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Author Topic: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism  (Read 11000 times)

Reformer

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2012, 01:55:24 AM »
it could mean anything including simply a Christian.

 I'm an evangelist!  :)


Quote
I looked it up and it is a Greek word which means the proclamation of the good news of salvation to lost men.

That could also be a politician at election time.  ...just kidding!  :P


Rich Aikers

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2012, 12:43:14 PM »
I looked it up and it is a Greek word which means the proclamation of the good news of salvation to lost men.

That could also be a politician at election time.  ...just kidding!  :P

You mean Politicians can't save us? They Lie?   ;)


Reggie Matthews

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2012, 02:07:26 PM »

On the other hand, those of us of the Reformed faith in the doctrines of Grace, believe God commands evangelism all throughout the bible.

Mark 16:15
 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."


Now I'm confused. Are you separating Calvinists from Reformed Theologians?  Aren't they one and the same?

"Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?" -Ecclesiastes 8:4

billnjune

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2012, 04:44:08 PM »

Now I'm confused. Are you separating Calvinists from Reformed Theologians?  Aren't they one and the same?

These terms are loosely used. 

To say that you are Reformed means that your heritage was from the reformation or the break off from the Catholic Church.

And to say that you are Calvinistic means that you follow the teachings of John Calvin.

Of course I don’t fell that I am a break off of the Catholic Church nor do I follow Calvin, but I guess that we need a word to define us, so I often use the word Sovereign-Gracer. 

The disciples and others before 1000 AD were neither Reformed nor Calvinistic but they did believe in the Sovereignty of God and the doctrines of Grace, which separates them from the Arminians or the Free-Willers.

Presbyterians are clearly Reformed, but I am Reformed Baptist and I do not claim anything to do with the Reformation nor the Catholic Church.  NO, not Reformed Baptist but I should say Sovereign-Grace Baptist :)

Really it is no big deal.  We just need a term to clearly define ourselves.

Bill
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Reformer

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2012, 02:57:06 AM »

On the other hand, those of us of the Reformed faith in the doctrines of Grace, believe God commands evangelism all throughout the bible.

Mark 16:15
 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."


Now I'm confused. Are you separating Calvinists from Reformed Theologians?  Aren't they one and the same?


Quote
Now I'm confused. Are you separating Calvinists from Reformed Theologians?

I don't know if he is, but I am.

Those who find some satisfaction in being called Calvinists or Puritans tend to have a certain "grandfathered in" bunker mentality and mindset of arrogance, a little conceit and most of all smugness. That's my opinion! Reformed theologians by contrast are more humble, less resistant to supporting scriptures, and tend not to have that "high and mighty elitist opinion" of themselves that Calvinists/Puritans do.

Lu 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.


Quote
   Aren't they one and the same?

Well, I'll catch heat for saying this I'm sure, but No, not really. At least, not in my mind, which is the only one I've got ;)

We're all somewhat vain, but Calvinists/Puritans are "generally" more vain, glory in their own knowledge and are decidedly more proud of being Calvinists/Puritans than honored to be servants and evangelists of God. No, you won't find many Calvinist Evangelists IMHO! While Reformed theologians tend to have an open mind to scripture, glory more in the truth of the Bible itself than election, and consider it a privilege to serve and spread soteriology.

I'm speaking in general, but Calvinists/Puritans tend to focus more on presuming to explain the unexplanable, superlatives, regurgitating other Calvinist/Puritan author's thoughts, and clinging to traditional creeds and such over a strict biblical authority and interpretation. While most Reformed theologians will lean more upon the bible interpreting itself, and a strict scripture alone system that might even contradict the creeds (Gasp!!!). When I say that, I mean actual Sola Scriptura as opposed to the lip service of Calvinist/Puritans. Reformed theologians lean less upon the works of others and more upon "the word" itself.

Moreover, to some degree Calvinists/Puritans often neglect the great commission of evangelism in favor of personal growth through social and intellectual edification, with a bent towards building from where others have already laid brick, rather than from the foundation up or strictly from the bible. Reformed theologians tend more towards growing not through tradition or joying in worshiping John Calvin and other Reformed church fathers or  intellectual stimulation, but in the grace of God, with more compassion, service and the charity more in line with the good Samaritan

No, I wouldn't say they are one and the same, but I'm sure a host of others will :)


James Heckman

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2012, 09:14:36 AM »
I think you're being really unfair. Who exactly do you consider a Calvinist and who Reformed? Wasn't Spurgeon a Calvinist?

billnjune

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2012, 09:43:21 PM »

Bill on his Soapbox

I think you're being really unfair. Who exactly do you consider a Calvinist and who Reformed? Wasn't Spurgeon a Calvinist?

James,

You are correct and we are just having a technical frenzy with the definition of words.

The everyday usage of Calvinism and Reformed is that they hold to the 5 points of Calvin or the TULIP. 

