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Author Topic: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia  (Read 1013 times)

Reformer

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2017, 05:15:16 PM »
More Republicans Join Charlottesville Chorus
George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush, Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham released statements
on Wednesday addressing the Charlottesville events and rhetoric that has followed.





Stan Pat

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2017, 06:13:29 PM »
Oh No! the Charlottesville conspiracy goes all the way to the top with both the Presidents Bush involved.  Wait a minute. ...is that "Fake News?" :P

I make fun, but it's not a laughing matter. The delusion in the church is real. And it goes deeper than just believing lies, accepting false doctrines and tongue speaking. The mind of these conspiracy theorists is not right.

I Cor. 2:16
"For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."


Margaret

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2017, 09:45:54 PM »
I agree the conspiracy theory was (shall we say) eccentric. But let's not be cruel and let's have compassion when disagreeing.

Diane Moody

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2017, 12:12:39 AM »
I agree the conspiracy theory was (shall we say) eccentric.

That's certainly being charitable  :God:Bl-U:


Quote
But let's not be cruel and let's have compassion when disagreeing.

That's a  :Goodpoint:  But I also understand the frustration of dealing with irrational people when it comes to politics. So while I understand your point (I do),  I sympathize with their frustration at having to deal with wild ideas that liberals organized and conspired with the hate groups in Charlottesville.  :o  :o  :o  :o  Is that not propaganda? How about an Amen!

Not one word from Alexander asking aquatic for facts, just an Amen against Lieberman, who as a Jewish person has to deal with these Nazis marching. I can understand how that is seen as an insult and selective bias and frustrating to many Christians. There's two sides to every coin.


Margaret

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2017, 01:02:33 AM »

Understood.

Kenneth White

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2017, 04:07:46 AM »
I sympathize with their frustration at having to deal with wild ideas that liberals organized and conspired with the hate groups in Charlottesville.  :o  :o  :o  :o  Is that not propaganda? How about an Amen!

Yes it is. But I save my Amens for agreeing with Scripture :)
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Puritan Heart

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2017, 06:29:19 AM »
Hello Melanie,

I will try to clarify.

1 Peter 3 v 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:


Propaganda Etymology; *Italian, from modern Latin congregatio de propaganda fide ‘congregation for propagation of the faith’*

Propaganda is that tool utilised by an individual or group with the primary intent being to cause maximum damage to their opponent. By its own definition, I quote; *information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.*

Simply stated;  There is no good propaganda !

Any casual observer to some of the threads in this forum would see first hand, however unintelligently, just how effectively it is done and often times, with devastating results, not least of all to the perpetrators thereof.  Dolefully, they are usually the last to discover the depth of worldly decay which has so enveloped their attitudes.

For various reasons, I was unable to participate on the MR forum for some months but was delighted when Tony assisted and welcomed my return.  I had hoped to return to a family in Christ who, after all that has transpired over the past recent months, might have matured sufficiently to have earnestly sought God in self examination and on behalf of the nation and nations of the world and their leadership.

Romans 13 v 1; Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

I now try to express my convictions and please bear with me Melanie, it is not as short as you might have expected. 

Defying my habitual stance on not writing about politics on this forum, despite my keen awareness thereof, and leading to my agreement with aquatics use of the word propaganda, I had no doubt that I would be on the receiving end of acerbic commentary.  I was not disappointed !  Sadly but not surprisingly, it has become the benchmark in many of these threads, however, I purposely left my comment and with prior experience as my tutor,  rightly or wrongly expectant of the predictable retaliation, it materialised from the same *spiritual stalwarts ...* I wish I could say like bees to a honeypot .....

On this very site, people are banned for their offensive comments and rightly so, but is this not a serious indication and an indictment of the awful state to which we have allowed the world to infiltrate our hearts and minds ... ??

By mere means of the fact that Lieberman and Reformer, Stan Pat and others jumping on the proverbial bandwagon, chose to quote politicians of their personal preference the manner in which some did, flattering each others stance, fully aware of the volatility of the situation, they inferred their own propaganda firstly by condoning their political stance and secondly, added their rather detailed inflammatory comments of persons,  myself included.  This indicates to me absolute lack of any sacred wisdom and rather reflects grave spiritual immaturity and a serious breach of that to which we as saints of The Most High God have been called to, being functional children of the Kingdom of God, living in a fallen world.

When was politics given the exclusive right to be deliberated on outside of the domain of Christian ethics, which are distinctly laid out in the Written Word of God?

