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Author Topic: Mount Zion  (Read 1454 times)

nz-cricket

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Mount Zion
« on: May 23, 2005, 09:24:30 PM »
Hi

Anybody care to discuss the use of Zion and Mount Zion in both the OT and NT? Would it be justified to state that even in the OT the concept transcedes the literal meaning and points to a better more perfect place for the people of God?

Look forward to hear your feedback on this.

Jim

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2005, 09:44:26 PM »

Anybody care to discuss the use of Zion and Mount Zion in both the OT and NT?


Jim,

I'd like to hear what you have to say...back it up with Scripture and it's sure to be a beautiful thing...I've never looked into this...thanks.

Regards,
Jim

nz-cricket

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2005, 06:36:42 AM »
Hi Jim

Zion first is mentioned in 2 Sam 5:7 where it both appears to point to the hill / stronghold and the city of Jerusalem on that hill. Also is it made equal to the "city of David"
What begins to make this place so significant is that immediately (in 2 Samuel 6:12) David brings the ark of the covenant into to this stronghold of Zion. The ark of the covenant was the sacred seat of the holy of holies where God met His people in the tabernacle. So Zion becomes the center of worship and of God's presence.
Most of the time (in its 150+ uses in the Old Testament) "Zion" refers to the city of Jerusalem, not just as another name, but because it is the city of God's presence and the city of great hope for God's people.
Psalm 51:18, "Do good to Zion in Thy good pleasure; rebuild the walls of Jerusalem." (Zion is Jerusalem.)
Psalm 9:11, "Sing praises to the Lord, who dwells in Zion! Tell among the peoples His deeds." (So Zion is the place on earth where God has chosen to makes His presence especially known. Psalm 78:67f)
Psalm 74:2, "Remember mount Zion, where Thou hast dwelt." (It is called a mount because David's stronghold and then the temple were on mountains or hills in Jerusalem.)
So Zion meant the place where God was present and near to His people. But that's not all. It follows that the Zion became the place from which the people expected help. Zion became the source of deliverance and salvation. For example,
Psalm 20:2, "May the Lord send you help from the sanctuary, and give you support from Zion!"
Psalm 3:4, "I cry aloud to the Lord, and He answers me from His holy hill" that is, Mount Zion.
So Zion was the place of God's special presence among His people and it was the place where they could get help and deliverance.
But because sin became rampant among the people and because divine judgment was inevitable, even on Zion (Lamentations 2:15), it became more and more obvious, especially to the prophets that Zion, the city of David, the earthly Jerusalem was not the ideal city. They began to see more clearly that this Zion pointed forward to a future Zion and upward to a heavenly Zion. Or to put it another way, if imperfect Zion is the place of God's presence on the earth, then there must be a perfect Zion where God dwells in heaven (cf. Acts 7:48f). And if imperfect Zion is the place of God's presence on the earth now, then all the promises of complete and perfect reign on the earth must mean that there will some day be a new and ideal Zion on the earth where God rules over all the nations. In other words the old Jerusalem points upward to a heavenly Zion, and forward to a future Zion.

There are a few texts which appear a bit hard to explain
like Isaiah 24:23ff Micah 4, Isaiah 2:2f
Other texts like Psa 87 and Hebr 12:22 are very hopeful for us which appear to point to a heavenly or a future "new earth" Jerusalem

Shalom

Jim

Bradley

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2005, 02:31:19 PM »
Hebrews 12:22
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

Hebrews 12:28-29
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God [is] a consuming fire.

Mount Sion is the kindgom of God.  The church of the firstborn, which all believers enter into when they are regenerated by the power of God's Holy Spirit.

Psalms 87:5-6
5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
6 The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, [that] this [man] was born there. Selah.

Revelation 1:5-6
5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

We must be born again spiritually to "see" the kingdom.  Only then are we kings and priests unto God the Father.  This is the same thing described in the verses of Isaiah and Micah:

Micah 4:1-8
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make [them] afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken [it].
5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
6 In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted;
7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

These verses are speaking of the same kingdom Jesus preached about.  It is the Kingdom of God.  Many nations shall flow unto it and those people will no longer war against God, but they will now have peace with God, and their instruments of warfare will be transformed into instruments of planting and harvesting as the kingdom is cultivated and grown.

Luke 1:31-33
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Isaiah 2:2-4
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Hebrews 8:10
10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 

1 John 2:27-29
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Bradley







Melanie

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 04:10:50 AM »
Hi

Anybody care to discuss the use of Zion and Mount Zion in both the OT and NT? Would it be justified to state that even in the OT the concept transcedes the literal meaning and points to a better more perfect place for the people of God?

Look forward to hear your feedback on this.

Jim


I believe that like "everything" in Scripture it transcends the literal meaning and always pointed to the spiritual truth of the kingdom of God. New or Old testament, it always pointed to God's spiritual kingdom. Mountain means kingdom. Just as Tony Warren's website is called the Mountain Retreat, pointing to the spiritual kingdom of God where his people reside.

Hebrews 12:22-23
"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect."


Mount Zion is the kingdom that cannot be moved, the spiritual kingdom of God's people. It is the kingdom that is represented by the church.

George

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 03:33:37 PM »
Except that Mount Zion is not a city, it is a mountain. So the spiritual theory does not match the literal history of the mountain of Zion.

