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Author Topic: The Salvation of the Gentiles  (Read 796 times)

Melanie

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2017, 07:15:41 PM »
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You should be proud of your people,

With few exceptions, I am. For God has blessed them with the spirit of truth to distinguish between bias and unbiased, truth and rhetoric, Jew and Gentile.


 :amen:

Rich Aikers

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 04:21:28 AM »

A Jewish Christian insisted that the Gentiles are heathens as I defined it, wasn't biblical because he believe that the Gentiles who God save are the ones who have Jewish Roots as result from the dispersion of Northern Ten Tribes of Israel that were mixed with the heathens.  He does not believe the heathen Gentiles can be part of Christian Churches unless they first have Jewish root.

I believe that God can save any heathens Gentiles regardless of their Jewish/roots/nations/background, etc. 

So who is right? And why?

Certainly not him. He isn't making much sense at all. I doubt that you could carry on an intelligent conversation with him because he doesn't accept God's word.  God says there is neither Jew nor Greek, they are all one in Christ.  That settles it. I guess he totally dismisses the salvation of the Ethiopian Eunuch, so again talking with him is like talking to the air. Is he going to attempt to prove the Ethiopian was actually a Jew dispersed years before? It's crazy talk.  He's not going to receive anything you give in scripture as credible. As Tony said, if the bible is not their authority, how can you come to any agreement with them on anything? It will always be a matter of private interpretations or his word against yours. Shake the dust of your feet off if that is the case. That's my advice, because it's like trying to convince a Catholic that the Pope isn't like god on earth. It's not going to happen. God is the only one who can draw such people from their delusion. 

Rich Aikers

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 05:33:28 AM »
  While I disagree with Jewish Christian's doctrine, there are some interesting points that I would like to know what is Tony's perspective on these. 

 

Erik, which point do you find interesting? Let's discuss it.


Chicago Bear

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 06:28:35 AM »
You should be proud of your people,

With few exceptions, I am. For God has blessed them with the spirit of truth to distinguish between bias and unbiased, truth and rhetoric, Jew and Gentile.

 :God:Bl-U:  :iagree: Diane, a black woman is my people, Erik a white man is my people, Lieberman a Jewish man is my people. Peng Bao a Chinese man is my people, Spanish, Turkish, Indian, as long as they are in Christ they are all Israel and all my people.

Let me just add this because I did read the article and it lacks an unbiased examination and intelligent scholarship.

It is so sad that this man, and also people like John, George, Bram, Fred, Aquatic, and the rest of the angry peanut gallery, see things in terms of us against them, and in terms of race and national pride. They just never seem to understand that it's not about physical nations like Israel or Egypt, America and Iran, nor about what political party sins the most, or about the greater of two evils, race baiting, etc., it's about the divine truth and work in Christ.

This author like so many in our day is plainly full of himself, drunk on his own sense of superiority, just as Israel was. He thinks his racial makeup is the end all of salvation and deliverance of Israel by God. Like so many today he's brainwashed and has been blinded by God, and that's all there is to it.

The only question is, is he trying to convince you of his version of truth, or are you trying to convince him by the spirit of truth. Because his gospel is not the gospel of Christ. Neither are the political and nationalist gospels today, or the financial gospels or the braggadocious movements, are of Christ. They all say they are, but none are.

As for this man, any gospel that eliminates Gentiles or non-Jews from salvation is plainly not a gospel of Christ, but one of Devils. I would have nothing to do with it. The Devil is here for one purpose. To lie, blasphemy, seduce and deceive those who will not listen to the words of the bible that Jews are who God says they are.

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." Revelation 3:9

The gospel of Christ makes all believers Jews and all those who deny it blasphemers.

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:29

The question is not if he has a good point, but why does he blasphemy the word of God?

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2:9

God knows, sometimes man does not.

Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

David Knoles

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2017, 07:53:34 AM »
While I don't agree with the article by Arnold Kennedy about Gentiles (it's ridiculous), I do agree with his overall understanding about the Jewish people being a special people set apart from the heathen nations. They are a special people and that can't be taken from them.

Deuteronomy 7:6
"For a holy people art thou unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be unto him a people for a possession, above all the peoples that are upon the face of the earth".

You can't take that away from the Jews.

aquatic

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2017, 10:13:05 AM »
Chicago Bear,
Looks hypocritical when you specifically call out 5-6 of our names and in the same sentence accuse them of an" US versus them" mentality. Does that really help anything when you single out names? You aren't the only one that does this.  Not only that but accuse "us" of not understanding the work of Christ.

I forgive you

Chicago Bear

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2017, 11:47:50 AM »
Chicago Bear,
Looks hypocritical when you specifically call out 5-6 of our names and in the same sentence accuse them of an" US versus them" mentality. Does that really help anything when you single out names?

