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Author Topic: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months  (Read 1505 times)

Erik Diamond

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They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« on: May 23, 2007, 06:40:18 PM »
Rev 9:4  And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5  And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6  And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Can anyone tell me what is biblical signification for five?  How long will five months of torment last? I think it might cover the whole great tribulation period. 

Thanks,
Erik

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Joshua Ashley

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 10:18:09 PM »
Hi Erik,


I think the #5 is giving refrance to judgement.

Exd 38:1 And he made the altar of burnt offering [of] shittim wood: five cubits [was] the length thereof, and five cubits the breadth thereof; [it was] foursquare; and three cubits the height thereof.

the altar of cource was a type of the CHRIST, but it showed man daliy the judgment of sin. And it was covered with brass (judgement)

but some other verse dealing with 5 seem to be dealing with grace. but Rev 9 dosn't seem to be grace to those who are not the LORD's, for the wicked have not grace. So it must be speaking of judgment.

so "this" 5 is dealing with judgment. and they fall not find death. There allready spiritual dead, this death means an end to there tourment, judgment, their derision. they seek it but can not find an end,,, any comfort.


And also if we go back to verse...

Rev 9:2  And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

when satan is loosed that starts the GT

so you are correct in stateing this is in the GT. and i belive it is the whole GT period.


And also this is the fith angel sounding. hmmm and he is also puring out judgment on the wicked.
Rev 4:11  Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Joshua Ashley

andreas

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2007, 02:47:32 AM »
<<<I think the #5 is giving refrance to judgement.>>>

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. Revelation 9.

We have a reference to 150 days/5 months in Genesis.In both cases, for 150 days, the deep, 8415,or bottomless pit,or abyss, released a stream to punish unrepentant men.

24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. Genesis 7.

1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;
2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. Genesis 8.

Which parallels,

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. Revelation 9.

andreas.

kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Erik Diamond

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2007, 12:14:00 PM »
Thank you people for your response.

I often wondering whether the 5 months of torment started at the beginning of Great Tribulation period when Satan was being loosened, but the first part of Great Tribulation period (ie. 1,260th to 1,290th day) is not judgment of the church.  It was a period of Two Witnesses being killed as well as half an hour of silence in heaven. The hour of judgment of Babylon actually started on 1,290th day and will last until 1,335th day and Second Coming. So is it possible to consider that 5 months of torment covered the second part of Great Tribulation period because of judgment upon Babylon or the whole great tribulation period, starting with Satan loosening? Just keep in mind that the judgment did not start until after Two Witnesses has been resurrected with Spirit of Life (Spiritual discernment) so they can flee judgment. 

Your thought?

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Joshua Ashley

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2007, 05:30:36 PM »
Hi Erik,

you said
Quote

I often wondering whether the 5 months of torment started at the beginning of Great Tribulation period when Satan was being loosened, but the first part of Great Tribulation period (ie. 1,260th to 1,290th day) is not judgment of the church.

wouldn't satan being loosed be THE judgment on the church, in this world anyway and the LORD withdrawing his presence out of the church, and salvation ending? correct me if i'm wrong, but i think the judgment as them beliving a lie and being damned. And not some city burning like sodom.

look at OT Israel, judea. when ever GOD was sending captivity there was always first came spirtual famine, pestalince, death first. So as the 1260th as satan is loosed, that being loosed is the judgment, its spiritual.

2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


 2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



Quote

Just keep in mind that the judgment did not start until after Two Witnesses has been resurrected with Spirit of Life (Spiritual discernment) so they can flee judgment. 


don't you think there not being able to see the truth is there judgment upon them? and not after they left, but seems it would intenseify after they left.

Rev 11:10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.



Rev 20:3  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

now when he's loosed he start's deciving. this deciving being a form of judgment, as I can't think of anything else in this world as not being able to understand the truth when i want very badly too, this to me would be far worse than death of first born, darkness, frogs ect


What do you think?

Joshua Ashley
Rev 4:11  Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Joshua Ashley

Gerry

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 12:28:51 AM »

Rev. Jason Kortering says of Revelation Chapter 6 and the locusts out of the abyss that the five months is simply the normal time of the season for locusts. This is what he says about it, your comments welcomed.

"Under this control of God, Satan gives command to Apollyon, and through him to all the evil spirits of the abyss, to come forth and attack evil men. We must observe carefully that his interest is not in attacking the church, rather "those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads" vs. 4. This does not mean that evil spirits have no interest in the church, see Revelation 12:15-17; rather the point of view of this text is the relationship of Satan to his cohorts as they attack the wicked. This must go on for five months or for the normal period of time in which locusts would make their annual attack upon the crops, i.e., their allotted time."


