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Author Topic: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?  (Read 1226 times)

Robert Powell

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2017, 11:11:34 AM »
Posted in Evangelical, False Teacher Alert, Word Faith Movement, False Prophets, False teachers, Apostasy

Evangelicals Should be Deeply Troubled by Donald Trumpís Attempt to Mainstream Heresy
by Michael Horton

http://www.whitehorseinn.org

What a remarkable article. I wouldn't have thought one could stand and be counted in the Reformed arena in this day and age. I give Michael Horton credit if only for willing to stand and be counted.  He does a brilliant, accurate and  systematic job of courageously and plainly teaching the true Gospel, as differentiated in distinction to false gospels. Much like Tony warren does, without fear of being ostracized or condemned by the far right or near left. Just goes to show, honesty is not completely dead in the church just yet. Although this was published in a secular publication. Was it because the church didn't want to hear it?




Robert Powell

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2017, 11:25:21 AM »

I will end stating simply this;  I take my responsibility as a follower of Christ very seriously, and that there are those who do speak slanderously about President Donald Trump, I find very disturbing.

Alexandra

 )idonotagree( I don't think you know the definition of slander, or you are cleverly ignoring it because of your personal opinion. The only one I see constantly slandering people is Trump Himself. I mean if we're going to go by the actual definition of slander. Calling Trump a liar is not slander. It may be distasteful, bad-mannered, uncouth and crude, but it is not slander. Facts cannot be slander.

 slander: 1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

The key word here is FALSE. Making a true statement cannot be slander, no matter how much you wish it was. An example of a legally arguable slander would be Trump saying Obama was not born in the United States.

Sportsnut

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2017, 11:48:54 AM »
 :iagree:

Puritan Heart

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2017, 11:51:47 AM »

 slander: 1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.


Hello Robert,

Thank you for the Dictionary definition of the word slander. 

Please may I ask that you quote scripture, if any, that validates, endorses or approves God fearing, Bible believing Christ followers to criticisms, or *character truths,* or facts as you might call it, of those in leadership.  Should you find any scripture allowing the bolstering of these *truths* by the aforementioned believers, I would be interested in reading them.  As a woman who has strong opinions of her own, I am not averse to be convinced, provided scripture can support the views being contended.

Thanks in advance,

Alexandra
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Reformer

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2017, 01:55:20 PM »
)idonotagree( I don't think you know the definition of slander, or you are cleverly ignoring it because of your personal opinion. The only one I see constantly slandering people is Trump Himself.

That is a  )Goodpoint(

  How is it that Trump can say the most vile, slanderous, outrageous and incendiary things about anyone who questions him and "some Christians" don't utter a word. But the minute someone tells the truth about Trump, they're disgusted with the slander and vile comments?  ...things that make you go ...hmmmmmmm.  :thinker:


Diane Moody

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2017, 02:22:43 PM »
 )typing( It's called bias. And we're all guilty of it to a degree.

Puritan Heart

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2017, 03:09:33 PM »

  How is it that Trump can say the most vile, slanderous, outrageous and incendiary things about anyone who questions him and "some Christians" don't utter a word. But the minute someone tells the truth about Trump, they're disgusted with the slander and vile comments?  ...things that make you go ...hmmmmmmm.  :thinker:

Hello Reformer,

I make the assumption that your reference to *some Christians* would be me ..??  Kindly correct me if I am wrong, but I respond anyhow.

Firstly, please may I ask that you support your above opinion with scripture, stating where we, as Children of the Most High God have permission to repeat those *truths* to which you refer. 

Secondly, how is it that a man of your spiritual maturity really expects Christlikeness and Godliness from a president who openly has denied any comittment that Jesus Christ is the Lord of his life ?  Having radical charismatics lay their hands on him means nothing, or ..??

Thirdly, I shall repeat a question I had asked shortly after his inauguration ... not to you personally, but it was never responded to.  My question to you is this;  Do you pray for President Trump ?  If not, I remind you that you are obligated to !!

I Timothy v 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and [for] all that are in authority;
that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Romans 13:1 - Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.[/color]

1 Peter 2:17 - Honour all [men]. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Daniel 2 v 20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:

21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

and many many more ...

