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Author Topic: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?  (Read 33350 times)

cindyw

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2004, 11:56:39 PM »
I don't see a contradiction.

There is absolutely no sanction for gay marriage.

There is sanction for union between male and female.


There is no sanction for a believer being joined to an unbeliever either.    There are explicit commands NOT to join oneself to a person who is wicked/in darkness.   You are applying scripture in a contradictory manner-----rejecting one sin, yet joining into the company of another sin.   In the first case, the homosexual couple probably both are unbelievers----they are just doing what their sinful nature is leading them to do.    In the case of a believer marrying an unbeliever, the believer KNOWS better and is in a state of rebellion.   The unbelievers have an excuse.   Believers do not.  Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Scot

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2004, 01:32:48 AM »
Cindy,

You are not the "poor dear" here. We know who is. These arguements against your conviction and more importantly against God's word, are the reasons why the church is in the state that it is. We can plainly see what happened to Old Testament Israel when they started to take the heathen of the land in marriage. God very plainly forbid them to do it, yet I can imagine them kind of "brushing it off" sort of like these people that are telling you that you're wrong.

I believe that you truly love your sister because you care enough to let her know the truth. This is what she needs to hear and see. God most certainly can turn this situation around for good and make this a good marriage. However, that does not excuse the sin. We do not know God's plan but we do know what he commands us in scripture.

Attending this marriage would, in fact, be giving your blessing to sin. Just because you do not attend the ceremony does not mean that you are abandoning your sister. Be sure that she knows that you will always be there for her whenever she needs you but that you cannot condone her sin by attending the wedding.

I'm glad you see sin as God sees it. I'm very sick of people calling themselves christians and then ignoring sin like it's no big deal. The "I'm o.k., you're o.k., sin is no big deal" attitude is everywhere. Ignore this Robert Schuller type humanistic theology and stay with God's word.

In Christ,
Scot

judykanova

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2004, 03:00:27 AM »
Quote
Judy,
   I think we all pretty much expected jd@ to say he'd go to the wedding because he's pretty much unbiblical in everything he says, but I must say that I was surprised to hear you waver on this, having read many of your posts. I don't understand how you could know that this marriage was against God's law, but still strongly imply that you don't know if you wouldn't attend it anyway. Doesn't that seem a little hypocritical? I would never attend something God said was unbiblical. Or maybe I'm reading more into your comment than is warrented? I only reply because it struck me very odd that you would say that you didn't know if you would go or not.

Hi Coleen,

For me, there are two issues.... One is quite clear-cut regarding what the Lord said about not being 'unequally yoked' with an unbeliever.  My post was in response to Carmel's (continued) attempts to misapply Scripture and ignore the fact that for a believer to willfully and knowing marry an unbeliever in an act of sin.
 

The other issue of whether or not I would attend the wedding of a close relative who is marrying a non-believer is not as clear-cut and may be based on what one can do 'in good conscience'.   While Cyndy cannot attend 'in good conscience', it sounds like Beauty4ashes can, and I respect what each has had to say.

If you've made your concerns and disapproval clearly known, then would your attendence at the wedding be any more significant than going to their home the next day for dinner?  For me personally, THIS is what would make me feel like a hypocrite, for they would be in no less sin than the day before.

I'm just being honest, haven't fully sorted it out, and I may very well be wrong.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

beauty4ashes

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2004, 07:53:42 AM »
Well I have to say after thinking about it if someone's convictions are so strong that they cant go to battle in a wedding then they should stay away.

There is the contardiction...so convicted they can't go to a wedding yet not convicted enough to shake the dust off when they are living in sin and not married...

duh?


Colleen

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2004, 09:29:48 AM »
Hi Coleen,

For me, there are two issues.... One is quite clear-cut regarding what the Lord said about not being 'unequally yoked' with an unbeliever.

If you've made your concerns and disapproval clearly known, then would your attendence at the wedding be any more significant than going to their home the next day for dinner?

I'm just being honest, haven't fully sorted it out, and I may very well be wrong.

judy

I appreciate your honesty in this. I only wish some other participants here would be as honest instaed of egotistical and prideful.

My problem with your stance can be summed up in your quote.

"If you've made your concerns and disapproval clearly known, then would your attendence at the wedding be any more significant than going to their home the next day for dinner? "

There is a very clear difference. Your sister having dinner is not a sinful act and so it would be entirely appropriate for you to join her in that act. But your sister marrying an unbeliever is a sinful act, and so it would not be appropriate for you to join her in that activity. This is where I was surprised to hear you say that you might join her anyway.

