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Author Topic: The Salvation of the Gentiles  (Read 1250 times)

Erik Diamond

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The Salvation of the Gentiles
« on: September 07, 2017, 03:51:30 PM »

Heb 11:11-12
[11]  Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
[12]  Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Rom 11:24
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Eph 2:12-14
[12]  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13]  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14]  For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

A Jewish Christian insisted that the Gentiles are heathens as I defined it, wasn't biblical because he believe that the Gentiles who God save are the ones who have Jewish Roots as result from the dispersion of Northern Ten Tribes of Israel that were mixed with the heathens.  He does not believe the heathen Gentiles can be part of Christian Churches unless they first have Jewish root.

I believe that God can save any heathens Gentiles regardless of their Jewish/roots/nations/background, etc. 

So who is right? And why?



"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Russell Lloyd

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 08:02:36 PM »

You should ask who told him that. Because it sure is not something he got from the bible. A Gentile is a Gentile (non-Jew), there are no upgrades or better versions of Gentiles. And God says unbelieving Jews are not Jews, so what does that make them? If this person doesn't accept the bible as the authority, it's impossible to defend doctrines with him.

Hammerle Labinowic

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 01:41:20 AM »

A Jewish Christian insisted that the Gentiles are heathens


Heathens are non Jews so no Christian can be a heathen because they are Jews.

Quote
he believe that the Gentiles who God save are the ones who have Jewish Roots as result from the dispersion of Northern Ten Tribes of Israel that were mixed with the heathen.

You can't mix Jew with heathen, once saved you are Jews in God's sight, not heathen. As for the ten northern tribes, I suggest you give him a copy of Tony's Study:

 The 10 Lost Tribes of Israel

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/the_lost_tribes_of_israel.shtml


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He does not believe the heathen Gentiles can be part of Christian Churches unless they first have Jewish root.

The Root is Christ, the source and Seed of all who are Israel. If they have Christ, they are Jews and heirs according to all the promises to Israel.


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I believe that God can save any heathens Gentiles regardless of their Jewish/roots/nations/background, etc. 

So who is right? And why?

Romans 11:18

Robert Powell

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 07:08:01 AM »
You can't mix Jew with heathen, once saved you are Jews in God's sight, not heathen. As for the ten northern tribes, I suggest you give him a copy of Tony's Study:

 The 10 Lost Tribes of Israel

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/the_lost_tribes_of_israel.shtml

 :amen:  Required Reading! 

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 11:17:17 AM »
Thank you guys. I forgot about Tony's study on lost tribes of Israel.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2017, 05:55:33 AM »
>>>
He does not believe the heathen Gentiles can be part of Christian Churches unless they first have Jewish root.
<<<

They "do" have Jewish root, in Christ Jesus.  Anyone, any heathen born of God has Jewish root in Christ Jesus and the sure mercies of David, which is the reason God says we are all Jews of the commonwealth of Israel and heirs according to the promises. Not by flesh, but by being in Christ.

Revelation 22:16
  • "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

He is the Root that makes us Jews. This word Root is the same word as in Romans 11:18. Christ is that root of the Olive Tree that we are grafted into, assuring we are not only chosen sons of God, and heirs of the inheritance of sons, but are nourished by Him.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2017, 01:04:06 PM »
Quote from: Tony Warren
They "do" have Jewish root, in Christ Jesus.  Anyone, any heathen born of God has Jewish root in Christ Jesus and the sure mercies of David, which is the reason God says we are all Jews of the commonwealth of Israel and heirs according to the promises. Not by flesh, but by being in Christ.

A Jewish Christian I talked about still does not believe Jewish root in Christ Jesus. He insisted that Gentiles is not a correct meaning of Hebrew word, GUYM. He said that it only concerns the descendants of Abraham scattered all over the world.  Not non-Israel "Gentiles." He advised that we would give up our "Roman roots" and cling to our "kinsman redeemer rather than false Greco-Roman universal Redeemer. I felt his position is confusion.