The technical meaning of Calvinism is to be a follower of Calvin and I don’t think that too many fall into that category.

The technical meaning of Reformed is that your heritage was derived from the reformation movement.  The word Reformed Baptist is really a contradiction of terms, but everyone knows what is meant when you say Reformed Baptist, meaning that it is a Baptist that holds to the 5 points of Calvin. 
   
The strange thing is that all Baptist prior to about 1800 were 5 point Calvinistic.  The problem lies in that the Baptist church has become so apostate, that very few understand that today.  There is a group of Baptist called the founders (www.founders.org ) with the goal of bringing the SBC back to its roots.

Sorry for the off-topic chatter
The only regret that I have is that I only have one life to live for my God.

James Heckman

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2012, 04:26:04 PM »

James,

You are correct and we are just having a technical frenzy with the definition of words.

The everyday usage of Calvinism and Reformed is that they hold to the 5 points of Calvin or the TULIP. 

The technical meaning of Calvinism is to be a follower of Calvin and I don’t think that too many fall into that category.

Don't get Tony Warren started again :)



Quote
   
The strange thing is that all Baptist prior to about 1800 were 5 point Calvinistic.  The problem lies in that the Baptist church has become so apostate, that very few understand that today.

That's a very unfair comment.

Quote
There is a group of Baptist called the founders (www.founders.org ) with the goal of bringing the SBC back to its roots.


My point exactly.

Melanie

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2016, 04:38:22 AM »

The technical meaning of Calvinism is to be a follower of Calvin and I don’t think that too many fall into that category.

The technical meaning of Reformed is that your heritage was derived from the reformation movement. 

Your comments peeked my interest and raises what I think is a very important question. Does an affirmation of God’s sovereign election in salvation (commonly called “Reformed Theology”) discourage people from their God authored faithfulness in evangelism?
 

Rich Aikers

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2016, 10:20:17 AM »
Your comments peeked my interest and raises what I think is a very important question. Does an affirmation of God’s sovereign election in salvation (commonly called “Reformed Theology”) discourage people from their God authored faithfulness in evangelism?

Hi Melanie. I would say no, not at all. That's what many Arminians claim, but it is a charge without foundation. Believing in reformed theology does not  in any way dampen our enthusiasm or passion for evangelism nor discourage anyone in that area. Unfortunately, this is a tactic used by some to paint us all with the same brush of uncaring and self-centered. So while it may be true in some small circles, that is not the normal attitude of the overall reformed church.

 Matthew 10:7-8
"And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."

This is the essence of reformed evangelism. That we go out and preach the healing of the sick to those sick, the raising of the dead to those dead, not that we sit in our churches and wish for these things, but that we actually work towards these things.

Reformer

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2016, 01:38:18 AM »
Your comments peeked my interest and raises what I think is a very important question. Does an affirmation of God’s sovereign election in salvation (commonly called “Reformed Theology”) discourage people from their God authored faithfulness in evangelism?

Melanie,
  Did you bring this topic up again because you don't know the answer, or because you are intrigued by the question? Election doesn't  discourage people from their faithfulness in evangelism, those who don't care about others don't evangelize because of something within them, not prescribed in Election or Predestination.

Having said that, I still believe that it is sad that "some" Calvinists in their seal to promote the doctrine of election unconsciously remove all human obligation, work and responsibility from the command to evangelize, and that is where the error lies. Calvinists, including Ernest C. Reisinger, go to great lengths to claim that Calvinism does not mean they are followers of John Calvin, but then they contradict that whole logic by writing that though Augustine believed in the same predestination and election, they can't be called Augustinians because that would mean they were followers of Augustine and connect themselves to his doctrines about the Roman Catholic Church. If they understand that to call themselves after Augustine implied they follow his teachings, why do they stubbornly refuse to understand that to call themselves after Calvin implies the same thing? Reisinger objects, saying We could, with justice call Calvinism Augustinianism and that would not mean we are following Augustine into the Roman Catholic Church, but rather that we are following the principles of theology that Augustine taught. Well, the principles of theology that Augustine taught were Roman Catholicism. So again, it makes no sense. We can'y have it both ways.
 
"John A. Broadus, a great Southern Baptist of the last century, was right when he said that this system goes back to the Apostle Paul. Hence, Broadus called Calvinism 'that exalted system of Pauline truth'." -Ernest C. Reisinger

I'm using his quote to show a point, which is that what people label Calvinism was the doctrine taught by Augustine and was labeled Pauline truth, when it simply is just bible truth that needs no sect to distinguish it. We have all muddied the waters of truth calling it Calvinism or Pauline truth "as if" these were the men who authored it. Or that the doctrines these men taught were somehow different from regular Christian doctrine. As Tony Warren also said some time ago, this serves no purpose other than to give people ammunition and an avenue to deny it as Bible truth and declare it the doctrine of these men, something outside of what Christ or the bible implicitly taught. Two topics here, Calvinism and Evangelism but like the title of this thread, I think they are related. For some people stubbornly think Calvinism is anti-evangelism, and there are tons of articles online illustrating that, attempting to prove this is not the case. Sad to say, often it is. Not with good ministers like Ernest C. Reisinger and other faithful teachers who use the term, but a great many others.

