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Author Topic: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7  (Read 844 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2017, 07:58:11 PM »
I will say that your study is a blessed read.  I am sure many of us here agree.  Your study did not only helped me to understand the "floating axe miracle", but to discern some another miracles better, too. 

God bless you, Brother Tony.  :peace: 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Dan

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 02:06:48 AM »
I will say that your study is a blessed read.  I am sure many of us here agree.

As usual, you are wrong Erik. We don't agree because it's just another example of the spiritualizing that is the root of the amillennialist error. You can't just make every miracle a spiritual odyssey. Most of us prefer the traditional understanding, rather than the try and connect the dots method.

Quote
Your study did not only helped me to understand the "floating axe miracle", but to discern some another miracles better, too. 

All it helped us understand is how to avoid private interpretations through spiritualizing. Once you go down that allegory road, it's very difficult to get back to basics. Take my advice and stick with the literal and historical grammatical approach.

Oneil

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2017, 04:28:19 AM »

Interesting Tony, thanks for rushing it through.

Rick Reeves

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2017, 05:22:00 AM »

I've never heard that interpretation before. :typing:

Oneil

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 09:11:56 AM »
All it helped us understand is how to avoid private interpretations through spiritualizing. Once you go down that allegory road, it's very difficult to get back to basics. Take my advice and stick with the literal and historical grammatical approach.

Dan, you continually miss the point because you (and Dispensational or Political Christians like you) are forever trying to fit a political nation, or a physical destruction, or a historical temple, or a literal interpretation into God's spiritual truths. The same with the Dominion Theologists. You will always miss the true intent of miracles because you are so fixated on a literal floating axe head rather than receiving what God is showing us about himself in that miracle. You see, it's all about him, not about the supernatural, elisha or a axe head.


David Knoles

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 12:05:24 PM »

Tony,
 Why is this always the thing you cannot seem to understand with all your allegories. Sometimes miracles are just miracles that cannot be explained and are simply to show the power God gives to men. Thats the beauty of it. Miracles don't need to be convoluted with more than they say, just taken on face value by faith that this was done to show Elisha was God's prophet.

Puritan Heart

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 01:10:58 PM »
Hello Dan and David,

Since you both generously and continuously offer your belligerent and hollow comments, please may I request that you offer to those of us on this forum, eager to learn the Truths of the Living Word of our Holy Heavenly Father, the wisdom of your own theological exegesis on this question, and, if at all possible, with more than one scripture. 

Also, please do know this; that all you offer on these pages, are open before the eyes of Almighty God, to whom we all must give an account on that Final day, thus we would expect nothing less than earnest convictions on your part !!

Thanking you in advance for your sincere considerations,

Alexandra

Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Dan

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2017, 03:54:53 AM »
Hello Dan and David,

Since you both generously and continuously offer your belligerent and hollow comments, please may I request that you offer to those of us on this forum, eager to learn the Truths of the Living Word of our Holy Heavenly Father, the wisdom of your own theological exegesis on this question, and, if at all possible, with more than one scripture. 

Alexandra,
There's nothing belligerent or hollow about what we think about this miracle. We think literal is better, and we think miracles show that power. We think Israel is Israel. And we think miracles demonstrate someone is a people and prophet of God. We think miracles show God's power, that's all. It's not complicated.

 I think that David did offer his own theological exegesis on the question when he said that "Sometimes miracles are just miracles that cannot be explained and are simply to show the power God gives to men. Thats the beauty of it. Miracles don't need to be convoluted with more than they say, just taken on face value by faith that this was done to show Elisha was God's prophet." Like it or not, that's his explanation of the miracle.

Acts 6:8
"And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought wonders and great signs among the people." DT
Mark 9:39
"But Jesus said, Forbid him not; for there is no one who shall do a miracle in my name, and be able soon [after] to speak ill of me;" DT

Miracles are done to show God's great power. As far as answers, we're still waiting for you to answer a question. For your information, a request for additional scripture is not an answer. It's just a stalling tactic.