Obviously you missed my point, which was that you guys are an angry peanut gallery with your eyes always on the world, its morality (not the church's), its taxes, race baiting, national pride, exclusionism, physical Jews and kingdoms (Fred, George, Dan), the mammon of unrighteousness, etc. Did you ever read of the apostle Paul worrying about such matters? Did you hear him justifying the Jewish leaders simply because He was a Pharisee, or they were of his former party? He left that to the people with their eyes on the world, and he placed his on a government ruled from heaven.

And of course, you still miss the point. It's not about us vs them in politics or race, it's about us vs them in the church and its enemies. Not because I don't want to pay health care for some poor soul, but because I don't want my church taking its eyes off itself and placing them on things that in the big picture don't matter. What I mean is, just as Tony said, we're never going to change the world, nor was that the job given us. We weren't called to be watchmen of the world, but to be a light of the world. We were set as watchmen of the Lord's house, and you guys (named) are so angry about the world and its politics and so busy with that agenda you don't even recognize truth when you hear it. I don't apologize for saying that, because it is the truth. When's the last time You, John, Bram or Philly Dawg posted anything that wasn't about politics, race, fake news, Trump or the liberal media? I rest my case.

It shows your mind is not on Christ but on the world and its current events. So again, it's not liberals against conservatives, Republicans against Democrats, it's that world that is against the church. We are soldiers in a army, but its not political. Why can't you and the rest of the angry peanut gallery see that without being offended? My guess is stubbornness or what my granny use to call pigheadedness.


Quote
You aren't the only one that does this.  Not only that but accuse "us" of not understanding the work of Christ.

You clearly don't, since you think it is to support the wild (and some might say crazy) theories going around the internet, the lies of the radical right. Even as others support the wild and crazy theories and lies of the radical left. What you don't understand is that they are both of the same unrepentant groups under rule of Satan. They both actually think that they are doing good in the world. The only real good we can do is spread the gospel of Christ, not Trump, Obama or Clinton. Christians aren't on either side, they are on the side of truth, which is in Christ. I don't think Trump is a man of God anymore than I thought Obama, Clinton or George Bush was. But they are appointed leaders. It's like the Scribes vs the Pharisees, they were those appointed to lead, but they are both cut out of the same cloth. It's foolish for me to side with one when they are both the same enemies of God. That's like some Christians here siding with Israel because they say they love God. Does that mean Israel is God's anointed people. Those who know different say no, and for their good work they get called antisemitic. The anger of these people is no different than Yours, Bram's, John's or Fred over liberals, immigrants or obamacare. Your eyes are on the wrong place. I do not apologize for saying that.


Quote
I forgive you

Thank you, but I would much rather prefer you open your eyes and turn them away from the world and put them on understanding the real work of Christ. The work I say you don't understand we all should be doing. I'll change my mind when I open my bible and see Jesus ranting about having to pay Roman taxes, or Peter angry because the government allowed an Ethiopian into the country, or Paul upset because the liberals of his country wouldn't listen and stop leading the Jews down a sinful path. But of course, they had more pressing priorities.

Now please don't continue this, let's stay on topic, which is the salvation of the Gentiles. Gentiles being liberals, conservatives, blacks, whites, rich, poor, Romans, Greeks and yes, even Mexicans.

Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

Mila Ostrovsky

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2017, 12:58:54 PM »
Wow!  :amen:

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2017, 02:21:10 PM »

Erik, which point do you find interesting? Let's discuss it.


Okay, for example:
 
Quote from: Arnold Kennedy, "That Unfortunate Word "GENTILE


Let us look at some Old Testament Scriptures where the word Gowy, Goi or Goyim are used. If we apply the logic concerning “Gentiles” for these words, we can see the ridiculous conclusions that could be reached. Remember that Goi and Ethnos are used of Israel as well as of other races.


Genesis 12:1,2: "Now the LORD said unto Abram...and I will make of thee a great nation (goi)"


Genesis 17:5: "A father of many nations (goyim) have I made thee."


Did YEHOVAH God make a great non-Israel “Gentile” nation out of Abraham and did Abraham father many Gentiles? Was that great nation other than Israel? Did not Israel have many tribes which are sometimes referred to as “nations” (goyim)?

Why did Arnold insisted that non-Israel "Gentile" nation can't come from Abraham since he did not father the Gentiles? Pride? Blindness? Misunderstood?


"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2017, 02:31:25 PM »
Quote from: Chicago Bear
Thank you, but I would much rather prefer you open your eyes and turn them away from the world and put them on understanding the real work of Christ. The work I say you don't understand we all should be doing. I'll change my mind when I open my bible and see Jesus ranting about having to pay Roman taxes, or Peter angry because the government allowed an Ethiopian into the country, or Paul upset because the liberals of his country wouldn't listen and stop leading the Jews down a sinful path. But of course, they had more pressing priorities.Now please don't continue this, let's stay on topic, which is the salvation of the Gentiles. Gentiles being liberals, conservatives, blacks, whites, rich, poor, Romans, Greeks and yes, even Mexicans.

