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Author Topic: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?  (Read 35080 times)

beauty4ashes

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2004, 10:52:36 AM »
Cindy,

We all have sinned and fallen short. You assume she understands the compounded situation of her sin.

I would think if she really understood she would not be entering into it.

Sin makes us stupid you know.

There is a story the Lord tells about the wheat growing along side the tares.

Do we back off and act holier than thou, or do we support telling them that they are in for a hard time but we are there for them.

Who knows she may even back out at the alter? Would you be there for her if she did?

Without love even the holiest works are rags.


cindyw

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2004, 11:20:05 AM »
Cindy,

We all have sinned and fallen short. You assume she understands the compounded situation of her sin.

I would think if she really understood she would not be entering into it.

Sin makes us stupid you know.

There is a story the Lord tells about the wheat growing along side the tares.

Do we back off and act holier than thou, or do we support telling them that they are in for a hard time but we are there for them.

Who knows she may even back out at the alter? Would you be there for her if she did?

Without love even the holiest works are rags.

Beauty, this is not an issue of self righteousness (which are as fithly rags----because it is works based upon the FLESH---which is NEVER pleasing to the Lord).  Holiness however,  is NEVER a "rag"-----as true holiness stems from the Lord and is HIS work in those who believe.   

Our discussion should really revolve around what God's Word teaches concerning those who profess the name of Christ and our response to ungodliness.    If being obedient to God's Word out of a heart to put HIM above all else is being "holier than thou", then I will gladly accept that label.   You seem to be in the camp that says we should "wink" at sin within the Body of believers----even sacrificing truth to "appear" loving.   Compromise, Beauty, is not love.   True love sacrifices comfort, risks rejection, etc in bringing light to a dark situation that most would not touch.   True love, confronts with a heart to bring restoration, not rejection.   I don't reject my sister, nor would I.   I just will not be a party of her rejection of and rebellion towards God's commands by being a part of the celebration of what HE calls sin.    Blessings in Jesus, Cindy


beauty4ashes

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2004, 11:46:07 AM »
Cindy,

No matter what camp you see me as in. You asked what we would do and I told you.

I am telling you what I would do in the situation and doing this in love would be very Holy. The Lord walked among sinners and so do I.

I would not commend the sin but support the sinner. It is her decision to make.

You said your sister is living with this person. Have you been speaking to her?

Oneil

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2004, 12:55:39 PM »
Hi Colleen,

Yes, I agree with everything Judy said, but that point stuck out with me too.   Maybe she meant it in the way that I felt and still do feell......I KNOW what to do, but the doing part is the hard part---emotionally anyways.   



I also was caught offguard by what Judy said. I think it's more of a testimony of the respect we have for her opinions, than anything else.

I agree, the doing is the hard part, but we have to do it anyway. We cannot make exceptions just because it's family and our relationship might suffer. Because I believe that our relationship with God suffers when we do things which we already know is unlawful to do. God says we cannot be unequally yokes with an unbeliever, so we cannot toss that aside in order to attend a ceremony where a believer is yoked together with an unbeliever. That seems pretty cut and dried until we add the circumstance of family and emotions.


Oneil

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2004, 01:02:15 PM »
I am telling you what I would do in the situation and doing this in love would be very Holy. The Lord walked among sinners and so do I.

I would not commend the sin but support the sinner. It is her decision to make.

Christians don't support the sinners, they love the sinners as Christ did. There is a very distinct difference. Christ walked among sinners, He didn't become one by supporting their sinful actions like christians do today. Christ would tell them they can't be unequally yoked, he would not attend the wedding and throw rice. Your whole argument is humanistic and without any basis in scripture.


beauty4ashes

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2004, 05:29:22 PM »
Quote
Your whole argument is humanistic and without any basis in scripture.

I do not consider it humanistic to strive to love God with all my heart and my neighbor as myself.

The Lord did not tell me to love my neighbor as myself only if that neighbor was following scripture.

God desires us to be Christlike and since God is good to both the rightous and unrightous then we should strive to be so also.

If I had sent my sister an invitation to one of the biggest events of my life and then she tells me...no because you are ungodly? Where is the Christ in that? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?


Scot

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2004, 06:32:56 PM »
What if it was a gay marriage? Would you attend that?

beauty4ashes

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2004, 07:26:06 PM »
Scot a very good question.

Since I believe marriage to be only available to a man and woman then I would have to say no.

I don't believe it possible for gays to marry.

cindyw

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2004, 07:30:34 PM »
Scot a very good question.

Since I believe marriage to be only available to a man and woman then I would have to say no.

I don't believe it possible for gays to marry.