Fourthly, knowing all we do about this man, his flaws and his faults which are published daily and republished through every conceivable media channel available, and from your comments, I have to assume that with all your confession and profession of faith, you feel that God has made a mistake by allowing his, President Trumps post as leader of the American people. 

That opinions should be aired is acceptable, however, we should endeavour to not be hypocritical in treating the Living Written Word of Almighty God as if it were a social buffet or smorgasbord, granting ourselves admission to advocate, support and add to the vile criticisms or *truths* as you and others call it.  If it is allowed, again I ask, please support your views with scripture.  If not, there is a very serious problem with the way *some Christians* are viewing this situation. 

I end then by asking, if it is acceptable, what makes you as a man so different from President Trump ? 

Thanking you and Robert in advance for those scriptures you will support your opinions with.

Alexandra

PS; I will be offline until next week, but God willing, upon my return, I will respond accordingly.
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Melanie

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2017, 07:43:23 PM »
It's called bias. And we're all guilty of it to a degree.

I couldn't agree more.  )Bible-Red(

Reformer

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2017, 01:39:10 PM »
)typing( It's called bias. And we're all guilty of it to a degree.

Yes it is, and yes we are.

Joh 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

You are so correct. I just wanted to hear someone (preferably of the opposite view) tell the truth about their own bias for a change. Never happens.  :'(

Reformer

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2017, 02:28:07 PM »
Hello Reformer,

I make the assumption that your reference to some Christians would be me?  Kindly correct me if I am wrong, but I respond anyhow.

Greetings sister,
   From my Bible studies I have learned never to assume. Some Christians (plural) means some Christians (plural), and cannot therefore refer to a single individual unless that individual fits the qualifications I outlined. However, if you are one of these Christians that are strangely quiet when Trump says the most vile, slanderous, outrageous and incendiary things about anyone who questions him, and yet the minute someone tells the truth about Trump's deceit, they mysteriously decide to speak up declaring that they are disgusted with the slander and vile comments about Trump, then yes, of course it refers to you. Because you would fit the "some Christians who do that" qualifier that I mentioned.

Me, I try and treat everyone with an even hand when it comes to what they say. I don't care whether they are Republican or Democrat, rich or poor, black or white, Presbyterian or Baptist, liberal or conservative, when they're wrong, they're wrong. If they are right, they're right. Period! If something someone says is deceitful or untrue, then it's not true. That's a fact no matter if Michael Horton says it, John says it, Tony Warren says it, Aquatic says it, Pat Robinson says it, Dan says it, Donald Trump says it or if I say it. No one gets a pass to lie and distort because hey might hold the same views that I hold. God word calls for faithful Christians to have integrity and honesty, and to use a even or just balance in dealing with people. That also means Trump doesn't get to lie and his so-called Christian evangelical entourage can use the synonym of it being a "alternative truth" or claim he's getting old. You should know that. Any Christian should know that, but "some Christians" either don't or they pretend they don't know that. We can't be both a honest Christian and a dishonest Christian. That's all I'm saying.

Mt 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt; for the tree is known by his fruit.


Quote
Firstly, please may I ask that you support your above opinion with scripture, stating where we, as Children of the Most High God have permission to repeat those truths to which you refer.

Come on Alexandra. No one needs permission to repeat truths. If they are verifiable truths. Did John the Baptist need permission to repeat the truth about the unlawful activity of his God appointed ruler King Herod?  Did any Old Testament Prophet need permission to say the leader had transgressed God's law? Or is that just a excuse for "some Christians" to attempt to shut up the people they disagree with. Because to be honest, I never once heard any Christian on any Reformed or conservative forum (including this one) once say, conservative Christians should stop talking about the laws, lies, errors and unrighteous things that President Bush, President Clinton or President Obama did. So there is a obvious Double Standard.

Mt 14:3
For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.
4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.

