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Author Topic: Gun Toting Ministers?  (Read 3662 times)

Reformer

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2017, 10:01:55 AM »
God, Guns, Trump

 :S_Confused: In my best Sesame Street singing voice:

"one of these things is not like the other,
   one of these things just doesn't belong..."


A shame some people will never get it because they are very much "yet carnal".

Rich Aikers

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2017, 11:51:05 AM »
God, Guns, Trump

 :S_Confused: In my best Sesame Street singing voice:

"one of these things is not like the other,
   one of these things just doesn't belong..."

 :iagree:  God, Guns and Trump? Blasphemy!

Terrell Meyer

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2017, 11:25:27 AM »
God, Guns, Trump

 :S_Confused: In my best Sesame Street singing voice:

"one of these things is not like the other,
   one of these things just doesn't belong..."


 :smileyBounce:  :smileyBounce:    LOL    :smileyBounce:  :smileyBounce:

Erik Diamond

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2017, 07:22:26 PM »

Neh 4:13
[13]  Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows.


With the recent event with church shootings, many people believe that the church should be armed with guns. One pastor I debated with suggested that  Nehemiah 4:13 proves that we are allowed to have gun to protect family and church. I disagreed because the context is about protecting the builders of Jerusalem after return back from Babylon.  What is your thought on why people are trying to justify bearing arms with Old Testament verse that really have nothing to do with the New Testament church of today?
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Reformer

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2017, 04:36:43 AM »
Ne 4:13
Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows.

This is another sterling example of the stupidity of today's ministers who take scripture and misuse it to support whatever notions that they can come up with. Or for you politically correct Christians, it shows how today's ministers are "without wisdom" when it comes to adjudicating and judging scriptures. With that type of careless handling of scripture they can justify anything. In fact this reminds me of Christians saying we can kill women and children in war because God told Israel that when they conquered a city to spare not the women and children. It's that non-spiritual type of right wing thinking concerning man's view of righteousness that the Scribes and Pharisees held and fueled their self-righteous justification in having Christ Killed. God never intended that Scripture to be used that way of course, but ministers today will use and justify any action they want by scriptures that do not justify their actions art all.

As for the actual verse, these passages showing God's people building, involved in wars, protecting nations, cities, building defences, families defending cities, etc. all point to a spiritual application, and are not a demonstration that Christian minister should arm themselves and minister out an eye for an eye. That's just stupid, and I use that word deliberately.

Mt 5:3
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Today's Christians completely ignore such perfectly clear scripture that directly deal with the question, in order that they may accept and misinterpret Old Testament Scriptures that they claim imply they should make the Lord's house a literal armed camp rather than a spiritual one. Ironic that they would want to arm ministers literally to defend the flock, but they are usually the first to declare that taking Christ literally when he says we should turn the other cheek, or we shouldn't resist evil, or that our weapons are not carnal but spiritual, that it cannot be taken literally.  That's like saying that when God said the New Covenant with Israel, he wasn't talking about the church. Again, that's just stupid, or excuse me I mean "without wisdom." The Only time we ever read of Christ's disciple pulling a sword against another to defend the church is when Peter attempted to use physical arms to defend Christ, who condemned him for it. In that he was illustrating that God was in control of these events. Imagine that, God actually being sovereign and in control. In other words, God was illustrating that neither Christ nor anyone else is going to die at the hands of anyone unless it is God's will. Stephen was stoned to death for his faith because it was God's will that he be stoned to death. Or else he wouldn't have been stoned to death. Real faith is found in knowing this. I'm not talking about just accepting this view of sovereignty with lip service, but having true spiritual knowledge  that this is true. That does not mean we temp the Lord by walking in the middle of a 4 lane highway to work, it means we are not to, and do not live our lives in fear that God might let us die before our time.

Ps 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

No one dies unless it is their time to die, and no one is going to prevent anyone from being killed before their time, even if they were armed with 20 weapons and 5 hand grenades. If it is their time, it is God's will and they will die. And if they do die, it was God's will. The world doesn't know or believe that, but Christians of all people to believe in sovereignty of God should know that and walk through the valley of the shadow of death without fear of evil. rust in the Lord all you his people.

Ps 20:7
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
8 They are brought down and fallen: but we are risen, and stand upright.

Ps 44:6
For I will not trust in my bow, neither shall my sword save me.
7 But thou hast saved us from our enemies, and hast put them to shame that hated us.
 
Gun toting Ministers thinking that they can trust in their swords to protect God's flock, or staves or guns, etc., have no idea of the power and glory of God and in my view really shouldn't be Ministers representing Christ and His kingdom on earth in the first place. Of all people a minister of God should not be afraid of him that can kill the body, and yet they twist their fear into their deception that God wants us to arm his church to protect it. As if God cannot. Shame on them, because this trend is just another form of fear mongering, and God's true love casts out fear.

May God have mercy on these gun toting ministers who rust in their arms and bring shame upon the Prince of peace and his word that we should live without fear of him that can kill their body but not the soul.

Ps 56:3
What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee.

To think this verse
Ne 4:13
Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows.

To think this verse means that Ministers should set elders in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, and set the people after their families in the pews with with their swords, their spears, and their bows, is stupid! I mean, unwise!

Rich Aikers

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2017, 08:45:51 AM »
I agree with Reformer, but let's not make it seem like all Ministers are carrying guns into the church on Sunday. Yes, I'm sure there are some Ministers who do so in places like Texas or Mississippi who do, but this is a anomaly, not the norm. I'm sure for most of us, we'll never know a Minister who carries a gun into his church. Most ministers know this is not Christian, it is these few who give all Ministers of Christ a bad name.

Gun Toting Ministers are not the normal Minister. Let's make that clear.

Shirley

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Re: Gun Toting Ministers?
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2017, 10:16:26 AM »
Gun Toting Ministers are not the normal Minister. Let's make that clear.

 :Goodpoint: Sometimes a few loud mouths make it seem like it's worse than it is.

 


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