We all love our family and witness to them at every opportunity but this is different from participating in their sinful actions. Jesus ate with criminals, but he didn't join them when they were our committing crimes. There is a very big difference I think. Anyway, thanks for your humble reply and I want you to know this is not a condemnation of you, it's just a comment on what I believe scripture teaches.

Colleen

cindyw

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2004, 09:57:55 AM »
Thanks for the encouraging post Scot........ :)  Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Reformer

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2004, 11:09:34 AM »

I appreciate your honesty in this. I only wish some other participants here would be as honest instaed of egotistical and prideful.


Can I get an Amen from the church! :amen:

 And yet we've come to expect that open-mindedness from Judy. Disagreement, and yet with an open mind to hear if anyone comes with scripture and sound reasoning. Unlike others, she has earned my respect here over a period of time for being strong in her conviction, and yet being open minded. A great example for all christians.


Quote
My problem with your stance can be summed up in your quote.

"If you've made your concerns and disapproval clearly known, then would your attendence at the wedding be any more significant than going to their home the next day for dinner? "

There is a very clear difference. Your sister having dinner is not a sinful act and so it would be entirely appropriate for you to join her in that act. But your sister marrying an unbeliever is a sinful act, and so it would not be appropriate for you to join her in that activity.

 Matthew 19:6
  "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

Very well put Colleen. It's very different. A marriage is a covenant ceremony before God. So when we attend a wedding such as this, we are giving our blessing to an sinful union by our presence there as a witness before God. That is very different from visiting our sister for dinner.

On another topic, I agree with Scot wholeheartily when he says that these arguements against against God's word are the reasons why the church is in the state that it is. There are always a liberal minded group of christians finding reasons to compromise one thing or another, and it always brings deterrioration to the church. But we have to stand fast and hold to these truths of the gospel.

 2 Thessalonians 2:15-17
  "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work."

In our heart we know that God's word cannot be compromised for the sake of family or friends, and that is true love of God.

Reformer

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2004, 11:18:23 AM »
Cindy,

You are not the "poor dear" here. We know who is. These arguements against your conviction and more importantly against God's word, are the reasons why the church is in the state that it is. We can plainly see what happened to Old Testament Israel when they started to take the heathen of the land in marriage. God very plainly forbid them to do it, yet I can imagine them kind of "brushing it off" sort of like these people that are telling you that you're wrong.

Amen Scot,
  And that comment about Cindy being a "poor dear" was very condecending, but typical of the type argument ignoring God's word, that we've become acustomed to in the world.

 Matthew 5:3
  "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

If humility before God's word is being a "poor dear," then we all should join Cindy in becoming poor dears. Personally, I think it's the only way we become rich. God Bless the few people like Cindy still left in the world.


Carmel

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2004, 04:47:53 PM »

 
 There was an african man who came to Christ and he had 12 wives. The preacher was going to correct him about this and the Lord Jesus pulled him up and told him to leave them alone.

 Most of you would have stood on your own small understanding of the bible message and would have disobeyed God.

 I do not think that you really understand Jesus very well at all, because you do not know the difference between the unbeliever of 2 cor.6 and the one has not come to know Jesus christ personally as yet.

 You readers have had sufficient time to consider the matter but you stick stubbonly to your own opinion of what the scriptures teach like some in Jesus own time on earth did.

 I am not trying to insult you but the facts can not be told any other way.

 A marriage before God would require certain things of the participants but you condemn them before they even get that far and Cindys leaving out any discription of the mans character or spiritual condition from the discussion other than that he is an unbeliever and that he is one who fits the description of 2 Cor.6 shows that she is not much interested in anyones wellbeing with God but only her doctrinal beliefs concerning which she had all ready made up her mind about and is only garneshing support for her own heart, which is i believe not fully supported by the Lord in her position.

 I do not think that most of you have read what I did say about it carefully either and I regard that is being irresponsable, and the amount of time that Cindy took to reply to one of my posts shows that.

 I did not respond to the subject because of any personal reasons between myself and Cindy but because of the unforgiveness that I have seen exhibited by Christians toward their brothers and sisters when involving marriages or divorces.

 Wheresas God is willing that people should make things right with Him after they have sinned against Him, so that it may be as though they never sinned, Gods own children do nothing but condemn them forever and tell them that there is no way out for them because "the bible says" based on their very shallow reading of scripture.