The fact is, the doctrines of grace, Election, Predestination, means evangelism as part of God's favor on us from the foundation of the world.

George

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2016, 04:07:09 AM »
Oh Wow! Calvinism has a certain appeal to a non evangelistic spirit because it tends to have an answer for everything. In other words, you can explain everything, including a lack of following the great commission to preach the gospel to the unchurched by saying that "God predestined it." I think we've seen examples of that in Puritan Heart's (Aka Alexandra) posts and also in billnjune asking where does the Bible claim we should evangelize, as if it doesn't. That laissez-faire indifferent attitude is clearly prevalent in here in this forum and also in most Calvinist circles.

Melanie

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2016, 06:27:31 AM »
Melanie,
  Did you bring this topic up again because you don't know the answer, or because you are intrigued by the question?

Actually, probably more because I am intrigued by the question. I don't believe that  election in any way  discourages real Christians from evangelism. Like you, I think that it may be used as an excuse by some not to witness the gospel to the general public, but I don't think it inherently produces such inaction.


Travis

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Re: Calvinists, Calvinism and Evangelism
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2017, 04:09:59 AM »

On the other hand, those of us of the Reformed faith in the doctrines of Grace, believe God commands evangelism all throughout the bible.

Mark 16:15
 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."


Now I'm confused. Are you separating Calvinists from Reformed Theologians?  Aren't they one and the same?


Quote
Now I'm confused. Are you separating Calvinists from Reformed Theologians?

I don't know if he is, but I am.

Those who find some satisfaction in being called Calvinists or Puritans tend to have a certain "grandfathered in" bunker mentality and mindset of arrogance, a little conceit and most of all smugness. That's my opinion! Reformed theologians by contrast are more humble, less resistant to supporting scriptures, and tend not to have that "high and mighty elitist opinion" of themselves that Calvinists/Puritans do.

Lu 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.


Quote
   Aren't they one and the same?

Well, I'll catch heat for saying this I'm sure, but No, not really. At least, not in my mind, which is the only one I've got ;)

We're all somewhat vain, but Calvinists/Puritans are "generally" more vain, glory in their own knowledge and are decidedly more proud of being Calvinists/Puritans than honored to be servants and evangelists of God. No, you won't find many Calvinist Evangelists IMHO! While Reformed theologians tend to have an open mind to scripture, glory more in the truth of the Bible itself than election, and consider it a privilege to serve and spread soteriology.

I'm speaking in general, but Calvinists/Puritans tend to focus more on presuming to explain the unexplanable, superlatives, regurgitating other Calvinist/Puritan author's thoughts, and clinging to traditional creeds and such over a strict biblical authority and interpretation. While most Reformed theologians will lean more upon the bible interpreting itself, and a strict scripture alone system that might even contradict the creeds (Gasp!!!). When I say that, I mean actual Sola Scriptura as opposed to the lip service of Calvinist/Puritans. Reformed theologians lean less upon the works of others and more upon "the word" itself.

Moreover, to some degree Calvinists/Puritans often neglect the great commission of evangelism in favor of personal growth through social and intellectual edification, with a bent towards building from where others have already laid brick, rather than from the foundation up or strictly from the bible. Reformed theologians tend more towards growing not through tradition or joying in worshiping John Calvin and other Reformed church fathers or  intellectual stimulation, but in the grace of God, with more compassion, service and the charity more in line with the good Samaritan

No, I wouldn't say they are one and the same, but I'm sure a host of others will :)


Wow! Newbie Here. Just reading this thread and I would say that a lot of Calvinists would probably disagree. While I understand your position that Calvinists are not evangelistic to some degree (they would dispute that, but I don't), the position that they worship John Calvin might be a little to strong. Yes, they quote him and often defer to his writings to answer questions, but that's not worship. So that might be a little unfair. I think the real issue is that perhaps they take sovereignty to mean a little bit more than it means. It doesn't mean you don't go out and preach the gospel to the unsaved, it means when you do it is because God had already chosen anyone who hears you and responds, to salvation. I agree some Calvinists think it means you don't have to witness, but I don't think all believe that. My experience is that generally the Calvinist doesn't witness unless you go to their church. I could be wrong, but I think they believe that you have to be called to them first. Some of them I know do. There was a Calvinist where I worked and he never witnessed to anyone, but he let us know that he was a Christian and Calvinist. Looking back on it, I wish he had.


 


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