Whilst I do not believe in neutrality, precedence should ever be given to much prayerful wisdom in these types of discussions and the personal views we as Believers in Christ not only think, but dare to publish !!  I repeat; This is a public domain and when the world sees the church divided, to whom can we expect them to turn ?

What a shame we bring on the Cross of our Risen Lord and Saviour !! 

The church becomes an utter mockery and deservedly so, primarily because of those who self righteously hide behind the banner of *The Elect* and their pretentious knowledge ... displaying not one iota of Christlike humility to put aside their pride and arrogance for the sake of covering the sins of their fellow brothers and sisters on the opposite side of the divide.

These are SOULS !!! Souls for whom the same Jesus Christ some profess, whose obedience unto death and resurrection unto the Father reconciled us THROUGH HIS GRACE, these are the same Souls for whom the Body of Christ should be weeping !!!    SELAH !!!

We live in a fallen world ... a concept some people seemingly do not fully comprehend.  Without realising it, through their behaviour, they project for all and sundry to see exactly what it looks like in their pretentious commentaries quoting their *facts. * This is nothing more than self admiration and foolish vanity in the display of *their right* to promote personal opinion and I add, boldly infantile and lacking of any intellectual thought.  Simply put, they belch forth their own personal propaganda, superceding the Written Word of God.   

God created us with minds and that we can and should express ourselves is an essential, but best beware the attitudes and motivations and no less, choice of words !!  These threads more often than not quite simply die the death of a thousand qualifications and leave most readers more confounded that when they first arrived.

I resolutely believe that True Christianity should be represented as much as is possible within the nucleas framework of every cultural establishment in society, but only as far as is admissable and in line with the precepts of the written Word of God, and the very clear edicts stated therein.

Lifestyle is everything to the believer.  You really are known by your fruits ...

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

As followers of Jesus Christ and his teachings, we are called to be in the world but not of it.

John 17 v 16 [b]TThey are not of the world,[/b] even as I am not of the world.

... why then take on the mentality of the world ?

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;


What does our personal testimony of the Risen Lord and Saviour show ...??


21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
 
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25
O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.


Thus, our moral compass is not ever to be of our own volition and most certainly not be be gleaned from the world, but should ever be guided through the Word of God.
 

Galatians 6 v 1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.[/b][/i][/u]

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.


Does the Word of God not so clearly state what are to be the events of the end times ...?

NB If Paul could speak of himself as wretched man that I am, how much moreso not we ?

The life and fruitfulness of the soul, therefore, depend on its abiding in Christ.

John 15 v 1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.


I daresay this; if all these *spiritual stalwarts* were to present even their own eye witness accounts and their media *facts* in a court of law, they would be scorned !!  There is simply too much bias.


James 3 v 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Selah !!!

I furthermore wish to say that I categorically distance myself from any appearance of racial superiority or discrimination.  Herein I have expressed my honest convictions and I hold firm to them.


Alexandra


Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Reformer

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2017, 08:25:02 AM »
Hello Melanie,

I will try to clarify.

1 Peter 3 v 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I cut out the rest because after all those words,  and after telling Melanie you would answer her question about why you consider Lieberman's original post propaganda, you never actually answered the question. Instead, you introduce what theologians call a "red herring," obviously intended to misdirect or distract from her actual question. Here is her question

Quote
Puritan Heart, I do hope that you address this question because I'm sure a lot of people would like to know what moved you so strongly to label that particular post "propaganda" or more accurately confirming with an "Amen" that it was propaganda and not based on fact?

The question was how was his post propaganda? I would also add, why don't you think aquatic's posts and wild-eyed theories about the rally are propaganda? To be honest we didn't really expect an answer (as I'm sure you know), so we aren't really surprised you gave no answer. The truth is, the post had no propaganda in it. It was a declaration of what had happened in Virginia with these racists, and they were things that obviously you and aquatic didn't want to hear. People will do anything to cast doubts on the truth. The church did it to Jesus, it's no great thing if the church do it to us.


Quote
Defying my habitual stance on not writing about politics on this forum, despite my keen awareness thereof, and leading to my agreement with aquatics use of the word propaganda, I had no doubt that I would be on the receiving end of acerbic commentary.  I was not disappointed !

Well, when you imply to a Jewish person that his objection to nazi marching in America yelling "hail trump," is indulging in propaganda, what would you expect? Would you expect agreement on such a ridiculous statement? As a Christian not even Jewish, it offended me and it clearly offended most Christians. The alt-right rally offended President Bush and honest Republicans and ministers everywhere. I guess they are all indulging in propaganda. Instead of not being disappointed, You should be disappointed in yourself, not in our moral reaction. Look in the mirror sometime, honesty starts there.