Nina

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2017, 05:09:54 AM »
As usual, you are wrong Erik. We don't agree because it's just another example of the spiritualizing that is the root of the amillennialist error. You can't just make every miracle a spiritual odyssey. Most of us prefer the traditional understanding, rather than the try and connect the dots method.


 :S_Confused:
Tony Warren,
   Sometimes I ask myself, why does he even bother answering these people? They will never get it, and they are just so annoying in their adamant and ungodly denials. Sigh :-\

I want to thank you for taking the time to place these FAQs, sermons and articles online for God's people. I truly enjoyed this study of the question about the axe and Elisha.
 :God:Bl-U:

PS, Thank you Erik for introducing it.

Trevor

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2017, 06:26:11 AM »
The Borrowed Axe
    by John Newton
   

“The prophets sons, in time of old,
Though to appearance poor;
Were rich without possessing gold,
And honoured, though obscure.

In peace their daily bread they eat,
By honest labor earned;
While daily at Elisha’s feet,
They grace and wisdom learned.

The prophet’s presence cheered their toil,
They watched the words he spoke;
Whether they turned the furrowed soil,
Or felled the spreading oak.

Once as they listened to his theme,
Their conference was stopped;
For one beneath the yielding stream,
A borrowed axe had dropped.

Alas! it was not mine, he said,
How shall I make it good?
Elisha heard, and when he prayed,
The iron swam like wood.

If God, in such a small affair,
A miracle performs;
It shows his condescending care
Of poor unworthy worms.

Though kings and nations in his view
Are but as motes and dust;
His eye and ear are fixed on you,
Who in his mercy trust.

Not one concern of ours is small,
If we belong to him;
To teach us this, the Lord of all,
Once made the iron swim.”
A Mind For Truth
Dr. C. Trevor Bavinck
New York, NY

Jon Thomas

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2017, 08:11:10 AM »
:S_Confused:
Tony Warren,
   Sometimes I ask myself, why does he even bother answering these people? They will never get it, and they are just so annoying in their adamant and ungodly denials. Sigh :-\

Because He's a Christian in the true sense of the word.

Lue 6:27
"But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,"


Quote
PS, Thank you Erik for introducing it.

 :ditto:

Puritan Heart

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2017, 08:39:31 AM »
For your information, a request for additional scripture is not an answer. It's just a stalling tactic.

Hello Dan,

With reference to your above mentioned comment, I can assure you there is no stalling tactic !  Since research and study is a part of my life I simply prefer to seriously consider what I post, before posting, especially if I am to post my personal findings. 

I furthermore wish to add that after reading the article presented by Tony, searching the scriptures, I, along with others, conclude that it answers the questions asked by Erik over and beyond what I had expected, and, as some of us know when studying the Word of God, Old Testament scripture points to Christ.  It is for the diligent student of the Word of God to seek or, as this forum allows, to ask for guidance.

Alexandra

Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Puritan Heart

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 09:02:54 AM »

I want to thank you for taking the time to place these FAQs, sermons and articles online for God's people. I truly enjoyed this study of the question about the axe and Elisha.
 :God:Bl-U:

PS, Thank you Erik for introducing it.

Hello Nina,

I came to faith through this very site only a few years ago and from then until this very moment, with the exception of one excellent visit with a christian friend, who unfortunately lives quite a distance away, have never had any real christian fellowship.  Trust me, this has not been for a lack of effort on my part.  Without exception, the few times I found myself in a gathering, church or fellowship, the teachings were ecumenical and horribly diluted.  Not one iota of sound biblical doctrine ! Speaking of *Holiness* was considered a joke and Old Testament teachings ...In general, these so called church meetings were nothing more than self glorifying social occasions utterly devoid of any True teachings.  I was devastated ... until I started my studies in Revelations, also through MR.  Only then did I begin to understand Christian life so much better.

Like you and I am confident I can say this on behalf of many others on this forum, I am eternally grateful to God for this man, Tony, for the time he spends in so generously responding to our questions, being a True Shepherd and Christlike spiritual father.  Many thanks must also go to his family and to those who help with the administration of this site.

