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Author Topic: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God  (Read 1664 times)

Erik Diamond

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Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« on: October 06, 2017, 06:40:50 PM »

Job 1:6-8
[6]  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
[7]  And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
[8]  And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

There is popular belief that Satan used to live in heaven. After his fall, Satan still had access into heaven among the "angels" and present himself before the Lord.  I disagree with this belief.

This is not talking about literal heaven but rather a kingdom of heaven which is the congregation of Israel. The sons of God are people of the congregation where Brother Job was one of them.  Satan had access into the congregation of Israel, among sons of God, as the accuser of our brethren which accused them before the Lord day and night, Revelation 12:10.

Am I right?

Now can anyone explain what did Satan mean when he said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."  I asked because some people suggested that not only Satan have access in the earth but up and down between heaven and earth.

Thank you.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Matrix

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 07:42:58 AM »
Erik,
  Satan said what? I can't read that, what did you do to the text? It's just a line there.

Melanie

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 08:01:57 AM »
 :Say_what: I can't read it either Erik.

Maurice

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 09:33:36 AM »
If you close one eye, and squint with the other, with your finger pointing to it, it looks like Mr. T  :smileyBounce:  :smileyBounce:

Puritan Heart

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 10:00:22 AM »
Erik,
  Satan said what? I can't read that, what did you do to the text? It's just a line there.

It says; quote*From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." I asked because some people suggested that not only Satan have access in earth but up and down with heaven.

Thank you.* end quote

 :)
Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Melanie

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2017, 10:46:35 AM »
Thanks, but I have to ask. How did you read that?

Puritan Heart

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 11:36:45 AM »
Thanks, but I have to ask. How did you read that?

Hi Melanie,

X Ray eyes ...  ;)

No, quite simply, *copy, paste, enlarge* and then re posted. :)

Alexandra
Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Erik Diamond

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 02:00:59 PM »
Sorry, people. I did not check the original post after I posted it before went out to pick up my children from school. I read your response this morning.  I do not know why the forum software inserted the smaller font size tag for some of my sentences.  I went ahead and removed these tags and edit a bit.  It should be readable now.

Go ahead and re-read the original post again.

And by the way, thank you Puritan Heart, for your x-ray reading.   :peace:

Thanks,
Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 06:42:42 AM »
>>>
There is popular belief that Satan used to live in heaven. After his fall, Satan still had access into heaven among the "angels" and present himself before the Lord.  I disagree with this belief.
<<<

As do I.  However, this is a very widely held misconception by much of the church, mainly based on a misunderstanding of Old Testament Scriptures (like this one) and of Revelation chapter 12 referring to cast out angels. I do not believe that Satan was in Holy heaven with God, was commuting from heaven to earth, nor that he ever had come into God's third heaven. Nothing that offends is in the heaven where God dwells, the heaven in view here is the Kingdom of heaven on earth, where God's people dwell. There is no sin in heaven, no hypocrisy, no Liar, no evil in heaven, only praise, glory and worship.

The context of Scriptures is also very important, and the context of this passage is the gathering together of God's people for feasts, communion and offerings unto the Lord for sin.

Job 1:4-5
  • "And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
  • And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually."

The context is God's people on earth, their days of feasting and Job's faithful sacrifice and offering for sin. And on one of these days, Satan was allowed to come in among them so that Job could be tried, a portrait for all of us.

Job 1:6
  • "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them."

The sons of God in Scripture refer to believers (Genesis 6:1; John 1:12; Romans 8:14; 1 John 3:1) who are spiritual children/sons of the Father. not Angels as is often assumed. And most certainly not "fallen Angels."

Deuteronomy 14:1
"Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut
 yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead
."

The word translated children is the exact same word translated sons, illustrating God's people are the spiritual sons of God.

