that even possible?"

I actually saw a program on this same subject on the Japanese American TV Network (NHK) and I haven't closed my mouth since :)

I guess it all depends on how you were raised or brought up in your family. I think that determines what we will think is strange or unnatural. Because the program demonstrated that to them, this is normal behavior.  What I found interesting is that American men who had married Japanese wives, had to conform to this practice, rather than the other way around. Some things can't be explained pother than it's custom and institution. Or we can look at it this way. They probably think it strange that the rest of the world's husbands and wives kiss every time they are affectionate or say goodbye, or when they come home from work, etc.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: NoMass on April 15, 2016, 09:30:32 PM
News alert, and yet another deadly earthquake in Japan today. Still think it's all coincidence? Still think eight million deities in Japan doesn't move God? I thought you guys preach that God is sovereign? If he is, then he caused it didn't he? Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Pearson on June 15, 2016, 04:51:03 AM
News alert, and yet another deadly earthquake in Japan today. Still think it's all coincidence?

[Soapbox mode on]
Nothings coincidence, but nor is it because God thinks Japan is so much worse than Egypt, China or the Neitherlands.


Quote
Still think eight million deities in Japan doesn't move God? I thought you guys preach that God is sovereign? If he is, then he caused it didn't he? Or am I wrong?

Sin caused it, God allowed it, man is responsible for it by the curse that has come upon the earth from the fall.

(http://www.trettel.com/ccrc/images/two_cents.gif)
Just My two cents

[Soapbox mode off]
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Melanie on November 21, 2016, 05:02:13 AM
Quote
Why are there so few Christians in Japan?

Look it up. There are eight million deities in Japan. 8 million! Does that answer your question? Everything (according to them) from mountains to trees to rice has a spirit, and to claim one Spirit being is like sacrilege to them. That's their tradition and they cling to tradition like cellophane wrap clings to itself. You want to be a missionary, go to China.

Just because there are not a lot of Christians in Japan is not reason to neglect Japan. Isn't it more of a reason to go to Japan to teach? I would think so.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Margaret on March 30, 2017, 04:45:27 PM
So then, is Japan cursed in the sense that there are less Christians there than almost anywhere else tat is industrialized and such a population? Last I read they had less than 1.5 million, many of which are on the fence, as compared to the People's Republic of China who have around 50 to 60 million. Japan has 126,115,944 people. That's a drop in the bucket. I've read this thread through, I'm wondering if they are cursed because of their many religions so not many of them will believe in Christ. Somewhat like the nation of Israel?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Dana Pescator on April 11, 2017, 12:34:59 AM
So then, is Japan cursed in the sense that there are less Christians there than almost anywhere else tat is industrialized and such a population?

All unsaved people are cursed, whether in Japan, Mexico, Syria or the USA. There are some groups that like to single out various nations as being cursed, but that's just their own evil imaginations at work attempting to make themselves chosen. That's not the case since Israel ceased being the church over 2000 years ago.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on May 06, 2017, 07:38:39 PM

Some more than others I would say.

John 7:49
But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.

If Japan rejects the law of God, they are a cursed nation, just like the moabites and other nations before them.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Herman Stowe on May 11, 2017, 10:29:23 AM

I'll admit, it is a very strange phenomenon. No one seems to have a good answer, which in itself is strange.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/12/20/national/history/christian-missionaries-find-japan-tough-nut-crack/

Christian Missionaries Find Japan A Tough Nut To Crack!
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Trevor on May 12, 2017, 05:01:37 AM

Everybody has answers, but no one has a good answer. One we can see and understand. I mean, they're just people like the rest of us so it's very strange to say the least. I guess we'll just have to leave it i the hands of the Lord under the category of "unknown."
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Lieberman on May 26, 2017, 07:28:13 PM
Amazing Footage
150,000 drowned, the moral of the story, always be prepared to meet your God!




Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Johnny on May 26, 2017, 08:02:05 PM
Anyone. How do I make that video full screen? I thought it was CTL-F but that doesn't work.

That was very sad. It's amazing how quickly something changes from a little trickle coming down a river to a raging flood in a matter of just a few minutes.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Kenneth White on May 27, 2017, 09:02:58 AM
Anyone. How do I make that video full screen? I thought it was CTL-F but that doesn't work.

