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Author Topic: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology  (Read 347 times)

George

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2017, 02:04:11 AM »

So the millions and millions of Christians who believe the prophesy of the Jews and their homeland are all wrong, and a few forum participants are right?  ::)

I do not believe that this is true, and neither should anyone else. We follow the literal approach to understanding scripture, the historical-grammatical method of biblical interpretation which the church has practiced since Jesus. Christian Zionism is nothing more than an extension of these true Bible beliefs.

Rick Reeves

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 07:26:34 PM »
We follow the literal approach to understanding scripture, the historical-grammatical method of biblical interpretation which the church has practiced since Jesus. Christian Zionism is nothing more than an extension of these true Bible beliefs.

However, it is self-evident that you cannot take everything literally, and not even most things. Christ certainly didn't.  So...

Dan

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 09:14:00 PM »

Well, we believe in Christian Zionism. You guys quote gotquestions.org as a biblical reference for questions all the time, so here is what "they" say about dispensationalismm


  • Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible as the best hermeneutic. The literal interpretation gives each word the meaning it would commonly have in everyday usage. Allowances are made for symbols, figures of speech, and types, of course. It is understood that even symbols and figurative sayings have literal meanings behind them. So, for example, when the Bible speaks of “a thousand years” in Revelation 20, dispensationalists interpret it as a literal period of 1,000 years (the dispensation of the Kingdom), since there is no compelling reason to interpret it otherwise.

    There are at least two reasons why literalism is the best way to view Scripture. First, philosophically, the purpose of language itself requires that we interpret words literally. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning. The second reason is biblical. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method. If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.” Sadly, this is already the case in much of what is called Bible study today.

    from: https://www.gotquestions.org/dispensationalism.html

So what do you do now, claim gotquestionsorg is not biblical? 

Melanie

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2017, 03:06:46 AM »
Is that all you have?
Dan, George and others, when are you going to produce actual Scriptures defending your doctrines instead of other people's views of our doctrine?

Tony Warren

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2017, 08:49:23 AM »
>>>
Well, we believe in Christian Zionism.
<<<

Obviously, it's called church tradition. But the pertinent question is, is this doctrine really Biblical or is it a facade and pretense built upon misapplied Scriptures and suppositions? Or to put it another way, why is the true gospel hid from some and not from others? How do we actually determine what is the Israel of God? By "honestly" receiving what God very plainly says in His word, or by a selective, chaotic, deceitful, careless or sloppy handling of the relevant Scriptures? Is it really as simple as handling the Scriptures honestly?

2nd Corinthians 4:2-3
  • "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
  • But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:"

Political and permissive philosophies notweithstanding, is it really as simple as handling the word of God Honestly in receiving from the heart what God actually says?


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You guys quote gotquestions.org as a biblical reference for questions all the time,
<<<

I don't, I find it moree preferable to quote Scripture to answer questions of Christian legalities, prophesies and doctrines. That way, the faithful Christian "should" know of a certainty that it is God speaking, rather than men.

Matthew 15:3
  • "But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

What is the difference between what Christ said to these Judaizers, and the Dispensationalists who transgress God's laws in order to hold on to their church traditions? God says the children of the flesh are not the children of God, and in essence their retort is that our tradition says different and we believe that. Is it not then... "fill ye up the measure of your fathers?"


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...so here is what "they" say about dispensationalismm
Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible as the best hermeneutic. The literal interpretation gives each word the meaning it would commonly have in everyday usage. Allowances are made for symbols, figures of speech, and types, of course.
<<<

As always, I reiterate, I'm more interested in what "THE BIBLE" says about doctrines like Dispensationalism. So then, what does that quote mean? That Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation except when they personally/privately decide it can't be a literal interpretation? In reality, that puts the onus, responsibility and burden on themselves as the decision maker of how to and when to interpret, rather than God. I for one would never want to be put in that position. When it comes to God's word, better to let God's (inerrant) word interpret itself. Exhibit A:

Ams 9:11-15
  • "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
  • That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.
  • Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
  • And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
  • And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."

