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Author Topic: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?  (Read 46359 times)

Doug Johnson

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Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« on: May 14, 2003, 07:40:35 AM »
I have read the posts about the cessation of miracles of healing today, but where is the proof of this? Can we just blow off the charismata just because some people without scripture say it's gone. I would ask those who believe there is no healing to kindly explain these verses. Please.

 Mr 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

 Mr 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

 Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Rebel

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2003, 06:52:44 PM »
Doug,  
     I  wonder  if  you  have  considered  this:  just  who  are  the  sick?  Are  they  people  with  literal  infirmities  or  could  we  possibly  find  a  deeper  meaning  in  these  verses?  
     I  remember  a  time  in  the  Bible  when  Jesus  compared  the  lost  souls  with  sick  people  who  needed  a  physician.
       Matthew  9:12-13  "But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.  
     But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."  

     It  may  be  that  "the  sick"  represent  those  who  are  spiritually  sick  and  Jesus  literally  healing  infirmities  could  be  symbolic  of  the  time  when  He  would  start  healing  hearts.  
     Now  about  the  verses  you  asked  about.
     
     "Mr 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them."
     Just  because  Jesus  healed  the  sick  when  He  walked  the  earth  doesn't  necessarily  mean  it  still  goes  on  today.  His  laying  of  the  hands  on  the  sick  could  have  been  pointing  to  the  spiritual  healing  that  was  about  to  take  place.

     "Mr 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
     The  first  promise  in  this  verse  is  that  believers  will  be  able  to  pick  up  serpents.  This  cannot  be  translated  literally.  Maybe  it  means  that  the  devil  will  not  be  able  to  hurt  us  and  we  will  have  power  over  him  in  the  name  of  Jesus.  The  second  promise  is  that  if  we  drink  poison,  we  will  not  be  harmed.  This  also  must  have  a  spiritual  meaning.  The  poison  could  be  false  doctrines.  When  we  hear  them,  instead  of  our  minds  being  poisoned  with  lies,  the  Lord  protects  us.
     If  the  first  two  can  be  interpreted  spiritually,  shouldn't  the  third  promise  also?  Healing  the  sick  could  actually  mean  spreading  the  gospel  and  causing  spiritual  "healing."
       "1Ti 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery."
     I  don't  see  anything  in  here  about  healing  the  sick.
      "Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."
     This  could  apply  to  a  Christian  who  is  experiencing  persecution  or  maybe  really  is  ill.  But  "save  the  sick"  and  "raise  him  up"  give  me  the  idea  of  someone  who  has  backslidden  and  needs  help  so  he  can  be  restored.  Jesus  has  used  the  term  "raise  up"  when  referring  to  spiritual  revival  and  sometimes  resurrection.  This  verse  doesn't  necessarily  have  to  mean  literal  sickness.
     Are  miracles  and  healing  still  happening  today?  That's  hard  to  say.  Sometimes  what  we  call  "miracles"  are  really  acts  of  God's  Providential  care.  There  is  a  difference.  Anyway,  with  all  the  lies  and  deceptions  going  on  in  churches  today,  finding  the  truth  of  this  matter  can  only  be  done  by  careful  study  of  God's  Word.  And  that,  I  believe,  I  will  leave  to  the  experts.   ;)  
     Grace  be  with  you,
                                      Rebel  <><    
 


Until  you  find  something  worth  dying  for,  you're  not  really  living.

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Pearson

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2003, 04:03:59 AM »
Well said Rebel. The miraculous healings that were done were a picture of the healing nature of salvation brought by the gospel of Christ.

 Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

The miraculous healings of Christ and the apostles were never meant to show that Christians could do physical healings, but were signs to show how christians will go forth with the good news which heals man's sin sickness, not our physical sickness. That is the true power of Christ we have.

 Isa. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

 1 Pet. 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The sins we are healed from is what is in view, not that we would be healed from cancers or aids or other terminal deseases.

dsouzaanthony

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2003, 04:58:44 AM »
All physical healings brought about by Jesus Christ were spiritual pictures of salvation.  Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead to prove that He is the Resurrection & Life.  He multiplied bread to show that He is the Bread of Life.  He opened the Blind to show that He is the Light of this world.  He cast out demons to show that we were all under the power of darkness & that only Christ had powers to set us free.  

