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Author Topic: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?  (Read 16738 times)

Reformer

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #60 on: November 12, 2013, 08:12:50 AM »
Quote
Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?


If he kept his vow he did. Which should be the only question here.

I also noticed that one translation has tried to read into the text to make it either, or. Young's Literal Translation (YLT) has rendered it "or". I know that it can be translated "and" or be translated "or," but like the words angel and messenger, in this context it obviously should be translated "and," which most everyone else does. If you put an "or" in that sentence, it doesn't agree with structure nor even ring true.

"Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering."

The "and" is a continuation of the thought, not linking another completely different thought. Clearly to select "or" instead of "and" would only be for one reason. To change the vow, and not to translate the text the most obvious and best way with regard to context of what is said. That surprised me because most times the YLT is very good at this.

 

bloodstone

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2013, 09:39:07 AM »
Wikipedia notes:

According to the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition, Jepthah's daughter was not sacrificed, but was forbidden to marry and remained a spinster her entire life, fulfilling the vow that she would be devoted to the Lord.

Since when is Wikipedia or rabbinic Jewish tradition an authority on Christian doctrine? Premillennialists just keep making the same mistake. You have to decide what is your authority. Because this is why you follow these erroneous doctrines. The scriptures are the authority, not Wikipedia, Televangelists or the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition.

Puritan Heart

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2017, 04:44:21 AM »
Greetings All,

I did try to read the following link,

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/did_jephthah_sacrifice_his_daughter.shtml

I received the following notification,

The page requested has most likely been
"MOVED" due to site redesign!

Can someone please offer me the link again ...??

Thanking you in advance,

Alexandra
Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Reformer

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2017, 01:04:55 PM »

Puritan Heart

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2017, 01:13:02 PM »

Alexandra

Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/searchit/searchit.cgi?sacrifice%20his%20daughter

Excellent !!  Thank you so much Reformer.

Alexandra
Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Bunyan

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2017, 04:55:02 PM »
So we can kill our kids and still be good Christians? Sounds like the terrorist idea of God to me, not Christian.

Straw Man argument. No one said we should kill our children. They were simply giving you the testimony of the word of God, which they (and I) believe is true. Even when it upsets your sensibilities. Why do you find it hard to believe that Jephthah sacrificed his daughter? Wasn't Abraham one of the most righteous and God blessed men of old, and he was going to sacrifice his son? Do you believe he was going to do that? The point is not that he didn't, the point is that he was going to do it because He loved God, and only God stopped him. He was clearly a child of God, and so your opinion that no child of God would do such a thing  is obviously wrong. Christians of old took God's word and oaths to him a lot more seriously than many Christians of today who think only life in this world matters.
"The law says, 'do this,' and it is never done. Grace
says, 'believe in this,' and everything is already done
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Reformer

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2017, 11:40:43 AM »
So we can kill our kids and still be good Christians? Sounds like the terrorist idea of God to me, not Christian.

Straw Man argument. No one said we should kill our children. They were simply giving you the testimony of the word of God, which they (and I) believe is true. Even when it upsets your sensibilities. Why do you find it hard to believe that Jephthah sacrificed his daughter? Wasn't Abraham one of the most righteous and God blessed men of old, and he was going to sacrifice his son? Do you believe he was going to do that?

 :Goodpoint:

 Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

The idea that  Jephthah would not have sacrificed his daughter because he was a man of God is weighed in the balances and found wanting. By this biblical record, that idea is indefensible. Obviously an action such as this has could be done by a believer who loved God more than his own daughter or son.
 
In fact every single excuse given by those attempting to discredit the idea that this was done, has serious holes in it.

Anne

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2017, 07:05:56 PM »
Jephthah and the Grace of God

By S.B.