 The JW's attitude toward blood transfusions is very similar to that of some of the posters on this subject.

 Now what about reading carefully 2 Cor.6 and 1 Cor.7 and see who it is in the OT to which the words of 2 Cor.ch.6 really apply, and consider that many Christians have children who do not believe and that there seems no demand from people who hold the stance that Cindy does to separate themselves from them as 2 Cor.ch 6 demands if that was really what it is talking about.

 One mentioned the "commandment" of God in relation to 1 Cor.7 but read the chapter again.

 Cindy also mentioned the OT law concerning priests but then disregarded the OT law which states that they who lay together should marry and not be divorced all of their life.

 I would not have said much either except some are likening my stance, well the stance that they think I am taking, as being that of a law breaker and when I read that Cindys stance is that marriage before God would be just a continuation of their sin then I realised that she does not understand the position of people in the bible like Samson, Uriah, or Ruth and many others and ignore the fact that Solomon himself did what he did and according to Eccl found his way back and it is most likely that many of his wives went with him.

 People have to decide whether God joins Islamic couples together or whether He does not.

 Also that if an unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife, then how could that occur if 2 Cor. ch 6 applied to every unbeliever where it is said that one should separate from them. Obviously 2 Cor. 6 does not apply, so it only comes down to 1 Cor.7 where it has to be decided just what marrying anyone they wish, only in the Lord means and whether it is Pauls advise (which I agree with) or a commandment of the Lord.

 Anyway I pray about these things when they involve myself somewhere because the making of a law to apply to everyone regardless of circumstances or spiritual situation of peoples is not wise and Jesus did not go about doing that Himself, He just did what God said and said what God said and left the rest of things to Him.

 It is so easy for people to pass judgment on others when they think that their own situation is so upright safe and secure.

So if anyone would like to make any more derogatory statements concerning what they think my position is, then go ahead but the same judgment that you pass on mine will be the same by which any of your positions will be judged.

 Truth is not really what a lot of people think it is.

Carmel.



   

 

 

 

cindyw

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2004, 08:07:50 PM »
You readers have had sufficient time to consider the matter but you stick stubbonly to your own opinion of what the scriptures teach like some in Jesus own time on earth did.

Cindys leaving out any discription of the mans character or spiritual condition from the discussion other than that he is an unbeliever

she had all ready made up her mind about and is only garneshing support for her own heart, which is i believe not fully supported by the Lord in her position.

the unforgiveness that I have seen exhibited by Christians toward their brothers and sisters when involving marriages or divorces.

Wheresas God is willing that people should make things right with Him after they have sinned against Him, so that it may be as though they never sinned, Gods own children do nothing but condemn them forever and tell them that there is no way out for them because "the bible says" based on their very shallow reading of scripture.

Cindy also mentioned the OT law concerning priests but then disregarded the OT law which states that they who lay together should marry and not be divorced all of their life.

Cindys stance is that marriage before God would be just a continuation of their sin then I realised that she does not understand the position of people in the bible like Samson, Uriah, or Ruth and many others and ignore the fact that Solomon himself did what he did and according to Eccl found his way back and it is most likely that many of his wives went with him.

 it only comes down to 1 Cor.7 where it has to be decided just what marrying anyone they wish, only in the Lord means and whether it is Pauls advise (which I agree with) or a commandment of the Lord.

Truth is not really what a lot of people think it is.

Carmel. 

The weight of evidence is on the side of disallowing believer/unbeliever marriages.  Alot of Pastors wont marry people who are unequally yoked.   They too know the scriptures and honor God's Word by not performing what the Lord forbids.   I Cor. 7:39 wasn't spoken as Paul's "advice", it was spoken as a command of the Lord..........II Cor. 6:14 gives another witness to Paul's teaching on marriage in I Cor. 7.

As to the husband to be's character, what does that matter in the scope of this discussion?   Jesus never uses that type of thinking in His teachings and neither does Paul.   The fact is this man is spritually dead, if he is an unbeliever.   He could be the nicest guy, which I've heard he is, but that doesn't negate what the scriptures teach-----There is NO fellowship between those who are spiritually alive and those who are spiritually dead.........and there is no guarantee that the spiritually dead will EVER have eternal life through Christ.

As for garnering support, it is not to support my heart, it is to find what the Word of God teaches to support right actions/decisions.   I don't care what "man" thinks, I want to know/understand what the Lord thinks and how HE sees things.  It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that you have a problem with my divorce/remarriage stance and that has overflowed into this particular discussion..........I don't know why else you would have made some of the catty comments you made to me unless there was some animosity towards me from past discussions.   

