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Author Topic: Who Is The Man of Sin?  (Read 17295 times)

Kenneth White

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2004, 07:02:03 AM »
What makes all these great reformers wrong about this?
Quote
Who says that they were? Writing in 1556 in his commentary on 1st John, John Calvin said this,


Shirley, the more I hear the Calvinists quote John Calvin as if his word is on a par with God's, instead of quoting the bible, the more I understand what Tony Warren says about not being a Calvinist but a Christian. They are their own worst enemies in arguing Scripture with Calvin's words all the time. They're glorifying this man.

I don't really care what John Calvin said about the Antichrist, the Pope is not the Antichrist, neither the Roman Catholic Church, or the system. At least not anymore than the Episcopalian Church that is ordaining homosexual ministers. There are lots of Antichrist Churches.

 1 John 2:18  "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time".

That's proof that Calvin was wrong, because there were many Antichrists there long before the Roman Catholic Church.

 1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world".

John Calvin was a product of his time and struggle in the RCC. In his day he was so wrapped up in the battle for the church that this is all his mind was on. But Satan is the Antichrist, and whatever church he is in is an Antichrist system. Not just the Roman Catholic Church.

Do you think that Satan is not ruling the Pentecostal churches or the liberal Protestant churches? To say the Roman Catholic church is the Antichrist misses the point and takes the heat off Protestant false churches.

Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Kenneth White

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2004, 07:08:49 AM »
Barry Gritters, respected calvinist author and theologian makes the claim that the Antichrist is both an individual person, and a political power. Is this the general calvinist view?

No. That sounds more like a Premillennial view rather than Reformed view. But I don't think Barry is a Premillennialist. But I could be wrong.
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2004, 10:21:13 PM »
Calvin, quoted by Shirley:
Quote
All the marks by which the Spirit of God has pointed out antichrist appear clearly in the Pope

Kenneth:
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I don't really care what John Calvin said about the antichrist

Kenneth, I fear you are misunderstanding what Calvin is saying here.  You've added an extra word in - the word 'the'.  The idea that the pope is the antichrist is not reformational teaching, rather it's the idea that the pope is antichrist.  Do you see the distinction.  We get the same thing in the Westminster Confession.

Now, some say that's because the WCF is leaving the door open to postmillenialism.  Regardless of whether that's the case or not, we do have to be careful about saying that the reformers taught that the pope was 'the' antichrist.

Shirley

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2004, 08:48:14 AM »
Shirley, the more I hear the Calvinists quote John Calvin as if his word is on a par with God's, instead of quoting the bible, the more I understand what Tony Warren says about not being a Calvinist but a Christian. They are their own worst enemies in arguing Scripture with Calvin's words all the time. They're glorifying this man.

I don't really care what John Calvin said about the Antichrist, the Pope is not the Antichrist, neither the Roman Catholic Church, or the system. At least not anymore than the Episcopalian Church that is ordaining homosexual ministers. There are lots of Antichrist Churches.

I agree with that. I only quoted Calvin because of the typical Calvinist position that the Pope represents Antichrist, and that is the historical Protestant position. The position that Satan is the Antichrist is relatively new. Identifying the pope with the Antichrist is not a new message, Protestant leaders including Martin Luther, John Knox, and John Calvin all hold a similar view.

Chicago Bear

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2004, 12:56:30 PM »
2 Thess 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Barry Gritters, respected calvinist author and theologian makes the claim that the Antichrist is both an individual person, and a political power. Is this the general calvinist view?


No, it's not the general view, in fact it's pretty much the fringe view of only a minority of Reformed theologians. Though many Reformers did see it as a political system, that view is also incorrect and in my view cultural. The only politics I believe that the Antichrist is interested in is Church politics in the form of a hostile takeover.

Either the Bible will Keep you from Sin, or sin will keep you from the Bible

Shoan

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2004, 09:55:33 AM »
 :'(

it is so sad that you don't understand who the man of sin is????
Anyways I dont blame U as we all were blinded to truth before,unless the Lord had mercy on us we wudnt have understood His sweet counsel from His word.

Let me shed some light on who the man of sin is thru some scriptures....