I believe all miracles recorded in the gospels were not coinsidential but carefully chosen by God even before the foundation of the world.

John 9:

1  And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2  And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3  Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
5  As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

The Apostles worked miracles upon the authority of Jesus Christ.  Today, we need not have these phisical miracles in order to saved but believe the carefully recorded message of the Bible.  In spiritual sense, we still heal the sick when we preach the gospel & the hearer gets saved.


Doug Johnson

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2003, 11:56:02 AM »
Ok but do you just disregard the thousands of witnesses to miracles, such as the Fatima miracles, or the miracles in south america witnessed by hundreds? Gold appearing in people's mouths even today in San Francisco? You think all these people are liars?

Sandy

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2003, 01:14:17 PM »
Doug,

It's not that these people are liars, but rather that they are deceived.  

2 Corinthians 11:13,14,15 - For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Satan and his ministers of righteousness look and sound like Christ.  Their message is subtle as it leads us away from Christ.  Notice it is promised that their end shall be according to their works.  So what is this work they are judged by?
 
Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

It is the false christs and false prophets who show great signs and wonders (miracles).  If God were still bringing us His message in this way today, how would we know when the sign or wonder is from Christ, or when it is from Satan?

2 Thessalonians 2:9,10 - Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The deception is that they tell us the signs and wonders (miracles) are from God.

Revelation 13:13,14 - And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

You see the deception occurs through the means of the miracles.  Satan wants us to believe that God is still bringing great signs and wonders so we will focus on the miracle and stop looking to Him.  Satan is very cunning and sly, he has to be.  Satan comes disguised as Christ by the miracles he performs and the lying message he brings, which sounds real close to the truth.  It is because God allows Satan to perform the super natural that we can be certain that Christ is not revealing Himself to us in this manner anymore.  The need for signs and wonders (true miracles of Christ) ended with the last apostle, and the completion of the Bible.  

Doug Johnson

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2003, 04:41:36 PM »
Quote
It is because God allows Satan to perform the super natural that we can be certain that Christ is not revealing Himself to us in this manner anymore.  The need for signs and wonders (true miracles of Christ) ended with the last apostle, and the completion of the Bible.  

Let me see if I understand you correctly Sandy. You think that every miracle is performed by Satan? That God doesn't perform even one miracle today? Aren't you putting God in a box which you have made?

Do you think the miracle of Fatima was of Satan? If so, why was it used for good? Satan is evil, would he do that to help people?

Sandy

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2003, 12:11:56 PM »
Doug,

You ask:  Do you think the miracle of Fatima was of Satan? If so, why was it used for good? Satan is evil, would he do that to help people?

Re-read the passages of Scripture I quoted for you.  If Satan comes as an angel of light, what do you think his works will produce?  Satan and his ministering spirits can only deceive by looking and sounding like Christ.  Yes, it appears that his lying signs and wonders help people.  But do they really?  What he does is to make people look for the miracle and take their focus away from Christ.  What might appear to be for good in some peoples eyes, is nothing more than a ploy from Satan to trap the unsuspecting, the unwary, the unlearned.  Our whole focus becomes signs and wonders.  This is apparent in so many churches and denominations today.  We hear about it in name it and claim it seminars.  We see it in these great healing crusades.  We're told that if we believe, if we have enough faith than all our desires can and do come true.

You ask:  You think that every miracle is performed by Satan? That God doesn't perform even one miracle today? Aren't you putting God in a box which you have made?

The only miracle that God is performing today is that of salvation.  God still saves all whom He chooses.  What some call miracles today is God providentally caring for His creation.  We need to look to the Scriptures to find what defines a true miracle of God.  When God and His apostles were still performing miracles prior to completion of the Bible, they were nothing like these so-called miracles we see today.  When was the last time a physical dead corspe was raised to life?  When was a truly withered arm restored?  When was the last time you saw someone, anyone walk on water?  Has anyone ever turned water into wine?  These define true miracles.  Yet we see nothing like this occuring since the Bible has been completed, and since the last of the apostles.  No, what we see today is a mimmicking by Satan and his false disciples.  Of course they look and sound convincing, what good would they be if they didn't?

So, will we fall victim to the deception from Satan?  Will we give credibility to Satan and his false ministers of righteousness?  Or will we find our faith through His Written Word ALONE?    