Don't you see the contradiction in that?   If it's not possible for gays to marry (since God certainly would not join that union), why is it then ok to attend a wedding which is equally reprehensible to the Lord (a believer being joined with an unbeliever-----light/darkness)?

Diane Moody

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2004, 07:50:05 PM »
Quote
Your whole argument is humanistic and without any basis in scripture.

I do not consider it humanistic to strive to love God with all my heart and my neighbor as myself.

You don't love God with all your heart by disobedience and attending the joining of unbeliever with believer when God said that it was unlawful. How you see that as loving God with all your heart, I can't understand. Love is not making your friends feel good by going with them to unlawful events, it's a lot more than that.


Quote
The Lord did not tell me to love my neighbor as myself only if that neighbor was following scripture.

 You're not addressing the problem. Christians do love their neighbors, but we wouldn't go with them to watch them sin just because we love them. That's what people mean when they say your whole argument is humanistic and without any basis in scripture. You're just talking about feelings and not about what God says about not joining a believer with an unbeliever.

Diane Moody

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2004, 08:00:58 PM »
Scot a very good question.

Since I believe marriage to be only available to a man and woman then I would have to say no.

I don't believe it possible for gays to marry.

That's very selective obedience. There is a great contradiction in your answers. You wouldn't go to a gay marriage because it's sin, but you would go to the marriage joining an unbeliever with a believer that is just as much sin against God as the marriage you say you wouldn't attend. That's hypocrisy and contradiction. A straight unbeliever is just as much bound for hell as a gay unbeliever. Gay or straight, the wages of sin is death.



beauty4ashes

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2004, 08:37:14 PM »
I don't see a contradiction.

There is absolutely no sanction for gay marriage.

There is sanction for union between male and female.

I would tell her she was in for a hard time but it was her decision...I wouldn't desert her.

I am so glad the Lord never leaves or forsakes us. We so easily forsake each other.

While people often leave the Lord...He never leaves us.

Can't you see that the devil is attacking her?

Does the army run off and leave a comrade in the hands of the enemy without a fight?

I would attend that wedding and be praying the whole time.

I would continue the prayers through the trials to come and the inevitable divorce.

I would pray for her faith to not fail through it all.

I would never leave her to the battle alone since it is obvious the enemy has his hands on her.




Scot

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2004, 09:04:58 PM »
If I were for gay marriage, I could use the same reasoning that you just used to justify attending a marriage between a beliver and a nonbeliever.

Yes, there is a sanction for union between male and female but not if one is a believer and the other is not. There would be no difference if you attended a gay wedding. God says that it's forbidden. Period. So he also says it's forbidden for a believer to marry a nonbeliever. By going to it, you would be giving your blessing.

You say that you'd attend the wedding and be praying the whole time. Why then couldn't you attend a gay wedding and be praying the whole time?

If we truly want to show love towards someone then we stand for God's truth without comprimise.

Carmel

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2004, 09:32:14 PM »
Cindy,

   
Quote
Carmel, since you think once a person has committed one sin, that it's ok to commit another to rectify the first, my husband gave a good analogy:    a person purchases a ticket to a porn movie.  In your thinking, since they already purchased the ticket (lived in sin), they should go ahead and watch the movie now(get married to an unbeliever)----even knowing it is sin, because they already spent their money on it (invested in this relationship)..................would you condone going into the porno movie after purchasing the ticket?   If so, why?   If not, why not?  Just something to consider.

 You poor dear.

 Do you remember what David did. You insist that People who are endeavering to make things right, never will be able to do so, because you place your law upon them, and have concluded that a sinner could not be married in the Lord with the believer by his promise to not hinder the faith of the believer.

 You see the only scripture bought up in these discussions, which on the surface of it forbids marriage of a believer to a non believer is--

1Co 7:39  The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

 So unless you have more evidence than that to support your viewpoint then your case has no scriptural merit whatever, because it does not say what you think it says.

 (Mat 19:4-6)  And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' {5} "and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? {6} "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

 The Lord joins together two unsaved people does he or not?

 Either way your arguement is a falsehood because 1 Cor.7:39 does not say what you make it out to be.

 and any harm done to those who are trying to make things right by your taking such a stance will be on your own head sweety, because it is based on what you read into some scriptures while ignoring so many others which show Gods willingness to forgive and of helping them to make things right before God which as ambassadors of Christ we ought to be able to show them.

However so often it is that the unsaved is hindered from coming to Christ by the biggoted attitudes of the believer who has made an unnecessary enemy of them right from the start by their near absence of truth and wisdom.

 I have already shown you that the whole family of a believer is sanctified by God for their sake, that is He will take care of them as for His own household or at least as we do for our unsaved children until they believe, which term is not that clear because most children of believers can not be classed as un-believers of 2 Cor.ch.6 or you would be commanded to leave them sweety.