Because John was a faithful and honest Christian who bore witness to the fact that it was not lawful for this ruler to have his brother's wife. May I assume that if you were there you would have berated John and asked him to show you where he had permission to speak or say that "truth" against God's appointed ruler?  If you would not, then I don't think you have justification to say that against God's servants today who say it is not lawful for Trump to be so unlawful, or to say it's unrighteous of evangelicals to make him their political savior and ignore his lies.


Quote
Secondly, how is it that a man of your spiritual maturity really expects Christlikeness and Godliness from a president who openly has denied any comittment that Jesus Christ is the Lord of his life ?  Having radical charismatics lay their hands on him means nothing, or

Thanks, I think. But I believe that it is for the express reason of having a spiritual maturity that I recognize situational ethics, unjustified bias, and personal opinions that often creep into discussions about Christian behavior in different situations.

As for expecting Christ-like behavior from the President, I don't. And I never said I did, in fact just the opposite as I have concentrated on the alleged Christians who seem so enthralled with this man. I didn't expect true Christians to be justifying his deceit, preaching that he's actually a good man, joining these false prophets or so-called evangelicals that so vigorously support what he does, excuse his immorality, and collude with his lack of integrity, implying that the lies he tells are not really lies, just the fake news making it all up (not talking about you of course). That to me is a lack of honesty by professing Christians and like Michael Horton I will not be silent about it no matter who may think it uncalled for. Encouraging righteousness and equity among Christians and warning against these false prophet evangelicals swarming around trump like flies is my duty. In fact, the duty of all Christians.


Quote
Thirdly, I shall repeat a question I had asked shortly after his inauguration .. not to you personally, but it was never responded to.  My question to you is this;  Do you pray for President Trump ?  If not, I remind you that you are obligated to

Sure I do. I believe with all my heart that many of us do. But that doesn't mean I am under wrath of God because I testify that he lies, distorts, misrepresents and is deceitful above any President that I have ever witnessed in the white house. But it seems that just like the Dispensationalists who think that all us Reformed Amillennialists hate Israel, you think because we recognize a terrible and immoral leader, we hate him and wish him ill will. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's no more true than the claims that we hate Israel, or that we're liberals, or that we lack compassion because we say God hates divorce, or we say God says homosexuality is an abomination and against nature. No more than John the Baptists telling his Disciples that it was against God's laws what King Herod had done. I'm doing the same in saying that it is against God's laws what Trump is doing, and what alleged Christians are doing in supporting his actions. I just wish that you and others would try and understand that just because someone despises evil, doesn't mean they hate the people who sin. That's too big a jump to make. God hates sinners, but we preach the truth to sinners that they (maybe) might believe.

Lu 6:27
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

What's the best I can do for Trump? It is to call his wickedness wickedness and pray for him, that God might be merciful unto him. Not Praise him and say how he'll make America great again, and make us all rich, bring Jerusalem back to God's people, find the antichrist, champion the simi-rich downtrodden, bring back respect for the flag, defeat terrorism, or any of the other nonsense that the evangelicals are preaching he's going to do.


Quote
Fourthly, knowing all we do about this man, his flaws and his faults which are published daily and republished through every conceivable media channel available, and from your comments, I have to assume that with all your confession and profession of faith, you feel that God has made a mistake by allowing his, President Trumps post as leader of the American people.

Since that is a question designed to evoke what you already know I will say, I will answer that question with a question. Do you think God made a mistake appointing Hitler to come to rule in Germany? I think I can safely say from reading your posts your answer (like mine) is of course not. So did that mean that the Christians that were in Germany should have remained silent about his genocidal, race baiting, deceitful tactics and in effect blame it on the Lord who appointed him? The answer again (for me) is of course not. We support the President in all things lawful. Therefore you've got to know that there is a difference between God ordaining a leader and God's children blindly following and rubber stamping that wicked leader's vile and destructive acts. Just because there is a despicable and wicked ruler, doesn't mean that his actions are condoned by God, or justified where it cannot be evil spoken of by those who know it is unlawful. Just like John the Baptist.


Quote
I end then by asking, if it is acceptable, what makes you as a man so different from President Trump ?

I would say by grace of God, the Holy Spirit.

