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Author Topic: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15  (Read 21264 times)

Daniel

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Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« on: November 05, 2003, 02:49:58 PM »
Please explain 1 cor. 3:15 in relation to Tony Warren's article "Do Christians Receive Rewards according to their Works on Earth".  I'am confused by that verse.
                                                    Thank You,
                                                        Daniel

GoldRush

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2003, 12:30:05 PM »
Daniel,

We have not read Tony's article (yet!), but I Cor. 3:15 reads:

"If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."  

It is our understanding that God makes clear distinction here between physical deeds and spiritual fruits.

 All things physical and material are temporary and subject to destruction.

Only the spiritual is everlasting.

Thus, it is our being motivated by God's Spirit to do the "good works"  of God (Eph. 2:10) that counts with God and it is the spirit of our heart that will bring reward.  And of course, that spiritual motivation must be faithfulness in Christ Jesus, for:

"Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."  Hebrews 11:6

J&R
GoldRush
". . Without Me, you can do nothing."
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Tony Warren

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2003, 12:43:02 PM »
>>>
Please explain 1 cor. 3:15 in relation to Tony Warren's article "Do Christians Receive Rewards according to their Works on Earth".  I'am confused by that verse.
                                                    Thank You,
                                                        Daniel
<<<


Picking up the context...

VERSE THIRTEEN:

1st Corinthians 3:13
  • "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is."

In the context of this chapter, as we are the Church going through life laboring in Christ (our work) building this Holy Temple upon the foundation of our Lord, some of those who are called as the fruits of our work, have not truly been refined in the fire and made precious by Christ's judgment in our stead. We are finite beings do not know that now, because only God knows "for sure" who is truly saved. But on judgment day, the fire of God shall reveal it, because worthless material (wood, hay, and stubble) will burn, while those refined (gold, silver and precious stones) have already been through the fire (in Christ's death), have had all the dross purged, and are material that will not burn. So that on that day, the fire will reveal which stones (the building of the Church) are truly precious, and which ones are worthless in God's sight.

As we spread the gospel, we are doing the work of faith as vessels which God uses to 'build' His Church. we are building with people, living stones in the house of God. This is what this temple building illustrates. God building His Holy Temple, through us. Our work here is the people we bring into the Church by our preaching the gospel.

1st Corinthians 9:1
  • "Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?"

The answer is yes. These people are "His work" in the Lord. Everyone who comes into the Church by our preaching the gospel is "our work" in Christ. We don't know how many become "truly" Saved as we are used of God as vessels, and we don't know how many are merely professing Christ, but remain dead in their sins. We look on the outward man, but God looks on the inward man. What type stone he is will be revealed by fire in the end.

2nd Corinthians 5:10
  • "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

When someone who is not saved stands before God, He is undone. When we stand before God, we stand as Refined material, Pure, Holy, Without sin or impurity. The fire shall try (test) all of our work which we by grace of God have brought into the temple. Whether it be Gold, silver and precious stones, or it be wood hay and stubble.


VERSE FOURTEEN:

1st Corinthians 3:14
  • "If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

We are rewarded ('[misthos]', meaning paid) according to our good work in building, and likewise, the wicked are rewarded according to their bad works. But be not confused. The difference is, we are paid according to the "work of Christ" on our behalf, as He is who makes our works perfect before God. He made propitiation for our sins. But the wicked, having no Saviour, are paid according to "their own works". For anyone to say these works which come into the Church are of ourselves, that we should merit reward, doesn't understand the "doctrines of Grace", nor the efficacy of the master builder.

Psalms 127:1
  • "..Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain."

Could any of us be working to build the Church, and the Lord not be responsible for it? Can we be elect of God, and 'Him' not work in us? God forbid. We have perfect works only because of God. What reward then could we expect?

Hebrews 13:21
  • "Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

It is God's work we do, for He performs it within us. Thus are we rewarded according to His perfection in building, and his work in moving us to do His will. By contrast, the wicked are rewarded according to their own sins.

2nd Peter 2:12-13
  • "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
  • And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;"

The wages or reward of unrighteousness is eternal death, and the reward for righteousness is eternal life. God will reward each man according to his works. We merit the reward "by Christ". What is the reward? It is the inheritance of Salvation. If those who come into the Church by our preaching abide, we shall receive the reward for our work in Christ, which is the inheritance.

