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Author Topic: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18  (Read 222 times)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2015, 12:08:33 PM »
That is a strange way of telling someone you are God.
NeutralZone

 Pr 25:2  It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

 Joh 11:7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.
 8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
 9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
 10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

What a strange way of telling someone of the enlightenment of the Word? No, nothing strange about it. To some it is given to know the mysteries of God's Word, but to others it is not given. Which is why they sought to stone Him, while the called understood He was in fact the Holy one of God.

Reformer:

There is nothing strange about what Jesus said at John 11:7-10.  He was not diverting attention away from what he meant, because he was not saying something that was the opposite of what he meant.  He was quite clear at John 11:7-10 that those who are spiritually enlightened are able to understand and those that are in spiritual darkness are blind.  I got that immediately.  So if you are using John 11:7-10 to try and argue that Jesus Christ's comment at Mark 10:17-18 was merely one of his methods of teaching in riddles, and that Jesus was telling the man he is God--by diverting attention away from himself and directing the man to somebody else--try again. 

John 11:7-10 was quite clear as to what Jesus Christ meant in terms of spiritual light and spiritual darkness, just as Mark 10:17-18 was clear as to Jesus telling the man that he is NOT God when he informed the man as follows:   


Mark 10:17-18:
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2015, 12:20:12 PM »
Any doctrine that teaches our Lord Jesus Christ is not God is heresy. The fact is, if Christ is not your God, then you have no savior, because there is no man who can save anyone.

Psalms 146:3
"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help."

Reformer:

Heresy because it interferes with your man-made philosophy of a 3-in-1 god, while you cannot produce so much as one verse of scripture that says Jesus is God.  From the Bible's standpoint, the heretics are those that insist Jesus is God, when Jesus himself said at Mark 10:17-18 that he is NOT God.

Mark 10:17-18:
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


As I recall, you argued that the pagan-inspired Christmas and Easter celebrations are acceptable to God.  From the Bible's standpoint, those celebrations amount to heresy, because they were taken directly from pagan celebrations and given "Christian" names.


But getting back to your claim that Jesus is God, let's see you talk your way around Mark 10:17-18, where Jesus told the man: "Don't call me good, because the only person who is good is God."


Not only that, it's common knowledge by Bible readers that Jesus Christ became human after his spirit life was transferred into the Virgin Mary.  How do you reconcile Jesus--a human being for 33 years--supposedly being Almighty God, when scripture makes it quite clear that God is not a man?  Give us your take on that?

Numbers 23:19 -- New Living Translation
God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?”

I'll address another of your scriptures later.




NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2015, 12:41:12 PM »
Quote from: NeutralZone
Scripture makes it abundantly clear that God is not a man.

1Jn 4:1-3
(1)  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
(2)  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
(3)  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Erik Diamond:

What point are you attempting to make with the above scriptural quotation?  Those verses are saying that anyone who does not accept that Jesus Christ came from heaven is the antichrist or is against God.  I have made it clear that I believe Jesus Christ came from heaven and that he became human. 

You might want to try those verses on the Muslims who insist Jesus Christ was merely a prophet and that he did not come from heaven.  They believe Jesus was a less important prophet than their Islamic Muhammad.  They don't consider Jesus to be the Messiah, sent by Jehovah to redeem repentant humanity.  In fact, I have debated supposed Christians at other websites who insist that Jesus Christ did not come from heaven.  They claim he was always humans.  You might want to try the above verses on those types of people.  I tried it, and the Muslims and the apostate Christians that I talked to refused to budge from their positions.


Let me make this clear:  I believe exactly what scripture says: That Jesus Christ had a pre-human, spirit life; that he shed his sinless blood to redeem repentant mankind, and that he is the Mediator between Almighty God Jehovah and humans.


1 Timothy 2:5-6
"[5] For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, [6] who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all -- this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times."

I have deep respect for Jesus Christ and the important role he plays in Jehovah's plans.  But scripture makes it clear that he is not in a trinity aka combined into a 3-in-1 god.  That teaching is taken from pagan Roman philosophy.


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 01:42:15 PM »
Joh 10:30-33
(30)  I and my Father are one.
(31)  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
(32)  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
(33)  The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

If Jesus had been lying or deceived, His statement would have been blasphemous. In fact, the only way His Words were NOT blashpemy is if Jesus was telling the Truth about His equality with God. 

And Bible does say that Jesus Christ that was given to us as Mighty God and Everlasting Father Himself:

Isa 9:6
(6)  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He is indeed God Himself... born unto flesh.

Consider wisely:

Joh 1:1
(1)  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14
(14)  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word is Jesus Christ who is God Himself made Flesh. How can you deny this?  That is why if you deny Christ came in the flesh is OF GOD, you are the one that God warned:

1Jn 4:1-3
(1)  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
(2)  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
(3)  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

And Jesus confirmed that He is "I AM"

Joh 8:57-59
(57)  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
(58)  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(59)  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

This is confirmed by what Moses wrote:

Exo 3:13-14
(13)  And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
(14)  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jesus who is God Himself, came in flesh as a mediator on our behalf between HIMSELF, who is also Father in Heaven, and us.  He did everything for our salvation.  That is why Jesus Christ is our only Savior and God HImself said He is that Savior!