   

judykanova

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2003, 03:11:47 PM »
Great post Sandybisbee, and Amen!

Quote
What he does is to make people look for the miracle and take their focus away from Christ.  What might appear to be for good in some peoples eyes, is nothing more than a ploy from Satan to trap the unsuspecting, the unwary, the unlearned.  Our whole focus becomes signs and wonders.  This is apparent in so many churches and denominations today.

That's it in a nutshell.   People in the church are indulging in idolotry by worshiping some creature or thing, rather than the Creator... taking their eyes off Christ.  This is the perfect diabolical ploy that men fall prey to when they fail to realize our treasures should be laid up in heaven, and not in this strange land in which we are but pilgrims.... passing through in route to an eternal kingdom with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


1 Peter 2:11

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;


Heb 11:13-16

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Matt 6:20-21

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


Isa 40:26-41:1

26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.


judy

'For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.'   Ps 119:89

Pearson

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2003, 06:50:40 PM »
Let me see if I understand you correctly Sandy. You think that every miracle is performed by Satan? That God doesn't perform even one miracle today? Aren't you putting God in a box which you have made?

Do you think the miracle of Fatima was of Satan? If so, why was it used for good? Satan is evil, would he do that to help people?

Who says the episode (because it wasn't a miracle) at fatima was used for good? Satan is the master at false miracles and false gospels. The Roman Catholic Church is not the ground of the true gospel, and so obviously it is not the purveyor of God's wonderous works.

 1 Corinthians 3:11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

 God is not put in a box by his completion of the revelation, what is happening is that people are trying to go outside the bible for revelation. That's the real problem. An evil and adulterous generation.

 Mark 8:12 "And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation."



Shirley

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2003, 06:24:16 AM »
What does all this say for Charismatic Christians and Pentecostal Christians, and Christians like Pat Robinson and Oral Roberts? Are these Christians preaching a false gospel? If so, that would mean millions in the Church are deceived. Do you actually believe that to be the case? Isn't that making you elitist, where only your small group is saved?




Christ_Alone

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2003, 06:53:04 AM »
What does all this say for Charismatic Christians and Pentecostal Christians, and Christians like Pat Robinson and Oral Roberts?

If the Scriptures fit - and in the vast majority of the cases, they do, then it says what it says.  Just because we might not be comfortable with what it says, doesn't make it any less true.

Quote
Are these Christians preaching a false gospel? If so, that would mean millions in the Church are deceived. Do you actually believe that to be the case?


Countless numbers of professing "Christians" are in fact deceived, and preaching a false gospel, yes

Quote
Isn't that making you elitist, where only your small group is saved?

You could look at it that way, or you could ask yourself "what does the Bible say about this?".  Those who sound the alarm about false teachings, are not doing so because they want to draw attention to themselves, and puff themselves up because they're saved and others are not - they're doing this because it's important to proclaim the truth, that others might hear it, and run from the false teachings.




Quote
In His love... CA

Drew

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2003, 07:04:48 AM »
If the Scriptures fit - and in the vast majority of the cases, they do, then it says what it says.  Just because we might not be comfortable with what it says, doesn't make it any less true.

Christ alone
Are you comfortable with the Apostles doing miracles, and yet you do no miracles? Doesn't scripture say that they shall law hands on the sick and they shall recover?

Paul

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2003, 09:11:06 AM »
just a couple of thoughts.isn't it God who does the miracles not us.and is it not only through faith that we may carry out Gods miracles and do we have the faith today that the apostles had before us.for are we choked by the cares riches and pleasures of this life and bring no fruit to perfection,luke 8v14
(Gen 4:7)  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

(Pro 3:5)  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Robert Powell

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Re: Do Miracles Still Happen Today or Have Miracles Ceased?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2003, 11:31:39 AM »
just a couple of thoughts.isn't it God who does the miracles not us.and is it not only through faith that we may carry out Gods miracles and do we have the faith today that the apostles had before us.for are we choked by the cares riches and pleasures of this life and bring no fruit to perfection,luke 8v14

The only miracle of faith we carry out is the miracle of salvation brought by the gospel in the faith of Christ. The miracle of salvation is the greater works we shall do in Christ's name.

 John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
 12  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 


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