Colossians 3:24
  • "Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ."

In our work, we serve the Lord. If that work abide, we will receive the reward of inheritance. If it doesn't abide, our bad work is not held to our charge. And God illustrates this in the next verse.


VERSE FIFTEEN:
1st Corinthians 3:15
  • ""If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

If those who come into the Church by our preaching are found to be unsaved, we will suffer the loss of them (as they will be burned in the fire). Yet God does not hold us responsible, as He declares that "we ourselves" shall still be saved, as by fire. This is because it is impossible that our salvation would be based upon our good works or labor of bringing these people in. We are saved because our work in salvation was based upon our going through the refiner's fire, and our works being made perfect, and without impurity. In other words, the illustration here is that we lose (suffer loss of) these stones which were worthless, and yet we still receive the reward of inheritance (salvation), yet so by fire. We are not Saved by the number of people which we have brought into the Church (works). Our work is truly efficacious by the work of Christ, and any works which were not perfect which we have done in building, do not affect our salvation. The same judgement fire which burns the worthless, is the fire which Christ went through and purified us that we appear precious before the throne. It cannot harm us anymore. Christ having gone through those fires on our behalf.

Zechariah 13:9
  • ""And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."

This isn't a future burning up of our bad works that would separate us from God, it is a "past" burning up of our works, in the body of Christ. That's why when we suffer loss, we still receive the inheritance, yet so by fire. To say that 1st Corinthians 3:15 speaks of a future time when our bad works will be burned up, is to deny Christ's work or propitiation was sufficient to the task. Not so. The reason we still receive the reward, is because it is "by fire" and not by our own efforts in building, as some surmise.

Romans 4:4
  • "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."

The principle here is, Reward is reconed by Grace, not of works. Nor can it be.


VERSE SIXTEEN:

1st Corinthians 3:16
  • "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

And God brings it all together signifying that we are a part of this Holy Temple Christ by intimately identifying His Body with His building. We are living stones of the Temple, so intimately identified with Christ that we are the Temple, with Christ present both within us (if we are truly saved), and is the very foundation of the whole body of believers. For the true believer, the gold, Silver, and precious stones, Christ dwells within us permeating every part of our being that we both "will and do".

Why would we receive a reward according to our works, if our works were because of Christ and not ourselves? This is a contradiction to the doctrines of Grace.

2nd Timothy 1:9
  • "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and Grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

The doctrine of looking for or expecting rewards according to our own labours a bankrupt doctrine, which is contrary to God's Word, providence, and sovereignty. Our reward is "all of grace", and none of works. The parable of the laborers in the field make that make that perfectly plain. Unambiguously God tells us that they all received the exact same reward or wages (same word) no matter how hard they worked, or how long they worked, or how much they complained about the heat when others had not been in such heat (Matthew chapter 20). vis a vis, we have the equal distribution of reward to every man, no matter what, a image picture of what happens in the end when we must stand before the throne of God and receive according to our works. Consider the parable wisely.

Romans 11:6
  • "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Every work that is not perfect that we do was purged from us in the body of Christ. He became our works, sin for us, and in him they were purged. Christ has already paid for our bad works purging us of them on the cross. This is not something man is saying, it is what God says. Those teachers who use this verse in an attempt to have sin of some sort remain in us and purged on a future judgment day are doing so without any Biblical validation. In fact, this belief of our bad works being burnt up later is eerily like Roman Catholic doctrines of Purgatory, in that people are alleged to have some remaining works that must be purged after Christ died for us. Or must suffer loss for works that weren't perfect (same thing). Such beliefs are incompatible with the Christ of the Bible. What do we think God was talking about when He referenced this burning off of our impurities? It is Zechariah 13:9. This isn't a future burning up of our works that separate us from God, it is past.

Who says that all our impurities are purged at the cross. Is it us, or is it God? That's what so many do not understand about the witness of the Word. It's not man talking, it's God saying these things. He burned up all our imperfect works at the cross, and to deny this is heretical. It's theologically nonsensical because except we are faultless, blameless, clothed in white without spot, we will all be cast into Hell. Anyone who stands before God bringing imperfect works that shall not receive a full reward, will be cast into the lake of fire. They won't have these works burned off that they suffer loss, 'as if' there is some future purging or purgatory type cleansing of works. It is written.