1Thess 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes6 and the man of lawlessness7 is revealed, the son of destruction.8 2:4 He9 opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, and as a result he takes his seat10 in God’s temple, displaying himself as God.11 2:5 Surely you recall12 that I used to tell you these things while I was still with you. 2:6 And so13 you know what holds him back,14 so that he will be revealed in his own time. 2:7 For the hidden power of lawlessness15 is already at work. However, the one who holds him back16 will do so until he is taken out of the way, 2:8 and then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord17 will destroy by the breath of his mouth and wipe out by the manifestation of his arrival. 2:9 The arrival of the lawless one18 will be by Satan’s working with all kinds of miracles19 and signs and false wonders, 2:10 and with every kind of evil deception directed against20 those who are perishing, because they found no place in their hearts for the truth21 so as to be saved. 2:11 Consequently22 God sends on them a deluding influence23 so that they will believe what is false. 2:12 And so24 all of them who have not believed the truth but have delighted in evil will be condemned.

Isaiah 14:3 When the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and anxiety,6 and from the hard labor which you were made to perform, 14:4 you will taunt the king of Babylon with these words:7 “Look how the oppressor has met his end! Hostility8 has ceased!

14:5 The Lord has broken the club of the wicked, the scepter of rulers.14:6 It9 furiously struck down nations with unceasing blows.It angrily ruled over nations, oppressing them without restraint.14:7 The whole earth rests and is quiet; they break into song. 14:8 The evergreens also rejoice over your demise,as do the cedars of Lebanon, singing,‘Since you fell asleep,no woodsman comes up to chop us down!’14:9 Sheol below is stirred up about you, ready to meet you when you arrive.It rouses the spirits of the dead for you, all the former leaders of the earth;
it makes all the former kings of the nations rise from their thrones.14:10 All of them respond to you, saying: ‘You’ve also become weak like us! You’ve become just like us! 14:11 Your splendor has been brought down to Sheol, as well as the sound of your stringed instruments.You lie on a bed of maggots,with a blanket of worms over you.14:12 Look how you have fallen from the sky,
O shining one, son of the dawn!You’ve been cut down to the ground,O O conqueror of the nations!14:13 You said to yourself,“I will climb up to the sky. Above the stars of El I will set up my throne. I will rule on the mountain of assembly on the remote slopes of Zaphon.14:14 I will climb up to the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High!”14:15 But you were brought down to Sheol, to the remote slopes of the pit.14:16 Those who see you stare at you,
they look at you carefully, thinking:“Is this the man who shook the earth, the one who made kingdoms tremble? 14:17 Is this the one who made the world like a desert, who ruined its cities, and refused to free his prisoners so they could return home?”’14:18 As for all the kings of the nations,all of them lie down in splendor,each in his own tomb.14:19 But you have been thrown out of your grave like a shoot that is thrown away.You lie among the slain, among those who have been slashed by the sword, among those headed for the stones of the pit,as if you were a mangled corpse.14:20 You will not be buried with them,because you destroyed your land and killed your people. The offspring of the wicked will never be mentioned again.


IN THE ABOVE VERSE SATAN AND HIS MAN OF SIN(THE KING OF BABYLON) ARE ADDRESSED.

LET'S SEE EZEKIEL28

28:11 The word of the Lord came to me: 28:12 “Son of man, lament for11 the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“‘You were the signet ring of perfection,

full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God.12

Every precious stone was your covering,

the ruby, topaz, and diamond,

the beryl, onyx, and jasper,

the sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;

your settings and engravings were made of gold.

On the day you were created they were prepared.

28:14 I placed you there with an anointed guardian13 cherub;14

you were on the holy mountain of God;

you walked in the midst the stones of fire.

28:15 You were blameless in your behavior15 from the day you were created,

until sin was discovered in you.

28:16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence,16

and you sinned;

so I defiled you and banished you17 from the mountain of God,

the guardian cherub expelled you18 from the midst of the stones of fire.

28:17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty;

you perverted your wisdom on account of your splendor.

I threw you down to the ground;

I placed you before kings, that they might see you.

28:18 By the multitude of your iniquities,

through the sinfulness of your trade,

you desecrated your sanctuaries.

So I brought out fire from within you; it consumed you,

and I turned you to ashes on the earth before the eyes of all who saw you.

28:19 All who know you among the peoples are shocked at you;

you have become terrified and will be no more.’”

IN THE ABOVE VERSES BOTH SATAN AND HIS MANOF SIN THE KING OF TRYE ARE ADDRESSED.