 Your inability to reason these things properly is shown by the above quote of what you said. It is not the position at all.

 It is better to make known what God desires of them and tell them that you will be praying for them to come to understand it, rather than go about on the net condemning them with Cindys law.

 You never once asked anyone what could be done to help them get this mess sorted out.

 I am sure that there are other people on the net who could testify of how with the Lords help they were able to set things right with God and their friends and relatives, but it is doubtfull that many would come forth to say so when they read that you condemn their marriages by placing them in the same category as porno movies.

 (Mat 18:6-7)  "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 Carmel.





 

 

cindyw

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Re: Should Believers Marry Unbelievers?
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2004, 11:51:12 PM »
Cindy,    
Quote
You poor dear.

 Do you remember what David did. You insist that People who are endeavering to make things right, never will be able to do so, because you place your law upon them, and have concluded that a sinner could not be married in the Lord with the believer by his promise to not hinder the faith of the believer.

 You see the only scripture bought up in these discussions, which on the surface of it forbids marriage of a believer to a non believer is--

1Co 7:39  The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

 So unless you have more evidence than that to support your viewpoint then your case has no scriptural merit whatever, because it does not say what you think it says.

 (Mat 19:4-6)  And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' {5} "and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? {6} "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

 The Lord joins together two unsaved people does he or not?

 Either way your arguement is a falsehood because 1 Cor.7:39 does not say what you make it out to be.

 and any harm done to those who are trying to make things right by your taking such a stance will be on your own head sweety, because it is based on what you read into some scriptures while ignoring so many others which show Gods willingness to forgive and of helping them to make things right before God which as ambassadors of Christ we ought to be able to show them.

However so often it is that the unsaved is hindered from coming to Christ by the biggoted attitudes of the believer who has made an unnecessary enemy of them right from the start by their near absence of truth and wisdom.

 I have already shown you that the whole family of a believer is sanctified by God for their sake, that is He will take care of them as for His own household or at least as we do for our unsaved children until they believe, which term is not that clear because most children of believers can not be classed as un-believers of 2 Cor.ch.6 or you would be commanded to leave them sweety.

 Your inability to reason these things properly is shown by the above quote of what you said. It is not the position at all.

 It is better to make known what God desires of them and tell them that you will be praying for them to come to understand it, rather than go about on the net condemning them with Cindys law.

 You never once asked anyone what could be done to help them get this mess sorted out.

 I am sure that there are other people on the net who could testify of how with the Lords help they were able to set things right with God and their friends and relatives, but it is doubtfull that many would come forth to say so when they read that you condemn their marriages by placing them in the same category as porno movies.

 (Mat 18:6-7)  "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 Carmel.




If you read this whole thread you will not see "cindy's law" you will see GOD'S LAW which He expects to be followed by those who say they love Him.   I am far from the only one who believes that unbelievers and believers should not be joined in marriage Carmel.   Yes, I Cor. 7:39 says so and so does II Cor. 6:14-18.   You choose to ignore those scriptures which very clearly state that we are not to be yoked with UNBELIEVERS.    That is not Cindy's Word, it is God's Word.    That scripture you quoted is a good one Carmel-----a good one for you to ponder as well.   It speaks of causing others to sin.    To say it's no big deal to go against what God commands is serious business-----it is the reason many divorces are now taking place in the church.  You are speaking of defiantly committing sin and then excusing it.  Sin affects our relationship with the Lord as well as others in the Body.   Premeditated/or unrepentant sin is not to be winked at or excused away.    Jesus never did that and neither should we.   Yes, He was extremely loving to those who knew no better.    However, to those who claimed to be "religious", He was not quite as "soft" with them-----because they had the scriptures and abused them to their own benefits.

I Cor. 7:12 does NOT speak of a believer entering into a new marriage with an unbeliever.   Paul was speaking of marriages already contracted before anyone was saved..........then AFTER the marriage one was converted.    This clearly is not a permission to marry an unbeliever as Paul clarifies in I Cor. 7:39 and spoke again to it in II Cor. 6:14-18.   Scripture interprets scripture and there is no scripture which states what you say is true:   if an unbeliever "promised" to not hinder the believer's faith, then they could get married.  Where is that scripture?

Carmel, you have not provided any scripture which shows that marriage to an unbeliever is permissible by God-----that He "joins" that union.    Yes, when man and woman get married-----according to what God allows in His Word----He joins them .   Those who decide to do it "their way"..........who's to say they are really married in God's sight?   Does He join that which He forbids?   Is He subject to our desires or are we, as children of His, subject to His expectations/commands?   I believe the latter to be the case.  Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

 


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