2nd Timothy 3:17
  • "That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Daniel

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2003, 01:22:56 PM »
Tony,
    Thank you for your response. I agree with your response. My understanding was muddied by faulty
commentaries.
                                            Thank You Again,
                                                  Daniel

Daisy

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2003, 03:04:11 PM »
That's a nice explanation Tony. But you know, ever since I've been reading your posts on the external covenant, I've been seeing it demonstrated in everything. Funny how you have a little light shine on something, and then it illuminates the whole room and you start seeing things in the room you didn't notice before? That's how I feel. I'm even using your metaphors.  :)

The wood hay and stubble would have to be the external covenant church. Am I correct on this?

Bradley

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2003, 09:54:59 PM »
>>>That's a nice explanation Tony. But you know, ever since I've been reading your posts on the external covenant, I've been seeing it demonstrated in everything. Funny how you have a little light shine on something, and then it illuminates the whole room and you start seeing things in the room you didn't notice before? That's how I feel. I'm even using your metaphors.  

The wood hay and stubble would have to be the external covenant church. Am I correct on this?<<<

Yes, you are correct on this.

2 Timothy 2:19-21
19   Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20   But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Bradley


Daisy

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2003, 08:01:24 AM »
Quote
Yes, you are correct on this.

2 Timothy 2:19-21
19  Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Bradley

Thank you Bradley,
   It's an exciting time for learning about scripture. That verse fits perfectly with corinthians and the external covenant Church. Isn't it strange how you've read verses before, but never really put them together?


Daniel

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2003, 08:58:30 AM »
Hello,
     I thank all of you for your input regarding this verse.
As Daisy mentioned, "It's exicting time for learning about
scripture."

Bradley

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2003, 12:37:41 PM »
>>>It's an exciting time for learning about scripture. That verse fits perfectly with corinthians and the external covenant Church. Isn't it strange how you've read verses before, but never really put them together?<<<

Hey Daisy,

I just thank God for the spirit of understanding which comes to us by the working of his mighty power.

Ephesians 1:17-19
17   That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18   The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19   And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

I think you can also be eternally thankful for growing in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour.  It is by this growth you know you are part of the elect of God.  He has equipped us with all spiritual blessings by which we participate in his divine nature.  We have nothing from ourselved to glory in, and everything in Christ to glory in.

2 Peter 1:3-4 and 10
3   According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4   Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

10   Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

God is so good!!

Bradley

Joe Johnson

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2005, 03:44:21 AM »
I see a lot of people like to judge other Christians on what they believe. Why can't we all just believe what we personally want and not have other Christians say it is wrong?

You know, the truth is, there are many scriptures that show that 'faith without works is dead'. But this always seems to draw the ire of those around here. I cannot figure out why you say that we don't have a doctrine of grace. Tony Warren goes so far as to say it is just 'another doctrine of works'. My question is why? Roman Catholicism is a doctrine of grace as anyone who knows the doctrine should see. Free will is a doctrine of grace as well. And the doctrine of rewards doesn't make our doctrine one of works.

 Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:

Why shouldn't man be rewarded for his works? And people who are the hard workers, and who work longer in their missions on this earth will receive more of a reward for their efforts. As it should be. It's only fair. Now don't get me wrong. It is very clear to me that man cannot save himself through works, but it is also very clear that man will be judged by the work we do in Christ.

 Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

A yoke is used to harness a team of horses or oxen together to do work. The implication of Jesus's words is that Jesus has some work for his followers to do. You attempt to force us to believe that this relates to the 'Great Commission' to evangelize the world? That's wrong, this is the Christian walk. It requires work.

Pilgrim

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2005, 04:42:56 PM »
I see a lot of people like to judge other Christians on what they believe. Why can't we all just believe what we personally want and not have other Christians say it is wrong?



Because that would mean that we were false christians and didn't really care about our brothers and sisters. We show our love for them in that we prove their beliefs are in error by the scriptures that they might be corrected and instructed in the truth.

 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

If we were as the false christians, we wouldn't even care if you held false doctrines or not. But love as Christ loved, is to have compassion and take the time to exhort, correct, and instruct. You call that a negative, but God doesn't see it that way.

 1 John 3:16 "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."

We lay down our lives on the altar of service, and this is the love of God we have and show for those in error. It's true, not a lot of christians have this true christian love, but where it is found, you find the spirit of God.

