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Author Topic: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18  (Read 283 times)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2015, 09:48:29 PM »
As Reformer said, the Bible states that only God is Savior and so if you say Christ was not God, then logically you don't have a Savior. Do you even know what equal means? If I'm equal to a star, then there is no difference between me and a star. If I'm equal to the President, then there is no difference between me and the President. If I'm equal to God, then there is no difference between me and God. Be rational here.

Terrell Meyer:

The Bible also refers to Jesus Christ by the TITLE "Savior".  The word Savior is a title that is not restricted to Jehovah the Father. 

Jesus Christ said he was given authority from the Father.  So ultimately, it is Almighty God Jehovah doing the saving, but he is doing it by means of or by working through his beloved Son, Jesus Christ. 

Jehovah is the power behind everything Jesus does.  Jesus Christ himself said so.

"Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: 'Most truly I say to you, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing.  For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner." (John 5:19)


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2015, 09:56:27 PM »
Quote from: NeutralZone
The Bible also refers to Jesus Christ by the TITLE "Savior".  The word Savior is a title that is not restricted to Jehovah the Father. 

Actually, Terrell is correct.  We have quoted you Scripture before that refuted your position, NeutralZone. You have problem accept that the verse clearly said that Jehovah God being a Saviour, TOO!   

Isa 43:10-12
(10)  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
(11)  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
(12)  I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

God moved Isaiah to say that HE, too, is a Saviour, like Jesus!  They both are one and the same, our Saviour!  The doctrine of Jehovah's Witness has deceived you.

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2015, 10:23:08 PM »
Quote from: "NeutralZone
Meanwhile, below is Jesus Christ himself stating that he is not equal to God.

"You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you.  If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."  (John 14:28)

I am sorry but you misunderstood what the verse was talking about.

Joh 14:28
(28)  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Why did Jesus say this?  It is because Father is greater than Jesus, not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man, and as man, He was in a LOWER POSITION.

Erik Diamond:

Keep in mind that according to the Trinity formula, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are all supposedly the same god, and they are all three supposedly co-equal and co-eternal.  I quoted Jesus Christ himself, at John 14:28, stating that the Father is greater than he is: proof positive that the Trinity formula is in error and that Jesus Christ is not equal with Jehovah the Father.  But since you insist on talking your way around scripture by telling me what you believe--that because Jesus was in a "lower position," the Father was only temporarily greater than he was at that point in time, below is a question for you:

Jesus has been back in heaven for more than 2,000 years following his resurrection from the dead, so tell me, is he back to being equal to the Father?  Or is he still in a "lower position"?

I will address your other "Trinity" verses in separate posts from time to time--but will not do so until you start answering my questions.  There are five questions in the post below this one.  Thus far, all you have done is cherry-picked portions of verses that do not support what you claim they are saying, while you persist in telling me your personal philosophy.



NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2015, 10:49:52 PM »
Quote from: NeutralZone
The Bible also refers to Jesus Christ by the TITLE "Savior".  The word Savior is a title that is not restricted to Jehovah the Father. 

Actually, Terrell is correct.  We have quoted you Scripture before that refuted your position, NeutralZone. You have problem accept that the verse clearly said that Jehovah God being a Saviour, TOO!   

Isa 43:10-12
(10)  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
(11)  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
(12)  I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

God moved Isaiah to say that HE, too, is a Saviour, like Jesus!  They both are one and the same, our Saviour!  The doctrine of Jehovah's Witness has deceived you.

Erik

Erik Diamond:

If, as you claim, Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same, then you should have no problem explaining why Jesus told the man the following, taken directly from your opening post.

Mark 10:17-18:
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


QUESTION 1:  Are you suggesting that Jesus Christ didn't know that he and Jehovah are "one and the same" when he spoke to the man as he did at Mark 10:17-18? 

QUESTION 2:  Why did Jesus Christ tell the man only God is good and not to refer to him/Jesus as good--being that, according to you, Jesus and Jehovah are "one and the same"?

QUESTION 3:  if Jesus and Jehovah are "one and the same," how do you explain Jesus being human, when the Bible makes it clear that God is not a man?

Numbers 23:19 -- New Living Translation
God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?”

QUESTION 4:  Jesus has been back in heaven for more than 2,000 years following his resurrection from the dead, so tell me, is he back to being equal to the Father?  Or is he still in a "lower position"?

QUESTION 5:  When do you intend to quote scripture where Jesus says he is equal to God--as you claim? 


I will watch for your response to my five questions listed above. 