Isa 43:10-11
(10)  Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
(11)  I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 

Either you receive or deny what God clearly said in Scripture.  He is Jesus Christ, came in Flesh as God, the Great I AM.  Praying for you.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 02:45:48 PM »
Joh 10:30-33
(30)  I and my Father are one.
(31)  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
(32)  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
(33)  The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Erik Diamond:

You are cherry-picking the usual supposed "Trinity" verses and ignoring context.  The context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters) to John 10:30 makes it evident that Jesus Christ was merely saying he and his heavenly share UNITY OF PURPOSE.  Proof of that is when Jesus Christ used the exact same language when referring to a group of his disciples.  Notice below what Jesus said in prayer to his heavenly Father, Jehovah.

John 17:20-22
"20 I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that THEY MAY ALL BE ONE, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order the world may believe that you sent me forth. 22 Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."


Are you telling everybody reading this thread that when Jesus said the following to Jehovah concerning his disciples "that they may ALL be one" he meant that all his followers should become a single person?   Or does logic tell you that he was asking his heavenly Father that the disciples be likewise UNITED in purpose, just as he and his heavenly Father, Jehovah, are united in purpose?  Notice the comparisons below when the context is paid attention to.

John 10:30:  "I and my Father are one."


John 17:21 (Jesus to Jehovah concerning all of his disciples): "in order that they may ALL be one. . . ."


John 17:22 (Jesus drives the point home and again says this to Jehovah concerning all of his disciples): "in order that they may be one just as we are one"

 
I will address another of your supposed Trinity verses at another time.




NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2015, 03:42:43 PM »
If Jesus had been lying or deceived, His statement would have been blasphemous. In fact, the only way His Words were NOT blashpemy is if Jesus was telling the Truth about His equality with God.

Erik Diamond:

When do you plan to quote Jesus where he clearly speaks of his "equality with God"?  I would be interested to see such a quotation from the Judeo-Christian Bible.


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2015, 03:59:21 PM »
And Bible does say that Jesus Christ that was given to us as Mighty God and Everlasting Father Himself:

Isa 9:6
(6)  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

He is indeed God Himself... born unto flesh.

Erik Diamond:

The Bible does indeed refer to Jesus as "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" at Isaiah 9:6, but at no time does it say he is ALMIGHTY God, which is a far cry from "Mighty" God. 

The word "Almighty" refers to someone with absolute power over everybody else.

Quote
Full Definition of ALMIGHTY
often capitalized :  having absolute power over all <Almighty God>
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/almighty

Only Jehovah the Father is ever referred to as "Almighty"--throughout the entire Bible.  Why?  Because Jehovah has absolute power over all things and over all persons.  Jesus, himself acknowledged that the Father is greater than he is.

"You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you.  If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."  (John 14:28)


I accept what Jesus Christ says.  Since you don’t, whose problem is that?


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Stephanie

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2015, 04:04:17 PM »
Quote from: NeutralZone
Scripture makes it abundantly clear that God is not a man.

1Jn 4:1-3
(1)  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
(2)  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
(3)  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 :amen:   :God:Bl-U: 
The antichrist Spirit is alive and well and trying to deceive man with his forked tongue.

Stephanie

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2015, 04:05:45 PM »
Erik Diamond:

The Bible does indeed refer to Jesus as "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" at Isaiah 9:6, but at no time does it say he is ALMIGHTY God, which is a far cry from "Mighty" God. 
NeutralZone

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.   :Say_what:

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2015, 05:26:42 PM »
Erik Diamond:

The Bible does indeed refer to Jesus as "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" at Isaiah 9:6, but at no time does it say he is ALMIGHTY God, which is a far cry from "Mighty" God. 
NeutralZone

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.   :Say_what:

 :smileyBounce:   :laugh:  :laugh:  :iagree: 

Stephanie

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2015, 05:50:28 PM »

Erik Diamond:

You are cherry-picking the usual supposed "Trinity" verses and ignoring context.  The context (surrounding words, verses, and chapters)

NeutralZone

Why do you talk so foolishly? The context of all the passages is that Christ was in heaven with God, was God and was made flesh. If anyone is ignoring the context of all verses it is very obviously you. But you are not fooling anyone but yourself. We can read and we can comprehend what we read. Apparently, you cannot. If the word was with God, and the word was God, and the word was made flesh, how is the word then not God? It's foolish to make such a claim. Take that nonsense to the Jehovah witnesses, not to Christians.


Terrell Meyer

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2015, 06:14:58 PM »
If Jesus had been lying or deceived, His statement would have been blasphemous. In fact, the only way His Words were NOT blashpemy is if Jesus was telling the Truth about His equality with God.

