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Author Topic: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts  (Read 9604 times)

Paul

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What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« on: September 06, 2003, 07:23:04 PM »
hasn't god given us every type of food we need to live on this earth.all the fruits vegetables  clean animals  and the other foods from the earth he created for us which are full of goodness.so why come so many people insist on eating whats not good for them which does so much bad to their bodies which god has given them.why come we indulge in all the man made foods with all the artificial ingredients why can't we just be grateful for what god has given us.he tells us in leviticus 11 and again in deuteronomy 14 that not everything that can be devoured is meant to be.surely he gives us these instructions so that we can serve him with a healthy mind ,body and soul.
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Rebel

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2003, 07:33:09 AM »
Hi  Paul,

What  you  say  is  similar  to  what  Seventh  Day  Adventists  teach,  only  they  don't  eat  any  meat!  That's  fine  but  choosing  to  eat  "unclean"  animals  is  fine  too.  Nobody  should  feel  bad  about  eating  pork  and  shrimp  because  what  we  eat  really  doesn't  matter  to  God.

Mat 15:11  Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Jesus  is  more  concerned  with  what's  in  our  hearts  than  what's  in  our  bellies.  What  Christians  choose  to  eat  or  not  eat  is  their  own  business  and  nobody  can  judge  them  for  their  diet.  If  you  want  to  be  a  vegetarian  or  just  eat  clean  foods,  that's  okay  with  me.  If  you  want  to  eat  a  bunch  of  cholesterol  and  fat,  it's  your  funeral!  Me?  I  actually  do  prefer  the  taste  of  turkey  bacon  and  ham  to  pork.  But  I  don't  have  a  problem  with  eating  pork  if  that's  what  the  Lord  provides.  And  I  love  seafood.  I  agree  that  it's  not  good  to  indulge  in  tons  of  fast  food  and  sweets  but  there's  nothing  wrong  with  eating  them.  Christians  should  be  able  to  eat  what  is  set  before  them  without  feeling  guilty.

Rom 14:1  Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2  For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3  Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
                     Rom 14:4  Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7  For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9  For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10  But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11  For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12  So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.
Rom 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
Rom 14:15  But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16  Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18  For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence. Rom 14:21  [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22  Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

So  if  you  personally  do  not  feel  comfortable  eating  what  was  forbidden  in  Old  Testament  Law,  go  ahead  and  stop  eating  it.  My  family  and  I  also  struggled  with  this  issue  but  thanks  to  the  apostle  Paul  and  Jesus  Christ's  own  words,  we  feel  free  to  eat  whatever  God  puts  in  front  of  us.  But  if  you  ever  came  to  my  house,  if  you  like  I'll  never  serve  you  pork  or  rabbit.  Okay?   :)

     1Co 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

     Yiiiiikes!  I  haven't  had  my  daily  does  of . . .   JUNK  FOOD! AAAAAHHHHH!  I  have  to  get  to  church  and  get  into  the  peppermints!  Yum  yum  yum,  and  then  have  a  Checkers  shake  on  the  way  home.  You  all  should  know  the  four  basic  food  groups  for  teens:  Chips,  Candies,  Cookies  and  Cake.  WHAT?  You've  never  heard  of  that  before?  Yeah,  that's  common  among  adults.  I'm  still  spreading  the  word  around.  It  came  from  a  reliable  source,  didn't  it?  (me.) ;D
     Okay  okay,  I'll  be  a  good  girl  and  eat  my  vegetables.  And  I'll  stop  rambling  about  my  eating  habits.  'Bye,  Paul.
   
 Grace  be  with  you,
                                  Rebel  <><
P.S:  And  I  don't  go  to  church  just  so  I  can  eat  peppermints!
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

Chris

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2003, 07:49:32 AM »

Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

    "Deo  Valente"


Rebel,  Who is Deo Valente?


Paul

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2003, 08:11:41 AM »
if god didn't want us to obey these laws why did he give them to moses to teach us the same man he gave the ten commandments.and if god is not bothered what we put in our bodies how come these things which god didn't create to go in our bodies do our bodies so much harm.surely god has created all that our bodies needs why should we neglect these in favour of what man created or what we say is good.i am not trying to judge anyone i would just to know why some things written in the bible which were obviously put there for a reason are ignored or seen as less important than others.
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Rebel

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2003, 08:16:27 AM »
Quote
Rebel,  Who is Deo Valente?