(e.g.:  http://mountain-retreat.org/faq/nephils.html )
 
Thus by allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture we see these sons of God refers to believers, God's spiritual children on earth, and it is they who come to present themselves before the Lord. Actually the language of "present themselves before the LORD" is also confirming the illustration of their coming for the purpose of sacrifice, offering and forgiveness of sin of the Lord's congregation. It "is" the representation of the Lord's Heaven on earth. It is not an illustration of supernatural Angels or of Satan as a Angel presenting themselves in holy heaven in the presence of God. God says Satan was a Liar from the beginning, and no liar can enter God's Holy Heaven. Moses couldn't even stand before the glory of Holy God on the mountaintop, much less the epitome of evil and the father of lies come to stand where God dwells in all His glory. Allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture we see that the language of "presenting oneself"before God, or [yatsab],  is the language of the congregation making obeisance, supplication, oblation and contrition.  It doesn't refer to literally standing in Heaven physically facing God. e.g.:

Leviticus 14:11
"And the priest that maketh him clean shall present the man
 that is to be made clean, and those things, before the LORD,
at the
 door of the tabernacle of the congregation
:"

1st Samuel 10:19
"And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you
 out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto
 him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves
 before the LORD
by your tribes, and by your thousands
."

Deuteronomy 31:14
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou
 must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle
 of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua
 went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation
."

Jeremiah 36:7
"It may be they will present their supplication before the LORD, and
 will return every one from his evil way: for great is the anger and the fury
 that the LORD hath pronounced against this people
."

That is how the congregation in the Old Testament presented themselves before the Lord, on earth, and it is not in a literal/physical heaven before God. In God's economy, heaven is often signifying the Lord's congregation "because" it is the Kingdom of heaven on earth. For Example, as we read of Christ the Kingdom of heaven suffered violence until John. It wasn't referring to literal heave. Or when Michael and His angels fought in heaven, again, not literally angels fighting in God's holy heaven. Likewise, when it says Satan came among them, he is among the congregation. This often happens as you can just look at some of the people in God's congregation and the things that they are teaching? It's not hard to understand that Satan comes in as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Didn't the sons of God build a golden calf to worship after being delivered from Egypt? Was that not Satan among them? Satan works within man (Luke 22:3), and he comes among God's people and does his bidding in the body of man (John 13:27). This is mysterious or secretive only in the fact that so many professing believers cannot comprehend this most basic and fundamental truth. He comes preaching love, he comes preaching eccumemism, he comes preaching politics, he comes genealogy, He comes preaching lawlessness under the guyise of grace and peace. The list is endless. Satan is revealed in the man of sin, or more to our vernacular, "the sinful man!" Ibn the spirit of his father, the Devil, he always comes in among the sons of God to try and bring them down, but it is really a trial of faith. Like Job, we should fear none of these things that we may suffer, be it tribulation, persecution or hate. If we are faithful unto death, we shall receive a crown of life better than anything this sinful world has to offer.


Quote
>>>
Satan had access into the congregation of Israel, among sons of God, as the accuser of our brethren which accused them before the Lord day and night, Revelation 12:10.

Am I right?
<<<

Yes, I believe so. And God, being sovereign and and using all, including Satan, for His own good purposes in trial, allows Satan to take all that Job had to illustrate to us doctrine that is profitable for reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. Just as the church is tried by God's loosing of Satan, that the sons of God might be brought through the fire, and the wicked might be judged of the fire that comes down from heaven. The conversation between God and Satan are for our learning, not a demonstration that the Spirit of Lies can tempt God to persecute Job.

Job 1:7
  • "And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

When Satan says he's come from going to and fro in the earth and from walking up and down in it, it simply means he travels far and wide, much as a sojourner that had been traveling to and fro (i]back and forth[/i]0 in the land/earth. And in his travels he came in among Job's group. Up and down just means one direction and the opposite direction, just as we would say today that someone walked North and South (up and down) in the land. It's only illustrating that we journeyed far and wide.

Consider that this is precisely why God in His divine synergy and providence effectively asks Him if in his travels, had he come across anyone as righteous as His servant Job.