Quote
By mere means of the fact that Lieberman and Reformer, Stan Pat and others jumping on the proverbial bandwagon, chose to quote politicians of their personal preference the manner in which they did, knowing full well the volatility of the situation, they inferred their own propaganda firstly by condoning their political stance and secondly, added their rather detailed inflammatory comments of persons,  myself included.

Your suggesting we shouldn't quote Republicans who disagree with aquatic's beliefs? Because that sure sounds like what you are saying. Quoting President Bush speaking against the evil of this rally and the rhetoric it produced is an evil thing? By what criteria? And you wonder why so many (as you say) jump on the bandwagon? It's not a bandwagon, it's a moral compass. It's because of statements by you and aquatic like the one you just made. You ask us for facts, we give them to you, and you ignore them and think you should decide which Republicans we should be quoting? Are you kidding? Do I tell you who to quote? Then you don't want us to reply to your comments because that constitutes piling on? Our sense of morality, honesty and justice demands that we not stay silent when such comments are made.


Quote
When was politics given the exclusive right to be deliberated on outside of the domain of Christian ethics, which are distinctly laid out in the Written Word of God?

2Co 8:21
Providing for honest things, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of men.

Christian ethics include honesty and showing no respect of persons, and as God's children having the spirit of truth to receive truth.  Not fight against it.

2Co 13:7
Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

Do you think you've been honest about the wickedness of those marching in Virginia, or have been dishonest with the faithful Christians opposing such behavior here?

Php 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.a

1Ti 2:2
For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

1Pe 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.


Quote
Whilst I do not believe in neutrality, precedence should ever be given to much prayerful wisdom in these types of discussions and the personal views we as Believers in Christ not only think, but dare to publish !!

Interesting that though this thread is about the hate rally in Virginia, neither you, aquatic, Fred or Bram has one word of condemnation of the hate groups, nor it seems any compassion for the woman that was killed by one of them, just a whole lot of complaining about propaganda and the good Christians here who do sympathize. Does that not say so much, without saying anything? No good Samaritan providing healing here, just someone pouring salt into the wounds.

As Christ asked, which one was doing the will of God?


Quote
when the world sees the church divided, to whom can we expect them to turn ?

The world has already turned to Satan, it's vulnerable Christians of the church I am concerned about.
I'm more concerned that professing Christians who blind themselves to the truth for the sake of any group is more a danger to the body than hurting someone's feelings by telling the truth.


Quote
The church becomes an utter mockery and deservedly so, primarily because of those who self righteously hide behind the banner of *The Elect* and their pretentious knowledge

No, it's become a mockery because of its lies, hypocrisy, pride, injustice and unfaithfulness. Those who ignore the word are always those most vocal about unity (roman catholicism, liberal congregations, the alt-right) while sewing seeds of disunity by their selective and pious beliefs of who is righteous.


Quote
We live in a fallen world ... a concept some people seemingly do not fully comprehend.

Has nothing to do with you nor aquatic's disdain for Lieberman's original post. Apples and oranges.


Quote
Simply put, they belch forth their own personal propaganda, superceding the Written Word of God.   

I'm not sure whether you mean me, Lieberman, both of us, or all of us who support truth, but I'm sure you say it with as much conviction as Lieberman did. What supersedes the word of God is marching with Nazi and their ilk.    And that's not propaganda, it's truth.


Quote
God created us with minds and that we can and should express ourselves is an essential, but best beware the attitudes and motivations and no less, choice of words !!

Correct. Words like propaganda are incendiary, and you should have expected as much heat as you got, and deserved.


Quote
I daresay this; if all these *spiritual stalwarts* were to present even their own eye witness accounts and their media *facts* in a court of law, they would be scorned !!  There is simply too much bias.

I will place my facts up against you and aquatic's "Propaganda" any day of the week in a court of law or before God and then we will see which truly has more substance. Your conspiracy theories or my eyes and ears and the spirit of truth. It is this truly irrational blindness and attitudes that are the real reason the church is in decay. The pride of denial, the blindness to truth and the applying honesty selectively according to people's own will.


Rich Aikers

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2017, 12:13:50 PM »
 &TY  PS Not jumping on the bandwagon Alexandra, just agreeing with Reformer just like you agreed with aquatic. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. You can't have one rule for yourself and another for everyone else.