Some videos embedded into posts can't be natively made full screen. To see it full screen you have to click on the cast icon to cast it to your TV or on the word youtube on the bottom, and then click the square on the lower right hand side of the video to make it full screen. Basically, cast it to TV or watch it on youtube.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Sportsnut on May 27, 2017, 12:03:46 PM
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Henry on May 27, 2017, 02:17:51 PM
So what are you saying, that Japan is cursed because they don't want to be Christians? That God caused this evil to come upon them? Does God do evil?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Lieberman on May 28, 2017, 06:35:47 AM
So what are you saying, that Japan is cursed because they don't want to be Christians?

All the world who don't want to be Christians are cursed. The Japanese are no different. As for what I was saying, I made it clear what I was saying. I'll say it again. 150,000 drowned, the moral of the story, always be prepared to meet your God!


Quote
That God caused this evil to come upon them?

Isn't God in control of the floods, the earthquakes and the whirlwinds?


Quote
Does God do evil?

No. But God brings floods, tornadoes, landslides and puts up kings and takes down kings. God is sovereign and all that entails.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Dryfus on May 28, 2017, 07:22:39 AM
Why are there so few Christians in Japan? Everyone is missing the point. You can't see the forest for the trees. As I said before in this thread, the Japanese are really a closed society. They put on a good show for foreigners, but they are basically a xenophobic, elitist people who are at their core self-admiring. In other words, they are full of themselves. I know I'll take heat for saying that, but I've lived there for a spell and that is the truth. Hitler brainwashed the Germans to think that they were the best class of people on earth, and so did the Japanese. History shows this. The only difference is, Germany got over their elitist beliefs, Japan hid theirs and call it nationalism.

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. James 4:6"

The Japanese have a extreme sense of self-esteem and conceit of their history and importance. As long as that remains, they shall not turn to Christ in any great numbers. They are a biased, you might even say racist people, who think their heritage makes them superior. This was even noted by many of the people who went there after WWII. Even today very little has changed, and Japan remains culturally and ethnically a very closed society. For the rest of the world, they put on a facade of openness, but in reality their doors are closed to Christianity and any form of change to their society.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Emily on May 29, 2017, 05:23:05 PM

Funny you should say that. Here's an interesting article on the subject. I take no stand on the article, so take it for what it's worth.

http://projectjapan.org/pj/Article/Entries/2013/8/16_Why_Is_Christianity_Not_Widely_Believed_in_Japan.html
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Sportsnut on May 31, 2017, 06:33:30 PM

Funny how atheists all either call out to God to save or help them, or ask him, "Why, Why" when they don't even believe in God. What amazes me is that they even do this in Japan. What does it mean? They know there is a God or they are just speaking out of nothing better to say, like out of frustration?

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Herman Stowe on June 01, 2017, 08:50:34 AM
Funny how atheists all either call out to God to save or help them, or ask him, "Why, Why" when they don't even believe in God. What amazes me is that they even do this in Japan. What does it mean? They know there is a God or they are just speaking out of nothing better to say, like out of frustration?

by William Burkitt

Romans 1:18-20
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

18 - Our apostle having asserted and laid down a general proposition, that the justification of a sinner is only to be expected by the righteousness of the Mediator in a way of faith; he now undertakes the proof and demonstration of it thus; distributes the whole world into Gentiles and Jews; the former seeking righteousness by the dim light of nature; or the law written in their hearts; the latter by the works of the law, that is, by their external conformity to what the law of Moses exacted and required of them.
Now his present business is to prove distinctly and fully, that neither Gentile nor Jew could ever find what they thus sought. He begins here with the Gentiles, and shews that indeed they had inbred notions of a God imprinted in their minds by nature, and also had the book of the creature before their eyes, in which much, very much of God, might be seen: yet these common notices of God, and of good and evil, they did not obey and put in practice but rebelled against the light and dictates of their natural consciences: for which cause, the wrath of God was revealed from heaven against them.

Here observe, 1. A dreadful manifestation of divine wrath: The wrath of God is revealed from heaven. The wrath of God; that is, the indignation or vengeance of God: This the sinner shall feel who doth not fear it; for the fears of an incensed Deity are no bug-bears, nor the effects of ignorance and superstition, as the Atheists fancy. This wrath is said to be revealed from heaven; that is, discovered and made manifest by the God of heaven, partly by the light of nature, their own consciences giving them notice and warning of it; and partly by the examples of others, in the lashes of a divine severity on the back of sinners, by the hand of an incensed God: Thus the wrath of God was revealed to the Gentiles from heaven.