Melanie

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 08:17:40 AM »
The fact that this chapter speaks in symbolic terms makes me think it is symbolic. The locusts are shaped like horses that are prepared for war, they wear crowns on their heads so they are kings. And their faces are as the faces of men. Nothing literal here so the 5 months wouldn't be either. That would seem out of place, would it not?

Reformed Baptist

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 12:09:54 PM »
The 5 months doesn't appear to be literal, because it's obviously the time between when the pit is opened and the torment end. I would think that is more than 5 literal months.  :BibleRead:

George

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2017, 04:48:38 AM »
The 5 months are literally 5 months or torment. That's what it says, that's what it is.

Erik Diamond

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 11:46:18 AM »
Quote
The fact that this chapter speaks in symbolic terms makes me think it is symbolic. The locusts are shaped like horses that are prepared for war, they wear crowns on their heads so they are kings. And their faces are as the faces of men. Nothing literal here so the 5 months wouldn't be either. That would seem out of place, would it not?

Agreed.

Many people claim that the five months should be literally because they do not understand the spiritual signification of 5 months.  It represents "spiritually" the length of time from the loosing of the Beast from the bottomless pit to the return of Jesus Christ.  We know that once all Covenant Israel has been sealed (Revelation 7:1-4) and the testimony of Two Witnesses has been finished (Revelation 11:7-8), all unfaithful who have not been sealed by God (Revelation 9:4-5) will experience pain, being tormented. In other words, they will either seek salvation (seek death in Christ) or have desire to be saved (die in christ) but will not find it because they are being deceived by the false gospel/signs and lying wonders brought upon them by the false prophets and christs. Let check one of physical plague of Egypt:   


Exo 10:12-15
(12)  And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the land of Egypt for the locusts, that they may come up upon the land of Egypt, and eat every herb of the land, even all that the hail hath left.
(13)  And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind upon the land all that day, and all that night; and when it was morning, the east wind brought the locusts.
(14)  And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt, and rested in all the coasts of Egypt: very grievous were they; before them there were no such locusts as they, neither after them shall be such.
(15)  For they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the land was darkened; and they did eat every herb of the land, and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left: and there remained not any green thing in the trees, or in the herbs of the field, through all the land of Egypt.

During the plague, God has sent the locusts upon Egypt to eat every green thing until there is no green thing left. So in the book of Revelation, God pictures the locusts as many false prophets and christs that are coming into the congregation of God where they will destroy (eat) every green things (Truthful Gospel) until there is none left to save anyone.  This is why the unfaithful will not be able to find salvation anymore because they are being tormented or deceived by false prophets and christs. It is because they did not love the truth in the first place. They were not sealed by God. 

 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Melanie

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 06:00:11 PM »
Yes, I think it is so obviously a symbolic plague like those of Egypt when they held god's people captive. It's something that God has brought upon those who have fought against Christ and his church. How long it lasts, I don't know but it starts when God opens the bottomless pit.

Psalm 105:33-35
"He smote their vines also and their fig trees; and brake the trees of their coasts.
He spake, and the locusts came, and caterpillers, and that without number,
And did eat up all the herbs in their land, and devoured the fruit of their ground".

Erik Diamond

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 07:23:21 PM »
Quote
It's something that God has brought upon those who have fought against Christ and his church. How long it lasts, I don't know but it starts when God opens the bottomless pit.

Correct.

We did not know when it started and how long it will last.  Only God knows.  He did promise through that His Elect will know when they see the signs which I believe is happening already.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Shirley

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2017, 02:17:52 AM »
Melanie. Yes, it starts when the pit is opened, but doesn't it end when the church is brought to desolation? Isn't that when the true believers stand far off from her?

Tony Warren

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 05:42:15 AM »
>>>
Rev. Jason Kortering says of Revelation Chapter 6 and the locusts out of the abyss that the five months is simply the normal time of the season for locusts.
<<<