        The appearance of Jephthah in Hebrews 11 presents an interesting conundrum for the Bible student. Why did the author of Hebrews (whom I accept as Paul) highlight a man as a heroic example of faith to be emulated when he seems to have offered his daughter as a human sacrifice? In short, what did the author see in Jephthah’s story that merited his inclusion in the all-star list of faith heroes found in Hebrews 11?
        For those less familiar with Jephthah, his story is found in Judges 10–11. In short, Israel had been unfaithful yet again and, thus, had fallen under the abusive dominion of the Philistines and Ammonites for 18 arduous years (10:6-9). During an Ammonite attack, the people of Israel decide to repent to regain God’s blessing. God seems to question how genuine the repentance is, but the people make significant reforms anyway. Battle lines are formed, and war appears about to erupt (vss. 10-18). It is in this setting that Jephthah appears in the story.
        Judges 11 describes Jephthah as a prostitute’s illegitimate son and mighty warrior. Furthermore, Jephthah was disowned from any portion of the family inheritance by the “legitimate” sons of their common father. Jephthah fled from his brothers and became a gang leader, making his living by raiding, hence developing the warrior skills (11:1-3). Like most gangs, however, it seems likely his raids were against fellow Israelites and not against foreign enemies, perhaps in revenge for his disenfranchisement from legitimate society. Jephthah clearly charges the elders of Gilead with driving him out (vs. 7). Perhaps these elders were his brothers, who earlier were credited with forcing him to flee (vss. 2, 3), but it seems likely that a good portion of the elders were not so closely related. Hence, Jephthah was disenfranchised from the entire tribal unit, not just from his blood family.
        A prostitute’s son leading a gang in criminal behavior would not seem to be a likely candidate for God to use in His service. Certainly, some better candidates must have been available! Furthermore, Jephthah appears to vow to offer a human sacrifice and to follow through with it.
        In light of these facts, one might be tempted to wonder if the author of Hebrews was in his right mind to list Jephthah as a hero of faith.
        I shall not here survey the divided scholarship on the topic, for I believe most scholars have missed the point of Hebrews 11. I propose, rather, that this chapter uses the story of Jephthah in a similar manner to Paul’s use of Abraham’s faith in God’s promise of a son/descendants in Romans 4. (This similarity of usage would not be surprising to anyone who accepts Paul as the author of Hebrews.) In Romans 4, Paul takes a single aspect of Abraham’s life—his belief in God’s promise of an heir and descendants (Gen. 15:6)—and uses it as an analogy to how we believe on Christ for justification. Paul waxes quite idyllic when he argues that Abraham never wavered in faith because of his old age and that he was fully convinced God would do what He promised (Rom. 4:18-21).
        The alert reader may wonder how Paul can use such lofty language about Abraham’s never doubting the divine promise when also considering Abraham’s union with Hagar. I suggest that for Paul, the central concern was that Abraham never wavered over if God would give him the son and descendants. It appears to have been inconsequential to Paul’s point that Abraham faltered over how the promise would be fulfilled. Paul thus builds his doctrine of righteousness by faith on Abraham’s unwavering faith relative to the “if” dimension of the promise, using this one element of Abraham’s life and experience as an archetypal example as the basis for the doctrine of righteousness by faith. In like manner, the author of Hebrews seems to have in mind one portion of Jephthah’s life that best exemplifies the life of faith he is trying to illustrate. I propose that the passage about Jephthah’s battle preparations, as well as the ensuing battle, is what the author of Hebrews had in mind when he cited Jephthah in chapter 11.
        In this story, Jephthah first sent messengers to the Ammonite king, inquiring why they were attacking the Israelites (Judges 11:12). The Ammonite king answered to the effect that Israel stole land from Ammon during their exodus from Egypt and asks Jephthah to restore that land peaceably (vs.13). Jephthah gives a lengthy response, rehearsing that exodus history and an unprovoked attack by the Amorites. This sets up Jephthah’s core rebuttal to the Ammonite king, namely that Yahweh had dispossessed the Amorites of the land now being disputed by Ammon (vss. 14-23) and gave it to Israel. Israel thus has this land by divine grant and thus has a legal right to possess it.
        Jephthah closes his message by asking if Ammon really intends to take what was assigned to Israel by Yahweh. In a seeming chide, he wonders if the king of Ammon should only possess land that his god, Chemesh, gives him, while asserting that Israel will possess what Yahweh gave to them (vs. 24). He finally asserts that Israel had possessed the land under dispute for 300 years (vs. 26) and wonders why the complaint was not made sooner.
        Jephthah thus framed the issue as a conflict between Yahweh and Chemesh, citing examples from Israel’s history in which Yahweh defeated the other gods and their associated nations (vss. 25-28). More critically to the theology of Hebrews, based on a 300-year-old grant from Yahweh, Jephthah went into battle expecting victory, even though the Ammonites had dominated Israel for 18 years. Jephthah attempted the impossible because he believed Yahweh would enforce the grant, and God gave the victory. As in Romans 4, this single act of faith seems to be what underlies the citation of Jephthah in Hebrews 11.
        In Hebrews 11, the author is concluding an appeal to first-century believing Jews, trying to convince them to persevere in their faith and not give up on Jesus. As part of this appeal, the author applies Habakkuk 2:3 to the Second Coming in order to set up the argument that Jesus is coming and has not tarried, implying that these harried Jewish believers can hang on till He gets here. The author continues by using Habakkuk 2:4 to outline two responses to this unseen promise: “‘The just shall live by faith”; or “‘shrink[ing] back’” (Heb. 10:38, NIV). Here, as in Habakkuk, “the just shall live by faith” is not primarily about how we are justified but, rather, focuses on choosing to live a lifestyle in which behavior is governed by faith in God’s promises, even if the promises are unseen. The Hebrews could not see Jesus coming in glory but needed to persevere anyway as if they could see Him coming.
        Hebrews 11 is a catalog of examples of persons acting on an unseen promise that God eventually fulfills. Noah had never seen a flood (vs. 7) but built an ark anyway because God made a promise. And so it is with each character. Thus, Jephthah’s going into battle against Ammon, with 18 years of visible oppression at their hands, yet trusting an ancient, unseen promise that God fulfills, fits the theological purpose of the chapter. Events afterward are not important to the theological development of the archetypal point, just as with Paul’s use of Abraham, who believed God yet later lied to Abimelech. In contrast to Abraham, however, Jephthah seems to have been a fairly unsavory character.
        Jephthah’s moral anomalies fit well, however, into the larger trajectory of the Book of Judges. The book depicts a strong moral decline after Gideon’s central confession that God, not Gideon, is to rule over Israel as king (Judges 8:22, 23). Starting with Gideon’s ephod becoming an idolatrous snare, almost every judge thereafter has something wrong revealed about him.
        Abimelech tries to be a king and gets killed. Several judges live like kings with harems, hence the large number of sons (two with 30, one with 40). And then there is Samson.
        Jephthah’s rash vow and fulfillment is simply another evidence of the moral decline that occurs when God is not functionally king in Israel. Yet in that darkness, not unlike the story of Esther, Jephthah the outlaw invoked the promise of God, put it on the point of his spear, and went into battle trusting God to keep His promise. And God did.
        Jephthah, then, teaches us about not only how faith works but also about God’s grace. When this ancient outlaw turned to God in faith, God did not hesitate to respond favorably. His unsavory past was not held against him. Though cast off by his half-brothers, Jephthah was graciously received by God. Whenever sinners trust God’s word more than their perceptions and feelings, grace erupts and they become empowered in the ways of God. Jephthah thus exemplifies another truth expressed by the author of Hebrews: “He is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him” (Judges 7:25, ESV).