This all may appear to be a very literal prophesy, but a scholarly study of Scripture would reveal God's word declares this all fulfilled by the death and resurrection of Christ, which your sect rejects as fulfilled because it contradicts their personal/private interpretations of "bringing back the captivity" of the people of Israel. Nevertheless, God's word is clear on the matter:

Acts 15:124-16
  • "Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
  • And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
  • Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
  • And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
  • After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
  • That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

Dispensationalism notwithstanding, God word says this pertained to the New Covenant church and it has been fulfilled. Yet these truths are heavily redacted in the writings of Dispensationalism because it doesn't fit the Dispensationalist mantra of a literal earthly restoration, rebuilding, freeing of captivity, rebuilding of the tabernacle, or the Jews returning to the Lord. That is to say, Jews under their personal definition of Jews, not God's.


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It is understood that even symbols and figurative sayings have literal meanings behind them.
<<<

Translation, even figures and symbols are literal? Would that mean that when Christ called Peter Satan, it had a very literal meaning that Peter was Satan? Or when the prophesy of Christ coming to go inside the Prison houses and set prisioners free, it had a very literal meaning behind it that He must? That thinking makes no sense. The stars the size of the Sun would very literally have to fall to the earth, and there would be nothing left. The moon would very lliterally have to turn to blood and that Christ would very literally have to be wrong about John the Baptist, because Elijah must very literally be Elijah in order for the prophesy of Elijah coming before Him (Malachi 4:5) to be fulfilled. On the other hand, maybe Christ is correct and this church simply doesn't have the ear to receive His words concerning this.

Matthew 11:13-15
  • "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
  • And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
  • He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Christ says John the Baptist is the Elijah that was prophesied to come before Him, so clearly it is just that those looking to receive these things very literally (as the Judaizers) or in a strictly literal interpretive methodology, will miss it, having not ears to "received" His word. Those not having the inclination or Spirit to interpret God's word "by" God's Word.


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So, for example, when the Bible speaks of “a thousand years” in Revelation 20, dispensationalists interpret it as a literal period of 1,000 years (the dispensation of the Kingdom), since there is no compelling reason to interpret it otherwise.
<<<

Which only proves it is not to be taken literally because the dispensation of the Kingdom started with John's announcement of the coming Christ and was realized in His life, death and resurrection.

Luke 16:16
  • "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

When Christ Christ bound Satan so that He might spoil his house and build again His church/assembly as the chief corner stone of it, that began the dispensation of His kingdom. That is the restoration, the rebuilding, with the corner Stone and Temple that the Jews rejected and destroyed. Far from proving it is literally 1000 years and happening in the future, the dispensation of the kingdom of God disproves this theory and illustrates the Millennial reign of Christ started at the cross and ends when the nations are secured and Satan loosed.

Revelation 12:10
  • "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Your submitted article says Dispensationalists believe there is no compelling reason to believe the 1000 years (The dispensation of the kingdom) is other than that future coming and literal reign. That's a very fascinating statement. For what constrains them from believing the truth of what is written? True, it is obvious that nothing compels them to believe other than what they have been taught (as most of the nation of Israel), but the pertinent and unpalatable question is, why? Why are they not compelled by the Spirit to receive the truth--that is the question. For God is sovereign and He has plainly declared that His sheep hear His voice. The reason is because they are compelled to hear it by the Spirit of truth. Surely we have all met people who don't really want the TRUTH, and who merely want self-justification. That's the natural man. Ergo they want to be told what they believe is true.

The retort is usually, why didn't God say plainly the 1000 years are not literal, or why not just say that Satan was bound at the cross, or why not just say that Christ has returned the captivity, or say plainly that Jesus was God? For then there would be no reason to doubt--or would there?

John 10:24-31
  • "Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
  • Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
  • But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
  • My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
  • And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
  • My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
  • I and my Father are one.
  • Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."

The reason is unbelief. So perhaps the problem with man is that he thinks he can save everyone, even when he fully knows that he can't save anyone. God is on the throne. If god intends for Dispensationalists to be compelled to believe the truth, they would be and would have been. Just as the nation of Israel would be "IF" that were God's magnificent salvation plan. To one, there is no Spirit breathed compelling reason to interpret Satan bound at the cross or the 1000 years other than how they personally believe, but to another, the many reasons are as compelling as the kingdom of Christ they have been translated into. It's all in God's hands. Jacob or Esau, it's not our choice, merely our witness. I'm not attempting to convert anyone, merely to bear witness to the truth. God will do the conversion "if" it is His will.


