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author=Robert Powell link=topic=3414.msg40840#msg40840 date=1545611049]
Jesus Christ Fully Man Fully God
1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 29 helpful votes   
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

I would have spent time commenting on all your reply, but most of the scriptures you posted, teach against your own doctrine. I will just go with your first verse you use to promote the ancient religious doctrine that God came to earth as "Fully God".

There is one God. As Jesus taught.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And this one God gave the Man Jesus all His Power. Jesus didn't give Himself this Power as you preach He was Fully God and Fully man. He says His Power came from His Father in Heaven, not on earth.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Just as the verse you posted. God the Son became a man and when He was found as a man, He humbled Himself to His Father.

Phil. 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Fully God became a man, He didn't come to earth as Fully God, He came in the Flesh.

9 Wherefore (Because He became obedient) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

He became the Mediator between God the Father who is in heaven, and all mankind. He accomplished this as "Fully Man", not as "Fully God".

So we have God the Father and God the Son who became a mortal man who humbled Himself to His Father and became obedient unto death. For this reason, God the Father gave His Son, who became mortal man, immortality. Just as Jesus said.

"2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."

The wide spread ancient religious tradition that Jesus came to earth as "Fully God" and that He received His Power from His own immortal existence, that He never really became a mortal man, is popular no doubt and has been a foundation of the religions of the land ever since the advent of the Catholic Church. But as the verse you posted clearly says.

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and Man, and that is the Man Jesus, who "BECAUSE" of His faith in His Father, was given great Glory and a Title and Name above all names.. He became the First "Fully Human" to enter God's Kingdom, thus the name "Firstfruit".

God the Son, the God of Abraham, came to earth as mortal man, He laid down His Life for us, humbled Himself to God the Father and for this reason was given Power over ALL FLESH, including His Own.

The preaching that God came to earth as "Fully God" can not be supported using all of God's Words.

Heb. 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

He was not Fully God, He trusted "fully God", He prayed to "Fully God", and ":Fully God" Heard Him. But in the days of His Flesh, there was Jesus the Man, and God the Father.

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And even though He were God the Son, who created all things, yet God the Father sent Him to earth, not as "Fully God" as you and "many" who come in Christ's Name preach, but as "Fully Man", in all things unto His Brethren.

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Fully God is already perfect, but God the Son didn't come to earth as "Fully God", He came as "Fully Man". So like His Brethren, He was "MADE" Perfect by the things He suffered. And He "Became" the Author, and Mediator between God the Father, the only "True God" as Jesus described in John 17, and mankind.

ALL the Scriptures you posted confirm these truths and actually condemn the popular teaching in the religions of the land that Jesus wasn't a mortal man, rather, He came to earth as "Fully God".

Moses knew Jesus was a mortal man.

Duet. 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Isaiah knew God became mortal man.

Is. 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Peter knew by what Power Jesus was raised from the Dead.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

 Paul knew whose Power raised up the Man Jesus from the dead.

Rom. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Eph. 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

So then by preaching against these scriptures and spreading the religious doctrine that Jesus didn't overcome sin and temptations by relying on His Father, and Humbling Himself to His Father, but because He was Fully God, you are eliminating His Great Faith. Ridiculing His Great Achievement and Sacrifice by preaching He didn't risk anything for His brethren. That the temptations He endured was a fraud because "Fully God" can not be tempted. That His Death as a show, Hollywood, because "Fully God" can't die. We are warned about this.

1 John 4: 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I mean no disrespect to you personally. We are all influenced by the religions of the land, just like Abraham was, and Jesus Himself. This is why Jesus said: "Man, (including Him as His Life showed) shall Live By Every Word of God".

I would implore you to not just believe every religious tradition we are born into, but to do the study yourself, not to prove a religious doctrine, but to prove what the Word of God says about things.