I am completely for restoration in Christ for those who fall----which is ALL of us since we all sin and fall short.    I believe repentance is the vehicle to restore our relationship/intimacy with the Lord and communion with the Body of Christ (other believers).   I also believe true repentance means the leaving of the sin, not just confessing you know it's sin and continuing on in it anyways.   I don't believe in "no way out".   God ALWAYS gives a way out.   What I do believe is that repentance of certain sins is not desired by the guilty---therefore they think there is no way out while still being able to stay in their sin.   

Scripture teaches living with another is sin (fornication).   Since this man is an unbeliever, that marriage would be adding sin upon sin.   It is not rectifying the sin of fornication.   It is further offending a Holy God---one who died on the cross to set us free from sin.   He did not die so that we could willfully/rebelliously continue in sin.   That is what Paul called using grace so that sin may abound and that mindset is reprehensible.........and it doesn't make one a "legalist" to acknowledge this.   Many of us have been bought from great sin and we look on our salvation and the salvation provided to others with great reverence and thankfulness.

As to the OT examples, many are examples of what not to do when one wants to follow the Lord.   That is how I look at much of the OT----it is a book of examples-----good and bad.   There are examples of people who at times are sold out to the Lord----suffering much in the process.   There are also examples of people getting into sin and reaping lifelong trouble due to their choice/choices.    What I also learn when I study the OT is the never changing attributes of God.   His expectations never change, His nature never changes, His love never changes, His hatred of sin never changes.   However, what I don't do is take OT JEWISH law and apply it to myself or others under the New Covenant.   Every teaching we need in order to live out a spirit led life is found in the teachings of Jesus and the other apostles.    The reason I did mention Ezra 9-10 was to show how God hated the intermingling of His people with the heathen----a concept taken right through into NT teachings.    It shows the consistant heart of God concerning His disapproval of mixing His "seed" with the "children of disobedience".

Carmel, I know I can't persuade you to see things how I do or vice versa.   Even so, I don't think this should ever become a "personal" issue.   It's important to me to keep this as scripturally focused as possible and I would hope you would agree.   Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Drew

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2004, 08:35:44 PM »
Judy,
   I think we all pretty much expected jd@ to say he'd go to the wedding because he's pretty much unbiblical in everything he says, but I must say that I was surprised to hear you waver on this, having read many of your posts. I don't understand how you could know that this marriage was against God's law, but still strongly imply that you don't know if you wouldn't attend it anyway. Doesn't that seem a little hypocritical?


Of course it's hypocritical. Anyone can see that. But no one wants to say it out loud because it's judy. Everyone's now going to rip me for saying this. You talk about respect, at least I'm consistent, not trying to straddle the line. I say that marriage to an unbeliever is not a sin, therefore I am free to go to the wedding. At least I'm consistent. She's effectively saying it's a sin, but so what I'm going anyway, and you all talk about respect for that even though you know it's hypocrisy? Come on guys, be fair to everyone, not just the chosen few. If jd@ had said something inconsistent like that, you'd be all over him. Let's not forget scripture. What's that someone says about inconsistency.

 Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;


Carmel

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2004, 11:39:26 PM »
Cindy,

       
Quote
The weight of evidence is on the side of disallowing believer/unbeliever marriages.  Alot of Pastors wont marry people who are unequally yoked.   They too know the scriptures and honor God's Word by not performing what the Lord forbids.   I Cor. 7:39 wasn't spoken as Paul's "advice", it was spoken as a command of the Lord..........II Cor. 6:14 gives another witness to Paul's teaching on marriage in I Cor. 7.


 No, the 2 Cor.6 passage does not refer to marriage between a believer and unbeliever.

 (2 Cor 6:16-18)  And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." {17} Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you." {18} "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty."

 It refers to---

 (Num 25:1-5)  Now Israel remained in Acacia Grove, and the people began to commit harlotry with the women of Moab. {2} They invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods. {3} So Israel was joined to Baal of Peor, and the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel. {4} Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of the people and hang the offenders before the LORD, out in the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may turn away from Israel." {5} So Moses said to the judges of Israel, "Every one of you kill his men who were joined to Baal of Peor."

 Joining in marriage does not mean that the believer will bow down to the unbelievers Gods and as I pointed out before that the man in question here today is not a Ball worshipper and now you admit it and futher show by your post that you hardly know him at all, and I can almost guarantee that any false Gods of Egyptian origin are more served by those who call themselves Christians, but those who serve the false Gods of Cannan are in view in 2 Cor.6.