IN JOHN WE SEE JESUS ADDRESSING SATAN AND HIS MAN OF SIN JUDAS...READ CAREFULLY

13:21 When he had said these things, Jesus was greatly distressed50 in spirit, and testified,51 “I tell you the solemn truth,52 one of you will betray me.”53 13:22 The disciples began to look at one another, worried and perplexed54 to know which of them he was talking about. 13:23 One of his disciples, the one Jesus loved,55 was at the table56 to the right of Jesus in a place of honor.57 13:24 So Simon Peter58 gestured to this disciple59 to ask Jesus60 who it was he was referring to.61 13:25 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved62 leaned back against Jesus’ chest and asked him, “Lord, who is it?” 13:26 Jesus replied,63 “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread64 after I have dipped it in the dish.”65 Then he dipped the piece of bread in the dish66 and gave it to Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son. 13:27 And after Judas67 took the piece of bread, Satan entered into him.68 Jesus said to him,69 “What you are about to do, do quickly.”http://

1JOHN 2

2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists39 have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour. 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained40 with us. But41 they went out from us42 to demonstrate43 that all of them do not belong to us.44

SO THE ANTI CHRIST OR MAN OF SIN IS THE ONE WHOM SATAN POSSESES AND USES TO ACCOMPLISH HIS PURPOSES......SURELY I DONT DENY THE POPEIS ANTI CHRIST....I SAY HE IS ONE OF TEH MANY ANTICHRIST AND NOT THE ONLY ANTI CHRIST....THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ONE WHO WORKS AGAINST CHRIST.....PEACE

Dutch

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2004, 07:06:38 AM »

Shoan, I agree with you.

2Thess. 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Tradition notwithstanding, the man of sin can only be the spirit Satan as he causes man to sin. I don't know why so many christians come up with the idea that he is going to be a world leader, but that's just the stuff of book sales, not of the bible. I think the commentary of Burket was closest to the truth. He said:

As if the apostle had said, "Let no man deceive you in this article of your faith, by any pretence whatsoever; for before Christ's coming there shall come a great falling away from the catholic faith, and by that means the man of sin will be revealed, who is the son of perdition:"--
 
Note here, 1. Such a proneness there is in the nature and mind of man to embrace and entertain error, when once vented, that there is need of repeated dissuasives from it, and to guard persons against the poison and infatuation of it. Let no man deceive you by any means.
 
Note, 2. A general apostasy or defection of the visible church from the faith of Christianity, must be before Christ's coming to judgment; Except there come a falling away first. It is foretold as a thing that would certainly come to pass.
 
Note, 3. The revelation of Antichrist declared, That man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition; where by the man of sin, understand not a particular individual person, but a society and succession of men, such as is found in and amongst the papacy, where the sodomy, blasphemy, incest, adultries, sorceries, murders, treasons, which are not only committed, but countenanced; not only acted, but authorized; do most evidently declare that there never was such an apostasy from Christianity since it had a being in the world, as is found amongst them.
 
Note, 4. This man of sin is also styled the son of perdition.
 
(1.) Actively, a destroying son, one that brings others to destruction.
 
(2.) Passively, a son that shall be destroyed; Antichrist and all his adherents shall be destroyed, utterly destroyed, by Jesus Christ, and his kingdom shall perish without any hope of recovery; first destroying, and at last destroyed.
 
Where note, That our apostle at the first, the very first, mentioning Antichrist, doth declare his destiny; at his first rising he declares his fall and ruin. That man of sin, the son of perdition.


He understood it not as a single man, and not as the pope, but he still was preoccupied with the papacy, which most all early christians apparently were.

David Knoles

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2004, 02:47:57 AM »
Everytime I come back here, someone has written something wrong about eschatology. The Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, is he that opposeth and exalteth himself, and the Wicked One whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and he whose coming is after the working of Satan. All these point distinctly to a single individual. You'll just have to face that.

And the Antichrost will be a Jewish person, though not necessarily confined to Israel. Because the very name "Antichrist" argues strongly for his Jewish nationality. For the Jews are "opposed" to Christ, and Ezekiel says he will be a prince of Israel. Likewise Daniel.

 Da 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

TheAntichrist shall come in by peace and flatteries, so he will be a politician or a man of economic background. If you don't believe the truth you will be deceived by him.


Dwight

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2004, 03:30:11 AM »

Is everyone so sure that the man of sin and the antichrist are the same? The antichrist has been here before, but the man of sin is future isn't he?