Hello  Chris,

It's  actually  not  a  who,  it  is  a  phrase.  It's  Latin.  It  means,  "Lord  Willing."  Tony  Warren  has  a  Latin  phrase  on  his  signature  so  I  thought  it  would  be  neat  if  I  had  one  too.  My  pastor  said  those  words  once  a  couple  months  ago  and  translated  them.  They  stuck  in  my  head  so  I  put  them  on  my  signature  as  a  constant  reminder  to  me  that  everything  happens  according  to  God's  will,  not  mine.

The  sentence  above  it  is  part  of  the  lyrics  of  a  Rebecca  St.  James  song  that  also  got  stuck  in  my  head.
Want  another  Latin  phrase?  This  one's  one  of  my  favorites.  Every  good  reformer  should  know  this  one:  Soli  Deo  Gloria!  To  God  alone  be  the  glory!
     Grace  be  with  you,
                                      Rebel  <><
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

Rebel

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2003, 03:51:04 PM »
Quote
if god didn't want us to obey these laws why did he give them to moses to teach us the same man he gave the ten commandments.and if god is not bothered what we put in our bodies how come these things which god didn't create to go in our bodies do our bodies so much harm.surely god has created all that our bodies needs why should we neglect these in favour of what man created or what we say is good.i am not trying to judge anyone i would just to know why some things written in the bible which were obviously put there for a reason are ignored or seen as less important than others.


Well  Paul,  it  turns  out  that  Christians  are  not  bound   by  the  Ten  Commandments  either.  Let  me  explain.
     All  the  old  testament  laws  are  fulfilled  in  Christ  so  we  are  no  longer  bound  by  them.  That  includes  the  Ten  Commandments.  In  a  different  thread  there  was  a  discussion  about  sabbath  law.  Why  do  we  worship  on  Sunday  if  the  Ten  Commandments  say  to  keep  the  sixth  day  as  a  sabbath?
     It's  because  the  sabbath  was  fulfilled  in  Christ,  is  not  a  moral  law  and  worshiping  on  Sunday  has  nothing  to  do  with  the  sabbath.  We  don't  keep  the  old  testament  sabbath  anymore  because  Christ  has  fulfilled  it.  It's  the  same  with  all  the  other  old  ceremonial  laws  and  traditions.  If  we  start  trying  to  keep  the  old  law,  then  we  will  be  judged  by  it  and  come  up  short!  We're  not  under  the  law  anymore.

     Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

     Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

     Rom 7:8  But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

     Rom 7:9  For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

     Without  the  law  we  do  not  have  to  be  judged  for  our  sin.  If  we  put  ourselves  under  the  law  then  we'll  have  to  do  it  perfectly.  But  we  are  not  able  to  do  that.  So  because  Christ  kept  the  law  perfectly  for  us,  we  don't  have  to.  We  are  clothed  with  the  righteousness  of  Christ.

     But  you  ask  a  good  question.  Why  do  we  keep  the  laws  prohibiting  murder  and  adultery  and  stealing,  but  we  ignore  sabbath  laws  and  clean/unclean  animal  laws?  Because  the  laws  against  murder  and  such  are  moral  laws  and  the  sabbath  and  food  laws  are  ceremonial  laws.  There  is  a  big  difference.  The  moral  laws  are  reinforced  in  the  New  Testament  so  we  know  for  sure  we  are  to  keep  them.
     Murder  condemned---  Rom 1:29
     Stealing,  adultery,  homosexuality,  covetousness,  idolatry  condemned---  1Co 6:9-10
     Disrespect  to  parents  condemned---  Romans  1:30
     Lying  condemned---  Col  3:9
     Swearing  condemned---  James  5:12
     Sabbath  breaking  condemned---?  NO!
     Eating  unclean  meat  condemned---?  NO!
     Breaking  ceremonial  law  condemned---?  NO!