Erik Diamond:

When do you plan to quote Jesus where he clearly speaks of his "equality with God"?  I would be interested to see such a quotation from the Judeo-Christian Bible.
NeutralZone

Well, several Christians have questioned you about your strange logic and reasoning and I have to join them after reading some of your posts. Because it is illogical to claim that someone was the eternal father, and was EQUAL to God, and yet from the other side of your mouth you claim that he's not God, not good and not the heavenly father. It's clear, you make up your own personal rules and ways to twist scripture as you go along. You're clearly very confused.

As Reformer said, the Bible states that only God is Savior and so if you say Christ was not God, then logically you don't have a Savior. Do you even know what equal means? If I'm equal to a star, then there is no difference between me and a star. If I'm equal to the President, then there is no difference between me and the President. If I'm equal to God, then there is no difference between me and God. Be rational here.

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2015, 09:22:29 PM »
If Jesus had been lying or deceived, His statement would have been blasphemous. In fact, the only way His Words were NOT blashpemy is if Jesus was telling the Truth about His equality with God.

Erik Diamond:

When do you plan to quote Jesus where he clearly speaks of his "equality with God"?  I would be interested to see such a quotation from the Judeo-Christian Bible.
NeutralZone

Well, several Christians have questioned you about your strange logic and reasoning and I have to join them after reading some of your posts. Because it is illogical to claim that someone was the eternal father, and was EQUAL to God, and yet from the other side of your mouth you claim that he's not God, not good and not the heavenly father. It's clear, you make up your own personal rules and ways to twist scripture as you go along. You're clearly very confused.

Terrell Meyer:

Quote me where I said anything resembling Jesus was "equal to God."  Erik Diamond was the one who made such a claim at Post 37 in this thread, which you quoted above and which I bolded in light blue.  It was to that claim by Erik Diamond that I responded (at Post 39 which is also quoted above), and therein I ask him to present scripture that says Jesus is equal to God.  You translated my request to Erik Diamond by now claiming that I said Jesus is equal to God.  I said nothing of the kind.

Tell you what:   Perhaps you and Reformer would like to help out Erik Diamond by quoting at least one verse of scripture from the entire Bible where it clearly says Jesus is equal to the Father aka Almighty God Jehovah.  Meanwhile, below is Jesus Christ himself stating that he is not equal to God.

"You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you.  If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."  (John 14:28)



NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

NeutralZone

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2015, 09:38:53 PM »
Well, several Christians have questioned you about your strange logic and reasoning and I have to join them after reading some of your posts. Because it is illogical to claim that someone was the eternal father, and was EQUAL to God, and yet from the other side of your mouth you claim that he's not God, not good and not the heavenly father. It's clear, you make up your own personal rules and ways to twist scripture as you go along. You're clearly very confused.

Terrell Meyer:

Now you are going overboard.  At no time did I tell anyone on this forum that Jesus Christ is not good.  From a human standpoint, he is a good person.  But from Jesus' own viewpoint, he was not worthy of being called "Good master" because he considered his heavenly Father/Almighty God Jehovah to be the ultimate example of "good."  In fact, the opening poster even quoted Jesus denying he is God when Jesus informed someone as follows:

Mark 10:17-18:
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? [18] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.


Now, if you have an issue with what Jesus Christ himself said to the man: namely, that he is not God because only God is good--that is hardly my problem; now is it? 


NeutralZone
". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

Erik Diamond

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Re: Why Callest Thou Me Good? - Mark 10:18
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2015, 09:45:13 PM »
Quote from: "NeutralZone
Meanwhile, below is Jesus Christ himself stating that he is not equal to God.

"You heard that I said to you, I am going away and I am coming back to you.  If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am."  (John 14:28)

I am sorry but you misunderstood what the verse was talking about.

Joh 14:28
(28)  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Why did Jesus say this?  It is because Father is greater than Jesus, not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man, and as man, He was in a LOWER POSITION.

Heb 2:9
(9)  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Php 2:5-8
(5)  Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
(6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(7)  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
(8 )  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

See, Jesus has two natures. Jesus IS both God and man.  As a man, Jesus was in a lesser position than the Father. Therefore the Father is greater than Christ but being fulness of the Godhead bodily, He had to added to Himself HUMAN NATURE so He as God become a man (flesh) to die for people. That is how our salvation requires it by God Himself.

Col 2:8-9
(8 )  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
(9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Maybe a helpful analogy would be like this:  In Christian marriage, where two flesh becomes one, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife, but, he is no different in nature, and he is no better than she. They share the same nature--being human, and they work together by love. That is what the relationship between God and His Son is like. So likewise, we, as Elect, are a Bride to Christ.  We will have nature like Christ as His Wife and a joint-heir, but Christ is greater than us because He is Kings of kings and Lord of lords.   

In John 14:28, Christ was simply acknowledging that He was also a man, and as a man, He was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law, namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5). Because His Father, in His glorified state, is greater than Jesus as man.

Have read all your posts, NeutralZone, you have already denied the Scripture I presented and explained it. Like I said, I will be praying for you. 

Erik
 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

 


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