A sister in Christ

Alexandra
Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Tony Warren

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2017, 07:43:25 AM »
>>>
 :S_Confused:
Tony Warren,
   Sometimes I ask myself, why does he even bother answering these people? They will never get it, and they are just so annoying in their adamant and ungodly denials. Sigh :-\
<<<

Christians are obliged not to answer contempt with contempt, or have disdain for those who show disdain. We all have feet of clay, but that's the ideal.

Luke 6:32
  • "For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them."

[agape] or charitable love is the design of our blessed Savior for us. We are to have a merciful, charitable, forgiving, lending nature when dealing with those less fortunate. I believe that the old adage applies, "...There but by the grace of God go I." That's my belief and philosophy.

Moreover, as I have said before, I don't answer in any vain belief that my posts are so brilliant that they will one day convince them of truth, but rather for the benefit of travelers here who will read these posts, having similar questions, and "by grace of God" might be more open to receive Scripture references and recognize the difference between personal opinion and the authority of the "unadulterated" word.

Which is also why I leave these posts up year after year, as I recognize the documented thousands of people who read them might be edified. It's not about convincing the people who I bother to answer their posts, but about stewardship and being a witness to the truth. God is the Spirit that convinces people of truth, certainly not I. But God works through witnesses. How can prospective Christians call on him whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? That's what God's word says, and I have faith that this is all true. It costs me what? ...nothing. It cost Christ everything. So don't praise me for witnessing, praise God for any that comes forth of it.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: The Floating Ax - 2nd Kings 6:1-7
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2017, 08:03:09 AM »
>>>
There's nothing belligerent or hollow about what we think about this miracle. We think literal is better
<<<

In these miracles, literal is a given. I didn't hear anyone deny these were literal miracles. The miracles "were" literal miracles--that were done to "signify" (be a indicator or sign of) something else.

John 11:23-25
  • "Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
  • Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
  • Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

i.e., the miracle of Christ raising Lazarus (name meaning "God is my help") from the dead "signified," or was a sign that Christ was God our help, and is the true resurrection that would bring us from spiritual death to life. Literal has nothing to do with what "the miracle" signified or pointed to.


Quote
>>>
we think miracles show that power.
<<<

Of course they do, and that's not in dispute. But not power for the sake of power.

John 3:2
  • "The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him."

The question is not one of if the miracles demonstrate the power of God (obviously they do), the question is, are they signs to "signify" (be a indicator or token) of some deeper spiritual truth. In other words, was restoring sight "just a miracle to show power" as you imply, or was it also to illustrate that it is by the power of Christ we would have our spiritual sight restored? That is the relevant question.  Was raising Lazarus "just a miracle to show power," or was it also to illustrate that Christ is the resurrection whereby we might be raised Spiritually from death to life. That is the only question here.


Quote
>>>
We think Israel is Israel.
<<<

So do we. But according to the authority of the word of God rather than tradition or men. Obviously, for anyone who reads Scripture with humility, honesty and an eye towards keeping it, the New Covenant with the church, is the New Covenant with Israel.

Hebrews 8:10-13
  • "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
  • And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
  • For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  • In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

This is New Covenant Israel established on better promises, where by the power of the Spirit of God, His laws can be kept by the Spirit who puts them into our minds, and where they are written in our hearts that He is truly our God, and we His people. The New Covenant/Testament church, the new representation of the Kingdom of heaven on earth. For Israel is only Israel in Christ Jesus. As it is written, they are not all Israel that are Israel.


Quote
>>>
 It's not complicated.
<<<

When bondage to sin is involved, it is very much complicated. The reason is because there is the great deceiver, our adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, who walk about seeking whom he may devour. The same reason Israel couldn't (and to a large degree can't now) recognize Christ as the Messiah, despite the fact that we might think it's not that complicated or difficult to see. It's not complicated to God's elect only because by the great and powerful miracle of Salvation, God has taken away the blindness and given them eyes to see. We can hear and receive God's glorious word only because of the miracle of Spiritual ears giving us the ability to hear the truth, and giving us spiritual eyes to see the light.

John 10:24-25
  • "Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
  • Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me."

Obviously, it's complicated to those who have been told and still do not understand.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


 


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