Rose

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2017, 12:41:24 PM »
There are good arguments on both sides. I favor the she became a perpetual virgin interpretation. Since God forbade human sacrifices.

Rose,

With all due respect, your or for that matter, any other persons favoured opinion is of no consequence when it comes to interpretation of the Divine Word of God !

(this is the second time I'm posting this, so I may leave somethings out)

I know, but the opinions aren't based on nothing. They are based on God forbidding Israel to do human sacrifices.

  We read that The Spirit of the Lord Came upon Jephthah (Judges 11:29–300 and based on that I do not believe that the spirit of the Lord told him to do something that was forbidden and then carry it out.


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I am of the understanding that Jephthah made the vow, fully convinced that the first animal to appear from the house would be the beast he would offer to God in fulfilment of his vow.  The story tells of his devastation at seeing his daughter ...


I'm not saying that wasn't the case, but offering her up to God as a chaste virgin would fulfill the vow of a sacrifice.


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Most importantly to note;  Hebrews 11 mentions Jephthah amongst the Great Faith Heroes of the ages ... surely, one must ask *Why ??*


I don't know. But that doesn't prove it's because he sacrificed his daughter. Proof would require scripture that says this is why.

"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

Terrell Meyer

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2017, 06:05:16 PM »

I'm not saying that wasn't the case, but offering her up to God as a chaste virgin would fulfill the vow of a sacrifice.

According to whom? Because according to God's word, it is clear that the vow Jephthah made was of a far more deadly sacrifice, and that he was devastated by seeing his daughter come out first. Not the kind of reaction one would have in those days if they were merely going to have their daughter remain a virgin.

Perhaps you are predisposed to a denial of what is the actual vow that he made and God's word that he actually kept THAT vow. Not a vow that liberal Christians of today imagine that he may have made if we clinch our eyes real tight, the actual vow that devastated him so badly that he tore his clothes in anguish.

Trevor

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2017, 06:46:56 PM »
Perhaps you are predisposed to a denial of what is the actual vow that he made and God's word that he actually kept THAT vow. Not a vow that liberal Christians of today imagine that he may have made if we clinch our eyes real tight, the actual vow that devastated him so badly that he tore his clothes in anguish.

