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Author Topic: 2300 evenings and days  (Read 4200 times)

Erik Diamond

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2300 evenings and days
« on: December 04, 2012, 02:51:04 AM »
Dan 8:11-13
  • Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
  • And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Dan 8:17
  • So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
Dan 8:23-26
  • And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
  • And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
  • And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
  • And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Let look at one of my older charts I created on the "time of the end" from the beginning of Great Tribulation (1,260th day) to the Second Coming (1,335th day) with abomination of desolation started on 1,290th day.

http://tribulationsigns.com/gtp2.pdf


On the chart, I believe the 2,300 days (or evenings and mornings) represents the whole great tribulation period. We do not know exactly when it started or ends. Or could I be wrong that the 2,300 days should start on 1,290th day when the judgment of the church takes place when Satan have full rule for one hour?

I am open to correction.

Erik 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Reformed Baptist

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2012, 06:46:15 AM »
The 2300 days are literal, not symbolic. This is proved by the fact God calls it evenings mornings, just like at creation. It is 24 hour periods of evenings and mornings. The light and darkness of a day as the earth revolves around the sun.

 Genesis 1:5
 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

The 2300 evening mornings cannot be the whole Great tribulation period unless that period is literally 2300 days. I believe the 2300 days are after the Church falls and the abomination of desolation stands for 2300 days.

Tony Warren

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2012, 11:54:49 AM »
>>>
On the chart, I believe the 2,300 days (or evenings and mornings) represents the whole great tribulation period.
<<<

Erik,
  Why do you think 2300 evening mornings are symbolic of the Great tribulation period? Could it not be the period of death of the witnesses? Also, what do you believe the sanctuary being cleansed represents? I ask that because of these verses?

Matthew 24:21-26
  • "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
  • And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
  • Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
  • For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
  • Behold, I have told you before.
  • Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"i acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Erik Diamond

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 01:37:43 AM »
Quote from: Tony Warren
Why do you think 2300 evening mornings are symbolic of the Great tribulation period?
.

Well, when we study the 1,260, 1,290 and 1,335 days and time periods in Revelation, we see these as symbolic, right?  But then I realize that God said that the 2,300 days are evenings and mornings. And based on Genesis 1:5, we might have to see them as literal days, true?   

Quote
Could it not be the period of death of the witnesses?

Are you suggesting that the period of the death of Two Witnesses between 1,260th day and 1,290th day is 2,300 evenings and mornings? What about the "transgression of desolation", I thought refers to Abomination of Desolation, Daniel 8:12? Don't we need to include that?

Quote
Also, what do you believe the sanctuary being cleansed represents? I ask that because of these verses?

I admit that I thought the cleansing of the sanctuary has to do with separation of Elects from the heathen at Second Coming. But then it might not make sense since the Elects has already depart out of city. Are you suggesting that the cleansing of the sanctuary has to do with resurrection of Two Witnesses and depart out of the city in preparation for judgment?

I am interesting to know what you believe. 

Thanks,
Erik 
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Puritan Heart

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 02:32:05 PM »
Interesting comments, but might I ask, ''if'' these were to be literal 'evenings and mornings' which calender would be appropriated and when would one begin the 'counting' process?

Alexandra
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Erik Diamond

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 04:14:40 PM »
Interesting comments, but might I ask, ''if'' these were to be literal 'evenings and mornings' which calender would be appropriated and when would one begin the 'counting' process?


I don't know. If the prophecy was written by Daniel in the old testament, then it would be either  Hebrew calendar otherwise Gregorian calendar.

Regardless, I really don't think we can pinpoint the exact day to start count evenings and mornings from since we do not know when the last Elect was sealed before the testimony is finished.  Most of us still going to church after that until God calls us to come out.  Also we cannot know when the congregation as a whole officially fall in God's eyes.

But I wanted to know if we should see 2,300 evenings and mornings as the period of the death of Two Witnessess or the "whole Great Tribulation Period" from testimony being finished to Second Coming.  Keep in mind that the "great tribulation" period ended FOR THE ELECTS when they came out of the church when they see abomination of desolation. Therefore the great tribulation period did not continue until the Second Coming but I do not know the better word for the whole period. Anyone?

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Pilgrim

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 12:08:41 PM »

I don't know. If the prophecy was written by Daniel in the old testament, then it would be either  Hebrew calendar otherwise Gregorian calendar.

Erik

I don't think the object is to know from where it starts, but merely to attest it will be 2300 days.  I don't think anyone knows when (what days) it starts so the 2300 days is a very literal, but a spiritual marker. I have heard 2300 has some spiritual significance. Redemption?

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." -Matthew 1:21

Erik Diamond

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2012, 12:21:22 PM »
Quote
I don't think the object is to know from where it starts, but merely to attest it will be 2300 days.

Agreed. That was what I said in my previous post.

What I like to know from Tony Warren is if he believe the 2,300 evenings and mornings refers to the period of the death of Two Witnesses, then how exactly does the sanctuary be cleansed and that there will be more time afterward? I asked because I thought the cleansing of the sanctuary occurs on Second Coming (Last Day).