with all due respect, nothing in the book of Revelation is just a normal number or time without any symbolic, representational or spiritual meaning to it. The entire book of Revelation is a collage of cryptic numbers, figures, imagery, enigmatic representations, symbolism, analogies and metaphors. For me to agree with that would be like saying the one thousand year reign was just a normal one thousand years (as some Theologians did before 1000 years had passed). Or that the 7 churches simply spoke concerning those literal seven churches. I can't agree with that as the seven are a "representation" a symbol of some deeper spiritual truth. Seven being the number of completeness or the totality. There's not a single number in the book of Revelation that doesn't carry some symbolic spiritual significance. These numbers, like the imagery of the pit, dragon, smoke, locusts, stings, etc., aren't literal/physical, and so how can we think that we can take the 5 months out of this "symbolic context" and make it literally 5 months. No more than saying the 2 Witnesses are literally two witnesses. It's contrary to the whole of Scripture. Especially from a book where numbers are so obviously used symbolically. For example the 42 months, the 144,000 sealed of Israel, the 24 elders before the throne, the 1000 year reign, the 10 horns of the Dragon, the 7 Spirits of God, the 2 witnesses, the 4 horsemen, the 12 stars in heaven, and so on and so on. The 5 months "represents" the time period between when God gives authority to open the bottomless bit or abyss and loose the spirit of Antichrist against His rebellious house, and the time when the house is left in ruins or desolated. This as judgment for their rebellion in serving lawless man rather than God. As in Revelation 20 where Satan and his minions come against the camp of the saints, not against the world, which he already have enslaved. He gathers the nations against the camp of believers. He wants to extend his rule to the kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 9:1-2 correlates to Revelation chapter 20 when Satan is loosed from this same bottomless pit to assault the camp of the saints.

Revelation 9:1-2
  • "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
  • And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

The messenger (star) that John saw had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit by the Lord in order to render judgment upon his unrepenting church. This is just as God promised the fallen star, the messenger of the church, what would happen if he didn't repent from his evil. God promised that his (the star's) church would be removed out of its place. The same rule always applies, that Scripture interprets Scripture, God's word explains God's word, not man. And God interprets both the star that had fallen and the result of it if he didn't repent.

Revelation 1:20
  • "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

The Lord Himself decyphers the mystery of the symbol of the star and the Candlestick (lampstand) in His word so that there can be no misunderstanding in this uncovering. The stars He reveals are actually the messengers of the churches, and the candlesticks He assures us are actually the churches. This is according to God's revelation of the mystery of this symbolism. Now we ead further and discern the warning that God Himself specifically gives to the star that had fallen.

Revelation 2:5
  • "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

So then we have God's interpretation of the heaven from which the star fell, exactly what the star that had fallen represented, and that God would indeed bring judgment upon that stars church by removing it out of its place if the messenger didn't remember from where he had fallen and repent. Allowing the Relevator to reveal this truth we see that God illustrates that it is because of this fallen star that the church is judged, and God removes it out of its place.

Indeed, only Christ has the key to the bottomless pit and at the appointed time of judgment upon the fallen star will He loose the spirit of Satan from the pit that his church be removed out of its place. This removal of the candlestick (the church) is what darkens the world (Luke 8:16-17). i.e., the light that was once there is put out or become dim when it is removed. These are spiritual truths concerning God's judgment upon lawless man, the fallen messenger that is ruling in His holy Temple as if he were God. The 5 months of this anguish upon the church for the messengers rebellion is the length of time of the great tribulation there. This great tribulation of the church is the same torment of those who are hurt by the locust-like deceivers who devour the greenery and fruitful fields that is representative of God's house. In other words, all those there within the congregation of God that are without the seal of God. Without the true security of the Spirit. It's the plague sent by God likened unto locusts upon the grass, to devastation and ruin.


Quote
>>>
This is what he says about it, your comments welcomed.

"Under this control of God, Satan gives command to Apollyon, and through him to all the evil spirits of the abyss, to come forth and attack evil men. We must observe carefully that his interest is not in attacking the church, rather "those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads" vs. 4.
<<<

Revelation 9:11
  • "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

Actually, Satan is not an Angel, he is a spirit the "messenger" of evil, and Apollyon (or Abaddon) is Satan, that very same spirit and king ruling over the deceived. Satan doesn't give command to Apollyon, Satan is Apollyon. That word means destruction, and that is the epitome of what he does here. He is the king or ruler of this spiritual army from the abyss, and what he brings is death to these people. This Hebrew word [abaddon] only occurs here in the New Testament and 5 times in the Old Testament (Job 26:6; 28:22; 31:12; Psalm 88:11; Prov 15:11 ) and always relates to death, which this messenger from hell/hades brings to the unfaithful congregation (those in it who are not truly sealed).

I disagree mr. Kortering that his interest is not in attacking the church, Satan's interest is absolutely in attacking the church, and in Revelation 20 when he is loosed God makes that point even more abundantly clear. It's the evil spirit Satan's "whole persona" and reason for existence. He is the absolute quintessential adversary of the church, not the world which is his domain. The world is his own, it's already his kingdom that he's not fighting against because a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The word of God encourages us to make our calling and election sure not because Satan has no interest in attacking the church, but because that is his whole character, his entire modus operandi. Satan isn't loosed to attack his own kingdom, but as judgment upon the unfaithful church, just as in the old Testament God loosed wicked empires upon Israel as judgment for their rebellions. The fact is, the judgment and apostasy comes specifically because Satan is loosed by God upon a rebellious church that will not receive His truth in the love wherewith it was given. Apostasy is a falling away of the church, not a falling away of the world. The world is already fallen.

