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Author Topic: Israel, Babylon, Jerusalen and the Church  (Read 12548 times)

Frank Mortimer

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Re: Israel, Babylon, Jerusalen and the Church
« Reply #60 on: June 11, 2017, 05:48:33 AM »
Dan, that idea is typical of the false eschatology around the web. People seem to just seem to decide to interpret scripture any way that they want. The U.S. is not Babylon, and there isn't the slightest bit of  biblical support for that idea. Babylon is Israel, Jerusalem and the church as they have forsaken their god and brought the world's idolatry into God's house. Look at passages like found in Hosea where God talks about his people.

 Hosea 4:12 "My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God. They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery."

There is the vivid picture of the great harlot. It's god's people, the unfaithful assembly.

ZeroCool

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Re: Israel, Babylon, Jerusalen and the Church
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2017, 04:06:32 AM »

The Earth/World and all who dwell therein is Mystery Babylon.
 

All who dwell in the world are not secret/mystery Babylon, else we have contradiction after contradiction.

Tony, I have heard that Babylon was the world also. Or more precisely, the world system. Some very well respected theologians hold this view.

Bunyan

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Re: Israel, Babylon, Jerusalen and the Church
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2017, 12:47:38 AM »
Tony, I have heard that Babylon was the world also. Or more precisely, the world system. Some very well respected theologians hold this view.

A lot of well respected Theologians hold to a lot of views that are not Biblical, like Premillennialism, Doctrines of Israel's restoration, the 70 Ad theory, the doctrine of divorce and so on. We have to believe what is written in scripture, not what a lot of theologians say. Consensus has never been the way to determine truth.

Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

See how God says that Babylon has become the habitation of devils. So unless the world will one day be full of devils, then it cannot be the world. It cannot mean the wicked inhabiting the world, as the wicked won't inherit the earth. Nor will their judgment be to inhabit the world. Also it says the kings of the earth stand far away and watch her burning.

Revelation 18:9
 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

How can the kings of the world, not be in the world, but far away from it watching its judgment? Babylon cannot be the earth drinking blood, the world, or the world system.
"The law says, 'do this,' and it is never done. Grace
says, 'believe in this,' and everything is already done
."
- Martin Luther

Tony Warren

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Re: Israel, Babylon, Jerusalen and the Church
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2017, 08:23:51 AM »
>>>
Tony, I have heard that Babylon was the world also. Or more precisely, the world system. Some very well respected theologians hold this view.
<<<

Yes, I know. Unfortunately this idea once permeated the church, the web and sadly many reformed institutions. Nevertheless, it has no real Biblical foundation. At least none that will hold up under careful scrutiny. Babylon is not the false "world system," it is the false "Religious System" in the congregation. It is that once Great City Jerusalem, gone bad. It is the same once great city that eventually kills the two witnesses (Revelation 11) within her. These two witnesses of Revelation 11 "represent" the true believers who are faithful witnesses in that church. Remember, they are not killed outside in the world, they're killed on the streets of that same great city, but only after they have finished their witness or testimony. And again, they were killed by God's people who resided there, the false prophets, the unfaithful professing Christians who were tortured by their testimony and witness against their disobedience. Babylon, Sodom and Egypt are simply terms to identify this people's spiritual condition.

Revelation 11:7-8
  • "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
  • And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
When the Apostle John, under inspiration of God, called Jerusalem spiritually Sodom and Egypt, He wasn't saying that this was the city of Sodom or it was the nation Egypt, rather, He was using these well known biblical references to illustrate the spiritual condition of this "Great City" where Christ was Crucified, and that will kill the two true witnesses of God. Again, it is the congregation Babylon within which these two witnesses resided, and within which they were killed. i.e., the congregation that has become spiritually Babylon, full of abominations that will leave it desolate. The congregation that has become spiritually as Sodom was, and spiritually as Egypt was. In other words, it is full of rebellion against God, and abominations that will leave it desolate.

Matthew 10:19-22
  • "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
  • For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
  • And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
  • And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Brother against brother, just as it was with Cain and Abel, family against family, generation against generation, Christ against the antichrist, the man of God against the man of sin, and the two witnesses will be silenced in the great city. Not as a sign of their defeat, but of the end of that great city as a city of God. That Great city falls as a great stone. For though the faithful testimony in this congregation is finished, the saints are not hurt nor destroyed because their refuge is the Lord's Holy Mountain.

Babylon, the city of confusion, is a representation of a spiritually bankrupt congregation.

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

ZeroCool

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Re: Israel, Babylon, Jerusalen and the Church
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2017, 09:09:20 AM »

Babylon, the city of confusion, is a representation of a spiritually bankrupt congregation.


Thank you Tony, I appreciate your diligence and explanations. A lot to consider here.

 


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