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Author Topic: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism  (Read 22727 times)

bloodstone

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2005, 03:59:18 AM »

This belief in a carnal, earthly or political rather than spiritual millennium, where the kingdom of God would be posited on this sin cursed earth, is the error of the ages. It's the mistake the Jews made, the mistake the Chilists made, and the mistake the premillennialists made. And Dispensationalism is just the further convoluting of an already confused doctrine.


I have to agree with you here. I said something like this in another forum and some of tyhe baptists tyhere were incensed that I would equate chilists to the Judaizers. But I believe you are right on in that.

 Titus 3:9 
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."
 1 Timothy 1:4 "
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."

Also the same distinctions between families and the tribes of Israel is seen in premil's trying to make the Jews a special people apart from Christ. Very bad theology there and very much alike. Also, do you notice they both usually have a form of works gospel?

Reformer

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2005, 11:17:35 AM »
Dispensationalism: A Return to Biblical Theology or Pseudo Christian Cult

http://web.archive.org/web/20070203002017/http://users.frii.com/gosplow/disp2.html




Pearson

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2005, 03:52:23 PM »
David Knoles and MR,

What is an easy-to-understand definition of Dispensationalism? 


Here is an condensed article that will help in understanding this doctrine:


Dispensationalism: Another Gospel

"I wonder that you are so soon removed, from him who called you to the grace of Christ, to Another Gospel" Galations 1:6


A Growing Error and Danger to the Faith
Dispensationalism is an error that has been widely spread through the modern so-called "Christian" denominations. The dangerous nature of this error and the wide acceptance of dispensationalism calls for the true Christian to inform himself of this error and guard against it.

While they may not recognize their beliefs as rooted in dispensationalism, many modern sects and religious organizations are promoting this teaching. It is characterized by:

A denial of the necessity of good works.
An anarchistic rejection of organized religion and a defined rule of life.
The belief that Israel and the Church are two different entities.
A belief in an endtime event, where the "true Christians" will disappear known as "the rapture."

Dispensationalism is very popular among the radio and televangelists, such as:

David Breese
Jerry Fallwell
Pat Robertson
Jack Van Impe
Hal Lindsey

What is Dispensationalism?
While there are many different versions of Dispensationalism, it generally proposes the work of God is divided into "dispensations" with respect to time. To quote the New Scofield Reference Bible, a Bible version whose erroneous translation promotes dispensationalism:

The purpose of each dispensation, then, is to place man under a specific rule of conduct, but such stewardship is not a condition of salvation. In every past dispensation unregenerate man has failed, and he has failed in this present dispensation and will in the future. But salvation has been and will continue to be available to him by God's grace through faith.
The dispensations that supposedly apply to our time are:

The Kingdom. This dispensation begins with Christ's public ministry and ends with either His Resurrection or Pentcost. The rule of conduct in the kingdom dispensation is defined as the "Gospel of the Kingdom."

The Church. This dispensation begins with Pentecost and ends with an event that the dispensationalists refer to as "the rapture" The rule of conduct for the church dispensation is defined as another gospel - "the gospel of grace."

The Kingdom Restored. This dispensation is a continuation of the kingdom dispensation. It begins with "the rapture" and after the second coming of Jesus Christ, he will establish an earthly kingdom, which will be eternal. Apparently, this return of the kingdom dispensation is necessary to keep the dispensationalism teachings even remotely consistent with the Sacred Scriptures.

Dispensationalism permits its adherents to interpret the writings of Paul in opposition to the commandments of Jesus Christ in the Gospels, for the Gospels only apply to the Kingdom, and the writings of Paul "the Gospel of Grace" apply to the Church. This is why when you try to discuss the Scriptures with those in the modern sects, they are either bewildered by the commandments of Jesus Christ in the Gospels or they simply dismiss them as irrelevant.

This rejection of the commandments of Jesus Christ in the Gospels as irrelevant to the church permits the dispensationalist to commit all sorts of heinous sins, yet still consider themsels good Christians.

The Origin of Dispensationalism
John Nelson Darby, educated as a lawyer and ordained Anglican priest, developed the basics of this error in the early 1830's. Dispensationalism was developed and modified throughout the 1800's several other Protestant "theologians," to include C.I. Scofield of Schofield Bible fame.

The basis for the claim of dispensationalism seems to center around a verse - II Timothy 2:15, which in the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible reads:

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
A literal translation of this verse apparently permits the dispensationalist to divide the Scriptural teachings into three dispensations:

The Scriptural Case against Dispensationalism
Paul and the other Apostles preached the Gospel of the Kingdom
After Pentecost, the Apostles went forth to preach, and they preached the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Philip preached the gospel of the Kingdom (and baptized).