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There are at least two reasons why literalism is the best way to view Scripture.
<<<

Actually, there are a thousand reasons that God being the interpreter of His own word is the best way. Both literally and figuratively. Since He authored it, He is the only one truly qualified to interpret what "He" meant by it.

John 16:13
  • "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

This Spirit will not show you things that are untrue, He will show you things that are declared within God's unadulterated word, not things surmised and supposed and imagined by men. One thing is for sure, the Spirit of Truth is not going to tell you that the Lord's church is not Jews, that they are not the children of God counted for the seed, that they are not New Covenant/Testament Israel and part of that one body, one Olive Tree, one nation that God is king and governor of.  So then, the obvious question is, what spirit is telling people that? What spirit would tell Christians don't listen to God's word telling you that you are Jews if you are of the promise, rather defer to our traditional rule of literalism.

Galatians 3:28-29
  • "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
  • And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

What spirit indeed. The Spirit of truth or the spirit of unbelief?


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First, philosophically, the purpose of language itself requires that we interpret words literally. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning.
<<<

This would be great if we were having a philosophical discussions about the idioms of the indigenous first nations tribes, or the South American Mapuch tribes, but we're not. We're talking about the God authored prophesies very obviously obscured so that seeing, many would not see, and hearing many would not hear. We're not talking about how the Native Americans would understand a temple, but How God intends His people to understand it. We're not talking about how Webster's dictionary would define Lions, Jerusalem, Sheep, Swords, Dragons, Fig Trees or Serpents, but how God intends His People to understand them. But they are right about one thing. Words "indeed are" vessels of meaning. And the question is not, what does man mean by them, but what does God mean by these vessels.

John 2:19-20
  • "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
  • Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?"

A vivid example of what man "thinks" God means by His use of common language versus what God actually means by using the term. i.e., interpretations by man versus by God Himself.


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The second reason is biblical. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament.
<<<

I don't recall Mary giving birth to a Literal Lion, nor do I recall His disciples looking upon Him as a literal Branch. These are all things that were prophesied about the coming Christ. No valleys were literally exalted and no hills or mountains were very literally made low. So this rule and philosophy of a very literal approach to prophecy will not stand up when compared carefully with Scripture. Unless you are only going to quote the prophesies that agree with the suppositions and ignore all the ones that don't. The Prophesy said Elijah must come before the Christ, but Christ clearly said that prophesy was fulfilled and that Elijah did come first, and His name was John the Baptist. So again, no prophesy is of any personal or private interpretation, it is always as God defines it. Always.

Genesis 22:13
  • "And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son."

By this prophesy, the sons of Abraham are spared, and in our stead a substitute sacrifice is provided by God very clearly pointing to a very Spiritual fulfillment in Christ Jesus. Selah.


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If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit.
<<<

How ironic that we feel that is exactly how Dispensationalists generally interpret Scripture. Wild interpretations about the number 666, about political nations and kingdoms, about who is the antichrist and all sorts of sundry personal and private interpretations as the ministers see fit. The "Truth" is, with your methodology, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. It is only by allowing the Scriptures to interpret themselves, God defining how His word should be understood, that is the only objective standard by which honest people can understand the Bible. Once again:

Genesis 40:8
  • "And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."
Genesis 41:16
  • "And Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, It is not in me: God shall give Pharaoh an answer of peace."

As brother Joseph said, so we bear witness to this most precious of truths, it is not in us, God will give the understanding. It will be through His own word illustrating it is "His interpretation." In other words, God reveals it by the words that He authored, not by the the imaginations of man's understanding of common languages. Revelation is by God's word through God's Spirit revealing its truth.

1st John 4:6
  • "We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

There is your objective standard by which to understand the Bible. It is by the Bible, through the Spirit of truth. A Spirit that doesn't agree with that which is not truth, a Spirit which all God's people have. What says Scripture? We are of God. He that knows God, hears us. He that is not of God will not hear us. Hereby we know the spirit of truth versus the spirit of error. Those are God's words, not mine.