Job 1:8
  • "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

In other words, in your travels, have you ever seen anyone so upright as My servant Job who fears God, and so shuns evil? God knows Satan is  the adversary, is  hateful, corrupt, disgusting, and a liar from the beginning who could not possibly reside in heaven. Obviously this desperately wicked spirit is not traveling or commuting back and forth from heaven to earth "as a son of God" and presenting himself as a son before God. The whole idea is untenable for so many reasons, not the least of which is that Heaven is for the heavenly where nothing that offends or that makes a lie can dwell. When the sons of God (the Lord's children of that day), presented themselves before the Lord, the adversary came in among them by coming in man. Just the same as Judas, the son of perdition likewise came in among the Lord's congregation to betray Christ by having Satan enter into him, that he might do his bidding.

Luke 22:3
"Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve."

The sons of God and Satan coming in among them when they went to present themselves, was no new and spectacular event of a ultimate evil Spirit coming into a "perfect heaven" where no evil can exist, to physically commune with God. Rather it is the age old illustration that the thing that hath been, that which shall be--and that this same that is done, is that which shall be done, so that there is no new thing under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9) God used this episode to paint us a portrait of the many sides, shades and meanings about the sons of Gosd, their faithfulness, unfaithfulness and ultimate reliance upon God alone for everything.

Satan has always been coming in among God's sons, as it is happening in our day  as professing Christians begin walking according to the course of this world and the prince of the power of the air. The same spirit that worked in the children of disobedience of God's Old Testament congregation is working among God's people today, who are to a certain degree unaware of the strong delusion that they are under.
 

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


Puritan Heart

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 08:13:30 AM »

Job 1:4-5
  • "And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
  • And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually."


Hello Tony,

As always, we praise God for your leadership in blessing us with your faithful, Holy Spirit lead comprehension and revelation.

In reference to the above quote and scripture, I have always found quite astounding how that Job sacrificed on behalf of his family... no doubt as an act of divinely inspired love and obedience to God first, and love for them ... and this, even before the Mosaic law was received and implemented.  Again, the Old Testament pointing to the forthcoming birth and crucifixion of Jesus, The Christ.

Indeed, all else in this world can be considered destraction and at least, superficial, when considering and then to fully comprehend, that we were created for His Glory and Purposes Alone.

Revelation 4:11 - Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

What a Gracious and Merciful Holy God we have the privilege to call, Father !!


Alexandra

 


Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Reformer

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 09:17:22 AM »
 :amen: Alexandra

  I am so thankful that while the word is being so closed off to so many by the apostasy of the church, it is being opened up so much to us right in the midst of it. As you say, what a Gracious and Merciful Holy God we have the privilege to call, Father.

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 10:08:07 AM »
Am I the only one here with the courage to stand up against this clear error denying Satan coming into heaven to talk to God? The fallen angels is a well established doctrine of the church. Even the "Reformed" Geneva Bible commentary on this matter says this:

"Meaning the angels, who are called the sons of God because they are willing to execute his will."

So your own people agree with us. Before they were fallen, heavenly angels were called “sons of God”. We believe that they are called “sons of God” because they possess personality like God. This term is also used in Genesis 6:2 which tells us the the angels, spoken of as “sons of God”, took wives from among the “daughters of men.” In keeping with the literal use of “sons of God” in Job, you have to believe the term refers to fallen angels who mated with the daughters of men to produce the wicked and powerful progeny that led to the extreme evil of Noah’s day. You can also find further support for what I am saying in 2 Peter 2:4-6, and also it is proved by Jude 6-7.

Tony's teaching that “the sons of God” mean believers is like a false belief that went around that the sons of God refer to the sons of the godly line of Seth and the “daughters of men” to refer to the ungodly line of the Cainites. None of this is true. It's spiritualizing gone wild!

Puritan Heart

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 10:33:09 AM »
:amen: Alexandra

  I am so thankful that while the word is being so closed off to so many by the apostasy of the church, it is being opened up so much to us right in the midst of it. As you say, what a Gracious and Merciful Holy God we have the privilege to call, Father.