But when they had believed Philip preaching of the kingdom of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. (Acts 8:12)
And also Paul and Barnabas:

[Paul and Barnabas] Confirming the souls of the disciples and exhorting them to continue in the faith: and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God. (Acts 14:21)
Paul preaches the kingdom of God.

And entering into the synagogue, he [Paul] spoke boldly for the space of three months, disputing and exhorting concerning the kingdom of God.
And now behold, I [Paul] know that all you, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. (Acts 20:25)

The Church Existed before the Resurrection
The Church was established as a regulating and teaching body in the Gospels before the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The church was established with Peter as its head and teacher in matters of faith.

Theresa K

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2005, 01:29:34 PM »
GoldRush wrote  "Whatever Gospel is proclaimed, must accord with the entire Holy Scriptures. . .else it is not a true gospel or legitimate belief unto salvation at all."


The gospel is simply believing on the One who was sent.  Calvinism is not the gospel.  Yes, there may be some true points in Calvinism, but it itself is not the gospel.  We cannot condemn those who do not adhere to Calvinism.  Just because someone believes they were saved the minute they "accepted Jesus into their heart"  does not mean they aren't saved.  Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved, Calvinist or otherwise.



Pearson wrote that Judaism is a man-made religion.  Rabbinical Judaism certainly is a product of man, but Judaism is of God.  God never revealed Himself to an already-existing Jewish culture;  rather, He revealed the Jewish culture to Abraham, and especially (in greater detail) to Moses.  God is the creator of Judaism. 
Theresa  :)


Dave Taylor

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2005, 03:21:37 PM »
Quote
Rabbinical Judaism certainly is a product of man, but Judaism is of God...He revealed the Jewish culture to Abraham, and especially (in greater detail) to Moses.  God is the creator of Judaism. .

Your comments above do not align with the Bible Theresa....perhaps you will consider the following scriptures and reconsider your stance.

Any belief or religion that deny's Jesus Christ His eternally divine glory; is not of God; nor was created by God. 


John 12:48
"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. "

Mark 8:38
"Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. "

Mark 16:16
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:18
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "

John 8:24
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. "

I John 2:22
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning."

I John 5:10
"He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. "

I John 5:12
"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. "




Real simple Theresa.....If Judaism were of God; it would accept and believe in Jesus Christ as being God's Holy Son.  It cannot deny, reject, and be ashamed of Jesus Christ; and still be of God.....at least based on what the Word of God itself tells us above.


Theresa K

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2005, 02:55:29 PM »
Dave Taylor wrote:    Your comments above do not align with the Bible Theresa....perhaps you will consider the following scriptures and reconsider your stance.

Any belief or religion that deny's Jesus Christ His eternally divine glory; is not of God; nor was created by God.  "]






Jesus quoted from the Law.  He said that he did not come to abolish to Law.  If the Law - which is the center-piece of Judaism, was not from God, then Jesus would have never upheld it.   The Law does not deny the reality of Christ - it leads people TO Christ, not AWAY from Him!


Romans 3:21
 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
 


The Law and the Prophets - Judaism - testified about the righteousness found only in Christ!   Of course Judaism is from God!   Saying Judaism is not from God is like saying the Law was a creation of man, and it certainly isn't!  It is the creation of God!  Rabbinical Judaism - that is certainly of man, but not Judaism.   I'm astonished that some would say that Judaism, a creation of God, denies Christ!   Judaism is a foreshadowing of Christ!  Look at the passover feast - one can see the Christ in that feast.




Isaiah 66:22
   "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD , "so will your name and descendants endure.  From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD .  "

Theresa K   :)

Baerchild

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2005, 08:20:29 PM »
Theresa,

What does this verse mean to you...how do you understand it, especially "Israel of God"?

Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


Jim

Theresa K

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2005, 10:03:11 AM »
Theresa,

What does this verse mean to you...how do you understand it, especially "Israel of God"?

Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.


Jim




Israel of God is the Israelites who would be saved, I presume.   I suppose the Garner-Ted people would say it is referring to Britian and America.  I think the most simplist answer is the true one:  God said once in the book of Jeremiah that He would never reject all the decendants of Israel.  The Israel of God may be the remnant.
Theresa   :)

Dave Taylor

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2005, 10:54:37 AM »
Quote
the most simplist answer is the true one:  God said once in the book of Jeremiah that He would never reject all the decendants of Israel.

Sounds like Heaven needs to get out the hall passes; and make sure they get distrubuted to 'all' of Jacob's descendents then:

  • Herod the Great
  • Herod Agrippa
  • Judas Iscariot
  • Caiaphas
  • Barabbas
  • Rehoboam
  • Ahab
  • Jezebel
  • Ahaziah
  • Omri
  • Saul
  • Ananias
  • ...and alll the other wicked, evil descendants of Jacob
They all get to go to Heaven!   Israeli-Universalism at its finest!