     And  you  can  find  the  moral  laws  listed  as  the  commandments  we  are  to  follow  in  Mat  19:18  and  Rom  13:9.  The  sabbath  law  is  not  among  them  and  neither  is  the  clean/unclean  meat  law.  On  the  contrary,  the  apostle  Paul  says  we  are  free  to  eat  whatever  we  like  as  long  as  we  glorify  the  Lord  in  doing  so.  If  we  were  still  to  keep  the  old  laws,  why  would  Paul  say  something  like  that?  
     So  we  don't  actually  follow  the  Ten  Commandments.  We  just  display  them  as  a  symbol  of  God's  authority.  Putting  them  out  in  public  convicts  people  that  they  are  still  under  the  law  and  are  in  need  of  God's  grace.
     So  as  long  as  we  are  under  grace,  the  old  law  does  not  apply  to  us.  The  law  was  actually  made  so  that  people  could  realize  that  they'll  never  measure  up  to  God's  standards  unless  they  trust  in  Christ.  By  the  law  we  see  our  sin.
     Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

     We  obey  the  moral  laws  because  they  are  reinforced  in  the  New  Testament.  We  don't  keep  ceremonial  laws  because  they  are  not  reinforced  in  the  New  Testament.

     As  for  eating  'unclean'  food  being  harmful  for  us,  it's  our  responsibility  not  to  overdo  it  so  much  that  it  does  hurt  our  bodies.  When  you  really  think  about  it,  too  much  of  anything  can  be  harmful.

1Co 6:12  All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

     We  are  to  do  things  in  moderation,  including  eating.  All  things  are  lawful  for  us  but  we  are  not  to  be  brought  under  the  power  of  any.  We  may  be  allowed  to  eat  anything  we  like  but  that  doesn't  mean  we  should  "pig"  out.  That  is  what  will  do  our  bodies  tons  of  harm.
     A  little  pork  never  hurt  anyone.  A  lot  can  kill.  But  even  though  we  should  be  careful  how  much  of  it  we  eat,  we  should  not  take  a  legalistic  approach  to  this.  That's  where  the  Pharisees  ran  into  a  lot  of  trouble  and  Jesus  sure  had  some  words  with  them  about  it . . .  ;)
     Grace  be  with  you  all,
                                            Rebel  <><
     
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

Paul

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2003, 04:46:50 PM »
what jesus says in matthew 5v17-20 is he has come to fulfill the prophesies and the laws not change them and that no man should break them or teach otherwise until all be fulfilled and i don't believe all will be fulfilled until christs second coming.and in matthew 15 what jesus is talking about is the fact that man should not judge one another as they called the elders unclean for not washing their hands when they ate bread he was talking of a different uncleaness not unclean beasts.in romans 14 they are again not talking of unclean beasts as unclean beasts would have not been classed as meat by law.they were talking of meat which was called meat then-which was lawful.and if he was not talking of unclean meat which they had all grown up to know was unlawful if he was wouldn't he have made it clear like his father did.i don't think unclean beasts even came into these topics as these people knew the laws and the scriptures and lived by them.as for the sabbath and any other commandments that's another topic.
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Rebel

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2003, 07:14:05 PM »
Quote
what jesus says in matthew 5v17-20 is he has come to fulfill the prophesies and the laws not change them
    Well  that's  true  at  least.  The  laws  never  changed.  They're  still  there  and  everyone  outside  of  Christ  will  be  judged  by  them.  But  we  won't  be  judged  by  them  because  Jesus  kept  them  all  for  us,  Ten  Commandments  and  all.  They  didn't  go  anywhere  but  the  work  has  been  done  by  Christ.  Now  He  has  laid  down  a  moral  code  for  us  to  follow  in  the  NT  and  all  the  laws  in  it  are  matters  of  the  heart.  And  that's  what's  really  important  to  God.  Listen  carefully,  we  are  not,  I  repeat,  NOT  under  the  law,  but  under  grace.  That  doesn't  mean  we  can  just  do  whatever  we  want.  The  Apostle  Paul  addresses  that  quite  nicely  in  Romans  6:14-16.  
     