Hi there Reformer,

It is in the reading of some comments on these pages that we should be so deeply humbled ... knowing with certainty, that God in His Awesome, incomprehensible and Gracious mercy, has opened the spiritual eyes of our understanding.  Indeed, we are SO Blessed !!  :)

Alexandra
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Puritan Heart

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 10:59:21 AM »
Am I the only one here with the courage to stand up against this clear error denying Satan coming into heaven to talk to God? The fallen angels is a well established doctrine of the church. Even the "Reformed" Geneva Bible commentary on this matter says this:

"Meaning the angels, who are called the sons of God because they are willing to execute his will."

So your own people agree with us. Before they were fallen, heavenly angels were called “sons of God”. We believe that they are called “sons of God” because they possess personality like God. This term is also used in Genesis 6:2 which tells us the the angels, spoken of as “sons of God”, took wives from among the “daughters of men.” In keeping with the literal use of “sons of God” in Job, you have to believe the term refers to fallen angels who mated with the daughters of men to produce the wicked and powerful progeny that led to the extreme evil of Noah’s day. You can also find further support for what I am saying in 2 Peter 2:4-6, and also it is proved by Jude 6-7.

Tony's teaching that “the sons of God” mean believers is like a false belief that went around that the sons of God refer to the sons of the godly line of Seth and the “daughters of men” to refer to the ungodly line of the Cainites. None of this is true. It's spiritualizing gone wild!

Hello Drew,

If I were reading any other site, then what you write, assuming you had confidence in the words with which you express yourself, would be a consideration, certainly in metaphysical sciences, reptilian / human inbreeding, the likes of which David Icke and his ilk so brazenly teach.  However, this is by far The Most Biblically based Bible forum I have to date had the privilege to learn from, participate in and fellowship with.

In reference to your quote; Even the "Reformed" Geneva Bible commentary on this matter says this:  "Meaning the angels, who are called the sons of God because they are willing to execute his will."  please remember Drew, the Geneva Bible is Not the King James Bible, and furthermore, nowhere does God say He preserves commentaries by man!  He, God Almighty, promised to keep and preserve HIS Word !!

Psalm 12 v 6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7  Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Also, you cannot add to or take away from what HIS Word says;

Deuteronomy 4 v 1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you.

2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

God is fastidious with regard to His Word.

Proverbs 30 v 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

HIS Word shall remain !!

Mark 13 v 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

And, God will curse those who dare to change the meaning of His Holy Written Word.

Revelation 22 v 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

In light of the Very grave warning in the previous scripture, I would implore you to consider any views you might wish to offer, PRAYERFULLY and BEFORE posting !!  Please consider that there are those of us who are searching for Truth, those who would not dare to so boldly call Truth a lie !!  Searching for truth is an intense process and does not come with the so called wisdom of man.  Only God can open the spiritual eyes of understanding, for it is He who knows the hearts and minds of man.

John 2 v 24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

There are numerous additional scriptures in both the Old and New Testament that confirm the above.

Alexandra

Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

George

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Re: Job 1:6 - Satan Among the Sons of God
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 09:02:53 AM »
Am I the only one here with the courage to stand up against this clear error denying Satan coming into heaven to talk to God? The fallen angels is a well established doctrine of the church. Even the "Reformed" Geneva Bible commentary on this matter says this:

"Meaning the angels, who are called the sons of God because they are willing to execute his will."

So your own people agree with us. Before they were fallen, heavenly angels were called “sons of God”.

Hello Drew,

If I were reading any other site, then what you write, assuming you had confidence in the words with which you express yourself, would be a consideration, certainly in metaphysical sciences, reptilian / human inbreeding, the likes of which David Icke and his ilk so brazenly teach.
Alexandra

So Judgmental Alexandra. But Drew is correct in his understanding of the sons of God as angels, which as he proved even the Reformed teachers agree. Satan was kicked out of heaven in the war with Michael, the archangel.

Revelation 12:7 & 8
"And there was war in the heaven: Michael and his angels went to war with the dragon. And the dragon fought, and his angels; and he prevailed not, nor was their place found any more in the heaven".

There you have where Satan was in heaven and kicked out. Start taking the Bible literally and you will see this. Drew is correct.

 


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