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." -Matthew 1:21

Tony Warren

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2005, 07:09:17 PM »
>>>
I see a lot of people like to judge other Christians on what they believe. Why can't we all just believe what we personally want and not have other Christians say it is wrong?

Because that would mean that we were false christians and didn't really care about our brothers and sisters. We show our love for them in that we prove their beliefs are in error by the scriptures that they might be corrected and instructed in the truth.

 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
<<<


Amen to "everything" that Pilgrim said! That is precisely the case. Love is as God defines love, not as the world defines it, which is in terms of sentimentality, feelings and humanistic emotion.

1st John 5:3
  • "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

This is how we know that we love God. When we have an earnest desire to do the will of God and not our own. when we receive "authority" of scripture, and not judge by what seems right in our own eyes. His commandments are not grievous or burdensome because the elect have the love of God that they both do His will, and teach that the brethren also should to do His will. This is love (Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 19:19, 23:39; Romans 13:9; Galatians 5:14; James 2:8 ). Many act as if correction is a vice, or that Christ's laws are unreasonable, but to the contrary, the work that God assigns to us are not beyond our ability, they are a natural product of the love of God in us. Our own good works are not the reason for our salvation or for our rewards, they are an evidence of salvation and rewards. Christ secured our rewards for us by His work. So it is easy to love the word of God and be obedient to God when the heart is right.

Psalms 40:8-9
  • "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
  • I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest."

The problem with the Church today is that they do refrain their lips, they do hold delight to do God's will, they do not preach righteousness in the congregation. And this is not a virtue, as so many today seem to believe.


Quote
>>>
You know, the truth is, there are many scriptures that show that 'faith without works is dead'. But this always seems to draw the ire of those around here. I cannot figure out why you say that we don't have a doctrine of grace. Tony warren goes so far as to say it is just 'another doctrine of works'. My question is why? Roman Catholicism is a doctrine of grace as anyone who knows the doctrine should see. Free will is a doctrine of grace as well. And the doctrine of rewards doesn't make our doctrine one of works.

 Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:

Why shouldn't man be rewarded for his works? And people who are the hard workers, and who work longer in their missions on this earth will receive more of a reward for their efforts. As it should be. It's only fair.

Free will is a doctrine of grace as well. And the doctrine of rewards doesn't make our doctrine one of works.
<<<

We are rewarded. The reward is eternal life, and it was secured for us by the death of Christ, not by how long or well we labored in this life.

As far as Grace/Works,  it doesn't take much to figure out that where you must do some work in order to obtain something,  then works are a requirement.  In other words,  a works gospel. Likewise  if we are rewarded depending upon what we "do" (work) on earth,  again  it's not a reward by grace, it is then a debt that God owes us. God tells us this very clearly.

Romans 4:4
  • "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace  but of debt."

The language of we not working is because Christ has done all the works for us. Thus we receive a "full" reward. All of us. Because being born of Him from above, He works in us to will and to do. God owes us nothing for our own work or walk in this world (which would make it debt), because He is the one who is working within us that we are not as desperately wicked as the next guy. i.e. Grace! ..our reward is of Grace  not debt.


Quote
>>>
Job 7:2 As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:

Why shouldn't man be rewarded for his works? And people who are the hard workers, and who work longer in their missions on this earth will receive more of a reward for their efforts. As it should be. It's only fair.
<<<

Well, if we were judged fairly, apart from the work of Christ, we'd all be sent directly to hell for all our works. Because the best of them are as filthy rags to a Holy, Righteous God.

Psalms 53:2-3
  • "God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
  • Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Isaiah 64:6
  • "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

So then, according to God, which one of us of ourselves "deserved" some better reward for our works or of our own merit? ..Not one of us. There is none that doeth good, NO NOT ONE!

A works doctrine? Christ explained unambiguously in the parable of the Kingdom (again  debunking the rewards for works error) that no matter how long we work, or how hard we work, or what burden we bear while working, we all receive the exact same reward for our labors in this world. Why aren't we hearing that? If the word of God is the ultimate "authority," then we must "receive" His word as the uncorrupted unadulterated truth concerning this. No matter what man says.

Matthew 20:1-16
  • "For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.[
  • And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
  • And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace.
  • And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
  • Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
  • And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle  and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
  • They say unto him  Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
  • So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
  • And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
  • But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
  • And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
  • Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us  which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
  • But he answered one of them, and said  Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
  • Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last  even as unto thee.
  • Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
  • So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called but few chosen."

