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Author Topic: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy  (Read 4922 times)

David Knoles

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2013, 11:57:32 AM »

I might as well just stop posting to you guys, because you all are so close-minded that you can't see the wisdom of literalism vs an uncommon understanding of Roman Catholicism spiritualism. You say be more scholastic, but is Dr. John Walvoord of the prestigious Dallas Theological Seminary scholastic enough for you people? He was recognized as one of the preeminent scholars of our time, and he agrees with me both about the nation of Israel and their returning when Christ comes again. 1948 was just the start, give them some time. They will come around because the promise is true.

Kenneth White

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2013, 02:58:00 PM »

I might as well just stop posting to you guys, because you all are so close-minded that you can't see

The pot calling the kettle black! You are so close minded you answer scripture of what God said by saying, what about what John W. said? How's that for close minded? Since when does John W. trump God? You want respect? Try respecting God's word. Then we'll talk.
Proverbs 1:5-6 "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings."

George

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2013, 12:01:18 AM »

The best interpreter of Bible prophecy that ever lived. Because he never bought the Reformed Calvinistic view of the end times, he took scripture literally. A true Scholar. Check this out.

https://bible.org/users/john-f-walvoord

Cecil

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2013, 08:46:18 AM »
What About Bible Prophecy?
The Hebrew Scriptures contain numerous prophecies about the return of the nation of Israel to the Promised Land. Not only many Jews, but multitudes in Christendom look forward to a future, literal accomplishment of such prophecies.
Do Zionism and the State of Israel constitute fulfillment of Scriptural predictions of the restoration of Israelites to their homeland? Let us see what the Bible actually says on this matter. With regard to liberation of the Jews from captivity to ancient Babylon, God foretold through the prophet Isaiah:
“It is I who say of Jerusalem, ‘It shall be inhabited,’ and of the towns of Judah, ‘They shall be rebuilt; and I will restore their ruined places.’ . . . am the same who says of Cyrus [the king of Persia], ‘He is My shepherd; he shall fulfill all My purposes! He shall say of Jerusalem, “She shall be rebuilt,” and to the Temple: “You shall be founded again.”’”—Isa. 44:26-28, Jewish Publication Society, 1973.
This and many similar prophecies saw a literal fulfillment in the sixth century B.C.E. In what way? King Cyrus, in his first regnal year (538-537 B.C.E.), issued a decree of liberation for the Jews after seventy years of Babylonian captivity. Notice how the wording of this decree corresponds with the above-quoted prediction by Isaiah: “Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia: All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD, the God of heaven, given me; and He hath charged me to build Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whosoever there is among you of all His people—the LORD his God be with him-let him go up.”—2 Chron. 36:23, JP, 1917.
What did the Israelites who returned to the Promised Land do upon arrival? The Bible relates: “And they set the altar upon its bases; for fear was upon them because of the people of the countries, and they offered burnt-offerings thereon unto the LORD, even burnt-offerings morning and evening.”—(Ezra 3:3, JP, 1917) Thereafter they rebuilt the temple at Jerusalem and reinstituted the formal worship of God as outlined in the Mosaic law.—Ezra 3:8-13; 6:14-16.
Is Zionism a modern fulfillment of these hopes, or perhaps a preliminary step thereto? Well, has the modern-day influx of thousands of Jews to their ancient homeland resulted in reestablishment of the worship of God there in harmony with Biblical requirements? According to the Bible, the Israel that God would restore to their homeland would become “a light of nations, that My salvation may reach the ends of the earth.” (Isa. 49:6, JP, 1973) Do nations today look to the State of Israel as a source of spiritual enlightenment?
As the facts show, Jews migrated to Palestine in flight from pogroms and mass extermination tactics sponsored by professedly Christian governments. It is not a religious but a political state that those refugees and their offspring have formed in that land. The consequent Arab-Israeli problems are of a political nature.

John

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2013, 02:20:31 PM »
So, Tony and others provided Bible verses and harmonized them to prove their point, which no one refuted (or can refute because God's word cannot be broken).

The Dispensationalist / Literalist provides a giant color poster of their hero as proof and a meaningless quote - but never a Biblical argument.

Typical
Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et fructuosis potiri potes!

George

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2013, 03:39:37 PM »
So, Tony and others provided Bible verses and harmonized them to prove their point, which no one refuted (or can refute because God's word cannot be broken).

The Dispensationalist / Literalist provides a giant color poster of their hero as proof and a meaningless quote - but never a Biblical argument.

Typical

First of all, none of that is true. I have provided numerous links to articles that prove Biblically what I have put forth, n0t the least of which is Dr. Walvoord's article. Second, I submitted Dr. Walvoord to counter charges that this theology was uneducated and the product of the uneducated. Dr. Walvoord is one educated theologian that is respected by almost everyone, including Reformed and Puritan authors, all of which agree he was a man of God. So you can make all the charges you want, they all prove false. Because every scripture you guys put forth is refuted by Dr. Walvoord, with scripture. If you are too lazy to read them, that's not my fault.

Dr. Walvoord is the accepted best interpreter of Bible prophecy that ever lived. Because he never accepted the John Calvin confusion of the end times, he took scripture very literally. A true Scholar in every sense of the word.

https://bible.org/users/john-f-walvoord


Melanie

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2017, 04:15:29 AM »

According to the following passage, national Israel will never be destroyed:

Jer 31:36-37
36 "If this fixed order departs
From before Me," declares the LORD,
 "Then the offspring of Israel also shall cease
From being a nation before Me forever."


"Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"
I Peter 2:7-9


There is the only children of Israel that will never cease to be a Holy nation before God


Quote
37 Thus says the LORD,

"If the heavens above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel
For all that they have done," declares the LORD.
NASB


And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:11-12


The ofspring or children were cast out because they rejected the chief corner stone. The only children of Israel that God will never cast out is the spiritual nation that is perfect before God..


Reformed Baptist

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2017, 05:35:21 AM »

There is the only children of Israel that will never cease to be a Holy nation before God

 :amen:  Galatians 6:15-16 "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God".

ZeroCool

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2017, 08:45:25 PM »
You can't have it both ways. In truth, she is actually correct. People who use 1948 to prove that the nation of Israel is God's Chosen people, fulfilling the promise that there will never be an end of the nation, actually prove just the opposite. Since by their own declaration that she became a nation in 1948, that proves that the nation did come to an end.

 :GoodPopst: Tony, this post was probably the best retort against Dispensational's scriptures I've ever read. Nice job with Acts explaining Amos. Funny how it seems Dispensationaliosts have a point, until it doesn't. :cLaPpInGg:

George

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2017, 02:20:09 AM »
What About Bible Prophecy?
The Hebrew Scriptures contain numerous prophecies about the return of the nation of Israel to the Promised Land. Not only many Jews, but multitudes in Christendom look forward to a future, literal accomplishment of such prophecies.

 :Goodpoint: Israel will always be God's children, but it's a waste of time attempting to convince those who refuse the word.

Exodus 32:13
"Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever".

Reformed Baptist

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Re: Why National Israel is not part of Biblical Prophecy
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2017, 02:27:15 PM »
Israel will always be God's children, but it's a waste of time attempting to convince those who refuse the word.

Christ said differently and his people know his word is the truth.

 John 8:41-44
"Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

The bible says only those in Christ are the children of God. Only those who are a new creation in Christ are the Israel of God.
 

 


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