Quote
and in matthew 15 what jesus is talking about is the fact that man should not judge one another as they called the elders unclean for not washing their hands when they ate bread he was talking of a different uncleaness not unclean beasts.
    But  it's  the  same  principle.  What  goes  into  a  man's  mouth  doesn't  defile  him,  simple  as  that.  Did  He  say,  "It's  not  what  a  man  puts  into  his  mouth  without  washing  his  hands  that  defiles  him?"  No.
Some  things  are  not  meant  to  be  taken  out  of  context  but  I  believe  this  scripture  can  apply  to  unclean  beasts  as  well.
     
Quote
in romans 14 they are again not talking of unclean beasts as unclean beasts would have not been classed as meat by law.they were talking of meat which was called meat then-which was lawful.
   
     No,  the  apostle  Paul  was  talking  about  ALL  things.  He  made  that  quite  clear.
     Rom 14:2  For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

     All  things,  not  all  meats.  

     
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i don't think unclean beasts even came into these topics as these people knew the laws and the scriptures and lived by them.

     Nice  try.  Aren't  you  forgetting  something?  These  are  Romans!  Gentiles!  There  were  most  likely  Jews  in  the  congregation  as  well  but  Gentiles  wouldn't  be  familiar  with  Jewish  customs  and  ceremonial  laws.  And  when  the  Jews  tried  to  bring  them  under  subjection  to  these  laws,  the  apostle  Paul  came  down  pretty  hard  on  them.  If  clean  and  unclean  animals  were  really  an  issue  to  God,  why  didn't  He  inform  the  Gentiles  of  this?  Even  circumcision  was  regarded  as  a  law  unnecessary  to  obey  even  though  it  was  a  part  of  the  Old  Testament  law.

Gen 17:10  This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11  And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12  And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13  He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14  And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

     See?  Anyone  who  broke  this  law  would  die!  Yet  the  Gentiles  were  allowed  to  break  it  without  any  punishment.  What  changed?  Is  the  law  still  there? Sure  it  is  but  we  are  not  bound  by  it.  The  only  reason  the  apostle  Paul  even  brought  up  circumcision  was  because  Jews  were  trying  to  force  it  on  Gentiles  and  it  was  becoming  a  problem.  But  what  did  he  tell  them?  He  said  they  were  free  from  the  law  and  had  been  spiritually  circumcised.  They  no  longer  had  to  keep  the  old  commandments.

     Now  Paul,  if  you  still  insist  that  you  must  keep  the  old  testament  laws,  besides  abstaining  from  'unclean'  meats,  you  will  also  have  to:

     Never  cook  a  goat  in  its  mother's  milk.

     Never  shave  your  beard.

     Rest  on  the  sabbath  day  (that  means  NO  work,  not  even  picking  up  sticks.)

     Keep  the  passover.

     Camp  out  in  a  stick  house  for  an  extended  period  of  time.

     Wear  long  tassles  on  your  robe  (yes,  I  said  robe!)

     Never  wear  two  kinds  of  fabric  mixed  together.

     And  on  and  on  and  on.

     See  what  I'm  getting  at?  You  wanna  keep  one  part,  you  gotta  keep  it  all!  All  613  points  of  it.  And  if  you  break  one,  you've  broken  them  all!  You  have  to  keep  them  perfectly.  Do  you  think  you're  up  to  that?  If  so,  then  congratulations!  You're  perfect.  I  think  I'd  rather  trust  in  the  righteousness  of  Christ.

     
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as for the sabbath and any other commandments that's another topic.


     No  it's  not.  The  sabbath,  circumcision  and  clean/unclean  laws  are  all  ceremonial  and  have  been  fulfilled  in  Christ.  He  did  it  right,  the  whole  thing  and  His  righteousness  is  imputed  onto  us.  God  doesn't  care  about  meat  or  drink.  He  cares  about  what's  in  your  heart.  And  if  your  heart  is  right  when  you  decide  not  to  eat  'unclean'  meat,  you  do  well.  It's  all  about  the  heart.
     Paul,  I  know  how  easy  it  is  to  get  caught  up  in  legalism  and  such.  We  all  tend  to  do  that  every  now  and  then.  I  guess  it  comes  from  a  desire  to  be  pure  and  to  please  God.  And  that's  a  good  thing.  But  if  we  try  to  keep  the  old  law,  we  will  fail.  We  have  no  choice  but  to  trust  in  Jesus  and  Jesus  alone.  The  law  was  there  to  convict  us  of  our  sins  and  show  us  that  we've  fallen  short.  And  that  just  points  us  right  back  to  Christ.  