Observe, 2. The object or impulsive cause of his revealed and inflicted wrath; namely, All ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. Ungodliness compriseth all sins against God, or neglect of the duties of the first table: Unrighteousness comprehends all sins against our neighbour, or the breaches of the second table.

Note here, That the abstract is put for the concrete, the sins for the sinners that commit them; the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men; that is, against all ungodly and unrighteous persons; the meaning is, that God will certainly punish these sins upon the persons of the sinners.

Observe, 3. The special aggravation of these their sins, or that which made them so very provoking to Almighty God; namely, that they held the truth in unrighteousness; that is, their natural convictions were kept down under the dominion and power of their corruptions. Lust in their wills and affections was too hard for the light in their understandings; they entertained the light of truth in their minds, but did not suffer it to have its proper effect and influence upon their hearts and lives; thus making that a prisoner which would have made them free.

Learn, 1. That it is a very great aggravation of sin, for men to offend against the light of their own minds, and to rebel against the convictions of their own consciences.

2. That the wrath of God is dreadfully incensed against all those that live in any course of sin, rebelling against the dictates and convictions of their own enlightened consciences.

Dread it then, as thou dreadest hell itself, to sin against knowledge, to rebel against the light of thy own mind, to slight the whispers, to stifle the voice of thy own conscience; but reverence and obey its dictates as the commands of God.

19 - That is, much of the nature and properties of God may be known by the light of nature; his infinite power, wisdom and goodness, are manifest in the minds and the consciences of all men; For God hath shewed it unto them, partly by imprinting these notions of himself upon the hearts of all men, and partly by the book of the creatures, in which his glorious attributes are written in large and legible characters.
Learn hence, That all men have a natural knowledge of God, and those great duties which result form the knowledge of him.

2. That the natural knowledge which men have of God, if they live contrary to it, is a sufficient evidence of their holding the truth of God in unrighteousness, and is a God-provoking and wrath-procuring sin.

20 - The apostle here proceeds in acquainting us with that knowledge of God which the Heathens had by the light of nature, which was in their hearts, and augmented and increased by what of God they saw in the book of the creatures; namely, in the works of creation and providence: The invisible things of God from the creation of the world are clearly seen, &c. The sense, I conceive, is this, That the wise and wonderful frame of the world, which cannot reasonably be ascribed to any other cause but God, is a sensible demonstration to all mankind, of an eternal and powerful Being, that was the author and contriver of it. The strokes of the Creator's hand are engraven in all parts of the universe; the heavens, the earth, and the capacious sea, with all things contained in them, are evident testimonies of the excellency of their original cause: And therefore such of the Heathens of old as shut their eyes, and such of the Atheists at this day as wink hard, and will not see the footsteps of a Deity in the works of creation and providence, are, and will be, everlastingly left without excuse.
Learn hence, 1. That much of the being and essential perfections of God may be known by the light of nature, if attended to; and much more may be understood by the book of the creatures, if attentively looked into. The invisible things of God are clearly seen from the creation; that is, the creation of the world is a plain demonstration to men of the being and power of God.

Learn, 2. That all such persons will be left forever without excuse before God, who either extinguish the light of nature, and smother the natural notices which they have of God, or do not improve them by a due consideration of the works of God. Without opening the eye of reasons, the book of creation is of no more use to us than to the brute beasts: They see the creatures as well as we, but many of us consider the creatures, and see God in the creation no more then they: And this will leave us without excuse.

Learn, 3. How endearing are our obligations to almighty God, for the favour and benefit of divine revelation; that, together with the light of nature, we have the superadded light of scripture; the law to convince us of our sin, the gospel to discover a Saviour. The Heathens had only those natural apostles, of sun, moon, and stars, to guide them to the wisdom of the Father, the incarnate Son of God, and his inspired apostles and ministers to lead us into all truth, and his Holy Spirit to excite and quicken us in our obedience to him.

Therefore, eternally magnified be Omnipotent Love, for the light of scripture, for the benefit of divine revelation. For though there be a natural theology, there is not a natural Christology; there is a natural divinity, but not a natural gospel, a knowledge of God by the light of nature, but no knowledge of Jesus the Mediator, without the light of scripture.