Erik Diamond

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 04:24:33 PM »
Quote
Except that Mount Zion is not a city, it is a mountain.


Of course it is a mountain. But it is mountain as God defined it.  What you fail to understand is the mountains in Scripture are often interpreted as Spiritual Kingdoms, thus the mountain of the Lord's House is a reference to Mount Zion and represents the Kingdom of God. 

Mount Zion = Kingdom of God
City of the Living God = Kingdom of God
Heavenly Jerusalem = Kingdom of God
New Jerusalem = Kingdom of God 

We, Elects, are a body of Christ, therefore, we are the Kingdom of God, the Holy City. 


Rev 21:2-3
[2]  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
[3]  And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


Rev 21:9-10
[9]  And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
[10]  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Holy Jerusalem is not a literal city coming down from heaven, but rather the body of believers as a bride of Christ.

This is HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, which is Mount Zion and a city of the living God.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

George

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 05:07:58 PM »

Holy Jerusalem is not a literal city coming down from heaven, but rather the body of believers as a bride of Christ.

I think it is a literal city that we will dwell in forever.

George

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2017, 05:12:07 PM »
I believe that like "everything" in Scripture it transcends the literal meaning and always pointed to the spiritual truth of the kingdom of God.

Everything?


Puritan Heart

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2017, 02:39:45 AM »

Holy Jerusalem is not a literal city coming down from heaven, but rather the body of believers as a bride of Christ.

I think it is a literal city that we will dwell in forever.

Hello George,
To say that you *think* is good.  Unfortunately, not much thinking happening in the world in which we find ourselves, however, your thoughts are not sufficient on which to base your claim.

Please justify why you think as you do, supported with scripture.

Thanking you in advance,

Alexandra

Habakkuk 3: 17 - 19

Melanie

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 08:48:35 AM »
I believe that like "everything" in Scripture it transcends the literal meaning and always pointed to the spiritual truth of the kingdom of God.

Everything?

Yes, everything. From the six days of creation to the 7th day of rest to the crossing of Jordon and destruction of Sodom. Everything.

"Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt. Psalms 74:2"


What is that saying? It is saying Zion is His people, the congregation he purchased which is his dwelling place, his redeemed. The mountain pointed to the spiritual truth of the kingdom of God that is his people.

Tony Warren

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2017, 08:47:40 AM »
>>>
Except that Mount Zion is not a city, it is a mountain. So the spiritual theory does not match the literal history of the mountain of Zion.
<<<

Zion is a city, a mountain, a Kingdom, a principality and a people because it is defined this way. There is no great enigma of why the use of Zion or why Mount Zion is in both the Old and New Testaments. The Testaments/Covenants prefiguure this Spiritual Kingdom, this city and people. The use of Zion is because it symbolizes our exalting or raising up as a mountain to signify God's kingdom and government. As Melanie already said, it thus represents the Kingdom of Heaven.

Romans 9:33
  • "As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

The word mountain representing Kingdom, and Zion representing its exalted position or "raising up" as Jerusalem, the holy city of peace. That's why the hill of Jerusalem on which the city of David was built is called Zion. God's people Jerusalem are the spiritual and holy city to which God has comforted and brought peace. Zion representing God's love for this Holy people of God, whom have been brought peace. Jerusalem, the city of peace.

Psalms 87:2-3
  • "The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
  • Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah."

This is not at all talking about a literal mountain. Zion is synonymous with, and represents the spiritual city that God loves, the heavenly (as opposed to earthly) Jerusalem. The earthly or physical Mount Zion in the Old Testament and situated in the middle east, merely pointed to this spiritual kingdom of heaven. The previous reference to Hebrews chapter 12 illuistrates this clearly.

Hebrews 12:22-23
  • "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
  • To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,"

Mount Sion here is the antitypical Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem, the Kingdom of Heaven of which the saints have "already" come, are already its citizens, and  already reign with Christ within.
 
"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

Stan Pat

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2017, 08:38:44 PM »
 :BibleRead: :word:

George

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2017, 07:49:59 AM »
Quote
Except that Mount Zion is not a city, it is a mountain.


Of course it is a mountain. But it is mountain as God defined it. 

And God defined it as a literal mountain in Israel where the Israelite or Hebrew people built a literal city. Not Gentiles. Thank you.

Tony Warren

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Re: Mount Zion
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2017, 04:03:08 PM »
>>>
Of course it is a mountain. But it is mountain as God defined it. 

And God defined it as a literal mountain in Israel...
<<<

God has not just defined Mount Zion as a literal mountain in Israel, but as a people, and also spiritual in heaven. The physical mount represented the heavenly one, jusrt as the physical Jerusalem represented the true holy city in heaven.

Psalms 78:68
  • "But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved."

Hebrews 12:22
  • "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,"

You keep saying things that aren't true as if repeating them argumentum ad nauseam will give them merit or validation. As I said, 'proof by assertion' s no peroof at all.


Quote
>>>
...where the Israelite or Hebrew people built a literal city. Not Gentiles. Thank you.
<<<

So you're saying that the Israelites built "this" mount Sion, this city of the living God, this heavenly Jerusalem? They built this city in heaven (literally above the sky)? They built the heavenly Jerusalem?

"nosce te ipsum"
 
Peace,
Tony Warren
"I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the Lord; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah. -Psalms 32:5"

 


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