The real question should be asked, what makes Trump so different from Christians, and why then are so many "professing" Christians joining him, applauding him, justifying his behavior and praising him? I can only assume that maybe they're not so different from Trump after all, maybe these evangelicals are all of the same family with the same father.

I have not heard or read one single faithful Reformed or Biblical Christian do what these wretched so-called evangelicals are doing. They don't all speak out like Michael Horton, but they show their disdain by distancing themselves from such a man.


Quote
Thanking you and Robert in advance for those scriptures you will support your opinions with.

Alexandra

Just as John the Baptist's words concerning unfaithfulness of leaders wasn't his opinion, so mine aren't. We are symbolized by God as  "The Two Witnesses" because we come with the truth. Not with lies masquerading as alternative facts, but actual truth. I hope that you are aware that integrity is a big part of God's people. If you read your bible you will see that Israel had some times of wicked judges and some times of righteous judges ruling. Not one of them was not ordained by God. And not one of the wicked judges were called righteous by the Lord's servants, but they were called lawless, idolatrous and evil. So it was that when Christ came and spoke to all of us of the wickedness of rulers, but more so of those who called themselves by his name (Israel) but colluded together with the wicked rulers against the truth. Look at this as a lesson.

 Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above; therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Who was Christ reserving the greatest punishment and judgment for? The secular ruler of the land who God appointed to rule, or His own people who took His name and yet conspired and colluded with that wordly ruler in violation of God's word. Same with these so called evangelicals and Christians who are in league with wicked political rulers of our day. They have the much greater sin than Trump, whom faithful Christians know is a child of the Devil.

Melanie

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2017, 08:48:08 AM »
There's only one thing I hate. That I can never call myself evangelical again!  :'(

Chicago Bear

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2017, 12:03:44 PM »
I think the core difference between us and the evangelicals (so-called  ;) ) is free will where they look to themselves and government leaders for their help. This error drives their eschatology as well. At the root of their problem is that they believe that they have to work the system themselves, and that their own labors in this area will pay off in changing this world into a Godly place. That is their fanciful and earthly hope. They might deny it but it's obvious isn't it? Sort of like building a heavenly earth through governmental change. On the other hand, we believe that God is in charge and we cannot either change or fix the world. The world is evil and always will be. We can only preach the gospel that some of the world might change. With us it's not about earthly things, riches or governments, but heavenly things, riches and government. That's why their world is all about vanity, prosperity on this earth, justification by deceit, laboring in the politics of the world, and promoting the nation of Israel as Holy when we all know it isn't. They are so much into this world and not enough into the world to come. So much into the carnal, which they call literal, and not into the spiritual.

The question at hand is are evangelicals false prophets? Well, they're certainly not true prophets so what does that leave true Christians an a honest answer to this submitted question? Am I too judgmental? Not according to the word of God. We all have to choose sides, not as they do, but as God has drawn the line between unrighteousness or righteousness.

Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

Pilgrim

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2017, 03:13:44 PM »
There's only one thing I hate. That I can never call myself evangelical again!  :'(

why?
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." -Matthew 1:21

Red

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2017, 03:48:32 PM »
I  listened to Paula White this morning on Fox News telling the world just how great a Chrisitan president Trump is and it was more than I could stomach! He is our President that I must give him, but attaching that sacred name to (well, to most, if not all politicians) President Trump is blasphemy and a traitor to the truth. I highly respect his position of power, and I do pray for our president, but he would not really appreciate people like myself, who refuse to anoint any person a Christian, who does not honor God by his speech and godly deeds of righteousness in loving those begotten of God and at the SAME time be a despises of those who talk and live ungodly. A true Christian does NOT delight in wickedness and the wicked in any way, nor do we allow sin to give us pleasure or them to entertain us if we can possibly avoid it!
Quote from: Paul
Romans 1:32~"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
"And he shewed me a pure river of water, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."~Revelation 22:1

In the world to come~there WILL BE "pure pleasures"~river/tree=all that is needed to sustain us Forever! Joy, peace, etc.

Sue Landow

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Re: Are Evangelicals False Prophets?
« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2017, 04:16:33 PM »
 )GoodPopst(
"And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened". Luke 13:20-21

 


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