     Grace  be  with  you  all,
                                            Rebel  <><
Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

     "Deo  Valente"

Paul

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2003, 07:23:22 PM »
we were created to serve God ,God is the master,why would he change his laws because we find them inconvenient God sent his Son to show us he can forgive us if we're really sorry and that we should also forgive our brother who may offend us and that we should not judge him if he sins against God because that is between him and God and he will be judged by God accordingly.God gave us our bodies as well as our minds we should not polute our minds with the ways of man neither should we polute our bodies.Gods words are the most important and if mans words appear to differ to Gods we should compare mans words to Gods not compare Gods word to mans and dismiss Gods words because mans words seem to say differrent.Romans 3v31 do we then make void the law through faith?God forbid,yea,we establish the law.                         for works alone shall not save us we must also  have faith.Yes the laws never changed but we will be judged by them by our Father in heaven who all things are accountable to.Jesus who was sent to die for our sins and if we believe and are truly sorry we can be forgiven but if we are not sorry and think we have done no wrong how can we be forgiven.Romans 6v14-16 yes because now we will not be instantly  punished or put to death for our sins for by the grace of God we shall be saved.we are not under the the law as before because breaking any law we would have been have punished now by faith in the Lord Jesus we may be forgiven.Romans 6v23 for the wages of sin is death ,but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.in matthew 15 Jesus condemns them for judging their brother because they felt it unclean to wash not their hands while eating.Jesus 'says to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man' He mentions nothing about unclean beasts and neither do the pharisees it crosses neither of their minds as they both knew the laws of unclean  beasts and respected them.i think the pharisees would have had some questions had Jesus been talking of unclean beasts.Jesus also said 'every plant which my father hath not planted shall be rooted up' was this a warning for things to come as now man is trying to grow plants artificially against nature against Gods will.Romans 14v2 paul was actually talking of all thinks they were custom to such as clean animals and earthly foods(herbs)if he were talking of all things that would include all thinks such as vermin, earth, human or animal waste need i go on.if we were talking about someone eating  all things we wouldn't be including somethings like dogs ,cats ,vermin because we dont class them as food in our culture .although where are you from.you get my point though dont you.'For one believeth that he may eat all things(that God intended ,clean beasts and herbs earthly foods).another who is weak eateth herbs (he's weak because he thinks eating a living creature might be dirty or cruel or unatural in some way when God has told him he may eat the animals ).if paul was really talking of unclean beasts he would have said 'for one believeth that he may eat all things another who is weak eateth only the clean beasts and herbs as said in the old laws'.why wouldn't the romans have known the laws it must have been many centuries since the days of moses.on circumcision where did it say anyone who broke the law would die . Jesus would have been  circumcised because it's Gods will but any other man who's circumcised it wouldn't make him holy or without sin or saved but if he had faith and repented he would be saved and it would please God if he was circumcised.God didn't just give us the laws of unclean beasts so we should obey him it is also benificial to our bodies and health and some even say our minds if we just eat what's natural what God created for us to eat from the beginning.ecspecially now with man attempting to create foods animals and even humans with their own hands.i just think Gods way is the right way for our minds for our bodies for the people around us and for our own salvation.amen.
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Mike Repass

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2003, 11:12:27 AM »
paul
Re:unclean beasts and man made foods.
Reply #8 on: September 09, 2003, 05:23:22 PM
Romans 14v2 paul was actually talking of all thinks they were custom to such as clean animals and earthly foods(herbs)if he were talking of all things that would include all thinks such as vermin, earth, human or animal waste need i go on.if we were talking about someone eating  all things we wouldn't be including somethings like dogs ,cats ,vermin because we dont class them as food in our culture .

What about their culture? The letter is addressed to the Romans. What about a culture that does eat dogs? Are we talking about carnal things or spiritual?

Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.   28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Genesis 9: 1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.   2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.   3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Let's not put words into Paul's mouth. All means all, not some.