 
Quote
As to the husband to be's character, what does that matter in the scope of this discussion?   Jesus never uses that type of thinking in His teachings and neither does Paul.   The fact is this man is spritually dead, if he is an unbeliever.   He could be the nicest guy, which I've heard he is, but that doesn't negate what the scriptures teach-----There is NO fellowship between those who are spiritually alive and those who are spiritually dead.........and there is no guarantee that the spiritually dead will EVER have eternal life through Christ.

 The point is that children of saved parents are dead in their sins as well by your understanding of salvation but God calls them Holy, that is separated to Himself and apart from the world.

 There are other levels of fellowship between Christians and non-Christians and the marriage covenant is not the eternal covenant which you seem to think that it is. This is why God can join Islamic couples together, but by your beliefs God is doing wrong.

 
Quote
As for garnering support, it is not to support my heart, it is to find what the Word of God teaches to support right actions/decisions.   I don't care what "man" thinks, I want to know/understand what the Lord thinks and how HE sees things.  It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that you have a problem with my divorce/remarriage stance and that has overflowed into this particular discussion..........I don't know why else you would have made some of the catty comments you made to me unless there was some animosity towards me from past discussions.

 I just talk straight and people do not like it, and obviously you do think it important what man thinks because you quote them for support for your beliefs, and it is even important to God what we think.   

 
Quote
I am completely for restoration in Christ for those who fall----which is ALL of us since we all sin and fall short.    I believe repentance is the vehicle to restore our relationship/intimacy with the Lord and communion with the Body of Christ (other believers).   I also believe true repentance means the leaving of the sin, not just confessing you know it's sin and continuing on in it anyways.   I don't believe in "no way out".   God ALWAYS gives a way out.   What I do believe is that repentance of certain sins is not desired by the guilty---therefore they think there is no way out while still being able to stay in their sin.

 Well you seem to be making it hard for your sister to know just what is the way out if you say that her only option now is to separate when they have already made the decision to marry which must involve something of Godly guidance that it can occur because if you say that it is impossible that God would bless them in it then how does God bless those who married while being unbelievers and only one becomes a believer? Paul says that the unbeliever is sanctified by the believer in such a situation which you claim can never be arrived at after the fact of living together.

You are wrong.


 
Quote
Scripture teaches living with another is sin (fornication).   Since this man is an unbeliever, that marriage would be adding sin upon sin.   It is not rectifying the sin of fornication.   It is further offending a Holy God---one who died on the cross to set us free from sin.   He did not die so that we could willfully/rebelliously continue in sin.   That is what Paul called using grace so that sin may abound and that mindset is reprehensible.........and it doesn't make one a "legalist" to acknowledge this.   Many of us have been bought from great sin and we look on our salvation and the salvation provided to others with great reverence and thankfulness.

 Well let me tell you that when Christ was whipped and recently shown to most of the world on film, that whether you have recognised it or not, Christ's lashes were taken on Himself on behalf of His elect Bride.

 Rectifying a situatuion is not adding sin to sin.

 
Quote
  The reason I did mention Ezra 9-10 was to show how God hated the intermingling of His people with the heathen----a concept taken right through into NT teachings.    It shows the consistant heart of God concerning His disapproval of mixing His "seed" with the "children of disobedience".

 YOU ARE DEAD WRONG. God loves His people to mix with the non-believer and they have been commanded to do so, for by it they can be led to Christ. You are saying that all non-believers are idolaters of 2 Cor.6. That is not true. You are mixing together truths about worship (spiritual marriage) with that of natural marriage.

 (Gen 48:3-6)  Then Jacob said to Joseph: "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me, {4} "and said to me, 'Behold, I will make you fruitful and multiply you, and I will make of you a multitude of people, and give this land to your descendants after you as an everlasting possession.' {5} "And now your two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine. {6} "Your offspring whom you beget after them shall be yours; they will be called by the name of their brothers in their inheritance.


Quote
        Carmel, I know I can't persuade you to see things how I do or vice versa.   Even so, I don't think this should ever become a "personal" issue.   It's important to me to keep this as scripturally focused as possible and I would hope you would agree.   Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

 That is what scripture is for, that is determining just what the Lords will is by what He has said and not adding to it.
 
 While waiting upon His guidance of course.