And I wondered why Tony did not include Abomination of Desolation that comes after the resurrection of Two Witnesses?

Erik
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

Soldier

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 03:29:25 PM »
I don't know. If the prophecy was written by Daniel in the old testament, then it would be either  Hebrew calendar otherwise Gregorian calendar.

Erik

It would be 2300 evening mornings, regardless. 2300 days.


Theophilus

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2014, 06:52:14 PM »
Hello Everyone:

Since the 7th Day Adventists teach that in 1844 Christ moved from the holy place to the most holy place, teaching that I reject. I was 'challenged' today by a 7th Day Adventist to consider the study of Daniel 8 where it speaks about the 2300 evenings and days. 

Here is what it says:

Quote
Daniel 8:9-14

9 Out of one of them came a little horn, which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land. 10 It grew great, even to the host of heaven. And some of the host and some of the stars it threw down to the ground and trampled on them. 11 It became great, even as great as the Prince of the host. And the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was overthrown. 12 And a host will be given over to it together with the regular burnt offering because of transgression, and it will throw truth to the ground, and it will act and prosper. 13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?” 14 And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”

This passage, if taken to be yet future (some think it refers to Anthiocus Epiphanes), refers to the rule of the man of sin mentioned by Apostle Paul in 2 Thes. 2.

Here is my view:

>>>>
9 Out of one of them came a little horn, which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land.
<<<<


This cold be a reference to the end-time of world-wide tribulation (south, east) when the global church is persecuted by the forces of Satan in order to destroy it's power. 

The "little horn" speaks of a short period of time; it growing exceedingly represents this evil power that expands its dominion over the earth.  In Revelation 20 we read:

Quote
7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

The glorious land, symbolically Israel (refers to the church).   This passage is very similar to what we read in Revelation 20th where it speaks of Satan being lose and coming against the 'beloved city':

Revelation 20: 9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city... Christ spoke of the believers as a 'city on a hill".

>>>>
10 It grew great, even to the host of heaven. And some of the host and some of the stars it threw down to the ground and trampled on them. 11 It became great, even as great as the Prince of the host.
<<<<


The power of Satan extended upwards toward heaven.  Thus assuming the power and honor that belongs to God alone. In 2 Thes. 2 we read:

Quote
For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

>>>>>
1 It became great, even as great as the Prince of the host. And the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was overthrown. 12 And a host will be given over to it together with the regular burnt offering because of transgression, and it will throw truth to the ground, and it will act and prosper.
<<<<<


The regular burnt offering was taken away... may refer to the time when by the power of the little horn, grown big the true witness of the church on the earth will be taken away because of transgression... This reminds us of Rev. 11 when the two witnesses (could represent the church) are killed and the nations of the world rejoice over their death sending each other congratulations for having conquered the saints.... This they will do by "throwing truth to the ground, and it will act and prosper."

A little later in the same chapter of Daniel 8 we read the description of this end time kingdom:

Quote
23 And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise. 24 His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints. 25 By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand. 26 The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.”

>>>>>
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?” 14 And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”
<<<<<


For how long will the church be trampled underfoot? 2300 evenings and mornings (or 2300 days); that is, the length of the end time tribulation/ final persecution period and conquering of the church. This is the attack of Satan against the holy city as it is mentioned in Rev. 20 which will end with the coming of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in the clouds of heaven. - The Second Coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This prophecy concerns the end of time.  Some see it as the end of the time of the Jewish people as a nation of God on the earth but I think is more fitting to see it as the 'end of time' of the church on the earth:

Quote
Daniel 8:

15 When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” 17 So he came near where I stood. And when he came, I was frightened and fell on my face. But he said to me, “Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end.”18 And when he had spoken to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the ground. But he touched me and made me stand up. 19 He said, “Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter end of the indignation, for it refers to the appointed time of the end.

Your comments are welcome.

In Christ,

Jorge



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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 01:33:32 AM »
Awesome! I believe that you are right on track. The little horn kills the two witnesses of Revelation 11, and comes to power when Satan is loosed (Revelation 20). It seems to all fit into place. You see the 2300 evenings mornings as literal, right? It seems as if they are to me also, but I'm not sure.
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Theophilus

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2014, 08:59:52 PM »
Hello,

The entire period of the sanctuary being trampled under foot is 2300 evenings and mornings (days).

Quote
Daniel 8:9-14

9 Out of one of them came a little horn, which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land.

10 It grew great, even to the host of heaven. And some of the host and some of the stars it threw down to the ground and trampled on them. 11 It became great, even as great as the Prince of the host. And the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was overthrown. 12 And a host will be given over to it together with the regular burnt offering because of transgression, and it will throw truth to the ground, and it will act and prosper.

As I see it, there are a few things to note here:

(1) The great enlargement (in power and reach) and global invasion of the little horn extending in all directions: Coming from the North going Southward, Eastward and Westward (the region of the Glorious land [Israel] from Babylon).