2nd Thessalonians 2:9-11
  • "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
  • And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
  • And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
  • That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The false Christs and false prophets that come to deceive are attacking the church, and who do they deceive there? Under rule of the Apollyon, the great destroyer Satan, they bring the rebellious church to desolation by deceiving those men within it that do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:2-3
  • "And I saw another messenger ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four messengers, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
  • Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

That's the whole reason Satan was bound in the bottomless pit, so that He could not go forth deceiving the nations until after the 144,000 of Israel were all sealed (secured) with the Spirit of promise. But once the church has done its job, their testimony finished, then he is loosed as locusts upon the grass. The point being NOT until God has sealed/saved everyone that He intends to save.

 i.e., those who have not made their calling and election sure (2nd Peter 1:10). God brings this spiritual judgment of delusion upon His Temple because these are those who would not receive the love of truth (2nd Thessalonians 2:12), instead getting their pleasure from unrighteousness. The destroyer comes up against the camp of the saints, not his own camp and his own people and his own kingdom.


Quote
>>>
This does not mean that evil spirits have no interest in the church, see Revelation 12:15-17; rather the point of view of this text is the relationship of Satan to his cohorts as they attack the wicked.
<<<

Again, I disagree. There is a inconsistency here as Satan and his cohorts are the wicked and Satan and his cohorts don't go forth to attack themselves or their own soldiers. We understand that the wicked are already ruled over by Satan, they are his slaves, they are fully in bondage to him and his will they will do. Satan is not loosed to attack them, he is attacking his adversary by deceiving those in the house of God who call themselves of the Kingdom of Christ, but who lack the seal (security) of God. Thus he thinks to bring the kingdom down by infiltration. This is a battle of kingdom against Kingdom, family against family, the generation of evil against the generationof righteousness, warfare of the wicked against the camp of the saints, the house of God--not his own house.

Matthew 12:25
  • "And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:"

So again, Satan isn't attacking his own kingdom. And indeed as Christ illustrated this, the congregation of national Israel was brought to desolation b]specifically because[/b] it was a kingdom divided against and at war with itself. The election thus come out of her (the harlot church) standing far off, while those who were not sealed of the Spirit of redemption are brought to desolation within. The evil spirits were, are and always will be at war with the congregation, for that is its adversary, not its own kingdom, its own house, its own army or its own people. The interpretation presented here has Satan's army loosed to go forth to conquer a camp that he already rules over. That doesn't ring true or Biblical. He gathers together his people as an army and goes up against the camp of the saints, God's congregation.

 
Quote
>>>
This must go on for five months or for the normal period of time in which locusts would make their annual attack upon the crops, i.e., their allotted time."
<<<

It does go on for five months, but that  five months (like the thousand years) are as God defines it, His allotted time. This will probably not be five literal/physical months at all, but for as long as it takes for these wicked to spread their abominations and cause the desolation God promised the fallen star would come if it continued in its unfaithfulness as messenger of the church. However long a time that is, spiritually speaking (like the 1000 years), that is five months symbolically, a time of anguish, torment, torture and hurt for those unsealed and thus deceived. The elect are hidden, even as Zechariah's wife was hidden 5 months) in the protection of God's Holy Mountain as the torment of the Locusts is also not literal/physical but spiritual in nature. Again, the scorpion sting being cryptic imagery of the power of Satan to deceive and hurt the professing members of God's house that they serve the man of lawlessness (lawless man) rather than God. it's just a matter of Biblical reasoning in following what is written, rather than what is taught (see the first video uploaded by Puritan Heart in the "Why Use The KJV Translation" thread. Blindly following teachers (any Teachers, including me) is a very dangerous thing.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
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Chris

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Re: They Shall Be Tormented Five Months
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 08:55:49 AM »
Tony, I say again, "sir, I perceive thou art a prophet" who is truly blessed of God to preach the scriptures rationally, with integrity and  honestly. It's in rare supply these days. It is according to the true proverb, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country." These so called experts like Dr. John Walvoord and Dr. Roy B. Zuck and the like, don't really understand eschatology and Israel even 1/4th as much as you do. For all their years in seminary, they haven't figured out scripture interpret scripture. That is the real shame of it.

 


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