Romans 2:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.  

meat
New Testament Greek Definition:
1033 broma {bro'-mah}
from the base of 977; TDNT - 1:642,111; n n
AV - meat 16, victual 1; 17
1) that which is eaten, food

shall be meat
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0402 'oklah {ok-law'}
from 0401; TWOT - 85b; n f
AV - meat 8, devour 3, fuel 3, eat 2, consume 1, food 1; 18
1) food
1a) food, eating
1b) object of devouring, consuming
1b1) by wild beasts (figurative)
1b2) in fire
1b3) of judgment (figurative)

Paul

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2003, 01:50:27 PM »
if your interpretation is true why did he write these words beforehand'do we then make the law void through faith?God forbid,yea,we establish the law.                                                                  also where does it say paul ate any unclean animals.                                                                  and would not paul be contridicting to the words in matthew 17-20                                                                           and in romans 14v2 why didn't it class those who only ate clean beasts as weak also.                                                                        and where would the genetically modified foods fit into pauls words.                                                                     and what did this verse actually mean'every plant,which my Heavenly Father hath not  planted,shall be rooted up.'                                                
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Mike Repass

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2003, 02:55:02 PM »
what did this verse actually mean'every plant,which my Heavenly Father hath not  planted,shall be rooted up.'                                              

Matt 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.   12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?   13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.   14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.    15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.   16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?   17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?   18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.   19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:   20 These are [the things] which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.   5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:   6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.   7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.  

Matt. 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:   25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.   26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.  

Matt. 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.   37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;   38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];   39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.   40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.   41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;   42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.  



Paul

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2003, 05:54:00 PM »
you didn't really answer my questions ,when did anybody actually eat of unclean beasts in the new testament , what about man made foods ,artificially inhanced artificially grown, steriods,drugs,cigarettes, pills(hormone replacements to help make a man look like a woman)i know some of these weren't actually around then but would you include these they all go in through the mouth at least did until we had needles.what about the drugs around then strong drink , magic mushrooms ,opium,marijuana.    
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Mike Repass

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2003, 05:31:37 PM »
unclean beasts and man made foods.
on: September 06, 2003, 05:23:04 PM
hasn't god given us every type of food we need to live on this earth.all the fruits vegetables  clean animals  and the other foods from the earth he created for us which are full of goodness.so why come so many people insist on eating whats not good for them which does so much bad to their bodies which god has given them.why come we indulge in all the man made foods with all the artificial ingredients why can't we just be grateful for what god has given us.


Re:unclean beasts and man made foods.
Reply #12 on: September 10, 2003, 03:54:00 PM
steriods,drugs,cigarettes, pills(hormone replacements to help make a man look like a woman)i know some of these weren't actually around then but would you include these they all go in through the mouth at least did until we had needles.what about the drugs around then strong drink , magic mushrooms ,opium,marijuana.


Forgive me if I a confused, but are we talking about food or something else. I took your original post to mean food. Breakfest, Lunch, Dinner and all meals between. The other things you list may be digested, inhaled or injected but are not classified as food. As far as strong drink is concerned: scripture says that we should not drink to excess as to be drunk. I would think that a drug that is taken for another use than prescribed for an illness would be classified as in excess.

Eph. 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.   7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.   8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:   9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)   10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.   11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].   12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.   13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.   14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.   15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,   16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.   17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord [is].   18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;   19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;   20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;   21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Paul

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Re: What About the Law of Clean and Unclean Meats and Beasts
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2003, 07:29:56 PM »
sorry if i confused you ,i confuse myself sometimes.but you said paul was talking of all things and what i was saying was that wouldn't  have included unclean beasts cause they weren't classed as food.but if paul was talking of all things then that would mean all things even that which wasn't classed as food so then the question is what wouldn't you class as food.as for marijuana it's a herb and may be eaten like any other herb.magic mushrooms are a fungi which i wouldn't class as a food but they may be eaten like any other mushroom.they may effect your mind aswell as your body but who's to say other types of food don't effect your mind also.what about steriods they may not be classed as food but they may be eaten and give energy like food does.people may take vitamin pills or other types of pills as a substitute for some types of food.what are you views on genetically modified foods.
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 


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