Carmel.

judykanova

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2004, 12:07:51 AM »
Quote
Of course it's hypocritical. Anyone can see that. But no one wants to say it out loud because it's judy. Everyone's now going to rip me for saying this. You talk about respect, at least I'm consistent, not trying to straddle the line. I say that marriage to an unbeliever is not a sin, therefore I am free to go to the wedding. At least I'm consistent. She's effectively saying it's a sin, but so what I'm going anyway, and you all talk about respect for that even though you know it's hypocrisy? Come on guys, be fair to everyone, not just the chosen few. If jd@ had said something inconsistent like that, you'd be all over him. Let's not forget scripture. What's that someone says about inconsistency.

 Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Drew,  I'm sure you relish this opportunity to pounce on me, given prior debates on such things as 'free will'. 

I never said I would attend the wedding;  I said I wasn't sure and needed to sort it out to my own satisfaction.  I also acknowledge that I may be wrong, even in my uncertainty.

I appreciate the kindness and patience shown towards me; but recognize that they are nonetheless rebukes ,but of a different, kinder nature.  Titus 1:13  deals with false prophets which I most certainly am not.

But let's look at who's the real hypocrite here.  You're consistent alright when you say there is nothing wrong with a believer and non-believer marrying, and you would therefore attend.  Yet you quote Scripture telling people to sharply 'rebuke' me, that I 'may be sound in the faith' -- such faith or truth that you unequivocally deny.

Go play your divisive games elsewhere; I refuse to remain silent while you use them here because of something I've said.

judy
'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

cindyw

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2004, 01:00:16 AM »
Carmel,

I can find you scripture upon scripture which deals with separation from the Ungodly-------"be ye in the world, yet not "of" the world" (I Cor.5)........  Believers are a temple of the Holy Spirit.   Unbelievers are the "children of disobedience", Satan being their Father.   We can not be yoked.   It has to do with worship-----either one worships the one true God or they worship something else.   I'm curious why you only quoted the last few verses of II Cor. 6., but not verses 14-15 which speaks of exactly who we are not to be yoked with---UNBELIEVERS.

Just to clarify since you try to misrepresent my viewpoints on marriage too.   I DO NOT believe the marriage covenant is ETERNAL.  It is lifelong (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39).   Death dissolves what God joined together. 

Another point you misrepresent me in is this:   I DO believe God joins ALL [/u]legitmate  marriages:  unsaved with unsaved, saved with saved (the new convert would fall under the "unsaved with unsaved"----since they were joined by God prior to one being saved).    Other unions in scripture which some think are legitmate marriages I believe scripture teaches them to be adulteorus unions----not joined by God---at least Jesus called it adultery.   As far as a saved person marrying an unsaved in disobedience to the Lord------Yes, they're married civilly (just as will be the case soon with homosexual marriage), but I'm not so sure if God joins what He forbids.........that is one of those 'on the shelf' things for me that I cannot stand on dogmatically one way or the other.

The rest of your post Carmel...........well, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse into the ground.   It is fruitless.   You will see what you want to.   You think it's quite ok to yoke yourself with unbelievers in the most intimate way possible----through marriage.   I don't see that presented ANYWHERE in NT scripture and you haven't provided any scripture which states such a thing, though I've asked you a few times.    You are certainly entitled to your opinion.    Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Jeff

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2004, 08:46:42 AM »
Of course it's hypocritical. Anyone can see that. But no one wants to say it out loud because it's judy.

Come on guys, be fair to everyone, not just the chosen few. If jd@ had said something inconsistent like that, you'd be all over him.

First of all, several people have noted plainly that Judy's stance was inconsistent, so don't give us that "we're coddling Judy" stuff. Wasn't even Colleen's post showing surprise, and asked if it wasn't a bit hypocritical? What do you want?

Second, Judy didn't specifically say that she'd go to the wedding anyway as you charge she did. She said she didn't know if she would. The fact that there is hesitation is proof of the type spirit she has.

Third, Judy has earned her respect by long time faithfulness to scripture, while others who will remain nameless have earned a reputation for pridefulness and deception.

Fourth, in fact jd@ did say that he would go to the wedding anyway, not maybe, not might go, but that he would go. And so that's different.

And last but not least, we're not all going to agree with each other on every little detail because no one is perfect. So let's not make it like everytime we all have to agree. We should all agree, but we don't all agree because no one is perfect. But this is the exception with Judy, not the rule. She is usually very consistent with scripture. With others, inconsistency is the rule. Just check their posts.


 


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