 


Reformer

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2005, 11:30:02 AM »

Is everyone so sure that the man of sin and the antichrist are the same? The antichrist has been here before, but the man of sin is future isn't he?



The Antichrist is future also, and the man of sin is past also. The man of sin is also called the son of perdition, and Christ called Judas the son of perdition. And

 1 John 4:3
  "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

They had heard the Antichrist shall come is future, and even now was that current time. So the Antichrist is Satan and the man of sin is Satan. But Satan works within man. See Tony Warren's study on the Antichrist. The Antichrist coming is Satan being loosed that man becomes wicked and forsakes God's law making him the man of sin. As Satan indwelled Judas and he became the son of perdition.



Miguel Angel Chaparro

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2005, 05:02:12 AM »
 

Some good post in here, the man of sin is Satan himself. We can see that he is at work by looking at the condition of the assemblies that professes Christ, he is against the world for the word have been given to him but the body of Christ.

1 Peter 2:5 5 you also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 4:17 17 For the time has come for the judgment to begin from the house of God. And if it first begins from us, what will be the end of those disobeying the gospel of God?

Psa 48:1 Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of His holiness.

Gods Child

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2005, 03:49:17 PM »
The man of sin is those throwing falsehoods into the churches and making them of no use to salvation. Satan is a spirit, he doesn't need to be in a phisical body to fool mankind, he just uses man for that work.

If satan uses the papacy to do that well so be it...

All those men being used by Satan are his antichrists or instead of the WORD. (Anti-Word)
Jesus is the living Word ,therefore if you are an antichrist you are an anti or instead of preacher of false doctrines. Also the number of the beast is also the number of the man that being the #666 #6 being the spiritual # for mens work.


And they (these false doctrines) are rampant, that's the reason I believe satan is now loosed into the religous system.
Remember being a Christ Man is a way of life, NOT a religion. going to church doesn't qualify you as a Christian.


It won't be long befor all denominations (if they aren't already) will be corupt in my opinion.
Already many denominations let the sheep have their way even if it's harmfull to the herd.
Or they rip them off and feed theirselves, and let the flock starve.

I believe Jesus will place all the real elect together in one place soon. A place where they will be protected

(His Holy Mountain comes to mind) :)

Then he is gonna let all the rest go wild, and many will perish from famine, war, and desease.
(the movie Mad Max comes to mind here)..total chaos and bloodshed.

Then when His elect come into danger...he will return and destroy those attacking His flock and establish His kingdom.

Pro 1:7 
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Baerchild

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2005, 04:16:23 PM »
I believe Jesus will place all the real elect together in one place soon. A place where they will be protected

====

Then when His elect come into danger...he will return and destroy those attacking His flock and establish His kingdom.
Gods Child,

I agree with much of what you are saying is in The Word of God, but can you provide a verse or two which might seem to support your opinions as quoted above?

Jim

Gods Child

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2005, 07:18:26 PM »
God placed all His shepherds here to feed and nourish His children, when they have begun to steal food from the children of God they cause God's wrath to come down. Notice the Woe unto the shepherds here in this verse...

Eze 34:2  Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
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But God wants all His children to come to Him...He gave us all a certain amount of time to do that. that amount of time of course is unknown to mankind.

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

**********
And how can you reveal something , unless it has not been hidden all along? What better place to hide satans works than in the churches?

2Th 2:8   And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
**********
What better way to do that than preach via satalite to other nations and continents..overcome by false doctrine.

Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
**********
The gathering together..He says beloved city and the camp of the saints...this is the end of all tribulation so I imagine MANY saints will have gathered into this camp by then.

Rev 20:9  And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

**********

Jesus also says in Rev 20:8 these armies will be the world nations against God and His people, not Satan himself.

Rev 20:8  And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
***********

sorry, next time i'll place scripture up here when needed  :)
as for the war against the lamb and the chosen..

Rev 17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

hope this clears up what I said
**********
Pro 1:7 
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Gods Child

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Re: Who Is The Man of Sin?
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2005, 07:30:36 PM »
city- #4172 *polis* - in the greek in Strongs.

city, town, village so it would seem to have to be a place not a state of mind.

now if you count it as two places as it says in rev 20:9
compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city:

that would then be the city and a camp?
or it could be the camp which is the beloved city,( possibly Jerusalem? <--just a guess here)

might make a good study  :)
Pro 1:7 
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 


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