So while some are waiting for the hard workers, the long workers, or the burdened workers to receive more of a reward for their efforts, God has His own plans. And they call for all receiving the exact same reward "for their labors." Theologians and Christian opinion notwithstanding.


Quote
>>>
Now don't get me wrong. It is very clear to me that man cannot save himself through works, but it is also very clear that man will be judged by the work we do in Christ.
<<<

But the work we do in Christ is "Perfect" and deserves a full reward, which is what each and every one of the elect shall get. Not a quarter reward, not a half reward, but a full reward. We have no need to worry about quantity of reward in the day of judgment in Christ, because His love is perfected in us.

1st John 4:16-17
  • "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
  • Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world."

We need not fear judgment, and we need not fear lack of work that we receive not a full reward, precisely because we are perfected in Christ. Look up the words blameless, clean, and spotless in a dictionary. Then you will see why we all receive the same reward. Because all our works are seen of God as perfect in Christ.


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 Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

A yoke is used to harness a team of horses or oxen together to do work. The implication of Jesus's words is that Jesus has some work for his followers to do.
<<<

But is it implication, assumption, or simply misconception? First, "of course" Christ has work for His servants to do. vis a'vis, the parable of the laborers in the field. The question is not, "do we work," the question is, why do we do good works when others do not? And the answer is, because of grace (the unmerited favor of God upon us). Not because we are a tad more righteous, or a bit smarter, or because we are a little better person than our neighbor that we merit a bigger or better reward. That is man's delusion, it is all because of the love of God in us.

1st John 4:19
  • "We love him, because he first loved us."

See the point here? We didn't love God and work harder because we were better than the next guy, but because God first loved us. So how would we think we merit more than the next guy for our work in loving Him? No, we love God because of the love of God in us. I'll stand on the solid foundation of the Word of the Living God concerning this. You are neglecting the total context of Christ's words in the passage. The context is not one of our works and their reward, but how we have rest from our works in Christ, the burden and yoke being light. We are not in the yoke of bondage of the law, but in the "Rest" of Christ, which is Grace. We lay all our heavy burdens (WORK) down at the feet of the cross and receive Rest in Christ. You are misusing this scripture to have it say something it doesn't say.

Matthew 11:28-30
  • "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
  • Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
  • For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

The services that Christ requires are easily extracted because they are not burdensome (the law is) as all other religious systems are. Because the labor required was "finished" in the work of Christ. Thus He has now sent His Spirit to "work within us" to will and to do of His good will. I honestly ask you, what reward merit we when this is the case? The word of God is clear that "He" is the one working in us (the elect) both to will, and to do. And again, these are not my words, but the "uncorrupted" word of God.

Philippians 2:13
  • "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

That is to say, both to move our will, and to give us energy to do (work). The words translated "worketh" and translated "do" is the Greek word [energeo] where we get the word energy from. Clearly, it is not our own energy, but the energy of God in us that we have the will to do good works, and the energy to do good works. So again, how would we think in this "we of ourselves" merit extra rewards?

Hebrews 13:21
  • "Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight  through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."

Does it get any clearer than that? God "makes" us perfect in our good works. Again, how then do we of ourselves merit more than the next guy when it is the Lord who deserves all the credit?

1st Corinthians 15:10
  • "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I  but the grace of God which was with me."

Paul got it!   Man today, arrogant in his own vain egotism, doesn't get it. But clearly Paul understood who it was that deserved all the credit for his good works and great labors in Christ. We would do well to take a lesson from him. But man today is full of himself, and in essence retorts, "wrong God, it was I, and I deserve more rewards for my well doing." But the faithful Christians of old understood, it is "NOT I" but God who is the cause of all my faithful work. Therefore, all Glory goes to Him.


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You attempt to force us to believe that this relates to the 'Great Commission' to evangelize the world?  That's wrong, this is the Christian walk. It requires work.
<<<

We do have a Christian walk, yet not by our own goodness that deserves varying individual rewards, but by Christ which dwells within us and causes us to walk and not faint, yea, even to run, and not be weary. What Glory of rewards should we expect for something that God Himself, bestowing Grace upon us, is responsible for? If in Christianity a reward is reckoned of works, then you would have a case. But it's not. It's by the faith we received by Grace of God.