All thanks, eternal thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift! Lord, how will all such as contemn it be left without excuse!
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Henry on June 01, 2017, 01:50:11 PM
I think it is a natural instinct to call out to God when things go horribly wrong. I don't think they believe in God, at least not like they know he exists, but out of desperation that they know they are out of options. But it's still sad to hear all those cries of desperation and hopelessness.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on June 28, 2017, 02:23:48 AM
Why is it sad? According to Calvinists, it's all predetermined by God so it's his will. Am I right? Shouldn't you then rejoice?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformed Baptist on July 12, 2017, 02:19:55 PM
No, Christians don't rejoice over the lost. They witness to them and pray for them as God wills. The blind aren't condemned because God willed it, they are condemned because of their own sins. The responsibility is mankind's own.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on July 08, 2018, 10:56:03 AM
And Guess what. More floods and deaths this week, over a hundred drowned,

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/07/08/torrential-rains-kill-at-least-81-in-western-japan/23477081/

The point is, it's God's will because of their refusal to receive him, is it not? According to Calvinists, isn't this the judgment of God? You say God is sovereign over this, then he ordained it. Or else you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Philly Dawg on July 09, 2018, 03:00:37 AM
The point is, it's God's will because of their refusal to receive him, is it not? According to Calvinists, isn't this the judgment of God? You say God is sovereign over this, then he ordained it. Or else you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

We don't say God is sovereign, we know that God is sovereign. It's like Pearson said. Nothing is by coincidence, nor were the calamities because God thinks Japan is so much worse than Egypt, China or the Netherlands. Sin caused it, God allowed it, man is responsible for it by the curse that came upon the earth in the fall. God could stop it, he doesn't and so it's ordained.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Drew on July 09, 2018, 07:41:00 AM

How does that make sense?  )hammerhead(
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Sojourner on July 10, 2018, 02:33:37 PM

How does that make sense?  )hammerhead(

It makes perfect sense Drew. It seems you are just not predisposed to hearing the truth about God's sovereignty. If God could cause a revival in Japan because he's all powerful, and he doesn't, what does that say?

It says something those believing in free will don't want to hear.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Reformer on July 11, 2018, 02:23:13 AM
It makes perfect sense Drew. It seems you are just not predisposed to hearing the truth about God's sovereignty. If God could cause a revival in Japan because he's all powerful, and he doesn't, what does that say?

It says something those believing in free will don't want to hear.

 )GoodPopst( Among other things they don't want to hear. Isn't it ironic that those who most reject God's sovereignty, most support Israel's sovereignty? Who most advocate man's free will, are those most opposed to God's free will? Who are most blessed, are those who complain the most about those less fortunate? Who are most hateful, are those who pretend to love? And so on and so forth.

Bottom line, Japan is no better than any other nation. God is in control and is no respecter of persons. Be they Japanese, Africans, Bolivians or Americans.

Lu 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on July 11, 2018, 04:47:28 PM
Quote
And Guess what. More floods and deaths this week, over a hundred drowned,

They are still having serious issues, the deaths at 176 now and counting. Why does places like Japan have such great problems continually. Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Floods, devastating wars, the only country to have a Atom Bomb dropped on it, etc.  And as opposed to God as any nation on earth. You believe that's just luck?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: aquatic on July 12, 2018, 06:44:39 AM
Japan’s geographical features easily explain its history of natural disasters. I wouldn’t read into that too much.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on July 12, 2018, 10:15:08 AM
Japan’s geographical features easily explain its history of natural disasters. I wouldn’t read into that too much.

Of course, there's always an explanation. Why is Japan one of the most non Christianized places on earth? Of course there's a plausible explanation. Why is South America so Catholic? Of course there is a plausible explanation. Why is man made out of the dust material of the earth? Of course there is a scientific explanation for it. There always is. That doesn't mean it's just coincidence with what is written in the Bible. Why was Canaan kicked out of the land and the land given to the people of Israel out of Egypt? Of course people have a plausible explanation, but I prefer God's word that it was because they rejected him.

Believe it or not aquatic, God does judge.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Tony Warren on August 01, 2018, 01:20:54 PM
>>>
Japan’s geographical features easily explain its history of natural disasters. I wouldn’t read into that too much.


Of course, there's always an explanation. Why is Japan one of the most non Christianized places on earth? Of course there's a plausible explanation. Why is South America so Catholic? Of course there is a plausible explanation. Why is man made out of the dust material of the earth? Of course there is a scientific explanation for it. There always is. That doesn't mean it's just coincidence with what is written in the Bible. Why was Canaan kicked out of the land and the land given to the people of Israel out of Egypt? Of course people have a plausible explanation, but I prefer God's word that it was because they rejected him.