Theology / Re: What is Pauline Theology
« Last post by Reformer on Today at 09:45:42 AM »
Got Questions - What Is Pauline Theology

There is no such thing as a separate "Pauline Christianity". I so wish Christian writers would stop promoting this idea because it's just not true. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence for it. That is to say, besides these writers writing about it. "Pauline Christianity" is like "Calvinist Christianity" in that neither exists except in those who write about it. There is only Christianity. Bad Christianity is not Christianity, it's some group masquerading as Christianity. False Christianity. We don't have to turn Christianity into sects. Just identify what is false Christianity. "Pauline Christianity" is not Christianity. "Jesus is Not God" Christianity is not Christianity. "Name it and Claim it" Christianity is not Christianity.  A tree is known by its fruits.


To be honest, I believe anyone who thinks that Trump is a good man, a good President, good for this country, a good leader, a thinker, a man who stands with Christians, a man with a moral compass, or a man concerned about anything besides his riches, narcissism, ego, and the perceived size of his cult following, are without the smallest particle of Godly wisdom. I truly believe that. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Thatís very bold. But very wrong.

Says You. You haven't been right yet. Of course you'd say that. I expect that from someone who thinks Donald Trump is a greater President than Abraham Lincoln  ::) I expected nothing less.

Correct me if Iím wrong, but itís seems youíre implying that anyone who supports Trump isnít a Christian?

I think you know I'm not a man who minces words. I say exactly what I mean and I mean exactly what I say. So in case you didn't read what I said, I'll say it again in quotes.

"To be honest, I believe anyone who thinks that Trump is a good man, a good President, good for this country, a good leader, a thinker, a man who stands with Christians, a man with a moral compass, or a man concerned about anything besides his riches, narcissism, ego, and the perceived size of his cult following, are without the smallest particle of Godly wisdom. I truly believe that."

I hope that is clear enough for you. It would be like the Apostle Paul ranting and raving in support of Nero Claudius Caesar. That would make him void of any Godly wisdom. Instead he points out that civil government is ordained by God for society's protection.

ďLet every soul be in subjection to the higher powersĒ (13:1).

He doesn't say he's great for the country, he's greater than the former leaders or that David was a mass murderer because he was a leader who sent his people to war. He knew Caesar was wicked, a deceiver and ungodly leader, and if he thought anything less that would make him dense.

Iím a Christian that believes Trump is good for this country compared to the last 4-5 Presidents.

Good for you. Or maybe not so good depending upon your outlook on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Iím a Christian that believes Trump is bad for this country compared to the last 4-5 Presidents. I believe Trump has tapped into the spiritual insanity that is nothing more than tribalism spawned by the emotional carnality of man. You know, the old "It's those people's fault over there" that Hitler perfected in his march to power.

So if you say you're a Christian that believes Trump is good for this country, that's your right. As is my right to say I believe any Christian that believes Trump is good for this country, has no Godly wisdom at all.  You're demonstrating the same lack of wisdom that said Abraham Lincoln was a terrible leader that was worse than Trump because he killed thousands by sending them to fight in the civil war. Which is silly logic and no wisdom at all.   IMHO.

Im saved solely by Christís blood, not my political views!

Indeed. Nevertheless.

 Lu 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

This is also true. In other what you love, your works, your life, your actions, your thinking, and your beliefs also reveal who you are more than simply saying who you are.  The Pope, Jim Baker, Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones, all say they are saved solely by Christís blood. In the end, what does that mean for them? Nothing. Why? Because a tree is known by its fruits, evil doesn't beget good, good doesn't follow after wickedness, and a house divided cannot stand.

So how about this. You believe what you want, and I will believe that no man of the toxic, despicable, disgraceful, noxious ilk, injustice and behavior of Donald Trump is good for this country. And yes, if you think what is going on in this country right now is good for America, I think you are without the smallest particle of Godly wisdom. I truly believe that. Because it's been a total breakdown of government, Godly law, order, reasoning, civility and grace.

Theology / Re: The Woman with the Alabaster Box
« Last post by ZeroCool on Today at 04:47:07 AM »

Interesting, I'll have to give this some thought. Thanks for bringing it up.
Theology / Re: Various Off Topic Discussions
« Last post by ZeroCool on Today at 04:44:09 AM »
Yada, Yada, yada, and he called God Father and was like his brethren, yada, yada, yada.

So can I assume you can't answer my question, or just that you won't?

