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Author Topic: The Salvation of the Gentiles  (Read 795 times)

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2017, 01:56:11 PM »

Quote from: Tony Warren
Hi, I'm off to do something else now, but I will check it out maybe tomorrow or Sunday. But my sense is that it's the same old genealogical pride in justifications/rationalizations.  But will try to have an open mind.

Hello Tony, while I was waiting for your thought on the link I posted earlier, I was still in a debate with "Dannyfortruth" from other forum who believed that he knows you and your doctrine. I tried to explain to him that God did have salvation plan for heathen Gentiles after the Jews (and the fall of old testament congregation.).  He still denies this saying that the Gentiles who are saved are the ones with Jewish roots from "lost tribes of Israel".  Here is his response to me this morning. (Note: sorry I could not copy and paste his post directly from another forum due without a massive format tag conflicts, so I screenshot the post instead.




I do not agree with him but I did read with KJV on verses he brought up:

Jas 1:1
[1]  James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

It looks like Dannyfortruth tried to link this verse to the "Israelite foreigners," the descendants of the dispersed lost tribes of Israel.  I believe the verse has to do with early church (mostly Jewish) fled from Old Testament Congregation bringing Gospel into the Heathen Gentiles, correct?  But I like to clarify who and why are the Twelve Tribes that was scattered aboard after the Cross?

1Pe 1:1-2
[1]  Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
[2]  Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I believe this must be referred new Christians (early church) fleeing to the Gentile nations from Israel. Not the descendants of the "dispersed" lost tribes of Israel.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Puritan Heart

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2017, 05:25:10 AM »
Hello Erik,

From the very first sentence of this individuals response, ie; that you are responding *in the light of Greco Roman Christianity* through the entirety of his retort, it is fraught with error.  The man is very obviously involved in some faux Messianic Jewish dogma and also, quite confused.  Sad!!

It is worthy of response, however, the format in which you presented it makes it impossible to quote for reply.  Please may I ask that you redo the post, if possible..?

Thanking you in advance,

Alexandra
Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

George

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2017, 09:16:22 AM »
He still denies this saying that the Gentiles who are saved are the ones with Jewish roots from "lost tribes of Israel".

Mark 6:11
"And whatsoever place shall not receive you nor hear you, departing thence, shake off the dust which is under your feet for a testimony to them".

Wcjciech Semkowski

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2017, 08:28:39 PM »
Chicago Bear,
Looks hypocritical when you specifically call out 5-6 of our names and in the same sentence accuse them of an" US versus them" mentality. Does that really help anything when you single out names?

Obviously you missed my point, which was that you guys are an angry peanut gallery with your eyes always on the world, its morality (not the church's), its taxes, race baiting, national pride, exclusionism, physical Jews and kingdoms (Fred, George, Dan), the mammon of unrighteousness, etc. Did you ever read of the apostle Paul worrying about such matters? Did you hear him justifying the Jewish leaders simply because He was a Pharisee, or they were of his former party? He left that to the people with their eyes on the world, and he placed his on a government ruled from heaven.

And of course, you still miss the point. It's not about us vs them in politics or race, it's about us vs them in the church and its enemies. Not because I don't want to pay health care for some poor soul, but because I don't want my church taking its eyes off itself and placing them on things that in the big picture don't matter. What I mean is, just as Tony said, we're never going to change the world, nor was that the job given us. We weren't called to be watchmen of the world, but to be a light of the world. We were set as watchmen of the Lord's house, and you guys (named) are so angry about the world and its politics and so busy with that agenda you don't even recognize truth when you hear it. I don't apologize for saying that, because it is the truth. When's the last time You, John, Bram or Philly Dawg posted anything that wasn't about politics, race, fake news, Trump or the liberal media? I rest my case.

It shows your mind is not on Christ but on the world and its current events. So again, it's not liberals against conservatives, Republicans against Democrats, it's that world that is against the church. We are soldiers in a army, but its not political. Why can't you and the rest of the angry peanut gallery see that without being offended?

 :'( I almost cried when I read this. Excellent post. It's so true about both sides with no leadership at all. 

"Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you."

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2017, 01:58:23 AM »
It is worthy of response, however, the format in which you presented it makes it impossible to quote for reply.  Please may I ask that you redo the post, if possible..?