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Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.” Sadly, this is already the case in much of what is called Bible study today.
<<<

Isn't that what you are doing? Saying I know Christ says He has already established His Kingdom, but what it says to me is that he has another for only the Jews of the flesh, and he'll establish that one when He returns to actually set up His kingdom (as if He hasn't already, as the Scribes and Pharisees and many Jewsih people believe). To also believe He will reign on this sin cursed earth 1000 literal years in the middle east? For what purpose? The Bible never said that and so that is exactly what you are doing. You've violated your own rule, since what the Bible said is that Christ has established His Kingdom, He (and we) do reign in that kingdom now (Revelation 1:9), His kingdom is not of this earth, the kingdom of God doesn't come in a way where you can observe it, His people have been set free from captivity, and on and on. These are things the Bible does say, and are fulfilled prophesies. It was Old Testament Israel that allowed Biblical interpretation to devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of what "the Bible says." And the Dispensationalists have followed in their footsteps almost exactly. As said the preacher, There is nothing new under the Sun.

Amos 9:14
  • "And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them."


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So what do you do now, claim gotquestionsorg is not biblical?
<<<

We deal in doctrines. We claim Dispensational doctrine and Christian Zionist doctrines are not biblical. We teach against these false doctrines, and that is enough. We don't get our interpretations from man's written word, but from God's word. ...that's what we do.


"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Dan

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2017, 02:17:31 AM »
Tony, why do you always have to answer my posts. I would like it if I could discuss these things with other people who don't have your bias against Christian Zionism. Please let other Christians talk once in a while. You monopolize the whole forum.

George

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2017, 08:28:39 AM »
 :ditto:  I second that. I want to hear opinions from other Christians here. I'm pretty sure you don't all agree or all disagree. many Reformed Christians preach that the Jews will return to their land and it is prophesied, so I know you don't all agree with this one small view.

Russell Lloyd

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2017, 08:17:25 PM »
Tony, why do you always have to answer my posts.

Maybe because he's the only one with the patience to deal with right wing evangelical political fanatics who don't take the bible seriously.


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I would like it if I could discuss these things with other people who don't have your bias against Christian Zionism.

If you want to be justified in your false teachings, you might try a Dispensationalist forum. God's word is not biased, it's perfectly righteous and balanced according to truth.


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Please let other Christians talk once in a while.

How do you like my talk?


Stephanie

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2017, 02:05:49 AM »
I'd like to hear other people's opinions also, if only to see what other people are thinking about The Jews returning to their nation. As it stands, I only know what Tony and Melanie thinks. What about the rest of you.

My view is that I'm not sure.

Wayne

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2017, 03:14:09 AM »
My opinion doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, but here's an interesting read. Some of it to be taken with a grain of salt, but most factual and on point.

http://www.christianzionism.org/article/wagner04.asp

Robert Powell

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2017, 11:43:46 AM »
Tony, why do you always have to answer my posts. I would like it if I could discuss these things with other people who don't have your bias against Christian Zionism.

It's not bias, it's just a statement of the clear facts of Scripture, which Christian Zionists and their apologists just completely ignore. The facts of scripture. None of you have argued one single thing from scripture, but you continue to deny the scriptures. One you must deny is that the old Covenant with Israel is done away with, so how can you continue to build a house of sand on the Old Covenant.



Our View of Israel

by
reviewed by Gary Roest
January 18, 2011

For almost 100 years, until the founding of the state of Israel in 1948, Christian Zionists graciously endured the derision of mainline Protestants.

Christian Zionism can be traced historically to dispensationalism, a new system of interpreting the Scriptures fostered around 1840 in England by John Nelson Darby. This method of dividing the Scriptures into seven distinct “covenants,” or dispensations, resulted in the conclusion that the Jews remain “the apple of God’s eye.” Christian Zionists said that the Old Testament prophetic promises of a return to the land of Israel under the old covenant were unconditional and, although suspended for a time, must still be fulfilled.

In 1948, with the prophecies about national restoration realized, dispensationalists felt exuberantly vindicated, and their movement grew in confidence and number.

From a Reformed perspective, there are two significant problems with Christian Zionism: the theological foundations supporting it and the practical political implications that flow from it.
There is a serious flaw in dispensational theology. Everyone agrees there are at least two dispensations by which God has dealt with his people. They also agree that each of them is defined by a specific covenant.

Under the Old Covenant, Israel was defined by race, geographic boundaries, social and political contracts (the Law of Moses and the monarchy of David), and a religious “cult” including an exclusive temple, priesthood, and sacrificial system. God’s people were limited to the children of Jacob and those who became Jews by conversion and marriage.

The old covenant necessarily created barriers and hostility between Israel and other nations, between the circumcised and the uncircumcised.