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Stephanie

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2015, 12:05:22 AM »
Well, several Christians have questioned you about your strange logic and reasoning and I have to join them after reading some of your posts. Because it is illogical to claim that someone was the eternal father, and was EQUAL to God, and yet from the other side of your mouth you claim that he's not God, not good and not the heavenly father. It's clear, you make up your own personal rules and ways to twist scripture as you go along. You're clearly very confused.

Terrell Meyer:

Now you are going overboard.  At no time did I tell anyone on this forum that Jesus Christ is not good. 

You see, this is what I mean when I ask why you talk so foolishly and when others say you are not being logical. Illogical people never think they're being illogical. You just spent an entire post telling us why it couldn't be talking about Christ being God when He asked "why do you call me good", now you turn around and say you never said Christ wasn't good. So then it could be Christ that was saying if this man called him good, he could be calling him God. You're problem is, you're trying to have it both ways. Where Christ is good, and only God is good, but Christ is not God. That's just flat out ridiculous. As you've been shown by many, by his question Jesus meant that  'since you don't believe I'm God, why do you call me good, because there is none good but God.' Instead of a logical response, you reply that you never said Christ wasn't good, meaning you think he is good, meaning that if only God is good, Christ is God. Unless you're being foolish and illogical. You've been sold a bill of goods and you don't want to admit that by the scriptures you've been proven wrong. That's pride, not God fearing  enthusiasm.

 

Stephanie

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2015, 12:08:32 AM »

Erik Diamond:

Keep in mind that according to the Trinity formula, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are all supposedly the same god, and they are all three supposedly co-equal and co-eternal.

You see, once again you give us illogical foolishness as a defense for your heresy. You clearly don't accept God's word as true, claiming he supposedly was equal when scripture clearly says he was equal.

 Philippians 2:5-7
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

What part of that is ambiguous? Christ was in the form of God until he took on the form of a servant in the likeness of man. If you cannot accept God's very own word of Christ's equality in heaven with God and how He changed form to come to earth in the flesh to be a servant of men, then why even call yourself a Christian?

Stephanie

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2015, 12:12:54 AM »
Are you suggesting that Jesus Christ didn't know that he and Jehovah are "one and the same"
NeutralZone

 :Say_what:  Once again, these foolish, illogical comments that are clearly not accurate nor biblical. I guess you only say them in order to pretend you're addressing the issues. But no one is fooled, so why do you persist?

 John 10:30-31
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."

So we see once again that your posts are illogical, since Christ Himself said clearly he and the father were one, disputing your sect's belief that he didn't know this. Of course he knew, he said it plainly and that is why they took up stones to kill him. Because he said he was equal with God.

 John 14:9
 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

So when you make the foolish comment that Jesus Christ didn't know that he and Jehovah are "one and the same," you show your foolishness for all the world to see. In fact, you haven't made one statement that isn't refuted by scripture. Everything you've said is contradicted by scripture.


tony e

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2015, 01:33:27 AM »
Nice passages, I'll add to the dog pile. I haven't seen these passages posted so Ill share.

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another[/b]. Isaiah 48:11
Compare with:
[Jesus speaking] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

Next...
When did Isaiah see Christ's glory? Referring to John 12:41,Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him esv
Isaiah saw Yahweh's glory in Isaiah ch.6. Put that together, John said Isaiah saw Christ's glory, Isaiah said he say Yahweh's glory.
 
and last...
***If Psalm 102:24-27 is referring to Yahweh, then why is the same thing being said to the Son in Hebrews 1:10-12?***
Hebrews 1:8-12
8 ) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10) And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Here is Psalm 102:24-27
24) I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations.
25) Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
26) They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
27) But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.


NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2015, 01:34:17 AM »
Well, several Christians have questioned you about your strange logic and reasoning and I have to join them after reading some of your posts. Because it is illogical to claim that someone was the eternal father, and was EQUAL to God, and yet from the other side of your mouth you claim that he's not God, not good and not the heavenly father. It's clear, you make up your own personal rules and ways to twist scripture as you go along. You're clearly very confused.

Terrell Meyer:

Now you are going overboard.  At no time did I tell anyone on this forum that Jesus Christ is not good. 

You see, this is what I mean when I ask why you talk so foolishly and when others say you are not being logical. Illogical people never think they're being illogical. You just spent an entire post telling us why it couldn't be talking about Christ being God when He asked "why do you call me good", now you turn around and say you never said Christ wasn't good. So then it could be Christ that was saying if this man called him good, he could be calling him God. You're problem is, you're trying to have it both ways. Where Christ is good, and only God is good, but Christ is not God. That's just flat out ridiculous. As you've been shown by many, by his question Jesus meant that  'since you don't believe I'm God, why do you call me good, because there is none good but God.' Instead of a logical response, you reply that you never said Christ wasn't good, meaning you think he is good, meaning that if only God is good, Christ is God. Unless you're being foolish and illogical. You've been sold a bill of goods and you don't want to admit that by the scriptures you've been proven wrong. That's pride, not God fearing  enthusiasm.

