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Author Topic: The Salvation of the Gentiles  (Read 123 times)

Erik Diamond

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The Salvation of the Gentiles
« on: September 07, 2017, 03:51:30 PM »

Heb 11:11-12
[11]  Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
[12]  Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Rom 11:24
[24] For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Eph 2:12-14
[12]  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13]  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14]  For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

A Jewish Christian insisted that the Gentiles are heathens as I defined it, wasn't biblical because he believe that the Gentiles who God save are the ones who have Jewish Roots as result from the dispersion of Northern Ten Tribes of Israel that were mixed with the heathens.  He does not believe the heathen Gentiles can be part of Christian Churches unless they first have Jewish root.

I believe that God can save any heathens Gentiles regardless of their Jewish/roots/nations/background, etc. 

So who is right? And why?



"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Russell Lloyd

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 08:02:36 PM »

You should ask who told him that. Because it sure is not something he got from the bible. A Gentile is a Gentile (non-Jew), there are no upgrades or better versions of Gentiles. And God says unbelieving Jews are not Jews, so what does that make them? If this person doesn't accept the bible as the authority, it's impossible to defend doctrines with him.

Hammerle Labinowic

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 01:41:20 AM »

A Jewish Christian insisted that the Gentiles are heathens


Heathens are non Jews so no Christian can be a heathen because they are Jews.

Quote
he believe that the Gentiles who God save are the ones who have Jewish Roots as result from the dispersion of Northern Ten Tribes of Israel that were mixed with the heathen.

You can't mix Jew with heathen, once saved you are Jews in God's sight, not heathen. As for the ten northern tribes, I suggest you give him a copy of Tony's Study:

 The 10 Lost Tribes of Israel

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/the_lost_tribes_of_israel.shtml


Quote
He does not believe the heathen Gentiles can be part of Christian Churches unless they first have Jewish root.

The Root is Christ, the source and Seed of all who are Israel. If they have Christ, they are Jews and heirs according to all the promises to Israel.


Quote
I believe that God can save any heathens Gentiles regardless of their Jewish/roots/nations/background, etc. 

So who is right? And why?

Romans 11:18

Robert Powell

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 07:08:01 AM »
You can't mix Jew with heathen, once saved you are Jews in God's sight, not heathen. As for the ten northern tribes, I suggest you give him a copy of Tony's Study:

 The 10 Lost Tribes of Israel

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/the_lost_tribes_of_israel.shtml

 :amen:  Required Reading! 

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 11:17:17 AM »
Thank you guys. I forgot about Tony's study on lost tribes of Israel.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2017, 05:55:33 AM »
>>>
He does not believe the heathen Gentiles can be part of Christian Churches unless they first have Jewish root.
<<<

They "do" have Jewish root, in Christ Jesus.  Anyone, any heathen born of God has Jewish root in Christ Jesus and the sure mercies of David, which is the reason God says we are all Jews of the commonwealth of Israel and heirs according to the promises. Not by flesh, but by being in Christ.

Revelation 22:16
  • "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

He is the Root that makes us Jews. This word Root is the same word as in Romans 11:18. Christ is that root of the Olive Tree that we are grafted into, assuring we are not only chosen sons of God, and heirs of the inheritance of sons, but are nourished by Him.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #6 on: Today at 01:04:06 PM »
Quote from: Tony Warren
They "do" have Jewish root, in Christ Jesus.  Anyone, any heathen born of God has Jewish root in Christ Jesus and the sure mercies of David, which is the reason God says we are all Jews of the commonwealth of Israel and heirs according to the promises. Not by flesh, but by being in Christ.

A Jewish Christian I talked about still does not believe Jewish root in Christ Jesus. He insisted that Gentiles is not a correct meaning of Hebrew word, GUYM. He said that it only concerns the descendants of Abraham scattered all over the world.  Not non-Israel "Gentiles." He advised that we would give up our "Roman roots" and cling to our "kinsman redeemer rather than false Greco-Roman universal Redeemer. I felt his position is confusion.

I like to give you the opportunity to read the article He asked me to read here here.  I never heard such hatred against "non-Jews" Gentiles like this from someone who claim to be Jewish-Christian before.   
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Tony Warren

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #7 on: Today at 01:15:46 PM »
>>>
I like to give you the opportunity to read the article He asked me to read here here.  I never heard such hatred against "non-Jews" Gentiles like this from someone who claim to be Jewish-Christian before.
<<<

Hi, I'm off to do something else now, but I will check it out maybe tomorrow or Sunday. But my sense is that it's the same old genealogical pride in justifications/rationalizations.  But will try to have an open mind.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #8 on: Today at 01:34:11 PM »
Thank you Tony. Looking forward to hear your perspective on this. I, too, tried to have open mind but something still bothered me about his doctrine.  I do not think Christ is saving "Gentiles" based on DNA (ie. Jewish-root/descendant of Abraham/Northern Ten Tribes of Israel).
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Lieberman

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Re: The Salvation of the Gentiles
« Reply #9 on: Today at 06:48:54 PM »
I will check it out maybe tomorrow or Sunday. But my sense is that it's the same old genealogical pride in justifications/rationalizations. 

 :iagree: That's exactly what it is.  Don't waste your time Tony as it's so obviously unsound that it's really not worth the effort to debunk it. No one with a education level past 5th grade who reads it is going to fall for his line of reasoning about the gentiles or nations. He uses all types of twisted logic and in his attempt to justify his self-admiration of being Jewish. 

 


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