Romans 4:4-5
  • "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
  • But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

If a reward is reckoned or counted as of works, then it is no more Grace. For then it would be a debt that God would owe us for our labor. But God owes us nothing! For our own righteousness is as filthy rags. It is us who owed the Lord, and it is Christ who paid that debt "IN FULL!" So we're back to the same place every time. How then do we of ourselves merit a greater reward for works? So we have to rightly divide the word of truth, that we rightly understand what it is saying.

Just as in the parable of the workers in the Field that I quoted, if we think that we merit more rewards because we toiled longer, or harder, or because we bore the heat of the day or more trials and tribulations, then we are "ignoring" the scriptures in order to hold to these traditions. Because that parable shoots that theory down leaving no room for wiggle. "ALL" the laborers in the field shall receive the exact same reward "for their labor." That's the key phrase, "for their labors." In fact, it would be nonsensical if man were rewarded for having better works than the next guy. For we all have the same "perfect" work record, which shall receive a full reward. Our lives are looked upon of God as being spotless, without sin (any bad works), clean and white.

How then could we receive a lessor reward?

nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"


GoldRush

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2005, 11:57:08 PM »
I see a lot of people like to judge other Christians on what they believe.

How long you been here, Joe?  How much of this so-called "judging" have you observed?


 
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Why can't we all just believe what we personally want and not have other Christians say it is wrong?

Well, that would be a so-called "Rodney King" message . . . pleading, "can't we all just get along?"

~Getting along~  is not nearly important as obeying and proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Holy Scriptures!!!

True Christians only confront expressed beliefs as being wrong, when such beliefs do not conform to the Holy Scriptures.

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You know, the truth is, there are many scriptures that show that 'faith without works is dead'.

Not many Scriptures say such, but only certain Scriptures from the Book of James, which must be quoted and understood within context.  (James 1:14-26)

No one on this web site disagrees with the teaching of James, but they have the integrity to always exegete James' teachings within context of the teachings of the rest of the Bible.

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I cannot figure out why you say that we don't have a doctrine of grace.

Who is "we?"

 
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Tony Warren goes so far as to say it is just 'another doctrine of works'.


~What~ is just "another doctrine of works?"  If you are supposedly "new" here, what exactly do you claim Warren is answering to?




 
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My question is why? Roman Catholicism is a doctrine of grace as anyone who knows the doctrine should see.

Oh . . .you are a Roman Catholic . . .supposedly "new here," . . .but apparently already familiar with Warren's argument against Roman Catholics.

Your argument is therefore knowledgeable and disingenous. . .and . . .

The Roman Catholic Doctrine is not a doctrine of grace.  It is a false gospel proposing works-righteousness (Semi-Pelagianism).





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Free will is a doctrine of grace as well.

You will fail to sell that spiritual lie around here!

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And the doctrine of rewards doesn't make our doctrine one of works.  this is the Christian walk. It requires work.

Phooey . . .   read Hebrews 4:3-10.

You are a false teacher, deliberately bringing a false gospel to this site, in full knowledge of what the Christian membership here stands for.

J&R




GoldRush
". . Without Me, you can do nothing."
  John 15:5

andreas

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Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2005, 03:01:52 AM »
 <<<I see a lot of people like to judge other Christians on what they believe. Why can't we all just believe what we personally want and not have other Christians say it is wrong?>>>

 "Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name." Psalm 86:11

 The devil knows with his mind that Jehovah is God; but he does not know that with his heart. Hence the prayer here: Unite my heart to fear Thy name.
Unless our hearts say that we must and we want to walk in His way, the way He has set before us by His act of creating us, we will not walk in the truth.

Every day we must pray that we may know the truth in our hearts, so that we want to walk in it. Walking in the lie is walking in Satan's way.
andreas. 8)
kai ean diabainhs dió udatos meta sou eimi kai potamoi ou sugklusousin se kai ean dielqhs dia puros ou mh katakauqhs flox ou katakausei Isaiah 43:2

Arnold

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  • The Spirit is willing, but the Flesh is weak.
Re: Do Christians Receive Rewards for Works - 1st Corinthians 3:15
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2005, 01:04:16 PM »
Come on guys. Joe does have a point. Can anyone explain explain James 2:17 where it says very clearly that "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

 


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