Let's punt the NT then, and let all the wicked in (if their pedigree papers are in order). 

Jesus died for nothing; and no matter of unrighteousness and wickedry should prevent anyone of proper bloodline from getting into Heaven, right?

I suppose these passages, and dozens like them should be stricken from the NT.....for they don't account for pedigree and blood-line 'exceptions'


Luke 12:8
"Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. "

John 12:44
"Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.  And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.  I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. "

I John 2:23
"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father"

I John 5:11
"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."


Come on Theresa; it is a faith thing; it always has been; it always will be....it isn't a pedigree; there aren't racial divides and subsets; there are those who belong to God and are His children by faith; regardless of race; and those who reject and deny Him; again regardless of race.

Spend a few minutes reading Ephesians, Galatians, I John, and Hebrews....they all explain it quite well.

Theresa K

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2005, 02:37:59 PM »
I agree totally..it isn't about pedigree, but about the remnant of Israel - the chosen Jews that will make up His church.  They are of one sheep fold, and we are of another.   



Jeremiah 31:37
This is what the LORD says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD .



God will save many when Jesus returns.  On that day, there will be no night.  There will be no cold.  It will be a very unique day.  They shall weep when they see the Lord, but He will pour out on them a Spirit of grace and supplication.  People will be considered young at 100 years of age; anyone who dies at 100 will be considered as accursed.
Theresa K   :)

Dave Taylor

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2005, 06:09:41 PM »
Theresa wrote:
Quote
I agree totally..it isn't about pedigree, but about the remnant of Israel - the chosen Jews that will make up His church.  They are of one sheep fold, and we are of another.   

(bold-underline added for inflection)

No Theresa.  That dispensational idea you present above is flat wrong!

THERE IS ONLY ONE SHEEP FOLD; not two.

Listen to God, as He makes this undeniably clear.


John 10:14
"I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. "


Jesus tells us there is one fold; not two.

It contains His sheep; both those who belonged to Him presently; and those future sheep who would later come in.  No racial boundaries.
No Israeli remnant sub-sheep group at all.

One fold that consists of Jews and Gentiles living at that time; and throughout time following.


Baerchild

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2005, 07:13:12 PM »

The Israel of God may be the remnant.

Theresa,

Yes, you're on the right track.

The Word teaches that The Promise was not given to a Jew, so why should we expect God to save the Jews, or any other special or distinct group?  Abraham was not a Jew...he knew nothing about the Ten Commandments and Judiasm. 

Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Jim

Theresa K

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2005, 04:28:09 PM »


Hi Baerchild, you said, "Abraham was not a Jew"


Well...God did say, of Abraham, that he kept all of his laws and decrees.  From Genesis 26

4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring  all nations on earth will be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."



Being a Jew is one who obeys God, and who is circumcised in heart.  That is Abraham.
Theresa

Theresa K

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2005, 04:31:23 PM »
Dave, regarding the two sheep folds:  we are one in Christ, but before Christ, there were two sheep folds.  That is what I meant.   I think that the Jews left at Christ's coming are a part of the remnant that his pre-destinated for salvation.
Theresa K     :)

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Re: The Bible Versus Dispensationalism
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2005, 04:56:50 PM »
Theresa wrote:
Quote
Dave, regarding the two sheep folds:  we are one in Christ, but before Christ, there were two sheep folds.  That is what I meant.   I think that the Jews left at Christ's coming are a part of the remnant that his pre-destinated for salvation.

No Theresa...there were not two sheepfold's before Christ.

There has always and only been one....You can see its membership described and continued in Hebrews chapter 12.

Those before Christ and those after Christ all takeup residience in one fold; Christ's.

They had His Spirit within them.
They drank from His Rock in the wilderness.
They preferred His riches over the riches of Egypt.

Abel (a gentile), Noah (a gentile), Abraham (a gentile), Rahab (a gentile), Ruth (a gentile), Isaac (a gentile), Moses, Daniel, Isaiah, John the Baptist, Stephen, Timothy, Cornelieus, Luke, and all the faithful throughout human history who belong to the redeemed and not the damned; are apart of Christ's sheepfold.

Once you realize this is what the NT teaches; then you will be free of Dispensatanalism.
Once you realize that the only distinction is sin/lost verses redeemed/saved then you will be free of Dispensatanalism.

Look to the family of God; His sheepfold; comprised of the faithful from all tongues, tribes and nations; throughtout all time! (Eph 2, Rev 7, Rev 21)

Re-read Matthew 25:31-46 and see that there is a group of the lost; cast into the fires; and a group of the elect; united with Christ and welcomed into His Kingdom.

Once you come face-to-face with this understanding; you will be able to finally be free of Dispensationalism.

 


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