I like to give you the opportunity to read the article He asked me to read here here.  I never heard such hatred against "non-Jews" Gentiles like this from someone who claim to be Jewish-Christian before.   
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2017, 01:15:46 PM »
>>>
I like to give you the opportunity to read the article He asked me to read here here.  I never heard such hatred against "non-Jews" Gentiles like this from someone who claim to be Jewish-Christian before.
<<<

Hi, I'm off to do something else now, but I will check it out maybe tomorrow or Sunday. But my sense is that it's the same old genealogical pride in justifications/rationalizations.  But will try to have an open mind.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2017, 01:34:11 PM »
Thank you Tony. Looking forward to hear your perspective on this. I, too, tried to have open mind but something still bothered me about his doctrine.  I do not think Christ is saving "Gentiles" based on DNA (ie. Jewish-root/descendant of Abraham/Northern Ten Tribes of Israel).
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Lieberman

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 06:48:54 PM »
I will check it out maybe tomorrow or Sunday. But my sense is that it's the same old genealogical pride in justifications/rationalizations. 

 :iagree: That's exactly what it is.  Don't waste your time Tony as it's so obviously unsound that it's really not worth the effort to debunk it. No one with a education level past 5th grade who reads it is going to fall for his line of reasoning about the gentiles or nations. He uses all types of twisted logic and in his attempt to justify his self-admiration of being Jewish. 

George

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 01:00:56 AM »
Lieberman, as someone born a Jew, you should be ashamed of yourself. I'm sure your people look at you as a traitor to the kingdom. You should be proud of your people, instead you are a puppet for those who attempt to wrongly replace your heritage with themselves.

Matt. 27:3
"Then Judas, who delivered him up, seeing that he had been condemned, filled with remorse, returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders," DT

In the end, are you not like Judas to turn on your own people?


Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 01:16:26 AM »
Quote from: Lieberman
Don't waste your time Tony as it's so obviously unsound that it's really not worth the effort to debunk it.

I respectfully disagree, Lieberman.  While I disagree with Jewish Christian's doctrine, there are some interesting points that I would like to know what is Tony's perspective on these.  Maybe he can give us few points for further studying.  We are not asking for exhaustive study, through. 

   
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Lieberman

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2017, 03:11:12 AM »
Lieberman, as someone born a Jew, you should be ashamed of yourself. I'm sure your people look at you as a traitor to the kingdom.

Actually they don't, since most of my people are right here in this forum and are called children of God. We don't think political lies are justified for the good of the nation. We know lies are lies. We don't think politics will change the world, we don't think that Israel will have a messiah come to rule in Jerusalem, we don't think that the Muslims are more evil than anyone else, or that Trump is the new Savior of America. We are the children of truth, not political rhetoric. We follow Christ, not our own personal lineage, or the doctrines of Dr John Walvoord, or whatever flavor of the month comes up. We are actual people of the kingdom, rather than just repeat again and again that the Jews are. Jews are born of the spirit, not of the flesh. In that Spirit, we are all one people, no matter what nation we are from. Tony has explained this to you a hundred times.

Colossians 3:11-15
"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful".

Beside from those supporting race baiting, marching along side Nazi and white supremacists or silencing the truth, the Christians here are my people because we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We are the only holy nation, a united family all interested in the unadulterated truth, rather than left wing, right wing, white, black, Republican, Democrat, Dispensational or Amillennial, Antisemitic or Zionist rhetoric like you and others post. My people are Christ's people, not born after the flesh but after the spirit.

Matthew 1:21
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins".

All those who are his people, are my people. All those not his people, are not my people. I witness and mourn for them just as my brother and apostle Paul witnessed and mourned for them. He is included as my people also and he too received anger from those who think like you do. What you would call, his own people.


Quote
You should be proud of your people,

With few exceptions, I am. For God has blessed them with the spirit of truth to distinguish between bias and unbiased, truth and rhetoric, Jew and Gentile.

Granny

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2017, 04:39:38 AM »
With few exceptions, I am. For God has blessed them with the spirit of truth to distinguish between bias and unbiased, truth and rhetoric, Jew and Gentile.

 :God:Bl-U: And your people love you Lieberman.

Larry

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2017, 05:34:53 AM »
Everyone knows what the salvation of the Gentiles is, I see no reason to have to address one quack (excuse my language) who doesn't believe in Gentiles salvation. We've got bigger fish to fry, so to speak. That's like me saying I believe the Egyptians are the real Jews. Who's going to listen to me and who needs to go out and rebuke this? No one. This author is clearly an anomaly. Someone off the beaten path.




 


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