 :iagree: Or a vow that would make all the maidens of Israel to come up every year to celebrate the daughter of Jephthah for four days. Every Year. To think it was because she was still agreeing to be a virgin is quite ridiculous. As Terrell Meyer said, you are simply predisposed to believe that.

It was because of her great faith to willingly be sacrificed because of the vow of her father. As Tony said, that type of faith of Jephthah and his daughter is in short supply today. They had faith that even in death they would go to be with the Lord, and that was better than breaking a solemn vow to almighty God, that God had written should never be done.
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Kira

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2017, 12:08:58 AM »
 :Goodpoint: made by Trevor and Terrell.

Pledging virginity doesn't really fulfill the vow that was made. Not without assaulting the text by imposing or forcing a meaning into it that is not included or written. You are absolutely correct when you say THAT vow, because the one written is the vow the word says was kept. And I for one believe that, no matter how horrible I might think the act was I cannot read into scripture what is not there. Thank you for telling it like it is.
K I R A 

Rose

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2017, 03:28:07 AM »
Your opinion. There are certain clues in the bible that imply his daughter may have suffered a very different fate other than becoming a burnt offering. Many scholars such as Prof. Jonathan Magonet suggest that the Hebrew word lament might actually mean they joined her in mourning her virginity every year because she may have been still alive. It is supposed she was obliged to remain unmarried, and so apart from her family.
"I am the rose of Sharon, and the lily of the valleys." - S.O.S. 2:1

Clifford Grodin

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2017, 01:26:46 AM »
Imply? Does that mean there is nothing in the bible that actually says she wasn't sacrificed according to the vow?

Tony Warren

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Re: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter?
« Reply #74 on: Today at 05:04:09 AM »
>>>
Your opinion.
<<<

I don't know how you feel about it, but I view an opinion as something that is debatable. Debatable is whether the name Melchisedec means "king of righteousness" or "my King is righteousness." Opinion (what is debatable) is not things that God clearly says. Like when we read God cannot lie. That's not an opinion, that's a Biblical fact. Contrary to what you imply, it's not an opinion that God's law strictly forbade the children of Israel from making a vow and not keeping it, much less a making a solemn vow to God and His keeping the requirements of it and then you reneging on it. Likewise, it's not an opinion that the vow that he made was that whatever came out first would be sacrificed as a burnt offering, using the same words that are used throughout Scripture for that particular act. It's not an opinion that the daughter was the one who came out first and her father was horribly distraught because of that vow he made. It's not an opinion that this daughter was a woman of integrity and faith and declared that the vow that her father made had to be kept. And it's not an opinion that the vow that Jephthah kept was the vow that Jephthah made, which by all normal idiom of that language and comparison of scripture was that of a burnt offering, a sacrifice unto God. You may of course retort that it's not an opinion that human sacrifice was forbidden, which is also true. But that does not in any way prove or preclude the biblical fact that Jephthah kept his vow. Obviously to him it was a question of faith in either breaking a solemn vow to God after God had fulfilled the conditions under which it was made, and breaking a moral law that God instituted for His people. Clearly to Jephthah and his daughter it was a matter faith in God vs humanistic reasoning. Jephthah clearly thought keeping his vow to God was of greater import. That's why He is listed as one of the greats in the heroes of faith. That is the type of faith that today many Christians lack, and this prevents them from accepting clear declarations.

Job 19:25-26
  • "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
  • And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:"

It was the faithfulness of Christ that (like Job) had Jephthah and his daughter believe and know that she was going to God, and not to nothingness as the faithless presume. The same faith that had David believe his son who died would be seen again. Why do you think Jephthah is listed in Hebrews as one of the greatest soldiers of faith? Was it because he made his daughter stay a virgin? Come on. Was it because he won a battle in war? No, that's not GREAT faithfulness, but willing to sacrifice your only child because of a solem vow to God that you cannot bring yourself to break even in this circumstance is GREAT faith! The same great faith that Abraham had when he was likewise willing to sacrifice his son as a burnt offering. Faith which few Christians today recognize.