Believe it or not aquatic, God does judge.
<<<

George,
   What do you know. For once, we actually agree on something. But probably for different reasons. Yes, God is beyond the explanations of those without the Spirit. Yes, God is in total control over this world, and yes God does judge according to His will, but it is because He is totally sovereign--which is a view that you totally reject. So while yo're technically right, you are fundamentally wrong.
   
"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Sportsnut on August 02, 2018, 01:58:56 AM
Funny how atheists all either call out to God to save or help them, or ask him, "Why, Why" when they don't even believe in God. What amazes me is that they even do this in Japan. What does it mean? They know there is a God or they are just speaking out of nothing better to say, like out of frustration?

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on August 14, 2018, 11:49:57 AM
Why are there so few Christians in Japan? Because there so few Christians in Japan. Cause and effect. japan likes to remain Japan and not have to worry about ungodly immigration.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Maurice on August 27, 2018, 07:29:58 PM

I have a good question. Why did God kill so many women babies and little children in this March 11, 2011 Tsunami of Japan?  )anyone(
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Tony Warren on August 28, 2018, 03:53:34 AM
>>>
I have a good question. Why did God kill so many women babies and little children in this March 11, 2011 Tsunami of Japan?  )anyone(
<<<

Correct, a good and often asked question--been asked and addressed many times. You might start at these two places:

Why Does God allow Evil and Suffering

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=29.0

http://mountainretreatorg.net/searchit/searchit.cgi?why%20does%20God%20allow%20suffering


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Sportsnut on September 08, 2018, 10:00:44 PM
in light of the continuing tragedies, the earthquake and thousands dead in Japan last week, I thought I'd revisit this question, asking why Japan has so many tragedies? My friend says it's because they are a Godless country, but so is lots of other countries. Others say it;s because of their geographical location. My question, does it have anything to do with God and judgment as some Christians claim?
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Hammerle Labinowic on September 09, 2018, 05:03:41 AM
in light of the continuing tragedies, the earthquake and thousands dead in Japan last week, I thought I'd revisit this question, asking why Japan has so many tragedies?

That area of the world is 60% responsible for it. The country sits on or near the earth's plates, with lots of Ocean front and so a lot of Earthquakes and Tsunami's are inevitable.


Quote
My friend says it's because they are a Godless country, but so is lots of other countries.

Exactly. I'd venture to say that Saudi Arabia is a more Godless country than Japan. Nor are the Japanese any more sinful than Europe or South America. Consider what Christ said.

Luke 13:2-5
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

So Japan isn't more sinful than any other country to merit special judgment, but all these tragedies are to the glory of God regardless.


Quote
My question, does it have anything to do with God and judgment as some Christians claim?[/b]

On this question I agree with what Tony Warren wrote. Everything has to do with God and his judgments because God is sovereign. Not one hair on our head falls out or is missing or lost without his providence, God numbers them all. How much more a earthquake or Tsunami. If it wasn't God's will, there wouldn't have been thousands drowned in a tsunami, or thousands escape death in them. That doesn't mean that Japan is judged because their sin was greater than some other country.

Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: George on October 31, 2018, 03:36:34 PM
Quote
We don't say God is sovereign, we know that God is sovereign. It's like Pearson said. Nothing is by coincidence, nor were the calamities because God thinks Japan is so much worse than Egypt, China or the Netherlands. Sin caused it, God allowed it, man is responsible for it by the curse that came upon the earth in the fall. God could stop it, he doesn't and so it's ordained.

How does that make sense?  )hammerhead(

 )smileyBounce(  )smileyBounce( I hear you brother. That makes no sense! It's circular reasoning.
Title: Re: The Tsunami & Why are There so few Christians in Japan
Post by: Drew on November 13, 2018, 05:34:49 AM
Quote
It's like Pearson said. Nothing is by coincidence, nor were the calamities because God thinks Japan is so much worse than Egypt, China or the Netherlands. God could stop it, he doesn't and so it's ordained.

How does that make sense?  )hammerhead(

 )smileyBounce(  )smileyBounce( I hear you brother. That makes no sense! It's circular reasoning.


Thank you. At least someone here understands the view Calvin invented is a opinion that doesn't make sense, not something we should follow after.