Stephanie:

Instead of telling me what you opine as my problem (bolded in purple), and instead telling me your personal philosophy that, to quote you: "if only God is good, Christ is God" (bolded in blue) your best bet is to help Erik Diamond out by explaining to the rest of us why Jesus Christ said the following to someone who referred to him as "Good master."

Mark 10:17-18:
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


If Jesus is in a trinity with God, why did he deny it by telling the man the above?  Explain, please.


The ball is now in your court.


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2015, 02:16:49 AM »

Erik Diamond:

Keep in mind that according to the Trinity formula, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are all supposedly the same god, and they are all three supposedly co-equal and co-eternal.

You see, once again you give us illogical foolishness as a defense for your heresy. You clearly don't accept God's word as true, claiming he supposedly was equal when scripture clearly says he was equal.

Philippians 2:5-7
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

What part of that is ambiguous? Christ was in the form of God until he took on the form of a servant. If you cannot accept God's very own word of Christ's equality in heaven and how He came to earth in the flesh to be a servant of men, then why even call yourself a Christian.


Stephanie:

Wrong.  Jesus Christ distinctly said the Father is greater than he is.

"You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you.  If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."  (John 14:28)

The Bible does not contradict itself.  Your out-of-context verse from Philippians 2:6 does not help your argument, because the verse is not saying that Jesus is equal to God.  It is saying the exact opposite, as I will show you in a separate post. 

You need to take off your Trinitarian lenses when reading scripture.  You are reading into the Bible what you want to see. 



NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2015, 02:26:38 AM »
Philippians 2:5-7
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

What part of that is ambiguous?[/color][/b] Christ was in the form of God until he took on the form of a servant. If you cannot accept God's very own word of Christ's equality in heaven and how He came to earth in the flesh to be a servant of men, then why even call yourself a Christian.

Stephanie:

The expression “being in the form of God" simply refers to Jesus being a spirit person during his pre-human life, before he showed up on earth as a human. 

"GOD IS A SPIRIT, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

All of the angels are in the form of God, because they are all spirits. 


You isolated a few words from an entire chapter of the Bible and ignored everything else that makes up the context.  Philippians 2:7 clearly states that Jesus "was in the likeness of men" (bolded in purple).  The Bible says God is not a man.


Numbers 23:19 -- New Living Translation
God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?”


Numbers 23:19 says God is not human--which is a direct contradiction to the Trinitarian claim that Jesus Christ is "God incarnate" or the human version of God.  Nonsense.


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2015, 03:38:23 AM »
NeutralZone,

I do not know what to say. You are being irrational lately. You have asked questions over and over because you refused to accept our biblical testimonies.  After Reformer, I already gave you all the Scripture that refutes your position and explained it earlier that actually answered your latest questions anyway.  You just don't accept it because of you are brainwashed by Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrines claim that Jesus Christ is NOT God at any time despite what Scripture clearly stated. 

Let move on because I am no longer interested to deal with you again on this subject. I think I have sufficiently answered your questions.

Thank you,

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Daisy

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2015, 07:59:58 AM »
Stephanie:

Instead of telling me what you opine as my problem (bolded in purple), and instead telling me your personal philosophy that, to quote you: "if only God is good, Christ is God" (bolded in blue) your best bet is to help Erik Diamond out by explaining to the rest of us why Jesus Christ said the following to someone who referred to him as "Good master."

The "rest of us" don't need any explaining of what has already been explained many times, it is "you" that just don't seem to get it. Which I'm sure is why Stephanie recognizes you as the illogical person that you are. Because only a illogical person would keep repeating a question that's been answered countless times as if it hasn't.  But for the record, scripture isn't personal philosophy, it's incorruptible truth. Try dealing with it.

Reformer

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2015, 09:07:40 AM »
Nice passages, I'll add to the dog pile. I haven't seen these passages posted so Ill share.

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. Isaiah 48:11
Compare with:
Jesus speaking] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

Next...
When did Isaiah see Christ's glory? Referring to John 12:41,Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him esv
Isaiah saw Yahweh's glory in Isaiah ch.6. Put that together, John said Isaiah saw Christ's glory, Isaiah said he say Yahweh's glory.

Another  :Goodpoint: that will go unanswered because some people are simply brainwashed and indoctrinated so that they don't receive any scripture, even knowing it's true.

Reformer

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2015, 09:08:12 AM »

Stephanie:

Instead of telling me what my problem

Somebody has to. It's called witnessing to God's word. As was said, Deal With It!

 


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