I totally understand your frustration.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2017, 02:48:19 PM »
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I do agree with his overall understanding about the Jewish people being a special people set apart from the heathen nations. They are a special people and that can't be taken from them.Deuteronomy 7:6"For a holy people art thou unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be unto him a people for a possession, above all the peoples that are upon the face of the earth".You can't take that away from the Jews.

Actually, you need to compare the verse with the rest of Scripture:

Deu 7:6
[6]  For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Deu 14:2
[2]  For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

And Peter speaking to the New Testament Congregation, said the same way:

1Pe 2:9
[9]  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Point being, God has chosen people, Jews and Gentiles, out of all nations, including national Israel, to be His Holy People, and a peculiar people, starting with Old Testament congregation and then New Testament congregation. God is talking about His Covenant Israel which is a holy nation.  Not Middle Eastern nation of Israel.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Reformed Baptist

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2017, 01:10:02 AM »
Obviously you missed my point, which was that you guys are an angry peanut gallery with your eyes always on the world, its morality (not the church's), its taxes, race baiting, national pride, exclusionism, physical Jews and kingdoms (Fred, George, Dan), the mammon of unrighteousness, etc.

And of course, you still miss the point. It's not about us vs them in politics or race, it's about us vs them in the church and its enemies. Not because I don't want to pay health care for some poor soul, but because I don't want my church taking its eyes off itself and placing them on things that in the big picture don't matter. What I mean is, just as Tony said, we're never going to change the world, nor was that the job given us. We weren't called to be watchmen of the world, but to be a light of the world. We were set as watchmen of the Lord's house, and you guys (named) are so angry about the world and its politics and so busy with that agenda you don't even recognize truth when you hear it. I don't apologize for saying that, because it is the truth. When's the last time You, John, Bram or Philly Dawg posted anything that wasn't about politics, race, fake news, Trump or the liberal media? I rest my case.

 :GoodPopst: Awesome post Bear! Jesus put it this way.

Matthew 6:21-22
"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."


Rich Aikers

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2017, 04:35:06 AM »


Okay, for example:

Did YEHOVAH God make a great non-Israel “Gentile” nation out of Abraham and did Abraham father many Gentiles?

Yes. The great nation that is the Gentile church established by Christ, and promised to Abraham and his seed, which is Christ.

I Peter 2:9
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

And who do we think governs this mighty nation?

Isaiah 9:6
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."


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Was that great nation other than Israel?

It was Israel, but not Israel of the flesh who rejected Christ as ruler over them.


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Did not Israel have many tribes which are sometimes referred to as “nations” (goyim)?


Of coursem, because thety were individual groups and families (which nations means), the tribe of Judah, the tribe of Benjamin, etc.


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Why did Arnold insisted that non-Israel "Gentile" nation can't come from Abraham since he did not father the Gentiles? Pride? Blindness? Misunderstood?

Because he starts out with a assumption that Gentiles are actually Jews and then tries to find support for that. The reason is obviously because in his vanity he doesn't want to admit that non-Jews are saved by Christ as well? This contradicts everything Christ stood for. So his premise is not true, and so everything he says after that based on that premise must also be judged untrue. The false premise is his understanding that the word translated Gentiles means dispersed Jews. That conclusion is not based on any sound bible study or anything the bible says, but his own subjective and biased reasoning.

Genesis 10:5
"By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."

From the very beginning in Genesis we see the word translated Gentiles referring to the nations, not the Jewish people. Both words there Gentiles and Nations are the very same word gowy, referring to the nations of the world and not Jews.


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Why did Arnold insisted that non-Israel "Gentile" nation can't come from Abraham since he did not father the Gentiles?

That's a good question but one that is not difficult to answer. He is obviously defining Jews by flesh or direct lineage, a method that God's word plainly says is wrong. So why would anyone listen to this man when he clearly is not listening to God?

Romans 2:25-29
 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Beware those who deny the word. Does he not understand what "he is not a Jew by flesh" means? Or what the uncircumcision being made the circumcision means? Or what "all Israel are not really Israel, but in Isaac shall thy seed be called," must  means? It means there are no Gentiles when the seed of Abraham, which is Christ, makes them Jews.



Rich Aikers

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2017, 04:39:14 AM »

 :GoodPopst: Awesome post Bear! Jesus put it this way.

Matthew 6:21-22
"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."

 :ditto:  Time for Christians to be Christians and not political hacks. To stand for truth and not political parties. To support the conversion of sinners souls rather than their political ideologies. As the false teaching by Arnold Kennedy proves,

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/unfortunateword.html

We have our work cut out for us. It only proves, Satan is the great deceiver. Look what he did to the nation of Israel and today's churches that support that same doctrine.


Reformer

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 05:24:34 AM »
Tony has addressed this word ethnos many times over the years. Bottom line is that it means a family, race or ethnic groups, and by extension different families, nations, races or ethnic groups. The Bible uses it extensively to speak of the non-jews or foreigners with relationship to Israel or the Jews.

Eph 2:11
 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


 


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