Fred

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2017, 01:44:17 PM »
Lie-berman was speaking propaganda. He doesn't like Trump because Trump is for the white man and does not accept this modern day race mixing philosophy. Just as Mexicans should stay in their own country, so also Jews have a country of their own, why are they still coming here in droves? Do we really need more arabs here, don't we have enough problems with dark skinned people. While most of you condemn us for seeing through your propaganda and fake news stories, Aquatic, Bram, George, Me, John and Alexandra are the few Christians here who understand the plight of white people in the world today and the insidious nature of the conspiracy of the immoral liberal left to replace us and bring down President Trump.

It's a proven fact that the violence was instigated by liberal carpetbagging trouble makers from the north. As for the marchers, yes the "Americans" who were peacefully chanting had every right to march, had a license and had the right. Like it or not they had every right to blame the Jews because they are at the forefront of this movement to remove confederate icons from this country. Aquatic and Alexander are right in everything they have said on this board. We only want what has been taken away from them. Our ability to be white and proud. After all, this is America. So the marchers had every right to be Nazi, to be of the alt-right culture, to be white nationalists or to be white supremacists or whatever you want to call them. They have every right to stand up for white America as patriots for centuries have. They have the God given right to carry torches or to burn crosses or to blame Jews or hate negroes or to separate and become a confederacy again. This is America, not China. You can't control what people are thinking. You can ban us, you can try to silence us, you can try and shame us, but as John said about the patriots attacked by Federal officers, that only serves to make us stronger.

Just because no one speaks up about this mob liberal mentality doesn't mean no one is out here lurking who agrees with these two ladies. I think many do.

We can chant what we want. Your conspiracy won't stop this movement by those of us who support Trump and his common sense approach to special interest groups will not succeed.


Kenneth White

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2017, 07:31:09 PM »
I think differently from most of you. I am actually glad that the good Christians of this forum get to see the truth behind the "Unite the White" rally that was held in Virginia, and more importantly, just the type of hidden Christian who supports these types of far right justifications that have been secretly lurking in this forum. Because as Reformer already posted, this is really not Christianity at all, it's deep dark delusion. Like the people of Israel thinking they were doing God's will by killing Christ, this is the same warped mentality thinking they were doing the righteous thing. And we all better "make personal judgment" about that before we are sitting with them in their delusion.

II Peter 1:10
"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."

But briefly, on a political note, this is what happens to a country when it elect a man President that is not only unqualified, but child-like and dangerously emotional. But it is also true that God is sovereign and ultimately in charge, and so we know that evil will not triumph. People may die and Christians may be spoken evil against and railed against, but evil will not triumph.  Though bigotry hide behind a cross and attempt to cover themselves in white pride and Patriotism, God is not fooled.

Heb 4:12-13
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do".

My fellow God fearing brethren and sisters. Do not be frustrated by a few close minded Christians who call evil good and good evil, they will be dealt with by God in due time. Pray for our President and all our leaders, and teach your children the truth of the political church and of scripture. The rest will sort itself out. Do not be dragged down to the level of these pretenders by frustration at their blindness. if God wanted them to see, they would open their eyes. That's truth.

Let's move on to other more fruitful subjects.

Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

Rich Aikers

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2017, 09:02:16 PM »
Do not be dragged down to the level of these pretenders by frustration at their blindness. If God wanted them to see, they would open their eyes. That's truth.

Let's move on to other more fruitful subjects.

 :amen:

Sojourner

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2017, 07:52:03 AM »
 :ditto:

Melanie

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2017, 08:47:24 AM »
Hello Melanie,

I will try to clarify.

Defying my habitual stance on not writing about politics on this forum, despite my keen awareness thereof, and leading to my agreement with aquatics use of the word propaganda,
Alexandra

 I disagree, but I don't think it fruitful or beneficial to anyone to go into this deeper.  Thanks for your reply.

Theo

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Re: The 'Unite the Right' Rally in Virginia
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2017, 10:30:51 AM »
Hello Melanie,

Simply stated;  There is no good propaganda !

Alexandra

Actually, we spread good propaganda leaflets in WWII to help the citizens see the truth and avoid accidents and educate the people on what was happening, which was good propaganda. Also, here's a little history lesson for all about what propaganda really is.

https://www.historians.org/about-aha-and-membership/aha-history-and-archives/gi-roundtable-series/pamphlets/what-is-propaganda/defining-propaganda-i



 


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