(2) The little horn's Kingdom will be great, as great as the Church, the Kindgdom Prince of Host (A possible reference to JesusChrist)

(3a) The regular burnt offering is taken away from him (HIM could be referring to the Prince of Hosts, Jesus). The taking away of the burnt offering could be a reference to the 'true' worship service to God no longer present. That's why it continues to say "and the place of his sanctuary was overthrown".  Again, the place of HIS (Jesus) sanctuary (the Church) was overthrown.  Jesus dwells in the church, that is HIS sanctuary.

(3b) A host (a multitude of true believers?) will be given to it (the little horn); and it will throw the truth to the ground, and it will act and prosper. (True believers will be persecuted by this little horn with great power).

There is progression in this...

Quote
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?” 14 And he said to me, “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”

This is a three part question:

1a. For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering... (being taken away from HIM, that is from Christ).

1b. The transgression that makes desolate (then there is transgression that makes (or brings) desolation when false worship is in the sanctuary)

2. And the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot? (the complete conquering of the church and believers).

The entire period of time is 2300 days + 225 days = 2525 days/ 360 = approx. 7 years (See Time Calculations below)

When we read Dan. 11

Quote
31 Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate. 32 He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action. 33 And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder. 34 When they stumble, they shall receive a little help. And many shall join themselves to them with flattery, 35 and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time.

Also, in Daniel 12 we read...

9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.[/quote]

Note: The wicked acting wickedly mentioned here are those who violate the covenant, forsaking the truth and joining the little horn with flattery (see Ch. 11 above). Those who are purified are the true believers who are faithful and are faithful to the end; these are the "the wise among the people shall make many understand" (Dan. 11:33)

Now let's look at the timing of the events:

Quote
11 And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days. 13 But go your way till the end. And you shall rest and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days.”

Note: (Verse 11) And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. (3.5 years)

Therefore:

This is a two part-timing of events:

1a. For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering... (being taken away from HIM, that is from Christ):

1b. ...the transgression that makes desolate (then there is transgression that makes (or brings) desolation when false worship is in the sanctuary)

The timing here for 1a and 1b above is 1,290 days. (3.53 yrs)

2. ...and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot? (the complete conquering of the church and believers). The rest of the time which is about (3.5 years) also.

Time Calculations:

So, 2300 days (approx. 6 yrs. 3.25 moths.) - 1290 days (3.5 yrs) = 1010 days (approx. 2 yrs. 7 months.) 1335 days ( ) - 1110 days = 225 days (7.5 months).

6 years 3.25 months + 7.5 months = 11.75 months (approx. 1 yr.); Therefore approx. 6 years + approx. 1 yr. = 7 yrs. 

If my calculations are correct, then the entire span of time from beginning to end is 7 years. It is divided in two parts:

Next to Consider:

What and When is the Abomination of Desolation?  Jesus stated that it was something still future in Mt. 24. Is that event still something future to us today?

Blessings!

Jorge



Fred

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 05:49:54 AM »

WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON AN AWESOME NEW SITE.

STAY TUNED!


Erik


A site that takes 6 years to build "MUST" be awesome. Can't wait! Erik says the site will be coming soon and he doesn't lie. I know it's been another year (from 4 to 6) since I last reported this, but as a Christian I know it's as he says, the site is coming soon. Else he would not have this patriotic tease up, cause he don't lie :-X. Soon means soon. Sometime in this century I think. Then we'll get the answers about the 2300 days and trubulation signs in a high tech, fantastic, years in the making website.

Anyway, keep checking back every year, if Erik's not dead before then ;)

Here's the link.

http://tribulationsigns.com/

Unless of course the Tribulation is over before completion of this AWESOME site.  :laugh:




ray

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 07:01:33 AM »

WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON AN AWESOME NEW SITE.

STAY TUNED!


Erik


A site that takes 6 years to build "MUST" be awesome. Can't wait! Erik says the site will be coming soon and he doesn't lie. I know it's been another year (from 4 to 6) since I last reported this, but as a Christian I know it's as he says, the site is coming soon. Else he would not have this patriotic tease up, cause he don't lie :-X. Soon means soon. Sometime in this century I think. Then we'll get the answers about the 2300 days and trubulation signs in a high tech, fantastic, years in the making website.

Anyway, keep checking back every year, if Erik's not dead before then ;)

Here's the link.

http://tribulationsigns.com/

Unless of course the Tribulation is over before completion of this AWESOME site.  :laugh:





This has nothing to do with the topic in view. can this post please be deleted.

George

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Re: 2300 evenings and days
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 08:52:48 AM »
I disagree, it's not off topic. The whole point of the coming website is the great tribulation signs, which includes the 2300 days spoken of in Daniel. Erik's going to give his views on this great spiritualist topic someday when he gets time to put god first. :)

 And it's going to be an awesome site to behold. It's only once a year Fred brings it up so what's the big deal? Lighten up a little! You just have to be patient another couple years or four. In the meantime, I recommend

http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/dan8b.html


 


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