You are wasting your time attempting to get that guy to answer a simple question because he clearly cannot answer it without confessing that Jesus was God because he doesn't lie. He said before Abraham was, I am because he was that God he claimed to be. I don't understand why so many here think they can talk this guy into truth. Some people you just can't reason with. You've all made your very sound points, he thinks you're all religious nuts, so shake the dust off your shoes and move on. Why sit here day after day casting pearls. The disciples never did that.

Just my two cents.

Agreed!  )GoodPopst(
Interesting subject. They are definitely more modest than Christian women, but I would have to agree that it has to do with their upbringing, not that they are inherently more moral. Western women are raised to think that a low cut blouse, tight pants tight skirt or shorts are not immodest. I think they are but I think I would be in the minority.
Trump is "seriously" talking about disbanding the FBI and aquatic is talking about the United States being a Terrorist state, Abraham Lincoln being a mass murderer and Trump being the greatest President in the last five. Who can take people like this seriously when they speak? Whenever he talks about religion, I'm going to ask myself, how can I take him seriously? As a Christian, this is the kind of thing that makes you throw your hands up and say no wonder people don't take Christianity seriously. Too many hypocrites and wild-eyed political zealots.
Iím a Christian that believes Trump is good for this country compared to the last 4-5 Presidents.

Good for this country? How is hate and division good for this country, and there has been nothing but that since he took office. To compare him favorable to Abraham Lincoln is a joke. I won't even comment on that because it's so dumb no one believes it anyway. I'd say he is singlehandedly destroying nonpartisan civil politics, taking down free press and constitutional law, and wrecking this country, civility, democracy, law, and order. He mocks the truth and you think he's great for the country? You talk about civil war, what has this man brought to this country but civil war since he took office? As for the last five Presidents.

Barrack Obama (2009Ė2017)
George W. Bush (2001Ė2009)
Bill Clinton (1993Ė2001)
George H. W. Bush (1989Ė1993)
Ronald Reagan (1981Ė1989)

I'd say you are dead wrong. But that's just me.
Theology / Re: Various Off Topic Discussions
« Last post by Erik Diamond on Yesterday at 09:26:59 PM »
Agreed Mark.

I will not waste my time with Studyman. Many of us, including Tony Warren, have offered strong rebuttal against Studyman.  Like savedbysovereigngrace99, he will not accept corrections by playing martyr complex and kept repeating his "Christ became a mortal man, that is a "man" in all things as His Brethren" theme. 

I am done with this subject and moved on.
Theology / Re: The Woman with the Alabaster Box
« Last post by Mark on Yesterday at 09:06:33 PM »
I was reading recently an article on this site regarding OP's topic of the Woman with the Alabaster box. See link below for your persusal.


I have found the story had some good points and due to the nature of the the Woman with the spinkenard being in all four gospels it was a great privilege to compare scripture with scripture. My take on it is there were 2 women not 3 from the article. I would like to go through each passage recorded in scripture( apololgies for the length of post).

First the woman who was a sinner recorded in Luke's gospel at Simon the Pharisee's house (located in the region of Galilee, see Luk 7:11).

Luk 7:26-50

36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.

37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Matthew and Mark have the same account at Bethany at Simon the Lepers home.

Mat 26:2-13

Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

3 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,

4 And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him.

5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.

6 Now when Jesus was in Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper,

7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?

9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.

11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

12 For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial.

13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Mar 14:1=9

1After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.

3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.

4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?

5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.

6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble ye her? she hath wrought a good work on me.

7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

8 She hath done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.

9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

Finally we have the account of Mary, Lazurus's sister anointing the feet of Jesus at Bethany.

John 12:1-8

1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

2 There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him.

3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,

5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?

6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

7 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this.

8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

The article says this was the third woman due to John 12:1 mentioning six days before the passover and not two days like in Matthew and Mark. But could it just as easily mean Jesus arrived at Bethany six days before the passover and during his time there Martha and Mary made him a supper (albeit at Simon the leper's house). The response from the disciples in Matthew and Mark and Judas in John are the same, namely the waste of the ointment and Jesus reply saying the poor always they have with them but not him. Also in Mark and John the value of the ointment being 300 pence is recorded.

What do you guys think, only one woman in all the gospels, two or even three as the linked article states?

God bless


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