Hi. That would be time-consuming to clean up tag mess when I copy and paste post from another forum.  I tried to use no format feature but did not work.  I guess you just type what he wrote and then write your response. 

Other than that, I agree that the person has Jewish pride that he can not really understand who the Gentiles/Nations are that the Lord talked about.   
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Puritan Heart

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2017, 04:15:10 AM »
It is worthy of response, however, the format in which you presented it makes it impossible to quote for reply.  Please may I ask that you redo the post, if possible..?

Hi. That would be time-consuming to clean up tag mess when I copy and paste post from another forum.  I tried to use no format feature but did not work.  I guess you just type what he wrote and then write your response. 

Other than that, I agree that the person has Jewish pride that he can not really understand who the Gentiles/Nations are that the Lord talked about.   

Hi Erik,

No problem... I do understand, and thank you for your reply. 

I realise you requested a reply from Tony, but if you do not mind, I have some thoughts I would like to present ...

Alexandra



Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Dryfus

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2017, 07:11:22 AM »
I realise you requested a reply from Tony, but if you do not mind, I have some thoughts I would like to present ...

Alexandra

Why do you have to ask permission, it's a open discussion forum I presume. I would like to hear your thoughts.
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ZeroCool

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2017, 09:21:20 AM »
Tony has addressed this word ethnos many times over the years. Bottom line is that it means a family, race or ethnic groups, and by extension different families, nations, races or ethnic groups. The Bible uses it extensively to speak of the non-jews or foreigners with relationship to Israel or the Jews.

This man takes a known doctrine, attempts to dissect it by showing something that every theologian knows, and then proclaims victory. Yes, the word can mean the Jews also because the Jews were a nation.  Thus the word is translated nation as well as Gentiles. This teacher goes on to show that "ethnos" is used in Scripture of both Jews and non-Jews. Then he claims by this the word means Jews. That's circular reasoning. The word means nation, which could be Jewish or Non Jewish, and this is decided by translators by the context. Here are two examples.


 Mark 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

This word nation could only mean a Gentile nation.

 Galatian 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

This word nation could only refer to the Jewish Nation. But this guy makes the leap that both instances must mean a Jewish nation, which is not supportable, as is most of what he says on that site. The truth is, the word nations is translated gentiles when the context shows that it refers to non-Jewish nations.

 Luke 21:23-24 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

So his beliefs are not supported by people educated in the languages, it's just his own personal views. genos can mean nation or gentiles. Him saying it can't doesn't prove anything.
 


Eugene Coburn

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2017, 01:53:06 PM »

 :'( I almost cried when I read this. Excellent post. It's so true about both sides with no leadership at all. 

This happens to me when there is a post that I know I don't necessarily want to hear, but I also know is true. It guilts me out, but I believe that I am a better Christian person for it. 

God Bless all on the Mountain Retreat.

Eugene Coburn

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2017, 01:59:33 PM »
So his beliefs are not supported by people educated in the languages, it's just his own personal views. genos can mean nation or gentiles. Him saying it can't doesn't prove anything.

I know. His whole argument and assertion has the Bible in effect saying not for the Jew only, but for the Jew as well. God doesn't say that, he says the Jew and the Greek. The whole argument is silly. I wouldn't argue with him.

Eugene Coburn

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2017, 02:03:40 PM »
Thus the word is translated nation as well as Gentiles. This teacher goes on to show that "ethnos" is used in Scripture of both Jews and non-Jews. Then he claims by this the word means Jews. That's circular reasoning. The word means nation, which could be Jewish or Non Jewish, and this is decided by translators by the context. Here are two examples.


 Mark 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

This word nation could only mean a Gentile nation.

I agree, but excuse my ignorance, what is  Syrophenician? Never heard of it.

Tony Warren

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2017, 04:07:32 AM »
>>>
I agree, but excuse my ignorance, what is  Syrophenician? Never heard of it.
<<<

A Syrophoenician is a Greek person from the area of Syria and Phoenicia (Thus Syro-phoenician). Syria and Phoenicia are the same area, and was a province of the Romans.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Tony Warren

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2017, 05:59:34 AM »
>>>
His whole argument and assertion has the Bible in effect saying not for the Jew only, but for the Jew as well.
<<<

Yes. In a nutshell.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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