The New Covenant in Christ necessarily brought with it a new dispensation by which God’s people are defined and governed. The New Testament explains how this new administration differs from the old and is superior to it. Basic to that argument is the premise that the new covenant is founded on promises made to Abraham by faith instead of on legal obligations defined by Moses.

Dispensationalists often vilify the Reformed view of the two covenants as “replacement theology” that has encouraged a long history of anti-Semitism. However, it’s actually incorrect to say that we teach the church has “replaced” Israel. The Reformed biblical view is that of “inclusion theology.” Paul, referring to himself as the administrator of the new dispensation, affirms that in Christ Jew and Gentile have been reconciled both to God and to each other (Eph. 2:11-22). What God has joined together, we may no longer separate.

Scripture clearly states that the new covenant has made the old obsolete; the old covenant may no longer be used to define how God relates to his people and the rest of the world
(Heb. 10:9). One must choose one or the other of the two economies. Yet the Christian Zionist tries to have it both ways by teaching that God actually has two distinct peoples: the Church as Christ’s heavenly bride, and the Jews as God’s earthly possession, with a different destiny for each.

This faulty theology leads to a pragmatic political problem. With the establishment of the state of Israel, dispensationalists believe that both new and old covenants are now in play at the same time. Thus, they believe, the wrath of God falls on anyone who advocates any foreign policy prohibiting Israel’s acquisition of all the land promised under the old dispensation. In this understanding, the Palestinians are once again Canaanites. Such are the contradictions inherent in trying to live under two mutually exclusive covenants.

While we can appreciate and emulate the Christian Zionist’s love for the Jewish people and support their right to exist as a nation, we cannot force God to act on the basis of a covenant that long ago served its purpose in leading humankind to Christ. When the building is complete, the scaffolding must come down.

for discussion
What was your position on Christian Zionism before reading this article? After?
What insight does this article offer regarding the current situation between Israel and Palestine?
What other old covenant laws have been fulfilled in Christ and are no longer applicable to us today as they were in the old covenant?
What other theologies affect the political realities in the world today?

https://thebanner.org/departments/2011/01/our-view-of-israel

About the Author

Rev. Gary Roest is pastor of Ocean View Christian Reformed Church, Norfolk, Va.

Drew

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2017, 11:53:19 PM »
I want to hear opinions from other Christians here. I'm pretty sure you don't all agree or all disagree. many Reformed Christians preach that the Jews will return to their land and it is prophesied, so I know you don't all agree with this one small view.

I believe that the Jews returning to their land is Biblical prophesy, and so does many of my reformed church friends.

Tony Warren

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2017, 06:11:25 AM »
>>>
Tony, why do you always have to answer my posts.
<<<

Dan,
  When no one else is defending the truth as you submit your false doctrines, ...I'm afraid so. When one loves God, silence is not an option.

Isaiah 62:6
  • "I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,"


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I would like it if I could discuss these things with other people who don't have your bias against Christian Zionism.
<<<

It's a free forum (some think too free), I'm preventing no one from discussing any of your posts with you. I guess they "choose" not to.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2017, 04:57:07 AM »
>>>
Tony, why do you always have to answer my posts.
<<<

Dan,
  When no one else is defending the truth as you submit your false doctrines, ...I'm afraid so. When one loves God, silence is not an option.

Isaiah 62:6
  • "I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,"


The church is under attack and there are not a lot of watchmen left in the world today, are there?  :'(

Puritan Heart

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  • Posts: 289
Re: Is Christian Zionism a Biblical Theology
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 06:44:37 AM »
>>>
Tony, why do you always have to answer my posts.
<<<

Dan,
  When no one else is defending the truth as you submit your false doctrines, ...I'm afraid so. When one loves God, silence is not an option.

Isaiah 62:6
  • "I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,"


The church is under attack and there are not a lot of watchmen left in the world today, are there?  :'(

Ezekiel 34 v 1; And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5 And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

8 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God.

16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

I am fully persuaded that the extent of the deceit and delusion of the times in which we live can only be partially discerned and discovered and this begins through constant self examinination.  Where there is no fruit of the Holy Spirit, there simply cannot be the Life of Christ.


These are indeed very dark days in which we live ... much darker than most perceive ... and we must thus be most grateful for men of God the likes of Tony !!

Alexandra
Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

 


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