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>>>
There are certain clues in the bible that imply his daughter may have suffered a very different fate...
<<<

Does the word of God say that or is this more subjection and speculation by those who can't bring themselves to believe the actual narrative (Jephthah sacrificed his daughter as a burnt offering) and so search for alternative ideas that they perceive won't make God unrighteous? Are these certain clues just wishful thinking? Surely if Jephthah's daughter had suffered a very different fate than the actual vow recorded in Scriptures, there must be some text that says there was a change of mind, or that he voided or amended the vow. But in reality, there are no "certain clues" in the Bible that he did anything other than sacrifice her as a burnt offering. The "certain clues" are all man-made justifications to believe there is such a narrative. ...though not inspired written of God. This is not Biblical clues, in truth it is speculation, theory, conjecture, supposition and assumptions. All things not germane or appropriate for sound Biblical expositions. Christians tell me, "I just can't believe that God would allow that." In other words, they know that's what the word says, but they just cannot believe it because of their own sensibilities of what God should and shouldn't allow. Some even declaring it's been written wrong, or that man corrupted the manuscripts and it was simply that her motherhood should be sacrificed.  I see this as anything "not" to accept what is written.

1st Thessalonians 2:13
  • "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."

Not as an opinion of man, but in truth God's unambiguous word concerning this event.


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>>>
...other than becoming a burnt offering.
<<<

Let's talk straight here, Jephthah vowed very clearly that he would offer up to God whatever came out first for a burnt offering. And let's be honest, the word that is translated burnt offering is [olah], meaning ascending and by extension used for describing smoke. Thus a cooked or burnt offering. Look through the Scriptures and you will find that it always means the sacrifice of a burnt offering. Why would any Bible believing Christian be of the "opinion" that in this instance only the word doesn't mean that? But more importantly, this word never means sacrificed as a perpetual virgin. It doesn't even make sense. Scripture interprets Scripture, so unless you can come up with a Scripture where that word means the offering of a girl in perpetual virginity, there really is no Biblical basis for that theory. No matter how well oiled by so-called scholars the supposition may be.

Genesis 22:2
  • "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."

Same word regarding Abraham. Are we to suppose because we deplore human sacrifice that this really meant that Isaac was to be sacrificed by Abraham to become a perpetual virgin? Do we interpret by opinion or by comparing Scripture with Scripture? Because if you have no cause to say it means that here, you have no cause to say that of the same scenario when we read it in Judges.


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>>>
Many scholars such as Prof. Jonathan Magonet suggest that the Hebrew word lament might actually mean they joined her in mourning her virginity every year because she may have been still alive.
<<<

Many scholars say a lot of things, from Jesus was not the Christ, or Paul's words were just his opinion, to Mary was not a virgin, but what does those conclusions of scholars mean? In the end, nothing! Scripture interprets Scripture. If the text meant that the women of Israel join her in mourning her virginity every year, then why would she ask of her father to be able to mourn for her virginity two months before He carried out his vow? Like Alice in wonderland, it keeps getting curious-er and curious-er.

Judges 11:37
  • "And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows."

What chapter and verse do we read that either she was still alive after the vow was kept, or that the daughters of Israel joined her yearly in this [tanah], which by extension means to "pay tribute" through the idea of hire. They went up to pay tribute by lamenting or commemorating her just as the Scriptures illustrate. Why do they pay tribute to her? Because she was a woman of tremendous faith in Israel to agree to such a thing as being sacrificed to God. Lest we forget, it was actually the daughter who agreed and all but insisted that her father had to fulfill the vow that he made to God (Judges 11:36). An act of faith worthy of the custom ([choq,] ordinance or precept) for Israel's daughters go up to pay tribute in lamenting her 4 days of every year. Virginity is not! This was as a memorial service for her great leap of faith to not only agree the vow had to be kept, but ask only to be allowed to mourn the fact that she would die having never married. Not mourn every year with friends for four days, but Scripture says to do it two months before the vow had to be kept.

Really, why would the daughters go up to mourn or join her in morning her virginity when that is exactly what she asked her father an extra two months to do? That makes no sense. Why would she need two months if she was going to mourn her virginity with the daughters of Israel 4 days every year? There's just so many holes in all these theories by Christians who attempt to paint God into a corner of unrighteousness if He allowed this sacrfice to take place.


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>>>
It is supposed she was obliged to remain unmarried, and so apart from her family.
<<<

Your right on this one, but only as you say Is is Supposed, which means "generally assumed or believed to be the case, and as you say she was apart from her family. Yesm, because she died. Absence from the body is to be present with the Lord. She was apart from her earthly family, but joined with her heavenly one. Assumption is not Scripture and supposition is no way to learn what God is teaching in this event. We cannot interpret Scripture by supposing anything, but by comparing Scripture with Scripture, bringing the word into harmony with itself, because assumption is the mother of errors. This is the problem in eschatology as well. Too much assumption rather than actual study of the Scriptures allowing God to interpret His own word.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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